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Projected 2018 NFL draft order: Two top-five picks for the Browns?


TuscanyTile2

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16 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Of course the year the Jets HAVE TO draft a QB it's possible that the top 3 picks in the draft will be QB's.  It's unbelievable how timing / luck always seems to be working against this franchise. 

Agree but haven't we had more than enough opportunities to draft a franchise QB and we passed on them.  The franchise needs to hire football educated people instead of morons over and over again. 

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33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I completely disagree with this assessment and it's precisely the reason this team is where it is.  You don't mess around with the QB position.  You don't wait and hope the guy you like falls to you - you go and get him.  If the Jets really like Mayfield - go and get him...if they really like Jackson, go and get him.

You can NOT be passive with the QB position - not if you're the Jets.  If they're smart they go up as high as they can and give up whatever it takes.

So what if you have to give away to 2nd rounders - honestly.  If the QB hits you have 15 years to build a team around him - if he doesn't then it really doesn't matter who you draft in the second round because The Jets will have to start over again in 4 years. 

 

Keep throwing offers at the Colts till they take one. Draft Rosen or Darnold and profit.

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2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Keep throwing offers at the Colts till they take one. Draft Rosen or Darnold and profit.

I just don't see the Giants losing another game - and the Giants will NOT give up one of those two - no matter the offer.

I do agree though, if the Giants somehow pull off a victory - the team sitting in the two spot (that doesn't need a QB) is sitting in an amazing position.

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36 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I completely disagree with this assessment and it's precisely the reason this team is where it is.  You don't mess around with the QB position.  You don't wait and hope the guy you like falls to you - you go and get him.  If the Jets really like Mayfield - go and get him...if they really like Jackson, go and get him.

You can NOT be passive with the QB position - not if you're the Jets.  If they're smart they go up as high as they can and give up whatever it takes.

So what if you have to give away to 2nd rounders - honestly.  If the QB hits you have 15 years to build a team around him - if he doesn't then it really doesn't matter who you draft in the second round because The Jets will have to start over again in 4 years. 

 

Trading what, three #1 picks, to get a shot at a maybe?  Vs. stand pat and get a shot at a maybe.

Aggressive = Overpaying, higher expectations, fewer assets, lower flexibility and acting based on fear, not a plan. 

You do it because "the Jets can't wait!", as if the past 40 years events has any bearing on decisions we make today going forward.  I don't plan draft strategy based on how Ken O'Brian worked out (or not) in 1986, nor should we.  You make the best decisions today, for today.

I'm not trading three #1 picks to pick Darnold or Rosen, and I'm certainly not trading three #1 picks to get Mayfield when every scenario the pros lay out has him available to us at 8/9/10.

I'm keeping my three #1 picks, and picking three 1st round prospects to put around who I get at pick #9.

You will be putting around your Darnold/Rosen castoff FA Vets and late round plug-and-pray picks.  

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Trading what, three #1 picks, to get a shot at a maybe?  Vs. stand pat and get a shot at a maybe.

Aggressive = Overpaying, higher expectations, fewer assets, lower flexibility and acting based on fear, not a plan. 

You do it because "the Jets can't wait!", as if the past 40 years events has any bearing on decisions we make today going forward.  I don't plan draft strategy based on how Ken O'Brian worked out (or not) in 1986, nor should we.  You make the best decisions today, for today.

I'm not trading three #1 picks to pick Darnold or Rosen, and I'm certainly not trading three #1 picks to get Mayfield when every scenario the pros lay out has him available to us at 8/9/10.

I'm keeping my three #1 picks, and picking three 1st round prospects to put around who I get at pick #9.

You will be putting around your Darnold/Rosen castoff FA Vets and late round plug-and-pray picks.  

 

 

 

Not in our case with 80/90 million to support said QB with.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Trading what, three #1 picks, to get a shot at a maybe?  Vs. stand pat and get a shot at a maybe.

Aggressive = Overpaying, higher expectations, fewer assets, lower flexibility and acting based on fear, not a plan. 

You do it because "the Jets can't wait!", as if the past 40 years events has any bearing on decisions we make today going forward.  I don't plan draft strategy based on how Ken O'Brian worked out (or not) in 1986, nor should we.  You make the best decisions today, for today.

I'm not trading three #1 picks to pick Darnold or Rosen, and I'm certainly not trading three #1 picks to get Mayfield when every scenario the pros lay out has him available to us at 8/9/10.

I'm keeping my three #1 picks, and picking three 1st round prospects to put around who I get at pick #9.

You will be putting around your Darnold/Rosen castoff FA Vets and late round plug-and-pray picks.  

 

 

 

You're trading this year's 1, both 2's and next year's 1 - to go from 10 to 3 and you're taking Mayfield.  That's exactly what they need to do.  Use the $100mm to solidify the offensive line, draft a RB in the third a build a winner over the next decade.  

What exactly are you doing with those 3 number 1's without a QB?

Adams, Lee, Leo, Pryor, Richardson, Milliner, Mo, etc...What have all of those 1's gotten you without a QB?

You do WHATEVER it takes to get the best QB prospect you can -----

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

You're trading this year's 1, both 2's and next year's 1 - to go from 10 to 3 and you're taking Mayfield.

For a guy I all but guarantee you will be available at #10 regardless?  No.

Fear.  This is managing by fear.

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

 That's exactly what they need to do.  Use the $100mm to solidify the offensive line, draft a RB in the third a build a winner over the next decade.  

Where is this magical $100 million number coming from?  We're not going to have 100 million to spend next year.

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

What exactly are you doing with those 3 number 1's without a QB?

You presume we can't get any QB any other way, a claim unsupported by facts at this time.

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Adams, Lee, Leo, Pryor, Richardson, Milliner, Mo, etc...What have all of those 1's gotten you without a QB?

I'm not going to take responsibility for someone else's misguided picks.  In point of fact, I'd have picked Watson last year, and we would have our QB had I done so.

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

You do WHATEVER it takes to get the best QB prospect you can -----

Like RGIII, right?  Trading your future for a QB always works out.....right?

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The QB is not a lock - but if you're the GM of a football team - you have to have faith in your pics.  

If you look at 3 QB's (let's say , Mayfield, Rosen and Jackson) and you like them all equally - sure you sit back and wait...

But if there's one that stands out and you believe has the best potential to be your FQB - then you go get him.  Doing anything else is just shortsighted.

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Dude please, they are not turning anything around except taking two top five players and turning them into fourth round pick few years later.

They'll almost certainly take a QB with their #1 pick and maybe they'll trade down with their 2nd 1st rounder.

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

1. Cleveland will draft a QB (say, Darnold).

2. The Colts will not, but they will likely offer a trade.  The other top QB prospect goes here (say, Rosen).

3. The Giants will draft a QB, if one is available.  If top 2 are gone, they might hesitate (now that they might retain Manning).  Personally, I think they pass on a QB here, retain Manning, and keep developing their back pair of QB's.

4. San Fran will resign Garrapolo.  No QB here.

5. Cleveland will not draft two QB's in the top 5.  No QB here.

6. Chicago just drafted Trubisky.  No QB here.

7. Tampa has Winston.  No QB here.

8. Cincinnati is interesting, you would think no QB, but QB IS a possibility here.

9. The Jets.  We could be looking at every QB other than Darnold/Rosen here, or we could be looking at Darnold (Browns), Rosen (Colts pick), Allen (Cincy) all off the board.

I don't see a need to trade up tbqh.  Stand pat, save assets, pick the QB who is available at #9 (Mayfield) and use those two seconds to start rebuilding the O-line in front of him. 

This. I agree with this 100%. But I am not a huge fan of Mayfield as an NFL prospect. So I would want the Jets to go after Jackson or Allen (if Allen is not taken by Cincy...I don't think he will be). 

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Any team not taking a QB in those top 5 picks could easily trade down though.  I especially think Cleveland will trade down with their #5 pick.

Maybe, but not nec. With all the QB noise in this year's draft, people seem to be overlooking some of the other stellar prospects. This draft has some nasty D-linemen and Pass Rushers as well as guys like Minkah Fitz. and S.Barkley. Gonna be hard for the Colts to pass on a guy like Chubb if he is still on the board- or, lets say the Bears to pass on him, etc.  

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1 minute ago, PepPep said:

Maybe, but not nec. With all the QB noise in this year's draft, people seem to be overlooking some of the other stellar prospects. This draft has some nasty D-linemen and Pass Rushers as well as guys like Minkah Fitz. and S.Barkley. Gonna be hard for the Colts to pass on a guy like Chubb if he is still on the board- or, lets say the Bears to pass on him, etc.  

which is fine too, as long as the QB's fall there likely won't be a team looking to take a QB until maybe the Bengals or Broncos who unfortunately will be picking right in front of us.

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2 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Maybe, but not nec. With all the QB noise in this year's draft, people seem to be overlooking some of the other stellar prospects. This draft has some nasty D-linemen and Pass Rushers as well as guys like Minkah Fitz. and S.Barkley. Gonna be hard for the Colts to pass on a guy like Chubb if he is still on the board- or, lets say the Bears to pass on him, etc.  

the colts may look to take a qb but not in the first round. 

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2 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Maybe, but not nec. With all the QB noise in this year's draft, people seem to be overlooking some of the other stellar prospects. This draft has some nasty D-linemen and Pass Rushers as well as guys like Minkah Fitz. and S.Barkley. Gonna be hard for the Colts to pass on a guy like Chubb if he is still on the board- or, lets say the Bears to pass on him, etc.  

If there is a desired QB on the board and the Colts aren't going to take one, they would be crazy to not trade down.  They need a bigger rebuild than just one player.  If you can stock up on draft picks that's a great luxury to have.  You can continually trade back every year like the Pats did (for a number of years) while still adding talent with your own picks.  As for Saquon Barkley, RB is the dumbest position to spend a high draft pick on.  Alvin Kamara was a 2nd rounder.

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1 hour ago, Pennington said:

Bad luck had vey little to do with us not landing a top 2 pick. Maccagnan decided to sign McCown when all we had to do was play Petty and Hackenberg all season to lock up a 2 win season and top 2 pick. This front office and ownership made the conscious decision to chase 6 wins instead of doing everything necessary to land a franchise QB.

We knew going into the season that the 2018 draft had two potential franchise QBs but instead of doing everything to put the team in position to get one of the top 2 guys we chose to chase mediocrity. If we come out of the 2018 draft without one of Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield and lets face it the first two may be impossible to get the blame goes to Maccagnan and ownership for not seeing the bigger picture.

Agree on all points.  The bad luck I was referring to was that we entrusted Bowles and Mac to run the team. :cool:

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I feel like this Browns team is a lot like the 1-15 Jets team back in 96.  They actually do have some good young talent.  They've just had some of the worst QB play in the league.  Kizer has a knack for doing really stupid sh*t when it matters most. 

2 OT games and 5 games decided by 3 points despite having a QB w/ 59.4 QB rating.  They might have 5 wins if they stuck with Joshy this year. 

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16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Alvin Kamara was a 2nd rounder.

Alvin Mentian Kamara is an American football running back for the New Orleans Saints of the National Football League. He played college football for the University of Tennessee and was drafted by the Saints in the third round of the 2017 NFL Draft.

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2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Alvin Mentian Kamara is an American football running back for the New Orleans Saints of the National Football League. He played college football for the University of Tennessee and was drafted by the Saints in the third round of the 2017 NFL Draft.

3rd rounder then.  But RBs can be found wherever.

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I feel like this Browns team is a lot like the 1-15 Jets team back in 96.  They actually do have some good young talent.  They've just had some of the worst QB play in the league.  Kizer has a knack for doing really stupid sh*t when it matters most. 

2 OT games and 5 games decided by 3 points despite having a QB w/ 59.4 QB rating.  They might have 5 wins if they stuck with Joshy this year. 

They also now have Dorsey running things so there is a good chance that they have a very quick turnaround. 

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So we could possibly send Mo Wilk to Cleveland  along with our #9 pick for their #5 pick to move up to draft Baker Mayfield. 


It would cost our pick and Leonard Williams if we actually tried to include a player in the trade and probably at least one of our 2nds. Frankly if Mayfield is a franchise caliber QB then I’d make that trade in a heartbeat.

But as for Mo, he’s worthless.


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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Trading what, three #1 picks, to get a shot at a maybe?  Vs. stand pat and get a shot at a maybe.

Aggressive = Overpaying, higher expectations, fewer assets, lower flexibility and acting based on fear, not a plan. 

You do it because "the Jets can't wait!", as if the past 40 years events has any bearing on decisions we make today going forward.  I don't plan draft strategy based on how Ken O'Brian worked out (or not) in 1986, nor should we.  You make the best decisions today, for today.

I'm not trading three #1 picks to pick Darnold or Rosen, and I'm certainly not trading three #1 picks to get Mayfield when every scenario the pros lay out has him available to us at 8/9/10.

I'm keeping my three #1 picks, and picking three 1st round prospects to put around who I get at pick #9.

You will be putting around your Darnold/Rosen castoff FA Vets and late round plug-and-pray picks.  

 

 

 

Exactly, why can't anyone get this? We've already seen what MISSING on high picks has done to this team, we have holes everywhere except Safety. We're too damn average EVERYWHERE, so lets trade all of our draft assets, pick a young QB and David Carr him! ridiculous! We could really make hay with those 2 second rounders and high 3 if a QB drops to us. 

Every year I hear about can't miss players, lol. Aaron Rogers went at 24 overall. I actually think that Mayfield & Jackson will be there when we pick. Plus after pro days ect. a couple of guys will rise. Don't be surprised if Macc signs Teddy Bridgewater, drafts a LT at one, and a stud RB and a center with our 1st 3 picks. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. If Todd Bowles is retained, there is NO WAY IN HELL we are taking a rookie QB that high! Bowles retained = Bridgewater, Smith, Cousins, Keenum types.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The QB is not a lock - but if you're the GM of a football team - you have to have faith in your pics.  

Using that logic, if you're a GM, you believe in ALL your picks, i.e. you believe with three #1's you would pick three elite starter-quality players who will play for a decade barring injury.

You also would believe your QB pick, even if later, will still be the best pick.

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

But if there's one that stands out and you believe has the best potential to be your FQB - then you go get him.  Doing anything else is just shortsighted.

Shortsighted is trading all your assets away from one player.  Nothing is a shortsighted and single-minded as that.

Do not presume the available cap space will magic-wand away all the issues on this roster.  It won't.  Just ask Dan Snyder. 

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15 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Exactly, why can't anyone get this? We've already seen what MISSING on high picks has done to this team, we have holes everywhere except Safety. We're too damn average EVERYWHERE, so lets trade all of our draft assets, pick a young QB and David Carr him! ridiculous! We could really make hay with those 2 second rounders and high 3 if a QB drops to us. 

Every year I hear about can't miss players, lol. Aaron Rogers went at 24 overall. I actually think that Mayfield & Jackson will be there when we pick. Plus after pro days ect. a couple of guys will rise. Don't be surprised if Macc signs Teddy Bridgewater, drafts a LT at one, and a stud RB and a center with our 1st 3 picks. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. If Todd Bowles is retained, there is NO WAY IN HELL we are taking a rookie QB that high! Bowles retained = Bridgewater, Smith, Cousins, Keenum types.

I'm gonna bet NFL GMs have Allen rated higher than a lot of us believe. Here's how I see it playing out:

1 - Browns (1-15) - QB - Sam Darnold 

2 - Giants (3-13) - QB - Josh Rosen - flip them if you want either way these two are going top 2.

3 - Colts (4-12) - EDGE - Bradley Chubb - Indy considers trading back after deciding to stick with Luck and Brisset but decide to stay put and arguably get the best player in the country

4 - Browns via Huston (4-12) - **TRADE** - Buffalo - QB - Josh Allen - The Bills move up to select their QB of the future. After an impressive combine Allen shoots up draft boards. Bills give up 2018 1st, 2018 1st (from Chiefs), and 2019 1st.

5 - 49ers (4-12) - RB - Saquon Barkley - They give Jimmy G a new weapon

6 - Bears (4-12) - **TRADE** - Jets - QB - Baker Mayfield - The Jets know the Broncos are picking ahead of them and the Cardinals are trying to trade up so they make the jump up to get their guy. Mayfield fell to the 4th QB taken after having shaky measurables at the combine and questions about his game transitioning to the NFL. The Bears are more than happy to recoup some draft picks to slide back a few slots. Jets give up their 2018 1st and a 2019 1st. Cardinals make the same offer but the Jets picks will be higher.

7 - Bucs (4-12) - CB - Minkah Fitzpatrick - Brent Grimes is 34, they draft his replacement.

8 - Broncos (5-11) - LT - Mike McGlinchey - The Broncos are upset that a QB didn't fall to them. Elway doesn't strike me as the guy to trade up for a players like Baker Mayfield or Lamar Jackson. They take a LT to protect Lynch and give him one more year to see if he has what it takes.

9 - Jets (5-11) - **TRADE** - Bears - WR - Calvin Ridley - Great trade by the Bears, they acquire more picks and they still get the WR they had their eyes on.

10 - Bengals (6-10) - G - Quenton Nelson - The middle of their OL needs work, this is an easy pick

11 - Cardinals (6-10) - QB - Lamar Jackson - The Cardinals still get a QB, not as polished as the first 4 taken but the ceiling is sky high for Jackson. Jackson can sit behind Palmer for a year and work on his mechanics before taking over next year.

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6 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I'm gonna bet NFL GMs have Allen rated higher than a lot of us believe. Here's how I see it playing out:

1 - Browns (1-15) - QB - Sam Darnold 

2 - Giants (3-13) - QB - Josh Rosen - flip them if you want either way these two are going top 2.

3 - Colts (4-12) - EDGE - Bradley Chubb - Indy considers trading back after deciding to stick with Luck and Brisset but decide to stay put and arguably get the best player in the country

4 - Browns via Huston (4-12) - **TRADE** - Buffalo - QB - Josh Allen - The Bills move up to select their QB of the future. After an impressive combine Allen shoots up draft boards. Bills give up 2018 1st, 2018 1st (from Chiefs), and 2019 1st.

5 - 49ers (4-12) - RB - Saquon Barkley - They give Jimmy G a new weapon

6 - Bears (4-12) - **TRADE** - Jets - QB - Baker Mayfield - The Jets know the Broncos are picking ahead of them and the Cardinals are trying to trade up so they make the jump up to get their guy. Mayfield fell to the 4th QB taken after having shaky measurables at the combine and questions about his game transitioning to the NFL. The Bears are more than happy to recoup some draft picks to slide back a few slots. Jets give up their 2018 1st and a 2019 1st. Cardinals make the same offer but the Jets picks will be higher.

7 - Bucs (4-12) - CB - Minkah Fitzpatrick - Brent Grimes is 34, they draft his replacement.

8 - Broncos (5-11) - LT - Mike McGlinchey - The Broncos are upset that a QB didn't fall to them. Elway doesn't strike me as the guy to trade up for a players like Baker Mayfield or Lamar Jackson. They take a LT to protect Lynch and give him one more year to see if he has what it takes.

9 - Jets (5-11) - **TRADE** - Bears - WR - Calvin Ridley - Great trade by the Bears, they acquire more picks and they still get the WR they had their eyes on.

10 - Bengals (6-10) - G - Quenton Nelson - The middle of their OL needs work, this is an easy pick

11 - Cardinals (6-10) - QB - Lamar Jackson - The Cardinals still get a QB, not as polished as the first 4 taken but the ceiling is sky high for Jackson. Jackson can sit behind Palmer for a year and work on his mechanics before taking over next year.

Cool stuff here but I doubt Bills pass on Mayfield for Josh Allen if this were to happen

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23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Using that logic, if you're a GM, you believe in ALL your picks, i.e. you believe with three #1's you would pick three elite starter-quality players who will play for a decade barring injury.

You also would believe your QB pick, even if later, will still be the best pick.

Shortsighted is trading all your assets away from one player.  Nothing is a shortsighted and single-minded as that.

Do not presume the available cap space will magic-wand away all the issues on this roster.  It won't.  Just ask Dan Snyder. 

First off - you can have your 3 numbers ones for a decade and without a QB your team still stinks.

Shortsighted is continuing to undervalue the QB position.   Honestly, it's pretty much the only position that matters.

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

First off - you can have your 3 numbers ones with for a decade and without a QB your team still stinks.

Shortsighted is continuing to undervalue the QB position.   Honestly, it's pretty much the only position that matters.

The 49ers were 1-10 until they got a real QB.  Now with that exact same team they've won 3 in a row.  This league is all about the QB.

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15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

First off - you can have your 3 numbers ones for a decade and without a QB your team still stinks.

And you can spend your three #1's on a QB, who busts or is even just meh, and then you have no QB and no three #1 picks.

Quote

Shortsighted is continuing to undervalue the QB position.   Honestly, it's pretty much the only position that matters.

Be assured, even a casual reading of my posting history will show I do not undervalue the QB position.  I would have drafted Watson.  I will draft (if I was GM) Mayfield.  I strongly support the investment of a #1 pick in a QB this coming year.  Trying to paint this as "undervaluing the QB" is just silly.

But I won't trade my entire draft for a quarter decade based on speculation and fear.  Let me be clear, we are not going to get Rosen or Darnold.  If you hold any concerns over that, get over it, because it's not happening.  So we're looking at Allen (maybe), Mayfield, Jackson, Rudolph and whomever else is in the pool.  I believe Mayfield will be available at our pick, no trades required, and i think the risk is warranted.

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I believe Mayfield will available at #9.

And I think Mayfield will be a good #1 QB.

I like Mayfield. I hope that if he is drafted here he plays great. I just hope the plan is to not sit at 9 and hope a QB falls to us. Because if Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield are gone I don't think I could handle Josh Allen just because he is a Qb.

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43 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Cool stuff here but I doubt Bills pass on Mayfield for Josh Allen if this were to happen

Sean McDermott does not seem like the guy who would draft Baker Mayfield.  He is also too similar to Tyrod Taylor.  I can see the Bills taking an Allen or another of the QBs.

I do think that the mock above is quite brilliant and makes sense for all involved, but if the Bills take Mayfield instead, unless we love Allen I am feeling like the Jets get the short end of the stick.

Imagine if this team uses the 9th pick for a Guard?  Ridley is probably the better pick.

But if the Jets do not pick a QB in round 1, they will have to pick best available QB in Rd 2, and the cycle of doom will continue.  I almost think they are better off trading up into the first round (or down) and be at a place where it makes sense to pick one of the remaining QBs.

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