Gase’s Offense; Tannehill Held Him Back; NY Jets Film Review

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, win4ever said:

Tannehill is weird, because he has the talent.  If you are going on pure athletic ability, I think he's on par with Deshaun Watson.  He can do everything Watson does, but the problem is that he doesn't make the correct reads, and almost decides beforehand where the pass must go.  There were plenty of times where he had the options, and he just didn't see it or hesitated to the point the play didn't develop.  

This now becomes an egg or the chicken question.  Does Tannehill's lack of progression fall on Gase? Does Gase's lack of success fall on Tannehill?  I'm not bothered with 2017, because fat Cutler off the bench isn't going to win anywhere.  To me, without Tannehill progressing to read defenses at a good level, they couldn't overcome it.  There are guys that aren't good with reading defenses (Tribusky is one) that still do well because they match their personnel well.  In Chicago's case, they had Cohen, Robinson, Miller, and the ability to play with a lead.  The Fins got post Pats Amendola, Stills, Wilson (who promptly got hurt) Drake/Gore, and Parker.  It didn't quite match up.   

It'll be interesting to see how they develop, because Sam has some qualities that Tannehill lacked.  It's paramount they set him up with better weapons though.  

Athletically he is amazing but as a QB he was never impressive.  I thought he played the best football of his career in 2016 under Gase after the intial struggles over the first moth of that season.  He seemed to be running more or at least on the move more which took advantage of his greatest strength-his legs(and helped limit the sacks he would take sitting in the pocket waiting to make a decision).  the biggest criticism of him was his poor deep ball and that season he developed into a quality downfield thrower.

His #s weren't the best in 2016 but I felt he played his best football in 2016.  As far as progressing, he missed the final few weeks of 2016 and then all of 2017.  It's hard to come back and progress in 2018 after that so I don't blame Ryan or Gase for that.

Sam is much more gifted than Tannehill, if it doesn't happen w/ Gase and Sam Gase will be an OC the rest of his career.  I expect this to be a dynamic duo.  Let's retool this OL and get Sam more weapons and we'll be in great shape sooner than later.

[maury77]

@win4ever , that's an interesting point about Parker. I wonder if the Jets make a run at him in FA. If they don't, I think that tells you a lot about what Gase thinks of him. 

[#27TheDominator]

7 hours ago, win4ever said:

 

Tannehill suffers from an inability to read complex defenses.  If there is an open guy, he can hit him, and it'll look pretty.  But when he has to anticipate based on what the defense adjusts to post-snap, he holds onto the ball too long to see what develops and that limits him.  I actually have to say, it's a testament to his physical abilities that he's been decent in the NFL because I think he has the ability.  He just can't make that mental jump. 

 

Maybe he should play more Madden!

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Athletically he is amazing but as a QB he was never impressive.  I thought he played the best football of his career in 2016 under Gase after the intial struggles over the first moth of that season.  He seemed to be running more or at least on the move more which took advantage of his greatest strength-his legs(and helped limit the sacks he would take sitting in the pocket waiting to make a decision).  the biggest criticism of him was his poor deep ball and that season he developed into a quality downfield thrower.

His #s weren't the best in 2016 but I felt he played his best football in 2016.  As far as progressing, he missed the final few weeks of 2016 and then all of 2017.  It's hard to come back and progress in 2018 after that so I don't blame Ryan or Gase for that.

Sam is much more gifted than Tannehill, if it doesn't happen w/ Gase and Sam Gase will be an OC the rest of his career.  I expect this to be a dynamic duo.  Let's retool this OL and get Sam more weapons and we'll be in great shape sooner than later.

doesn't gase all come down to how well or healthy his qb plays or is?  as you say darnold is more gifted and if gase can get him open looks then the offense will do very well.  i think one thing missing for all of the miami videos is no indication of how long it took for a receiver to break open.  darnold will need be ready to get rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds.  what will that mean in terms of how the receivers play?

[CrazyCarl40]

9 hours ago, win4ever said:

Tannehill is weird, because he has the talent.  If you are going on pure athletic ability, I think he's on par with Deshaun Watson.  He can do everything Watson does, but the problem is that he doesn't make the correct reads, and almost decides beforehand where the pass must go.  There were plenty of times where he had the options, and he just didn't see it or hesitated to the point the play didn't develop.  

This now becomes an egg or the chicken question.  Does Tannehill's lack of progression fall on Gase? Does Gase's lack of success fall on Tannehill?  I'm not bothered with 2017, because fat Cutler off the bench isn't going to win anywhere.  To me, without Tannehill progressing to read defenses at a good level, they couldn't overcome it.  There are guys that aren't good with reading defenses (Tribusky is one) that still do well because they match their personnel well.  In Chicago's case, they had Cohen, Robinson, Miller, and the ability to play with a lead.  The Fins got post Pats Amendola, Stills, Wilson (who promptly got hurt) Drake/Gore, and Parker.  It didn't quite match up.   

It'll be interesting to see how they develop, because Sam has some qualities that Tannehill lacked.  It's paramount they set him up with better weapons though.  

 

It also stems from the offensive philosophy being limited by injuries.  

Tannehill has his strengths/weaknesses.  The backup (Moore) has his as well.  However, the problem is that you can't really mesh one strength with another.  For example, Moore has no real arm strength, but he's better at reading defenses.  So your gameplan has to go with more intermediate routes, where Tannehill can deal with more routes that run deep.  So the injury and change to game plans hurt because you can't go for the strengths of each guy separately, since there isn't time.  

Thanks

Thanks.  

It should, although maybe in a bit, I have some concerns about the receivers.  Parker not developing really bothers me, because I was very high on him, and he's shown flashes.  Some of the route combinations puzzled me, because they seemed like 3/4 individual routes, than a combination of routes.  For example, there would be a go route to the outside, and out route on the same side.  On the other side, it'd be a curl and out route combination, when the middle of the field would be wide open in such a situation.  

I don't think he had a choice in the matter.  The dead money hit if you dropped him would be massive once he was already extended.  

Heck, they can't really even cut him now without getting a $13 million hit in dead money, and they barely have cap space.  

The problem really is that team is heading for a rebuild and I don't think he wanted to stick around.  

That team might need a good RB, maybe 2 good receivers (assuming Parker and maybe Amendola are cut), and offensive line, resign/replace Wake, decide on Quinn, and possibly find a RT and they start out with $13 million in cap space.  

That's getting awfully close to tear down, especially if Tannehill is not the guy, and they need to find a QB.  I just don't think he wanted to stay for a rebuild because this was going to be another losing season, at which point he would have been fired anyway.  It probably (and this is my guess) went down as if he asked for an extension to outlast the rebuild, and got rejected.  

He couldn't, not with that contract.  

I heard some rumblings they were hard after Rosen last year, but didn't trade up.  I think it's hard because that contract can't be swallowed when they are up against the cap like that.  

Tannehill had all the physical tools, he just couldn't put it together on the mental aspect.  The injury history doesn't help for sure, but mostly it's the late conversion.  Someone like Darnold/Mayfield can sense guys being open, while Tannehill waits that extra second.  

I never heard about Mayfield, I heard about Rosen though, albeit they never did anything to trade up.  

Thanks.  

And their best receiver, Wilson, missed the second half of the season as well.  

While I think playoffs is way too premature now, next season really depends on the talent around Darnold.  If they can get another weapon at receiver and a good running back, while drafting OL, I think the offense can really take off. 

The team definitely needs to upgrade some positions, especially WR1, RB, and pretty much everywhere on the OL.  

Tannehill suffers from an inability to read complex defenses.  If there is an open guy, he can hit him, and it'll look pretty.  But when he has to anticipate based on what the defense adjusts to post-snap, he holds onto the ball too long to see what develops and that limits him.  I actually have to say, it's a testament to his physical abilities that he's been decent in the NFL because I think he has the ability.  He just can't make that mental jump. 

They also had to deal with a terrible OL too, albeit he faces the same issue here.

Thanks.

The rankings are bad for sure, but I think a good amount of the blame can also be attributed to Tannehill.  

Yeah the contract really killed any shot at a change, too much invested.  

 

It’s weird how Gase the personnel guy hamstrung Gase the coach with a QB and gave him an extension. Crazy!

[BCJet]

There is absolutely no chicken or egg with Ryan Tannenhill.  QB is a cerebral position, yes arm strength, height, hand size, etc do matter to an extent, but nothing is more important then the ability to see the field, avoid the rush (while still seeing the field) and throwing accurately BEFORE the WR is open, not once he is getting open.

Tannenhill is a lot like Sanchez, good arm, looks great in shorts, one of the best 50 QBs on the planet - but unfortunately the gap between number 50 and number 20 is enormous, and that gap is bridged by having a good understanding of the game.  Watching sanchez throw redone picks, instead of throwing it away was mind numbingly bad.  You have to understand, down, distance, score, time, etc.  And just being a good athlete who can throw in shorts doesn't mean you can make your team better by your play on sundays.

Darnodl is infinitely more talented then Tannenhill and its not close.

[win4ever]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:55 AM, nyjunc said:

Athletically he is amazing but as a QB he was never impressive.  I thought he played the best football of his career in 2016 under Gase after the intial struggles over the first moth of that season.  He seemed to be running more or at least on the move more which took advantage of his greatest strength-his legs(and helped limit the sacks he would take sitting in the pocket waiting to make a decision).  the biggest criticism of him was his poor deep ball and that season he developed into a quality downfield thrower.

His #s weren't the best in 2016 but I felt he played his best football in 2016.  As far as progressing, he missed the final few weeks of 2016 and then all of 2017.  It's hard to come back and progress in 2018 after that so I don't blame Ryan or Gase for that.

Sam is much more gifted than Tannehill, if it doesn't happen w/ Gase and Sam Gase will be an OC the rest of his career.  I expect this to be a dynamic duo.  Let's retool this OL and get Sam more weapons and we'll be in great shape sooner than later.

He was always tentative as a decision maker, and played to "not make a mistake" and I don't think it's ever really been corrected.  

It's one of the reasons why I'm not as worried about Sam's interceptions from this year, because some of that comes with risk, but you have to take those shots when you don't have studs creating separation on each throw.  

[win4ever]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:28 AM, maury77 said:

@win4ever , that's an interesting point about Parker. I wonder if the Jets make a run at him in FA. If they don't, I think that tells you a lot about what Gase thinks of him. 

Prior to the Gase hire, I wanted to bring in Parker.  I was very high on Parker when he came out in the draft, thought he has AJ Green lite potential, but it never materialized.  I'm not sure anymore, because something was up in Miami between Parker/Dolphins.  He seemed to either not get along with Gase or the teammates because he didn't stand out much at all.  

On Gase:  

He was the wide receivers coach for Denver:

2008:

Brandon Marshall had a 100 catch season

Jabbar Gaffeney had a major improvement after leaving the Pats

Eddie Royal was drafted

Brandon Lloyd was also picked up

2009:

 

Marshall was gone

Demarius Thomas was drafted

Royal became much better

Brandon Lloyd has 1400 yards

Gaffney had his best season

Eric Decker was drafted

So in those two seasons, they found a useful receiver in Gaffney, got a great year out of Lloyd, and drafted Royal, Thomas, Decker.  So he's shown the ability to develop the receiver position.  I'm just not sure why Parker didn't develop at all.  

[win4ever]

On 1/29/2019 at 8:48 AM, #27TheDominator said:

Maybe he should play more Madden!

On All Madden Level

[win4ever]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:45 AM, CrazyCarl40 said:

It’s weird how Gase the personnel guy hamstrung Gase the coach with a QB and gave him an extension. Crazy!

Tannehill was extended the year before Gase was hired. 

Tannehill signed his extension in 2015, while Gase was hired in 2016, so he didn't extend him.  

[win4ever]

On 1/29/2019 at 8:36 PM, BCJet said:

There is absolutely no chicken or egg with Ryan Tannenhill.  QB is a cerebral position, yes arm strength, height, hand size, etc do matter to an extent, but nothing is more important then the ability to see the field, avoid the rush (while still seeing the field) and throwing accurately BEFORE the WR is open, not once he is getting open.

Tannenhill is a lot like Sanchez, good arm, looks great in shorts, one of the best 50 QBs on the planet - but unfortunately the gap between number 50 and number 20 is enormous, and that gap is bridged by having a good understanding of the game.  Watching sanchez throw redone picks, instead of throwing it away was mind numbingly bad.  You have to understand, down, distance, score, time, etc.  And just being a good athlete who can throw in shorts doesn't mean you can make your team better by your play on sundays.

Darnodl is infinitely more talented then Tannenhill and its not close.

I agree, although I think Tannehill is a better QB than Sanchez.  

The issue with Sanchez was that he didn't have quite the good physical tools, but a lot of folks assumed the "pro style offense" at USC prepared him for the NFL better, when it really wasn't the case.  However, they both hesitate in throwing guys open and the indecisiveness cost them in the end.  

[choon328]

On 1/28/2019 at 10:34 AM, FidelioJet said:

Thanks for putting this together.  Very interesting stuff.  But....

Gase was not a good coach in Miami and his offenses were putrid - at the bottom of the league and got consistently worse each of this three years.

Maybe he can turn it around - I certainly hope he does.

But let's not try and sugar coat it.

You can say whatever you want about his offense in Miami but to be fair he went 13-11 with Tannehill as 10-14 without him as the QB. Without injuries to Tannehill his record in Miami would be much better and he would have never been let go and the offense would've been ranked higher. I expect Darnold to be much better than Tannehill so if he can have an above .500 record with him I'm confident he can be better with Darnold.

[Villain The Foe]

On 1/28/2019 at 2:16 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Gase loved Tannehill though.  Never wanted to look for or draft another qb.

So is it concerning that if this article is true, why didnt gase realize this?

Great question. And it goes back to this fallacy of how Gase is some QB whisperer who gets the most out of the QB's that he's coaching, when in reality it just seems like he's still living off of Peyton's incredible season. And when Tanny got hurt Gase turned to Cutler, which would have been the perfect opportunity to show how Tanny is holding him back...and that didnt workout at all.

It's hard for me to just accept that "Tanny held Gase back" when Gase had final say on the roster. It just sounds like more of an excuse to Gase's incompetency as a HC and it reminds me of the lies Bills fans used to tell themselves about Rex Ryan while at the same time us Jets fans were laughing at them because we knew from experience what was going to happen. 

On 1/28/2019 at 2:24 PM, nyjunc said:

Do we know that or was he just defending him through the media showing he had his QBs back?

 

We do know it. Gase was in charge of the 53 man roster, not the GM. So defending Tanny just to defend in the media doesnt hold up when Gase never attempted to actually move on from Tanny when he had full control of the roster. 

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Great question. And it goes back to this fallacy of how Gase is some QB whisperer who gets the most out of the QB's that he's coaching, when in reality it just seems like he's still living off of Peyton's incredible season. And when Tanny got hurt Gase turned to Cutler, which would have been the perfect opportunity to show how Tanny is holding him back...and that didnt workout at all.

It's hard for me to just accept that "Tanny held Gase back" when Gase had final say on the roster. It just sounds like more of an excuse to Gase's incompetency as a HC and it reminds me of the lies Bills fans used to tell themselves about Rex Ryan while at the same time us Jets fans were laughing at them because we knew from experience what was going to happen. 

We do know it. Gase was in charge of the 53 man roster, not the GM. So defending Tanny just to defend in the media doesnt hold up when Gase never attempted to actually move on from Tanny when he had full control of the roster. 

What opportunities did he have to get other QBs? Who did he pass up for tannehill?

[Philc1]

On 1/29/2019 at 11:45 AM, CrazyCarl40 said:

It’s weird how Gase the personnel guy hamstrung Gase the coach with a QB and gave him an extension. Crazy!

All Gase had to do was trade a 7th rd pick for Tom Brady

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

What opportunities did he have to get other QBs? Who did he pass up for tannehill?

Gase inherited Tannehill who Mikey T had just given a $100 million extension, made the playoffs with him 

 

Belichick was 5-14 with Drew Bledsoe until Mo Lewis did him the biggest favor ever

[peekskill68]

I know the focus of the thread is on Tannehill and his limitations with regards to Gase, but what stood out to me was comparing the Patriots in coverage to us.  On their plays everyone seemed to know their assignment and their defense looked coordinated.  On our plays receivers are wide open and players are scurrying all over the field in a mass clusterf--k.  We debate talent vs. coaching all the time on this board.  To me these side-by-side GIFs clearly show how poorly prepared and coached we were in pass defense.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

I know the focus of the thread is on Tannehill and his limitations with regards to Gase, but what stood out to me was comparing the Patriots in coverage to us.  On their plays everyone seemed to know their assignment and their defense looked coordinated.  On our plays receivers are wide open and players are scurrying all over the field in a mass clusterf--k.  We debate talent vs. coaching all the time on this board.  To me these side-by-side GIFs clearly show how poorly prepared and coached we were in pass defense.

Bowles was a disaster.  Simply replacing him and that dope Rodgers with Williams was a big upgrade

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

What opportunities did he have to get other QBs? Who did he pass up for tannehill?

Gase was in charge of 3 drafts. 

[Losmeister]

On 1/28/2019 at 5:16 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Gase loved Tannehill though.  Never wanted to look for or draft another qb

wher'd ya get this? they signed gase after they extended #15 u dont know WTFYTA

"On May 18, 2015, Tannehill signed a 6-year $96 million contract extension with the Dolphins through the 2020 season,"

 

 

[Dcat]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:16 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Gase loved Tannehill though.  Never wanted to look for or draft another qb.

So is it concerning that if this article is true, why didnt gase realize this?

This is simply untrue.  Factually incorrect.  Gase was saddled with Tannehill and the ridiculous amount of money and years given to him by Tannenbaum (pre-Gase) made it nearly impossible to cut him for cap reasons.  Not saying they would have cut him, but for you to conclude that "Gase loved Tanehill" is complete B.S.  You really have no idea what you are talking about here, but why would this post be any different?  

[Dcat]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:49 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

In 3 years he never tried to address the position.  Either through free agency or the draft.  He believed tannehill was the guy.

How could you completely ignore the contract Tannenbaum gave him and the absurd cap hit it would have caused for Gase to move away fromTannehill?  LOL @ your posting these nonsensical conclusions, ignoring most of the facts.  

[Dcat]

10 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Great question. And it goes back to this fallacy of how Gase is some QB whisperer who gets the most out of the QB's that he's coaching, when in reality it just seems like he's still living off of Peyton's incredible season. And when Tanny got hurt Gase turned to Cutler, which would have been the perfect opportunity to show how Tanny is holding him back...and that didnt workout at all.

It's hard for me to just accept that "Tanny held Gase back" when Gase had final say on the roster. It just sounds like more of an excuse to Gase's incompetency as a HC and it reminds me of the lies Bills fans used to tell themselves about Rex Ryan while at the same time us Jets fans were laughing at them because we knew from experience what was going to happen. 

We do know it. Gase was in charge of the 53 man roster, not the GM. So defending Tanny just to defend in the media doesnt hold up when Gase never attempted to actually move on from Tanny when he had full control of the roster. 

Love how you completely ignore the Tannehill contract that Tanny created the year before Gase was hired.  Very easy to make absurd conclusions when you ignorte the facts.  Tannehill could not be cut, traded or even benched with that contract given to him by Tanny in 2015.  Gase had nothing to do with that.   He wasn't a Dolphin yet.

Cap consequences of cutting or trading Tannehill:

2016: $22,040,000 dead money

2017: $24,875,000 dead money

2018: $22,100,000 dead money

2019 (now): $13,423,000 dead money

2020: $5,562,000 dead money.

[Green DNA]

Lots of excuses being made for Gase in this thread.  As Parcells said, you are what your record says you are.  Right now, Gase is a losing football coach, no excuses!  I hope he becomes a HOF coach, but he needs to show improvement quickly, especially now that he has a potential franchise QB.  

[#27TheDominator]

Bill Parcells is fat.

[UntouchableCrew]

"Gase always stood by Tannehill" is the stupidest argument ever.

The year before Gase got there Mike Tannenbaum gave him a 4 year 77 million dollar extension with 45 million guaranteed.

You know what that means? It means Tannehill was the QB of the Miami Dolphins for the foreseeable future. What exactly is Gase supposed to say or do about that?

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The year before Gase got there Mike Tannenbaum gave him a 4 year 77 million dollar extension with 45 million guaranteed.

 You know what that means? It means...

Mike Tannenbaum has made some really bad QBs really wealthy?

[ZachEY]

On 1/28/2019 at 9:23 AM, Warfish said:

Got to love excuses.

no you dont understand todd bowles is the reason hackenberg and petty arent good but what could gase do with tannehill as his qb it wasnt his fault

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, Dcat said:

Love how you completely ignore the Tannehill contract that Tanny created the year before Gase was hired.  Very easy to make absurd conclusions when you ignorte the facts.  Tannehill could not be cut, traded or even benched with that contract given to him by Tanny in 2015.  Gase had nothing to do with that.   He wasn't a Dolphin yet.

Cap consequences of cutting or trading Tannehill:

2016: $22,040,000 dead money

2017: $24,875,000 dead money

2018: $22,100,000 dead money

2019 (now): $13,423,000 dead money

2020: $5,562,000 dead money.

Tanny was already benched, due to injury. Tanny missed 24 of the 48 games that Gase was the HC of the Dolphins. He was already benched. And it wasnt like Tanny was playing well when he was on the field. The last time Tannehill had a 300 yard game? Back in September 2016 during Gase 1st season as HC of the Dolphins. Gase 1st month as the HC is Tannehill's month throwing for 300 yards or more in a football game. We're in 2019 bro. 

The only thing absurd is to conclude that a player cant be cut, traded or benched when he's not even on the field to play. Also, I watched as the Texans gave Brock Osweiler a ridiculous contract yet somehow found a way to trade Osweiler and that contract to the Browns for some draft picks just 1 year later. So dont tell me that it's not possible. 

You claim to love what I ignore. No, im not ignoring his contract. What im simply highlighting is the fact that Adam Gase, not Mike Tannembaum, had the final say on that 53 man roster and he never explored getting a QB, if not for the poor performance atleast, then for his sudden ability to be injury prone. 

Imagine the Redskins making such a similar yet stupid move this draft because of Alex Smith's current contract. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/alex-smith-3337/

And anyone willing to say that "The Redskins cant draft a QB because of Smith's contract" is going to get the same look that I had when I read your above comment

When you're in a situation where the most important position on your football team is in limbo and schrouded with uncertainty, it's your job as the HC and controller of the 53 man roster to solidify that position, especially with him being a QB whisperer and all. 

Folks need to cut it out with the Gase excuses. It's for the birds. 

[Jetsplayer21]

We know mark Sanchez held back  rex Ryan from winning at least 1 Super Bowl ?‍♂️?

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Tanny was already benched, due to injury. Tanny missed 24 of the 48 games that Gase was the HC of the Dolphins. He was already benched. And it wasnt like Tanny was playing well when he was on the field. The last time Tannehill had a 300 yard game? Back in September 2016 during Gase 1st season as HC of the Dolphins. Gase 1st month as the HC is Tannehill's month throwing for 300 yards or more in a football game. We're in 2019 bro. 

The only thing absurd is to conclude that a player cant be cut, traded or benched when he's not even on the field to play. Also, I watched as the Texans gave Brock Osweiler a ridiculous contract yet somehow found a way to trade Osweiler and that contract to the Browns for some draft picks just 1 year later. So dont tell me that it's not possible. 

You claim to love what I ignore. No, im not ignoring his contract. What im simply highlighting is the fact that Adam Gase, not Mike Tannembaum, had the final say on that 53 man roster and he never explored getting a QB, if not for the poor performance atleast, then for his sudden ability to be injury prone. 

Imagine the Redskins making such a similar yet stupid move this draft because of Alex Smith's current contract. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/alex-smith-3337/

And anyone willing to say that "The Redskins cant draft a QB because of Smith's contract" is going to get the same look that I had when I read your above comment

When you're in a situation where the most important position on your football team is in limbo and schrouded with uncertainty, it's your job as the HC and controller of the 53 man roster to solidify that position, especially with him being a QB whisperer and all. 

Folks need to cut it out with the Gase excuses. It's for the birds. 

You are the one that makes a 100% gigantic assumption that Gase "loved" tannehill when it would have been a huge cap hit of over $24 million.  One might think that team ownership had a say in that decision.  That's big money.  Gase had Tannehill forced down his throat is just as likely a scenario.  He may have had his way with most roster decisions, but  $24 million in dead money goes beyond the headcoach prerogative.   The situation and evidence points directly to that.  

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

You are the one that makes a 100% gigantic assumption that Gase "loved" tannehill when it would have been a huge cap hit of over $24 million.  One might think that team ownership had a say in that decision.  That's big money.  Gase had Tannehill forced down his throat is just as likely a scenario.  He may have had his way with most roster decisions, but  $24 million in dead money goes beyond the headcoach prerogative.   The situation and evidence points directly to that.  

Tanenbaum gave Tannehill a huge extension before Gase got there 

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Mike Tannenbaum has made some really bad QBs really wealthy?

Well at least he didn’t give Ryan Fitzpatrick $20 million for throwing up 50/50 balls to Decker and Marshall

[Sperm Edwards]

On 1/31/2019 at 12:36 AM, win4ever said:

Prior to the Gase hire, I wanted to bring in Parker.  I was very high on Parker when he came out in the draft, thought he has AJ Green lite potential, but it never materialized.  I'm not sure anymore, because something was up in Miami between Parker/Dolphins.  He seemed to either not get along with Gase or the teammates because he didn't stand out much at all.  

On Gase:  

He was the wide receivers coach for Denver:

2008:

Brandon Marshall had a 100 catch season

Jabbar Gaffeney had a major improvement after leaving the Pats

Eddie Royal was drafted

Brandon Lloyd was also picked up

2009:

 

Marshall was gone

Demarius Thomas was drafted

Royal became much better

Brandon Lloyd has 1400 yards

Gaffney had his best season

Eric Decker was drafted

So in those two seasons, they found a useful receiver in Gaffney, got a great year out of Lloyd, and drafted Royal, Thomas, Decker.  So he's shown the ability to develop the receiver position.  I'm just not sure why Parker didn't develop at all.  

If only this were true.

Did veteran Gaffney improve post-NE chiefly because of the influence of first-time-ever WRC Gase, or did his numbers just go up when he went to a team where he wasn’t the lowly #4 WR, also under a HC who was his OC in NE? 

There’s no evidence or leaks I’m aware of that Gase was the influential reason they drafted Royal (or Thomas or Decker); let alone that their eventual successes were specifically due to Gase and that they’d have surely been less successful otherwise.

Gase wasn’t even with the Broncos when Royal was drafted in 2008: he was with the 49ers. After Royal’s promising 1000-yd rookie year, then Gase was hired as the WRC in 2009 and Royal instantly became crap — the opposite of "much better."

Marshall was already a 2-time 100-catch, 1200/1300-yd WR before he’d ever met Adam Gase (technically until he met Gase), so it’s a stretch to give him credit for Marshall. 

Gase wasn’t even the WRC when Thomas/Decker actually became wepponz; by then he was a full time QBC for the veteran QB who least needed a QBC. Rather, Tyke Tolbert was the WRC when Thomas and Decker developed/matured into starters. 

***

Hey, maybe it’s all true that Gase was the real mastermind out in Denver, but correlation doesn’t automatically mean causation. Parker’s lack of development, and the inherited Eddie Royal’s sudden and dramatic downturn, as well as other young players of his, might even suggest the contrary: that good players did well and lesser players didn’t and Gase’s tangible impact as WR developer was largely unremarkable. It’s in our best interest otherwise, but the only nothing-became-something from his 10 coaching years is just Lloyd — a veteran who had been a talented underachiever for years, and even that doesn’t automatically point to the WRC as the main causation for his one big-yardage season. Not unless we know of major flaws in Lloyd’s technique that were suddenly corrected by a 2nd yr WRC who had infinitely less experience with WR technique than did the player. 

Like most, I’m also happy we finally moved on from Bowles, but whether Gase is hyped up or not his success with the Jets will be what it’ll be (and that’ll mostly be due to the quality of players not him specifically, as the stark contrast in his Denver & Miami tenures showed). That’s not even a knock on Gase; that’s just how it is with most HCs.

[Bruce Harper]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:16 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Gase loved Tannehill though.  Never wanted to look for or draft another qb.

So is it concerning that if this article is true, why didnt gase realize this?

I don't buy that.  He had to talk him up.  What, is he going to say he sucks when he's the best guy he has?