Okay... it has to be Josh Allen

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

What is more important, an edge rusher that might get a sack a game and a tackle or three a game?

Or a weapon or stud lineman than can help Sam Darnold score 4-5 TD's a game?

Edge rushers are overrated and overpaid.  Today's game is all about offense, and offense starts (and ends) with your O-line and your QB.

We have the QB.  We need the O-Line.  If we cannot justify it at #3, trade down (surely some OTHER sucker will buy into pass rush dreams) and get more picks for more Offensive prospects.

JMO.  Everything must be about building around Darnold and the Offense.  That is our only route to a Title.

If you trust MAcc's choice on Pass Rush, then maybe we should see how Williams and Shepard and Lee and etc. do under Williams before we got drafting yet more D-linemen.

We also have 100 million+ in cap space.  Sign one edge guy if we're so desperate for it (despite all the capital spent on it in the last decade).  Save the draft for our future all-pro Offense (hopefully).

A case can be made for both but I think the priority is as you stated it. Touchdowns, touchdowns, touchdowns, we need to use this draft to score touchdowns, touchdowns, touchdowns. We need to start drafting as if we have a franchise QB, we of course aren’t sure, but figure that out by building your line and stocking your offensive playmakers. 

Bears traded for a generational type edge in Mack this year and made the playoffs. That was with hands down best “game wrecker” in the league right now and it just got them so far. Jets are at least a couple few years from a legitimate run. Let’s build the offense around our man Sam and do what championship caliber teams do in this era... Score touchdowns, touchdowns , touchdowns ! 

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The ideal scenario to me is still that we trade down and draft WRs and OL with our first few picks

Gets it^^

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

I just had to.  sorry.  was trying to be funny.

twas not lost upon me, DCat...  I was like...  Of course...!

[derp]

4 minutes ago, Vader said:

100%. the line cratered every play. the starting centered was removed for a back up.

it’s good that Long played ok at OG and Harrison stabilized C, but the situation needs to be improved.

What will they do with Long for example? He was a big signing. Is he going to be the team’s starting Guard going forward or will they try him back at C. Big questions that will define the approach to OL. 

I think the plan becomes clear if you look at the contract situation on the offensive line plus the draft .

Long had no guarantees in his contract after last year. He's completely cuttable. No cap hit, his entire contract is savings. Did not play well at center. Is a zone guy. And Gase seemed to prefer bigger guards in Miami. I think he's gone. Take that $6.5M and put it towards a better center.

Winters can also be cut for nothing. I think he stays, but he's cuttable if Gase doesn't like the fit. Also $6.5M.

Winters is also the only guard under contract for next season right now. They need to go out and get a left guard in free agency. I am sure they well and I imagine it'll be a big ticket signing. This is why I think if there was foresight they would have cut Carpenter and signed a guard last offseason, but whatever. Maybe they weren't sure what scheme they'd be running.

The interior OL can and should be overhauled in FA this year. The only possibility would be going cheap at guard (seems dumb) or hanging onto Long through the draft and seeing if they can draft somebody (also seems dumb). Cut Long, get Matt Paradis and Mark Glowinski. Forget Bell and pass rushers - that should be the first order of business in FA.

Beachum and Shell are also under contract next year and only next year. Beachum is not great but is a serviceable left tackle on a relatively team friendly contract for the position. Shell is obviously getting paid peanuts as a fifth round pick on his rookie deal. Beachum can be cut for a cap savings of $8M. 

I think you hang onto those guys for now but go into FA with the intention of going after Trent Brown if he hits FA and Ja'Wuan James. Both AFC East guys, both solid, James has familiarity with Gase and it'll be interesting to see if he wants to play for him again. If you can get Brown I think you plug him in at LT and either cut Beachum or flip him to RT. If Beachum gets flipped to RT or you get James to play RT, I think you tinker with the idea of moving Shell to left guard. He's bigger and not particularly long - think he could potentially excel there. So maybe you kick the tires on the tackles before Glowinski but I think not long enough to let him get out of the building. And if you've got extra tackle depth in Shell for a season it's not the end of the world.

Draft wise obviously there's some questions about the tackle class at the top but there seems to be a lot of depth. If they don't sign a Brown and/or a James, I think the third round looks ripe to draft a tackle, spend the year developing him behind Beachum on the team friendly deal, and hope he's ready to start next year. Leaves the possibility the guy's more of a RT and replaces Shell and LT gets addressed next offseason. Or they draft two. Somebody like a Dillard, Cajuste, Howard, Evans is going to be there in the third, maybe even Hyatt later. It'll be interesting but I think that's the move with tackle. 

We'll see how FA plays out but I think the line overhaul starts there and most of the money gets spent early on that. To me that's the prudent decision - best for Darnold, and makes it easiest to not reach for need in the draft and target positions that are strong.

[Skeptable]

17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You guys are funny in thinking that if the Jets draft an edge rusher in the first, that they somehow would be ignoring the O-line.  Sure it would be nice if there was some stud no-brainer LT sitting there, but that might not be the situation.  Still decent depth at the position, and it’s likely that there will some good O-linemen available in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  

This is the truth

[Losmeister]

for me, I watched some tape breakdown of Allen, and the guy was gusinhing about him on plays where the QB got rid of the ball before he got there....  so I was all SHRUG, DGAF if he leans well and makes a swim move to gain an advantage on his blocker ( notice not BEAT his man) and gets there too late...

i cant say that that stuf I saw was wholly representative, but it sure gave me major pause.

[Augustiniak]

19 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You guys are funny in thinking that if the Jets draft an edge rusher in the first, that they somehow would be ignoring the O-line.  Sure it would be nice if there was some stud no-brainer LT sitting there, but that might not be the situation.  Still decent depth at the position, and it’s likely that there will some good O-linemen available in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  

the jets traded a #1 and 3 #2s to get darnold.  they hired a qb guy to be the HC.  the 4 remaining teams in the playoffs all have the most unstoppable offenses.  what part of this says the jets should wait until the early 3rd round to draft the 10th best OL?  the colts should be the model for how to build around darnold.  

[The Crusher]

40 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I remember the last quarterback from usc we drafted top 5

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

I’m still waiting for the next boar hunter. 

[sec101row23]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

the jets traded a #1 and 3 #2s to get darnold.  they hired a qb guy to be the HC.  the 4 remaining teams in the playoffs all have the most unstoppable offenses.  what part of this says the jets should wait until the early 3rd round to draft the 10th best OL?  the colts should be the model for how to build around darnold.  

You can’t draft what’s not there.  Like I said, IF there was some no-brainer stud LT sitting there you take him, but that guy may not exist this year.  The Colts had the best O-line prospect in a half decade sitting there at 6, the Jets are not that fortunate this year, that guy doesn’t appear to be available.  

[ChuckkieB]

24 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The ideal scenario to me is still that we trade down and draft WRs and OL with our first few picks

100%.  OL, WR, need to be the first two picks, someway, somehow.  Reach a little with pick #3 or trade down, accumulate picks, and attack those two positions on the first day of the draft.  

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You can’t draft what’s not there.  Like I said, IF there was some no-brainer stud LT sitting there you take him, but that guy may not exist this year.  The Colts had the best O-line prospect in a half decade sitting there at 6, the Jets are not that fortunate this year, that guy doesn’t appear to be available.  

i understand the qualifications.  my suspicion is that when all the predraft stuff is done, jonah will be a consensus top 10 pick.  and maybe another OL too.  with all these teams drafting defensive studs they also need guys to block them.  

mccagnan needs to rethink how he measures BPA.  athletic prowess can potentially skew how players are viewed.  giving good qbs a bit more time makes a huge difference.

[MDL_JET]

I'd rather reach for that OL but i can't see anyway how Mac puts aside his BPA theory and doesn't take one of these pass rushers that i'm sure will grade out higher. He's just dumb like that. 

[Joejet]

9 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

I remember the last d-lineman from Kentucky that we drafted in the top-4...

Good thing we didn’t use that logic last year; I remember the last qb we took from USC....

[nycdan]

16 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the jets traded a #1 and 3 #2s to get darnold.  they hired a qb guy to be the HC.  the 4 remaining teams in the playoffs all have the most unstoppable offenses.  what part of this says the jets should wait until the early 3rd round to draft the 10th best OL?  the colts should be the model for how to build around darnold.  

Just a note when praising the Colts' model - it took the Colts 6 years to figure that out.  They almost destroyed Luck before that.  

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I'd rather reach for that OL but i can't see anyway how Mac puts aside his BPA theory and doesn't take one of these pass rushers that i'm sure will grade out higher. He's just dumb like that. 

i think these grading systems skew towards the athletically gifted.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Just a note when praising the Colts' model - it took the Colts 6 years to figure that out.  They almost destroyed Luck before that.  

right.  but when they finally wised up they took nelson and smith in 2018 and won what, 9 of their last 10 games?  should the jets let darnold get killed for 6 years before doing this?

[slats]

9 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Jonah Williams is a technically refined offensive tackle who projects most favorably into a physical offensive front. Williams’ pass protection skills would be best utilized in quicker passing schemes to protect his lack of length from being exposed on deeper pass sets, but that’s no reason to dismiss his skills as an offensive tackle and move inside to guard. Should be a rookie starter at the NFL level and provide quality play on the outside by the end of his first year.

Great write-up that projects him to guard. The #3 overall pick really needs to be the BAP while taking in positional value as well. Too high for guards or safeties or tight ends who aren't complete game changers. If they have a pass rusher rated equally with a guard, they have to take the pass rusher. All due respect to the OL is everything crowd here, but a true edge rusher is this team's biggest, most expensive need right now. You can buy two very good OL for the contract that Dee Ford is gonna get. 

I hope the Jets hit the OL hard in free agency. 

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i understand the qualifications.  my suspicion is that when all the predraft stuff is done, jonah will be a consensus top 10 pick.  and maybe another OL too.  with all these teams drafting defensive studs they also need guys to block them.  

mccagnan needs to rethink how he measures BPA.  athletic prowess can potentially skew how players are viewed.  giving good qbs a bit more time makes a huge difference.

I agree, by April it might not even be Williams we are talking about for LT at 3.   Maccagnan has maintained he has been drafting BPA, but the reality is he was drafting safe by taking the consensus guy regardless of need or value.  If he continues drafting this way we are looking at a DT being drafted at 3 this year.  That’s something I just can’t get on board with.  

[Losmeister]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I hope the Jets hit the OL hard in free agency

DING DING DING

[kmnj]

our gm wont do it but this is what  would do.

sign bell

trade our second for a brown-he will be fine with the Jets

first round pick draft left tackle

second round pick draft a guard or center

this draft has to be about adding to the offense, giving sam tools to succeed and protecting him.

[kmnj]

this is an offense based league you need to score big to win

rams saints chiefs pats all can score big-all have holes on their D-

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, BigO said:

If anything happens to Sam, for lack of protecting him, this team is royally screwed.

We can definitely agree here. The defense can handle its own after being picked first for 9 years straight prior to Darnold breaking the trend. We can’t afford to see the kid hurt. You go up there to the podium and you go get the guy that has never missed a college game, is a pure technician with clean footwork. I don’t think his 1/2 shorter wingspan is going to matter that much. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I agree, by April it might not even be Williams we are talking about for LT at 3.   Maccagnan has maintained he has been drafting BPA, but the reality is he was drafting safe by taking the consensus guy regardless of need or value.  If he continues drafting this way we are looking at a DT being drafted at 3 this year.  That’s something I just can’t get on board with.  

i think mccagnan has definitely been influenced in the first round by broader consensus.  he's drafted guys from USC, ohio state, LSU and USC again.  guys who were all slotted to go higher than where they were drafted with the possible exception being lee.  

if he uses the same rubric this time around it will be allen or williams on defense.  key drivers that can impact this are 1) interest in other teams wanting to trade up, 2) impact of gase's desire for OL improvement, 3) ability to land quality OL in FA, and 4) how much these OL stay in the top 10 conversation so that mccagnan won't be criticized for reaching at 3 for one of them.  

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

We can definitely agree here. The defense can handle its own after being picked first for 9 years straight prior to Darnold breaking the trend. We can’t afford to see the kid hurt. You go up there to the podium and you go get the guy that has never missed a college game, is a pure technician with clean footwork. I don’t think his 1/2 shorter wingspan is going to matter that much. 

I tend to agree with you.  BUT there is a lot of questions surrounding Williams, I suspect as these pre draft showcases and combines play out you will see more reports like this...

http://www.draftanalyst.com/shrine-game-notes-monday

I never graded Alabama offensive lineman Jonah Williams as a top-10 selection and have said so publically. In fact, I project him at guard in the NFL rather than left tackle. Williams is superb fundamentally but lacks the athleticism, agility and footwork to stay at left tackle on Sundays. Since the national title game, I’ve spoken with at least a dozen insiders and scouts to see if I was off base, yet they all agreed with me. The earliest grade I’ve received on him is the mid-first round, while some project him as a second-round selection. Everyone I’ve spoken with projects Williams to guard at the next level.

 

[slats]

28 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the jets traded a #1 and 3 #2s to get darnold.  they hired a qb guy to be the HC.  the 4 remaining teams in the playoffs all have the most unstoppable offenses.  what part of this says the jets should wait until the early 3rd round to draft the 10th best OL?  the colts should be the model for how to build around darnold.  

When you have the high-powered offense that we all want the Jets to have, on the other side of the ball you need a defense that can get turnovers and get off the field on third downs. You need a defense that can defend the pass because if your offense is racking up points, your opponent is going to be throwing the ball. A lot. The Jets star defender is a glorified box safety. Not all that helpful defending the pass all day. They need a pass rusher, desperately. 

Spend in free agency on the OL, draft another in the third. If the BAP at #3 is an EDGE, you jump all over it because it's a huge team need at a high priority position. 

[Vader]

19 minutes ago, derp said:

I think the plan becomes clear if you look at the contract situation on the offensive line plus the draft .

Long had no guarantees in his contract after last year. He's completely cuttable. No cap hit, his entire contract is savings. Did not play well at center. Is a zone guy. And Gase seemed to prefer bigger guards in Miami. I think he's gone. Take that $6.5M and put it towards a better center.

Winters can also be cut for nothing. I think he stays, but he's cuttable if Gase doesn't like the fit. Also $6.5M.

Winters is also the only guard under contract for next season right now. They need to go out and get a left guard in free agency. I am sure they well and I imagine it'll be a big ticket signing. This is why I think if there was foresight they would have cut Carpenter and signed a guard last offseason, but whatever. Maybe they weren't sure what scheme they'd be running.

The interior OL can and should be overhauled in FA this year. The only possibility would be going cheap at guard (seems dumb) or hanging onto Long through the draft and seeing if they can draft somebody (also seems dumb). Cut Long, get Matt Paradis and Mark Glowinski. Forget Bell and pass rushers - that should be the first order of business in FA.

Beachum and Shell are also under contract next year and only next year. Beachum is not great but is a serviceable left tackle on a relatively team friendly contract for the position. Shell is obviously getting paid peanuts as a fifth round pick on his rookie deal. Beachum can be cut for a cap savings of $8M. 

I think you hang onto those guys for now but go into FA with the intention of going after Trent Brown if he hits FA and Ja'Wuan James. Both AFC East guys, both solid, James has familiarity with Gase and it'll be interesting to see if he wants to play for him again. If you can get Brown I think you plug him in at LT and either cut Beachum or flip him to RT. If Beachum gets flipped to RT or you get James to play RT, I think you tinker with the idea of moving Shell to left guard. He's bigger and not particularly long - think he could potentially excel there. So maybe you kick the tires on the tackles before Glowinski but I think not long enough to let him get out of the building. And if you've got extra tackle depth in Shell for a season it's not the end of the world.

Draft wise obviously there's some questions about the tackle class at the top but there seems to be a lot of depth. If they don't sign a Brown and/or a James, I think the third round looks ripe to draft a tackle, spend the year developing him behind Beachum on the team friendly deal, and hope he's ready to start next year. Leaves the possibility the guy's more of a RT and replaces Shell and LT gets addressed next offseason. Or they draft two. Somebody like a Dillard, Cajuste, Howard, Evans is going to be there in the third, maybe even Hyatt later. It'll be interesting but I think that's the move with tackle. 

We'll see how FA plays out but I think the line overhaul starts there and most of the money gets spent early on that. To me that's the prudent decision - best for Darnold, and makes it easiest to not reach for need in the draft and target positions that are strong.

this seems like an awful lot of work when you can just pencil in Beachum and Shell (still on rookie deal) at OT and draft or sign competition without breaking the bank. That way, you aren’t sacrificing any depth which is not to be under valued.

In terms of interior, I just looked up Long’s 4 year contract. You are right about dead money. However, he is due a 3 million guaranteed if he is on the roster 3 days after the Super Bowl…which means, if he isn’t cut between now and then, I can not imagine him not being on the team next year. Maybe Mac and Gase see his play at OG as silver lining? 

Carpenter is a shell and gone and Winters may be done here too bc of the injury and contract he singed before the injury.

The major component of OLs is communication+chemistry, and if you overhaul too much, regardless of individual skills you have no idea what you will get as a whole unit. it will be into the next season before they “gel”.

So i would think that they don’t go overhaul the entire unit but upgrade it more incrementally.

That would allow them to upgrade other team units besides the OL. Truth is, would have been a great question to ask Gase — his perspective on the OL.

[nycdan]

9 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I like the post and appreciate the conclusions but the one thing that bothered me was this.  The post claims that the Jet offensive line ranked in the middle of the pack in pass protection last season.  Question?  Who did this rating, and what the HELL were they watching?  The Jets pass protection was the worst in the league with the exception of the  Arizona Cardinals.  They were absolutely awful the entire season, save for parts of the last two games prior to the Patriot Slaughter.  While I am a proponent of trading down to bolster that line and the rest of the roster or taking a monster like Josh Allen or Bosa,  this glaring need has to be addressed for any significant improvement to be made and more importantly to save SAM DARNOLD'S LIFE.

You have it backwards.  Our OLine was bottom at helping the running game.  Here's Footballoutsiders take on it: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

For pass-protection, we were certainly below average but not bottom.  We gave up 37 sacks which was actually tied for 12th in the league.  Now some of the credit goes to Darnold for being a good scrambler and I don't see stats for hurries or pressures but FO has our line ranked 18 for pass-pro.  

I'm not saying any of this to argue against drafting an OL, because I absolutely agree it needs a complete overhaul, but we sucked so badly at getting short yards on the ground that I wonder if the middle of our line isn't the bigger problem.

[slats]

9 minutes ago, kmnj said:

our gm wont do it but this is what  would do.

sign bell

trade our second for a brown-he will be fine with the Jets

first round pick draft left tackle

second round pick draft a guard or center

this draft has to be about adding to the offense, giving sam tools to succeed and protecting him.

You have us trading one second round pick for Brown and using another on an interior OL when, in reality, the Jets have no second round picks. 

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think mccagnan has definitely been influenced in the first round by broader consensus.  he's drafted guys from USC, ohio state, LSU and USC again.  guys who were all slotted to go higher than where they were drafted with the possible exception being lee.  

if he uses the same rubric this time around it will be allen or williams on defense.  key drivers that can impact this are 1) interest in other teams wanting to trade up, 2) impact of gase's desire for OL improvement, 3) ability to land quality OL in FA, and 4) how much these OL stay in the top 10 conversation so that mccagnan won't be criticized for reaching at 3 for one of them.  

Exactly,  one of the few reasons Maccagnan supposedly hasn’t been fired is because his first round picks haven’t “busted”.  People put WAY too much emphasis on first round selections however, Maccagnan gets exposed when he isn’t drafting based on popular opinion and actually has to use his scouting prowess (or lack there of).   

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Exactly,  one of the few reasons Maccagnan supposedly hasn’t been fired is because his first round picks haven’t “busted”.  People put WAY too much emphasis on first round selections however, Maccagnan gets exposed when he isn’t drafting based on popular opinion and actually has to use his scouting prowess (or lack there of).   

first round picks and late round picks have been good.  it's the 2nd-4th that have been the worst with maye as an exception though his injuries are a concern.  but maye is a pretty good player i think, when healthy.  darron lee obviously has disappointed but i think he's been misused a lot and if he can stay clean he can hopefully be used better going forward.

[Beerfish]

If you are going to err, err on the side of the oline.  We just got the franchise Qb and we should not be in the position of 'oh we better build the oline starting now.'  Just a pathetic dereliction of duty by the GM.  He picks safeties at 6 and early 2nd round back to back and now we want to incrementally upgrade the oline?

Teams that 'try to get by' via fa and such get their QBs killed and the the light bulb goes on a 3 years later they in a panic build the oline.

I would honestly have no issue if the jets used their 1st 3 picks on the oline.

This is a draft where we have to do everything in our power to trade down, even if we do not get prime value to do so.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, BigO said:

If anything happens to Sam, for lack of protecting him, this team is royally screwed.

It would be criminially negligent if Mac doesn't use the high draft picks  to protect Darnold.  He simply cannot make the same mistake  two years in a row.  But I don't trust him one bit to do what is necessary.  He's a boob. 

[bitonti]

Mac should not use a top 3 pick on a guy who might play guard. Google Robert gallery

It would be criminially negligent if Mac doesn't use the high draft picks  to protect Darnold.  He simply cannot make the same mistake  two years in a row.  But I don't trust him one bit to do what is necessary.  He's a boob. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Mac should not use a top 3 pick on a guy who might play guard. Google Robert gallery

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

I remember gallery.  I also remember Mandarich, the supposed all-time OT that couldn't do anything at all in the NFL.  All picks come with risks, man, including DL, OL as much as any other position.

I'm not saying to burn a #3 on on one.  I'm hoping for a trade down to acquire more draft capital so that multiple needs (namely OL, Edge, and WR) can be adressed in the first 3 rounds

[Losmeister]

anyone here know is the date at which the FA season opens?

immediately post SuperBowl?