Bleacher Report picks Jamal Adams as teams breakout candidate.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, BigO said:

But they didn’t draft him to cover as a safety. They drafted him to change the culture of the perennial losing mentality of this franchise by bellowing trash with his big trap. About the only thing he’s good at.

 

Real Jets fans: Jamal is an amazing box safety

Evil Trolls: Why would you draft a box safety at 6?

Real Jets fans: Actually, he’s versatile.

Evil Trolls: Really? Because he struggles in coverage.

Real Jets fans: What do you expect? He’s a box safety.

[dbatesman]

6 hours ago, Larz said:

What do you call it when you give Adams credit for having the most TFLs for a secondary player last year? 

He's not a box safety and you know it 

That's my point 

I'm sure you have seen the posts that he played nickel corner, outside corner and edge rusher last year 

What is so hard about seeing both sides of a player? 

A guy who leads all DBs in TFLs sounds exactly like a box safety to me. I'm aware he lined up at multiple spots, which is great. He also struggled in coverage, which is not so great. As for the last sentence, I could ask you the same thing. I suppose this is the part where I'm conscience-bound to prove I'm not a HATER by saying I think Adams is a genuinely good kid who loves football and works his ass off and legitimately wants to be here (which is more than we can say for a lot of the malcontents and mercenaries who've passed through here over the years), and that he is really good in the box, and that he'll play a decade-plus in the league. I also think that when you take a safety with the sixth overall pick--frankly, when you take any player with the sixth overall pick--that guy absolutely has to be a difference-maker in the passing game. Nothing would make me happier than to see Adams become that guy, and one thing we can count on is that he will give maximum effort toward becoming that guy. But the deficiencies I saw last year seemed to be deficiencies of athleticism, not technique; i.e., I think any improvements he makes from here on out will be marginal, not transformational. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

[Jetster]

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Real Jets fans: Jamal is an amazing box safety

Evil Trolls: Why would you draft a box safety at 6?

Real Jets fans: Actually, he’s versatile.

Evil Trolls: Really? Because he struggles in coverage.

Real Jets fans: What do you expect? He’s a box safety.

Had previous Jets GMs been able to draft just 1 good player for the secondary, Macc probably wouldn't have had to draft 2 safeties. 

Milliner & Pryor misses snowballed to where we are now. Marshon Lattimore was probably the right pick in hindsight, but I have no problem spending big on a good CB like Trumaine Johnson which equals out not drafting Lattimore.

Rational Jet fans aren't screaming that Adams is already some great player, we're saying he was a f*cking rookie learning the ropes, playing multiple positions. If we wasn't chirping so much, there would probably be only positive posts here about his potential. Unlike many bad draft picks, at least Jamal Adams can actually play pro football. 

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Had previous Jets GMs been able to draft just 1 good player for the secondary, Macc probably wouldn't have had to draft 2 safeties. 

 

[jamesr]

34 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Had previous Jets GMs been able to draft just 1 good player for the secondary, Macc probably wouldn't have had to draft 2 safeties. 

Milliner & Pryor misses snowballed to where we are now. Marshon Lattimore was probably the right pick in hindsight, but I have no problem spending big on a good CB like Trumaine Johnson which equals out not drafting Lattimore.

Rational Jet fans aren't screaming that Adams is already some great player, we're saying he was a f*cking rookie learning the ropes, playing multiple positions. If we wasn't chirping so much, there would probably be only positive posts here about his potential. Unlike many bad draft picks, at least Jamal Adams can actually play pro football. 

I recall at draft time there were concerns about Lattimore and injuries ... had we drafted him there'd have been lots of comparison to "delicate Dee" and how you don't draft an injury risk in the Top 10.

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I recall at draft time there were concerns about Lattimore and injuries ... had we drafted him there'd have been lots of comparison to "delicate Dee" and how you don't draft an injury risk in the Top 10.

That's very true, thanks for reminding me. These same posters slamming the drafting of a safety were probably slamming the idea of drafting Lattimore based on missing on Milliner (who also had injury concerns). It's always fun to go back B4 the draft & look at some of the things that were posted here.

[Philc1]

On 6/30/2018 at 12:25 PM, RESNewYork said:

What does that mean? Is there a point you're trying to make or is it simply Adams is a bust?

Am I saying Jamal Adams is a bust?  You are saying he’s a bust

[#27TheDominator]

On 6/29/2018 at 3:06 PM, RESNewYork said:

I consider safety a premium position in today's NFL. Rather have a great safety than great corner because safety is the more versatile position. 

The NFL free agent market disagrees. 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

The NFL free agent market disagrees. 

So does anyone with a brain

[jgb]

On 7/2/2018 at 3:47 AM, T0mShane said:

Real Jets fans: Jamal is an amazing box safety

Evil Trolls: Why would you draft a box safety at 6?

Real Jets fans: Actually, he’s versatile.

Evil Trolls: Really? Because he struggles in coverage.

Real Jets fans: What do you expect? He’s a box safety.

Where else are you gonna get safeties in this day and age???

[jgb]

11 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The NFL free agent market disagrees. 

 

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

So does anyone with a brain

But Bowles is on a personal mission to reinvigorate his old position. New rule: let's hire a former edge rusher as next HC.

[bla bla bla]

On 7/2/2018 at 11:20 AM, #27TheDominator said:

The NFL free agent market disagrees. 

I think that has more to do with the difficulty of playing CB than S. The NFL, for the most part, has shifted to a point where there are not too many overly dominant singular weapons because defenses can key in on one player to stop. The more ambiguity you can have as an offense the harder it is for the defense to read. This is why a lot of people actually like the idea of a bunch of #2 receivers. Similarly on the defensive side of the ball if you have a bunch of #2 corners then it gets trickier for a QB to know where the defense will roll extra help from play to play. Think the Revis or Asomugh effect where teams just go the opposite way. Yea it takes a player away from the offense but if that player is not a top weapon does it really matter that much?

I don’t think that makes CB less valuable but I think there is a valid discussion to be had.

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I think that has more to do with the difficulty of playing CB than S. The NFL, for the most part, has shifted to a point where there are not too many overly dominant singular weapons because defenses can key in on one player to stop. The more ambiguity you can have as an offense the harder it is for the defense to read. This is why a lot of people actually like the idea of a bunch of #2 receivers. Similarly on the defensive side of the ball if you have a bunch of #2 corners then it gets trickier for a QB to know where the defense will roll extra help from play to play. Think the Revis or Asomugh effect where teams just go the opposite way. Yea it takes a player away from the offense but if that player is not a top weapon does it really matter that much?

I don’t think that makes CB less valuable but I think there is a valid discussion to be had.

I think you're a fairly rational guy, but this makes zero sense.  

1. If CB is more difficult, then CB is by definition more important.  In fact, crappy or aging CBs often switch successfully to safety.  When was the last time that even a high level safety was able to play competent CB?  Maybe Assomugha played there in college and Honey Badger playing nickel, but that is not much sample size.

2. What are you talking about with this shut down CB being less valuable?  Shut down corners disappeared because they don't exist.  It is almost impossible to shut guys down under the current rules.  Even if they are shutting down a lesser option, it is insanely valuable.  In lower level football we would often put our best CB on a team's #2.  Then it is a simple matter to roll coverage to the other side or other options.  I understand you think that you covered that, but in 2009 Rex specifically rolled coverages to force teams to throw at Revis.  That is why his targets were so high compared to Assomugha who just played one side. 

3.  When starting level safeties are on the street in June and July, you can be sure that they are not as valuable as CBs.  Wilcox, Pryor and Vaccaro, Reid, Gilchrist on their couches during mini-camp.

[bla bla bla]

34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think you're a fairly rational guy, but this makes zero sense.  

1. If CB is more difficult, then CB is by definition more important.  In fact, crappy or aging CBs often switch successfully to safety.  When was the last time that even a high level safety was able to play competent CB?  Maybe Assomugha played there in college and Honey Badger playing nickel, but that is not much sample size.

2. What are you talking about with this shut down CB being less valuable?  Shut down corners disappeared because they don't exist.  It is almost impossible to shut guys down under the current rules.  Even if they are shutting down a lesser option, it is insanely valuable.  In lower level football we would often put our best CB on a team's #2.  Then it is a simple matter to roll coverage to the other side or other options.  I understand you think that you covered that, but in 2009 Rex specifically rolled coverages to force teams to throw at Revis.  That is why his targets were so high compared to Assomugha who just played one side. 

3.  When starting level safeties are on the street in June and July, you can be sure that they are not as valuable as CBs.  Wilcox, Pryor and Vaccaro, Reid, Gilchrist on their couches during mini-camp.

I’m not sure “harder to play” and “more important” are necessarily one in the same. Just my opinion but it feels like because of today’s rules and play styles the 1 lock down corner doesn’t make a defense the same way it used to. That’s not to say you don’t want one but I’d be fine with taking that $16M and spreading over 2 above average CBs. When I think of the NFL 10-15 years ago most teams had one go to wide receiver. I’m arguing more for versatility than anything else. Safeties being able cover RBs/TEs/WRs while having the ability to play LB and stuff the run or blitz is valuable. The same way you want a RB who can catch a pass and pound the rock or the way you want your QB to be mobile. IMO Safeties at $10-12M have more benefits than a lockdown CB at $16M, part of that being the $4M extra you can use on other players.

I’m by no means trying to argue that Safeties should be paid more than a CB. I’ll always love the lockdown corner especially one on a rookie deal but it doesn’t feel as important in today’s NFL.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

I’m not sure “harder to play” and “more important” are necessarily one in the same. Just my opinion but it feels like because of today’s rules and play styles the 1 lock down corner doesn’t make a defense the same way it used to. That’s not to say you don’t want one but I’d be fine with taking that $16M and spreading over 2 above average CBs. When I think of the NFL 10-15 years ago most teams had one go to wide receiver. I’m arguing more for versatility than anything else. Safeties being able cover RBs/TEs/WRs while having the ability to play LB and stuff the run or blitz is valuable. The same way you want a RB who can catch a pass and pound the rock or the way you want your QB to be mobile. IMO Safeties at $10-12M have more benefits than a lockdown CB at $16M, part of that being the $4M extra you can use on other players.

I’m by no means trying to argue that Safeties should be paid more than a CB. I’ll always love the lockdown corner especially one on a rookie deal but it doesn’t feel as important in today’s NFL.

Not sure how much we disagree, but...

IMO they are more important, but that isn't really relevant to the conversation.  Harder to find and more expensive means that is a place you should aim your assets.  Most of this discussion involves ragging on Maccagnan for his putting all of our 2017 draft eggs in the safety basket.  Even he seems to prioritize CB over S based on CBs being 3 of the top 6 salaries on the team.

[Patriot Killa]

On 7/1/2018 at 2:47 PM, T0mShane said:

Real Jets fans: Jamal is an amazing box safety

Evil Trolls: Why would you draft a box safety at 6?

Real Jets fans: Actually, he’s versatile.

Evil Trolls: Really? Because he struggles in coverage.

Real Jets fans: What do you expect? He’s a box safety.

Except his scouting report read that he had the ability to play both but he had to smooth that side of his game out but the ability to do so was there. He wasn’t a half bad in coverage in college...

He is versatile in the sense he played 5 different positions last year and his coverage game will come along.

 

 

Enjoy your 4th of July...you Evil troll

[dbatesman]

17 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Except his scouting report read that he had the ability to play both but he had to smooth that side of his game out but the ability to do so was there. He wasn’t a half bad in coverage in college...

He is versatile in the sense he played 5 different positions last year and his coverage game will come along.

Awful lot of words to say “he can’t cover.”

[Larz]

Big picture /good news 

QB isn't the problem anymore, and there's no ******* way it's going to snow anytime soon 

 

[Patriot Killa]

11 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Awful lot of words to say “he can’t cover.”

He can though lol.

[Larz]

You know what would help? 

The word "sometimes" 

Sometimes Adams gets burnt. 

Sometimes he tackles the ball carrier behind the line to gain, the line of scrimmage, gets a sack, forces a fumble or otherwise does his job. 

All better now 

[T0mShane]

Sometimes Jets fans go on month-long screaming fits because Victor Green didn’t make the Pro Bowl and they never sit down to think about why and that ignorance and fury stays with them for the rest of their days. 

[dbatesman]

Sometimes a safety goes a whole season without recording a single interception

[bla bla bla]

8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Not sure how much we disagree, but...

IMO they are more important, but that isn't really relevant to the conversation.  Harder to find and more expensive means that is a place you should aim your assets.  Most of this discussion involves ragging on Maccagnan for his putting all of our 2017 draft eggs in the safety basket.  Even he seems to prioritize CB over S based on CBs being 3 of the top 6 salaries on the team.

Practically everyone is on a rookie deal so it makes sense as to why the FAs would be paid the highest on the team. I think Mac paying CBs has more to do with what is available on the market/who is willing to sign with us and what we have on the roster. He seems like he wants to grow OL and CBs from late round picks while signing FA stopgaps. When you look at the CBs we’ve signed they are either a reclaimation project (Mo) or have ties to the team (Revis/Cro/Johnson) I think our money would be spent a little differently had we been able to attract top FAs like Cousins, Vernon, or Osemele. 

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Sometimes a safety goes a whole season without recording a single interception

Is this after they get drafted 6th overall?

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Sometimes Jets fans go on month-long screaming fits because Victor Green didn’t make the Pro Bowl and they never sit down to think about why and that ignorance and fury stays with them for the rest of their days. 

I watched Victor Green for years he was a way better player than Adams

 

[Bugg]

19 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I’m not sure “harder to play” and “more important” are necessarily one in the same. Just my opinion but it feels like because of today’s rules and play styles the 1 lock down corner doesn’t make a defense the same way it used to. That’s not to say you don’t want one but I’d be fine with taking that $16M and spreading over 2 above average CBs. When I think of the NFL 10-15 years ago most teams had one go to wide receiver. I’m arguing more for versatility than anything else. Safeties being able cover RBs/TEs/WRs while having the ability to play LB and stuff the run or blitz is valuable. The same way you want a RB who can catch a pass and pound the rock or the way you want your QB to be mobile. IMO Safeties at $10-12M have more benefits than a lockdown CB at $16M, part of that being the $4M extra you can use on other players.

I’m by no means trying to argue that Safeties should be paid more than a CB. I’ll always love the lockdown corner especially one on a rookie deal but it doesn’t feel as important in today’s NFL.

Went over your head that a shutdown corner under these rules as now enforced is as common as a unicorn.
 

Further, what makes a defense any good vs. the pass is cutting down the time a QB has by generating a pass rush. Even if you don't sack him, you rush him into poor decisions or force an incompletion. Because the longer a play goes on the more likely a receiver is going to get open no matter who your DBs are. This whole Bowles idea that DBs are so important is stupidity in the extreme(that and lining up Leo in the same spot every play, another day). Basically in so many ways Bowles is locked into ideas that were valid when he played but now do not really matter. 

[Skeptable]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I watched Victor Green for years he was a way better player than Adams

 

You obviously missed the first 2 years of his career where he was on the bench behind Brian Washington. I agree and I loved Victor Green when he learned the position better... but in the beginning he couldn't even beat out Washington who was terrible.

[Skeptable]

3 hours ago, Bugg said:

Went over your head that a shutdown corner under these rules as now enforced is as common as a unicorn.
 

Further, what makes a defense any good vs. the pass is cutting down the time a QB has by generating a pass rush. Even if you don't sack him, you rush him into poor decisions or force an incompletion. Because the longer a play goes on the more likely a receiver is going to get open no matter who your DBs are. This whole Bowles idea that DBs are so important is stupidity in the extreme(that and lining up Leo in the same spot every play, another day). Basically in so many ways Bowles is locked into ideas that were valid when he played but now do not really matter. 

Not true... look at the Jags or Eagles or the money Pats spent on their safeties. I think DB is still a very valuable position and has become a position that better teams are willing to pay more for. 

[BigO]

3 hours ago, Bugg said:

Went over your head that a shutdown corner under these rules as now enforced is as common as a unicorn.
 

Further, what makes a defense any good vs. the pass is cutting down the time a QB has by generating a pass rush. Even if you don't sack him, you rush him into poor decisions or force an incompletion. Because the longer a play goes on the more likely a receiver is going to get open no matter who your DBs are. This whole Bowles idea that DBs are so important is stupidity in the extreme(that and lining up Leo in the same spot every play, another day). Basically in so many ways Bowles is locked into ideas that were valid when he played but now do not really matter. 

A premier Pass rush scares the living poop out of qb’s. And they should be.  Giants beat the 18-0 Pats in the SB and dominated the line of scrimmage sacking, hurrying, confusing Brady. Any qb will pick a defense apart if he has time to survey the field. Leo has been pedestrian in his time here because he’s all ALONE on that line. Losing Snacks really watered down our defense. And Mo and Sheldumb followed suit with pathetic effort. Losing what once was our strength will have a huge detrimental effect on the overall defense’s ability to get its job done until it’s restored.  Mac has not helped this by drafting scrubs, (Adams, Lee, Smith etc) that make Idzik look good and spending boatloads on free agent signings that fail miserably. 

[BigO]

42 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You obviously missed the first 2 years of his career where he was on the bench behind Brian Washington. I agree and I loved Victor Green when he learned the position better... but in the beginning he couldn't even beat out Washington who was terrible.

Victor Green was NOT a 1st round top 10 pick in the draft. I get that Adams is a rookie and the argument is let him develop, look at his positives blah blah BUT you pissabies as one poster put it, refuse to look at his deficiencies in an objective manner. The guy couldn’t cover himself with an umbrella in a sun ☀️ shower ?. You can either cover or you can’t. Adams doesn’t have the athleticism Victori Green had. Nor will he magically acquire it. He’s below average on numerous skill levels that are expected of a safety - strong or free. Hopefully someone gets in here and upgrades this roster before Darnold is 30. 

[Patriot Killa]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I watched Victor Green for years he was a way better player than Adams

 

*watches Victor Green for his entire career*

*watched 16 games of Jamal Adams*

 

 

.....mind blown.

[BigO]

6 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

*watches Victor Green for his entire career*

*watched 16 games of Jamal Adams*

 

 

.....mind blown.

Adams 6 pick in draft. 6!!!! For a box safety that can’t cover and talks more crap than a traveling salesman.  

V. Green undrafted. Undrafted! Had a stellar career that Adams can only drool over and will never come close to matching. 

Adams and Lee will both be off this team by the time their contracts are up. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, BigO said:

Adams 6 pick in draft. 6!!!! For a box safety that can’t cover and talks more crap than a traveling salesman.  

V. Green undrafted. Undrafted! Had a stellar career that Adams can only drool over and will never come close to matching. 

Adams and Lee will both be off this team by the time their contracts are up. 

Cool but this has nothing to do with the post that you are responding to.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

You obviously missed the first 2 years of his career where he was on the bench behind Brian Washington. I agree and I loved Victor Green when he learned the position better... but in the beginning he couldn't even beat out Washington who was terrible.

If the theory is "Jamal Adams is awesome" claiming Brian Washington was terrible is not a valid premise.

[Skeptable]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If the theory is "Jamal Adams is awesome" claiming Brian Washington was terrible is not a valid premise.

Never said he is awesome... but I am also not saying he is terrible... My point was more if you revere Victor as a great safety ... he barely saw the field till his third year... Why can't people just calm down about drafting him #6 and see that he still can be a great safety... or he could bust... but 1 year wouldn't define a player