anybody but BAKER MAYFIELD

[19andOhWait]

Just now, RichardTodd27 said:

Someone needs to explain this to me too.

There must be some substantial differences between Allen and Hackenberg that I'm not aware of.

Can a "Josh Allen" fan please tell me why he won't be another Hackeberg? I need a reason to get excited for this guy.

when in shorts and a t-shirt and throwing against ghosts, he looks like the #1 pick

turn on any bit of tape and hes a stiff Brock Osweiler type who cant hit the broad side of a barn never better than a 56% completion in college and was not recruited by any d1 schools in hs 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, 19andOhWait said:

when in shorts and a t-shirt and throwing against ghosts, he looks like the #1 pick

turn on any bit of tape and hes a stiff Brock Osweiler type who cant hit the broad side of a barn never better than a 56% completion in college and was not recruited by any d1 schools in hs 

That last bit means nothing. But the first bit still doesnt differentiate himself from Hackenberg

[varjet]

49 minutes ago, peebag said:

No, they didn't tank as best they could.  They brought in a mediocre qb to maintain that status.

They had 2 QBs that they drafted on the roster.  They basically had the same situation as the Browns.  They should have played the QBs they had and brought in someone more like Brunell.  By bringing in McCown and running an offense only McCown could run, the Jets botched the tank.

If the Jets went with the players they drafted like they were supposed to, they would be drafting 1st or 2nd, would have their QB problems for the next 10 years solved, and likely have a new GM and HC.

This is not MacBowles' fault-they were doing their jobs.  The fan frustrations are the product of the Johnsons.

[varjet]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That last bit means nothing. But the first bit still doesnt differentiate himself from Hackenberg

Hackenberg may have been a Five Star recruit.

Kurt Warner was bagging groceries. 

You just don't know.  

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, peebag said:

Bryce Petty starting, Chris Hackenburg finishing.

Except no one thought that at the time.  Or nearly no one.  

A few folks thought starting Petty or Hack was the better move, nor for tanking reasons, but for "know what we got" reasons.

The "Oh, we should have started Petty to tank best" is (for the vast majority now saying it) a 100% hindsight claim.  They never said anything like it at the time. 

[#27TheDominator]

Regarding the OP, I don't see Mayfield as being the type of QB this GM would pick.  He is short.  This guy likes prototypical QBs.  Allen certainly seems more up his alley. 

Regarding the difference between Hackenberg and Allen, I am no expert, but I keep hearing that Allen has a cannon.  Hackenberg is a prototypical NFL pro-style QB.  While he is big and has a strong arm, I keep hearing about Allen have a monster arm.  I never read that stuff  about Hackenberg.  

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Regarding the OP, I don't see Mayfield as being the type of QB this GM would pick.  He is short.  This guy likes prototypical QBs.  Allen certainly seems more up his alley. 

Regarding the difference between Hackenberg and Allen, I am no expert, but I keep hearing that Allen has a cannon.  Hackenberg is a prototypical NFL pro-style QB.  While he is big and has a strong arm, I keep hearing about Allen have a monster arm.  I never read that stuff  about Hackenberg.  

 

allen is also a much better athlete.  hack looks very stiff, mechanical.  but i agree, i think the jets/mayfield rumors are just those.  

[UntouchableCrew]

Josh Allen is far more athletic and physically talented than Hackenberg. That's why he's a "top five pick" relative to Hackenberg. Cam Newton is a better physical comp for Allen than Hack.

Doesn't change much for me, I still think you avoid a 56% guy from the WAC who sucked against Power 5 teams at all costs. But his upside is practically limitless in theory.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

allen is also a much better athlete.  hack looks very stiff, mechanical.  but i agree, i think the jets/mayfield rumors are just those.  

I don't know anything about rumors.  Maybe he will pick Mayfield.  My point was more, if they pick Mayfield it will not be the same mistake as Petty and Hackenberg.  It will probably be a new mistake, but the guy's past does not indicate that is the direction we are heading.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't know anything about rumors.  Maybe he will pick Mayfield.  My point was more, if they pick Mayfield it will not be the same mistake as Petty and Hackenberg.  It will probably be a new mistake, but the guy's past does not indicate that is the direction we are heading.

The directional winds would indicate defense at 6.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't know anything about rumors.  Maybe he will pick Mayfield.  My point was more, if they pick Mayfield it will not be the same mistake as Petty and Hackenberg.  It will probably be a new mistake, but the guy's past does not indicate that is the direction we are heading.

i don't see mccagnan risking his job on mayfield.  i just don't.  but he's got to risk his job on someone now, b/c he's passed up numerous opportunities and he can't go back and get watson or mahomes.  and now it's draft #4 and all the BAP love he's tried to cultivate is wearing off.  

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Matt39 said:

The directional winds would indicate defense at 6.

Now are you just saying this because of the past or because you actually have new evidence?

[Bruce Harper]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Baker Mayfield will end up being the best pro.  

Other being a couple of inches shorter than people want -  he checks every other box.  Accurate, Strong Arm, Smart, Athletic, surveys the field/not locked on primary target and has a quick release.

 

And a proven record of performance on the field.  Tape and college success is king for me.  I could give a crap if Josh Allen can throw it 70 yards at the combine or runs 4.68.  If I was a GM, I would go to the Combine to make sure the guys that I liked weren't too big d-bags to play on my team.  I would do my best to ignore the drills unless there was a very specific issue I was interested in.  They often are extremely misleading and do not seem to translate to success on the field in most cases.

[Warfish]

May be moot.

Sirius talking heads were saying there is a possibility that Cleveland may draft Saquan Barkley #1, and Baker Mayfield #4.

I'd be hella jealous if they managed that haul.

[FidelioJet]

25 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The directional winds would indicate defense at 6.

If we get Cousins the pick will almost certainly be Minkah.  

[RichardTodd27]

49 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Except no one thought that at the time.  Or nearly no one.  

A few folks thought starting Petty or Hack was the better move, nor for tanking reasons, but for "know what we got" reasons.

The "Oh, we should have started Petty to tank best" is (for the vast majority now saying it) a 100% hindsight claim.  They never said anything like it at the time. 

I disagree. I think "tanking" and "know what we got" pretty much go hand in hand. Most people (like myself) wanted to start Petty/Hack becasue we thought it would be a win-win scenerio. If either of our young guys played well and took us out of "tank mode" with a few wins, all the better. Conversely, if Petty/Hack stunk really bad, we wouldn't be in draft no mans land with the #6 pick.

But to stick with McCown, expecially when all was lost, just didn't make any sense.

 

[JohnnyLV]

I have my own little theory about this years QB class. I think that there are so many really strong QBs that evaluators are going out of their way to find flaws where in most years they look for positives to elevate the 1 or 2 decent prospects.

I think 4-6 of these guys turn out to be franchise guys and this winds up being the best QB draft since 83. 

I also think the Jets do not wind up with one of the six.

 

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I have my own little theory about this years QB class. I think that there are so many really strong QBs that evaluators are going out of their way to find flaws where in most years they look for positives to elevate the 1 or 2 decent prospects.

I think 4-6 of these guys turn out to be franchise guys and this winds up being the best QB draft since 83. 

I also think the Jets do not wind up with one of the six.

 

 

if they don't get one it means either:

1) cousins

2) darnold/rosen/allen are off the board, mccags stayed at 6 and does not take mayfield

3) he thinks he knows more than everyone else again, drafts BAP defense and then takes a qb in the 2nd round who 'will compete' with bridgewater.

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

I disagree. I think "tanking" and "know what we got" pretty much go hand in hand.

Yeah, no.  That's not how people meant it at the time, on the contrary.

14 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

Most people (like myself) wanted to start Petty/Hack becasue we thought it would be a win-win scenerio. If either of our young guys played well and took us out of "tank mode" with a few wins, all the better.  Conversely, if Petty/Hack stunk really bad, we wouldn't be in draft no mans land with the #6 pick.

Note which part you wrote first.  Everyone who wanted it (myself included) wanted it first to see if our kids could play.  Not for tanking, which was the prize behind door #2 as a worst case.  Not a preferred case.

14 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

But to stick with McCown, expecially when all was lost, just didn't make any sense.

Problem is McCown exceeded early on.  A GM can only tank so hard in the NFL.  Fans have this fantasy that GM's can literally act like Charlie Donovan and Rachel Phelps from Major League   It just isn't the reality of things in the NFL no matter how much that meme is repeated.

McCown was the tank.  Sticking with Bowles was the tank.  They (and the other players) "screwed it up", but of course none of THEM were ever in on the tank in the first place, because players and coaches do not tank.  Ever.

This endless lamentation is just silly.  Boo hoo, we didn't tank right.  Dear lord, pro-tank/pro-loser folks need to get over it.    

[Dcronin]

4 hours ago, kmnj said:

he is the one QB I dont want the Jets to take and the one I feel like our Gm will end up taking. Our GM has proven to be one of the leagues worst judges on drafting QBs as well

He traded up to get Petty who he said had a very high ceiling-next up Hack simply a terrible QB that most fans knew would be terrible-he is in fact so bad the Jets wont even play him in meaningless games. Mayfield is going to be the next johnny football and hope to god the jets dont draft him. I would even rather they go defense again with the one over him as some how even though we draft defensive first every year we have one of the worst defensive units in the league

 

 

You're nuts. Watch. His. Tape. The only guy in the bunch who throws into tight windows, or to the exact place the defender isn't going - he throws his receivers open. His mobility, fire and arm are more than enough to move the chains to get wins.

He is no Johnny Football. A little attitude in NY is just fine.

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, prime21 said:

 

The one QB that was already being touted as the best prospect down the line and then goes out and has the best combine of all the QB's  yet still many at JN are opposed to drafting him.   

If we do not get Cousins, we should take any of the 4 QB's either available at 6 or through a trade up.

Our Draft board seems pretty easy to stack this year.  For a team that's desperate for a QB, doesn't have a true pass rusher and has no #1 RB this draft lines up pretty well.  It's the Top 4 QBs + RB Barkley + DE/LB Chubb.  That's it.  Those are the 6 guys worth the pick at #6 assuming the Jets don't land Cousins.  Let's not make it any harder than it is.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, jetstream23 said:

Our Draft board seems pretty easy to stack this year.  For a team that's desperate for a QB, doesn't have a true pass rusher and has no #1 RB this draft lines up pretty well.  It's the Top 4 QBs + RB Barkley + DE/LB Chubb.  That's it.  Those are the 6 guys worth the pick at #6 assuming the Jets don't land Cousins.  Let's not make it any harder than it is.

the problem is that if you pay a fortune for cousins, you need to build an offense around him and you taking your 10th defensive player in a row in the first round (9 years, sheldon/milliner in one year) is not how this team is going to get to the playoffs.  but that would be a bowlesly move, get a vet qb and throw crap around him while every premium pick is defense.

[jetstream23]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem is that if you pay a fortune for cousins, you need to build an offense around him and you taking your 10th defensive player in a row in the first round (9 years, sheldon/milliner in one year) is not how this team is going to get to the playoffs.  but that would be a bowlesly move, get a vet qb and throw crap around him while every premium pick is defense.

Getting Cousins this year helps the Jets in so many ways precisely because they have the #6 pick and two high 2nd rounders.  Not needing to use the #6 on a QB will let them get the 2nd or 3rd best player in the entire Draft who isn't a QB.  I agree, I would absolutely build around Cousins should they sign him by investing at least two of those first three picks on offense.  Signing Cousins could even allow the Jets to trade down from #6 with a team that wants a QB and then use a pick a little later on someone like Quenton Nelson, Calvin Ridley, McGilnchey, etc.  They could come back in Round 2 with a RB and a Center.  Talk about jump starting an offense!  How about Cousins, Nelson and Ronald Jones? 

[Dcat]

Just now, jetstream23 said:

Getting Cousins this year helps the Jets in so many ways precisely because they have the #6 pick and two high 2nd rounders.  I agree, I would absolutely build around Cousins should they sign him by investing at least two of those first three picks on offense.  Signing Cousins could even allow the Jets to trade down from #6 with a team that wants a QB and then use a pick a little later on someone like Quenton Nelson, Calvin Ridley, McGilnchey, etc.  They could come back in Round 2 with a RB and a Center.  Talk about jump starting an offense!  How about Cousins, Nelson and Ronald Jones? 

This is a horrible tease.  Wow.  Now I'm depressed.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Getting Cousins this year helps the Jets in so many ways precisely because they have the #6 pick and two high 2nd rounders.  Not needing to use the #6 on a QB will let them get the 2nd or 3rd best player in the entire Draft who isn't a QB.  I agree, I would absolutely build around Cousins should they sign him by investing at least two of those first three picks on offense.  Signing Cousins could even allow the Jets to trade down from #6 with a team that wants a QB and then use a pick a little later on someone like Quenton Nelson, Calvin Ridley, McGilnchey, etc.  They could come back in Round 2 with a RB and a Center.  Talk about jump starting an offense!  How about Cousins, Nelson and Ronald Jones? 

i think if they have cousins, trading down would be amazing.  they could still wind up with an elite offensive player and they could really use the extra picks.  

if they take a rb in the 2nd my gut says it would be chubb, a workhorse type who would be the power back they wanted forte to be.  

[Kleckineau]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Could you imagine Todd Bowles and Baker Mayfield in the same room trying to work together?  Me either.  SO LETS ******* DO IT! 

Could be good.

[Thai Jet]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Maybe I'm an optimist but outside of a few miserable people - I think we will.  This is it. It'll be really rough to go through another five years of not having a QB - we need whoever it is to hit.  

I think Allen is the only one that might bring out a lot of anger around here.  I'm not in love with Allen but if he's a Jet we can hope for the HUGE upside if he figures it out.  It will be exciting.

I'll be 100% behind whoever it is!

I DO love Allen but like you I will be 100 % behind whoever is our opening day QB. And yes it WILL be exciting. A lot is riding on this off season.

[FidelioJet]

14 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think if they have cousins, trading down would be amazing.  they could still wind up with an elite offensive player and they could really use the extra picks.  

if they take a rb in the 2nd my gut says it would be chubb, a workhorse type who would be the power back they wanted forte to be.  

Even if it's Buffalo or Miami?  

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

if they don't get one it means either:

1) cousins

2) darnold/rosen/allen are off the board, mccags stayed at 6 and does not take mayfield

3) he thinks he knows more than everyone else again, drafts BAP defense and then takes a qb in the 2nd round who 'will compete' with bridgewater.

I am thinking a variation of 3. And I actually expect them to take a safety again. On many boards Minkah will be BAP at our spot.

If I were the owner, I will hire additional outside scouting help, go and and trade for the #1 pick, and choose the QB we want. Spend the rest of the draft on offense, and hire in additional help to develop him. Zero chance the Jets do that, especially since Bowles and Mac would have never been hired by me in the first place and I would have fired them after this year.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, johnnysd said:

I am thinking a variation of 3. And I actually expect them to take a safety again. On many boards Minkah will be BAP at our spot.

 

THEY ARE NOT DRAFTING FITZPATRICK.

[UnitedWhofans]

Seriously where is this narrative coming from that they are drafting Minkah Fitzpatrick. He doesn't fit out roster. He does not fit Bowles' style of CB. We already have two safties and didn't play 3 last year so that 3 safety mumbo jumbo is a load of crap.

Negative is one thing, but be ******* realistic with evidence

[#27TheDominator]

26 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Seriously where is this narrative coming from that they are drafting Minkah Fitzpatrick. He doesn't fit out roster. He does not fit Bowles' style of CB. We already have two safties and didn't play 3 last year so that 3 safety mumbo jumbo is a load of crap.

Negative is one thing, but be ******* realistic with evidence

They played 3 safeties on more than 10% of the defensive snaps and that is with an UDFA/practice squad player with an eye injury and a guy got in a trade of future cuts the week before the season started. 

I don't know where you get this "Bowles style of CB" from either.  Can you please explain your vision of this player?  Previously, you said lanky.  Who are these lanky CBs?  The 2 fruitcakes they drafted last year?  Burris certainly isn't lanky. Neither is Tyrann Mathieu. 

[UnitedWhofans]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

They played 3 safeties on more than 10% of the defensive snaps and that is with an UDFA/practice squad player with an eye injury and a guy got in a trade of future cuts the week before the season started. 

I don't know where you get this "Bowles style of CB" from either.  Can you please explain your vision of this player?  Previously, you said lanky.  Who are these lanky CBs?  The 2 fruitcakes they drafted last year?  Burris certainly isn't lanky. Neither is Tyrann Mathieu. 

The guy they got from San Francisco who abruptly sh*t the bed. That is the type of corner that I have heard that Bowles likes. He was 6'1" 177 lbs.  Claiborne is 192 Lbs. which is 10 lbs lighter than Fitzpatrick.

Burris, as you mentioned, is 206 lbs, which is about the same than Fitzpatrick. And as you know, he really didn't play that much. Wonder why?

As to your first point, you just made my point for me. More than 10%? That's vital. If they werent willing to waste another pick on a third safety, why would they do it now?

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The guy they got from San Francisco who abruptly sh*t the bed. That is the type of corner that I have heard that Bowles likes. He was 6'1" 177 lbs.  Claiborne is 192 Lbs. which is 10 lbs lighter than Fitzpatrick.

Burris, as you mentioned, is 206 lbs, which is about the same than Fitzpatrick. And as you know, he really didn't play that much. Wonder why?

As to your first point, you just made my point for me. More than 10%? That's vital. If they werent willing to waste another pick on a third safety, why would they do it now?

You are actually touting their failure to drop their 3rd rounder on a safety as a sign that they don't want one?  You don't think 10-15% of snaps is significant? 

Cool analysis.  Rashard Robinson is their type, but they not Burris?  If that was the case, don't you think they would have drafted Robinson who was picked later in the same round?  When did Robinson sh*t the bed?  He only had about 20 snaps.  The guy that you claim isn't getting run because he isn't lanky enough played more than half the snaps down the stretch.  Wonder why?  I don't think it is because of his inspiring play.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

You are actually touting their failure to drop their 3rd rounder on a safety as a sign that they don't want one?  You don't think 10-15% of snaps is significant? 

Cool analysis.  Rashard Robinson is their type, but they not Burris?  If that was the case, don't you think they would have drafted Robinson who was picked later in the same round?  When did Robinson sh*t the bed?  He only had about 20 snaps.  The guy that you claim isn't getting run because he isn't lanky enough played more than half the snaps down the stretch.  Wonder why?  I don't think it is because of his inspiring play.

Not significant enough for them to spend a top 6 pick on one. Especially since he has been found to have short arms in the combine.

Rashard Robinson sh*t the bed off the field, not on it.

So Burris played more than half the snaps down the stretch when the games meant absolutely nothing ad evaluations were going on.  Hmmmmmmmm......