The Baker Mayfield and His Mouth Thread

[Grandy]

1 minute ago, slats said:

QBs are judged by championships. You can debate whether or not that's fair, but I think it is. Rivers is a compiler with a losing post-season record. I'd vote against him. All those positions in the record books will be surpassed over time as the rules continue to favor QBs, and QBs regularly play into their 40s. 

I wouldn't consider Rivers a compiler. He puts up very good yearly numbers, and his averages are spectacular (as evidenced by his top 10 passer rating). He has also led in every major statistical category at least once including volume and averaged stats. Eli Manning is a compiler. 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I wouldn't consider Rivers a compiler. He puts up very good yearly numbers, and his averages are spectacular (as evidenced by his top 10 passer rating). He has also led in every major statistical category at least once including volume and averaged stats. Eli Manning is a compiler. 

Eli's a 2x champion. Rivers has been a part of middling teams most of his career and has a losing post-season record. He's Kirk Cousins putting up pretty numbers and going 8-7-1. Give Rivers Eli's rings and, yeah, he goes in. But he doesn't have the hardware. 

[New York Mick]

Over 550 post about the Browns and Giants, we need more Jet news. 

[Grandy]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Eli's a 2x champion. Rivers has been a part of middling teams most of his career and has a losing post-season record. He's Kirk Cousins putting up pretty numbers and going 8-7-1. Give Rivers Eli's rings and, yeah, he goes in. But he doesn't have the hardware. 

I think it comes down to if you believe that 2 rings makes up for Rivers blowing him away in every single category, even career wins when Eli has played over a season worth of games more than him.

One could argue that with him on the verge of a losing career record, and comparing his numbers to others of his era that Eli is just a modern day Jim Plunkett. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

He basically threw a hail Mary to Tyree.

Year in, year out in the top 10?  That's because year in and year out he's top 10 in attempts in mostly meaningless games accumulating garbage time numbers.

He should be top 10, if he was great he'd consistent be top 5 while leading categories now and then.  

15 seasons, here are his top 5 finishes:

Attempts 4

Yards 3

TDs 3

Rating ZERO

INTs 6(led three times)

Leading the league in a major category other than INTs (which he did three times)?  ZERO

He only earned 2 pro bowls, he made 2 more when multiple QBs dropped out and he was sent as a replacement.

ZERO all pro teams

He's only earned player of the week 4 times in my 15 seasons, for perspective Ryan Fitzpatrick has won that award 7 times (126 starts compared to 230 for Eli), Chad Pennington 6 times in just 81 starts.

It's not that he's never won without a D, most winning teams have good Ds.  He's never won without spectacular playoff defense.  He's only won playoff games in 2 postseasons and in those playoff wins his D never allowed more than 20 points.

Eli played well in both SB wins but without incredible D he doesn't get close to either SB.  He was a lot like Sanchez, the difference was Eli's D's stepped up in conference title games and SBs while Mark's did not.

I love how you go back to insulting me, you can't attack the argument so you attack me.

 

The assertion that it was a hail mary pass is ridiculous because it came down right where the reciever was, he didn't  just throw it into a group of players which is what a haol mary is and hope for a llucky deflection, there were only 2 players where the ball came down, Tyree and the Pats defender so the ball was placed where a catch could be made. 

Why do you insist on this crap. Eli has led the Giants and led that team well. 2 SB"s. Many winning seasons. And please, name me a team that win it all without a really good D. The Chielfs last season had the best O I think I ever saw. What happened there? In OT they couldn't  stop water rolling down a hill let alone the Pats.  No team wins a SB without that. 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I think it comes down to if you believe that 2 rings makes up for Rivers blowing him away in every single category, even career wins when Eli has played over a season worth of games more than him.

One could argue that with him on the verge of a losing career record, and comparing his numbers to others of his era that Eli is just a modern day Jim Plunkett. 

I'd take a modern day Plunkett over Rivers. I remember dreaming about Vinny Testaderde being our Jim Plunkett. Big difference is that Eli won his first championship in his 20's for the team that drafted him, not at 33 on his third team. 

I get that Rivers has dramatically better numbers than Eli. But, yes, I'd put Eli ahead of Rivers for HoF contention based on the rings. Rivers hasn't elevated his team to that level, and has mostly been a part of <10 win teams over his career, despite his impressive statistics. 

[Peace Frog]

25 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The assertion that it was a hail mary pass is ridiculous because it came down right where the reciever was, he didn't  just throw it into a group of players which is what a haol mary is and hope for a llucky deflection, there were only 2 players where the ball came down, Tyree and the Pats defender so the ball was placed where a catch could be made. 

Why do you insist on this crap. Eli has led the Giants and led that team well. 2 SB"s. Many winning seasons. And please, name me a team that win it all without a really good D. The Chielfs last season had the best O I think I ever saw. What happened there? In OT they couldn't  stop water rolling down a hill let alone the Pats.  No team wins a SB without that. 

You are arguing with an irrational hater. 

Hates Namath. Hates Peyton. Hates Eli. Loves UNC for no rational reason. 

Eli Manning is going to the Hall of Fame. Only an idiot would continue to argue otherwise (ad nauseum). 

[Joe W. Namath]

Will Eli be in the HOF?  Yes.

Does he deserve to be in the HOF?  No

Now, lets get back to ripping Mayfield cause hes better then Darnold.

[greenwichjetfan]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

I'd take a modern day Plunkett over Rivers. I remember dreaming about Vinny Testaderde being our Jim Plunkett. Big difference is that Eli won his first championship in his 20's for the team that drafted him, not at 33 on his third team. 

I get that Rivers has dramatically better numbers than Eli. But, yes, I'd put Eli ahead of Rivers for HoF contention based on the rings. Rivers hasn't elevated his team to that level, and has mostly been a part of <10 win teams over his career, despite his impressive statistics. 

We’re on the same wavelength here too.

[Peace Frog]

9 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Will Eli be in the HOF?  Yes.

Does he deserve to be in the HOF?  No

Now, lets get back to ripping Mayfield cause hes better then Darnold.

If he’s voted into the Hall of Fame, he deserves it. 

They don’t just give out yellow jackets. 

One may not like it, one may have an irrational hate for it, but if he goes in, if his bust is on display for all time, he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. 

And he is going in. 

[Kleckineau]

3 observations

Jets fans are only crapping all over Mayfield because they fear he could possibly be better than Darnold.

Of course Eli is a hall of famer. He is a NY QB who won 2 Superbowl games. His last name is Manning and he could retire with 60,000 yards and 400 TDs.

Joe Namath would not be in the hall if he hadnt QB'ed the lone Jets SB win.

 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Rivers is 7th all time in AY/A and and 8th in passer rating, and is going to end his career in the top five for yards and TDs. Klecko not being in the Hall is a travesty, but come on.

It’s impressive, but it’s also important to note the era he’s in (as evidenced by the current top 20 in AY/A) as well as the fact that a lot of his best numbers came when he was playing with 2 sure-fire HoF weaponzzzz.

Ultimately, I can’t get over the fact that for most of his career, he’s had great HoF teammates, a qualified offense-minded coaching staff, is extremely talented in his own right, yet over a 15 year career to date is sub .500 in only in 11 playoff games and 0 SBs.

[Grandy]

7 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Jets fans are only crapping all over Mayfield because they fear he could possibly be better than Darnold.

Or because he's acting like an immature teenager.

If Darnold had a better rookie season it doesn't change the fact that Baker has been extremely short tempered and childish. No other QB right now is acting like he is, and he has no room to act like a bigshot on a super team until he and the Browns prove that notion. 

[Kleckineau]

5 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Or because he's acting like an immature teenager.

If Darnold had a better rookie season it doesn't change the fact that Baker has been extremely short tempered and childish. No other QB right now is acting like he is, and he has no room to act like a bigshot on a super team until he and the Browns prove that notion. 

He is a big shot. He was drafted #1 and won the Heisman. He has had a big mouth forever. Kinda like you know who. So tell me. Why would any Jets fan care what Mayfield has to say?

[Peace Frog]

43 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Jets fans are only crapping all over Mayfield because they fear he could possibly be better than Darnold.

I don’t think that’s it. 

Mayfield is one of those guys, you either love or hate. 

I like the dude because, unlike Johnny Football, he can actually play the position. 

I get that some people hate him, fully understand it. 

Sam IMHO is and will be a better QB but Mayfield is going to be a good one. 

[Kleckineau]

8 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I don’t think that’s it. 

Mayfield is one of those guys, you either love or hate. 

I like the dude because, unlike Johnny Football, he can actually play the position. 

I get that some people hate him, fully understand it. 

Sam IMHO is and will be a better QB but Mayfield is going to be a good one. 

I never minded mouthy jocks as long as they can walk the walk and so far Baker has.

Subjectively, yes Sam absolutely can still eclipse Baker and lets hope he does.

Objectively, Baker is better right now.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

It’s impressive, but it’s also important to note the era he’s in (as evidenced by the current top 20 in AY/A) as well as the fact that a lot of his best numbers came when he was playing with 2 sure-fire HoF weaponzzzz.

Ultimately, I can’t get over the fact that for most of his career, he’s had great HoF teammates, a qualified offense-minded coaching staff, is extremely talented in his own right, yet over a 15 year career to date is sub .500 in only in 11 playoff games and 0 SBs.

PLEASE... PLEASE. please...highlight what Otto Graham did and note the time he did it in....... and it is why he is my Number 1A QB behind Montana.....

Otto Graham was that GOOD!!!!!!!

[Joe W. Namath]

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

If he’s voted into the Hall of Fame, he deserves it. 

They don’t just give out yellow jackets. 

One may not like it, one may have an irrational hate for it, but if he goes in, if his bust is on display for all time, he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. 

And he is going in. 

Thr hall of fame can never be wrong.  Got it.  Its a perfect institution.  

Maybe it should run the country.

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Thr hall of fame can never be wrong.  Got it.  Its a perfect institution.  

Maybe it should run the country.

You missed my point. 

And anything would be better than what’s running us now. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Has Eli manning ever been one of the top 5 qbs in a given season?  If so, what season was he one of the 5 best qbs in the league?

[roscoeword]

sometimes you have to throw statistics in the garbage and just see the games. Eli doesn't pass the eye test as being better than Rivers. Those Giant teams had great defenses and pass rush, and eli was solid, but he doesn't extend plays, he often stinks even when he has unbelievable receivers. It's like that thread comparing Eli to Big Ben. Forget about stats. Just watch the game, and Ben is much much better.

[Hackenberg - Banned]

5 hours ago, slats said:

QBs are judged by championships. You can debate whether or not that's fair, but I think it is. Rivers is a compiler with a losing post-season record. I'd vote against him. All those positions in the record books will be surpassed over time as the rules continue to favor QBs, and QBs regularly play into their 40s. 

No, QBS are judged by fantasy point potential. Get with it, bro.

Besides, no one gives a flip about Foles or Rypien or Dilfer anymore.

 

[Peace Frog]

4 hours ago, Hackenberg said:

No, QBS are judged by fantasy point potential. Get with it, bro.

Besides, no one gives a flip about Foles or Rypien or Dilfer anymore.

 

Not sure why any idiot would mention Eli and Foles in the same sentence. 

[Hackenberg - Banned]

50 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Not sure why any idiot would mention Eli and Foles in the same sentence. 

Because  of Championships of course!

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

On 7/20/2019 at 12:28 PM, Kleckineau said:

I never minded mouthy jocks as long as they can walk the walk and so far Baker has.

Subjectively, yes Sam absolutely can still eclipse Baker and lets hope he does.

Objectively, Baker is better right now.

Great post, NY fans/media would be loving the talk right now because Baker had a great rookie season, Bravado defines NYC all this talk that "he would be a disaster here" is wishful thinking since he is not in NY.  Bakers brings the Circus no doubt but he has backed it up so far, partly because he had an advantage;

Jackson was a better coach than Bowles and made Baker watch a few games, I think that would have helped Sam and we should hopefully see that level out this year.  Browns GM also did more to help his new FQB but Mac is fired now so hopefully that will even out as well

I think Sam will have a better career (still can't believe the Browns did not pick him #1 after that pro day in the rain)  only time will tell for sure

 

 

 

[nyjunc]

On 7/20/2019 at 9:29 AM, Jet Nut said:

Foles and any other side story you drag in to discredit Eli does.

Foles isnt Eli.  He had a single story book SB run and another year where his numbers were great until injured.

Elis has had a 15 year run.  One season, no matter who you drag up, isnt a 15 year career with two SBs.  Plenty have one.

Foles lone SB was better than Eli's combined two.  He led that win, be had to lead his O to 41 points, his D allowed the most points in SB history to a losing team.

Foles also had a season better than any Eli has had when he threw 27 TDs and 2 INTs.  In Eli's career his thrown at least 2 INTs in a GAME 42 times, he's thrown MORE than 2 INTs in a game 22 times.

Eli's 15 year run is mostly average play staying healthy while putting up garbage time numbers to accumulate totals to make people who don't watch him think he's a Hall of famer.

[nyjunc]

On 7/20/2019 at 10:34 AM, More Cowbell said:

The assertion that it was a hail mary pass is ridiculous because it came down right where the reciever was, he didn't  just throw it into a group of players which is what a haol mary is and hope for a llucky deflection, there were only 2 players where the ball came down, Tyree and the Pats defender so the ball was placed where a catch could be made. 

Why do you insist on this crap. Eli has led the Giants and led that team well. 2 SB"s. Many winning seasons. And please, name me a team that win it all without a really good D. The Chielfs last season had the best O I think I ever saw. What happened there? In OT they couldn't  stop water rolling down a hill let alone the Pats.  No team wins a SB without that. 

He threw it up for grabs, it was a desperation play.  It worked, credit to him for escaping the tackle and getting the ball up but it was a very lucky play just as the game ending int that Samuel dropped was very lucky.

Eli as a starting QB is just 2 games under .500, he's only been to the playoffs 6 times in 15 years and has gone one and done 4 of those 6 appearances.

You need good D to win, Eli needed spectacular D to win.  He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points.  He's the only multiple SB winning QB that hasn't led his O to at least 20 points in a SB, he's one of only 2 SB winning QBs that didn't lead his O to more than 20 in regulation in both conf championship game and SB(in games they started and finished) and he did this TWICE! The only other QB to do this was backup Jeff Hostetler in 1990 and in the SB he and his O won that game by holding the ball for 40+ minutes keeping the high powered Bills O off the field.

[nyjunc]

On 7/20/2019 at 2:32 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Has Eli manning ever been one of the top 5 qbs in a given season?  If so, what season was he one of the 5 best qbs in the league?

The only year he was close to top 5 was 2011, the year Peyton was out.  He may have been 5th or 6th best that year.  He was really good that year BUT after a 3 int game in game 14 to drop the Giants to 7-7 the season appeared over.  From that point on his defense dominated leading them to the SB.

[Klecko73isGod]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:42 AM, The Crusher said:

Baker Mayfield is 100% right. Probably shouldn’t have said it, but it makes him no less correct. 

Well... I found Mayfield's public bitching about Johnson's public bitching less than compelling.

Total lack of self awareness.

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Foles lone SB was better than Eli's combined two.  He led that win, be had to lead his O to 41 points, his D allowed the most points in SB history to a losing team.

Foles also had a season better than any Eli has had when he threw 27 TDs and 2 INTs.  In Eli's career his thrown at least 2 INTs in a GAME 42 times, he's thrown MORE than 2 INTs in a game 22 times.

Eli's 15 year run is mostly average play staying healthy while putting up garbage time numbers to accumulate totals to make people who don't watch him think he's a Hall of famer.

Youre just trolling poorly or think youre being funny. 

No one can seriously be this thick and fight with pretty much every fan on the board who doesnt agree with some nonsensical idea that will go to the end of time defending.  No one agrees with you.  Anyone who knows the game knows Eli is a HOF QB who gets in.  

Now its Foles we're selling.  His relatively mediocre career outside of one SB run and a partial season playing in a college system.  WTF does Foles and his one SB have to do with Eli and his two.  His relatively mediocre career with a guy whos playing time, his starts, his durability, the yardage hes thrown, number of TDs, etc dwarf what Foles has accomplished.  

I thought the compiler comment was goofy, you've somehow managed to go on a tangent thats even goofier.  

[nyjunc]

On 7/20/2019 at 11:13 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Will Eli be in the HOF?  Yes.

Does he deserve to be in the HOF?  No

Now, lets get back to ripping Mayfield cause hes better then Darnold.

He won't be, not if there are knowledgeable voters on the committee.  He doesn't even belong in the discussion.  I'm still wondering how a QB that was never great and never among the best QBs in the league can be considered one of the best of all time.

A QB like Ken Anderson isn't in, this man won a league MVP, led league in completions twice, comp % three times, yards twice, rating 4 times, made numerous all pro teams yet Eli Manning will make it because his D was incredible in 2 postseasons?

On 7/20/2019 at 10:38 AM, slats said:

I'd take a modern day Plunkett over Rivers. I remember dreaming about Vinny Testaderde being our Jim Plunkett. Big difference is that Eli won his first championship in his 20's for the team that drafted him, not at 33 on his third team. 

I get that Rivers has dramatically better numbers than Eli. But, yes, I'd put Eli ahead of Rivers for HoF contention based on the rings. Rivers hasn't elevated his team to that level, and has mostly been a part of <10 win teams over his career, despite his impressive statistics. 

Eli did win with his first team, in a season he threw 20 INTs leading the league.  Eli was drafted to a better team than Vinny or plunkett.  His team could still win with him throwing that many INTs.

Rivers has been a Peyton like postseason performer but he's been a top notch consistent QB over 16 games a year.  The truly best do it in both reg and postseason but doing it consistently each year over 16 games is more impressive than having a good few games in January where your D dominates making it easy for you.

Eli has won playoff games in just 2 postseasons, Rivers 4.  

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre just trolling poorly or think youre being funny. 

No one can seriously be this thick and fight with pretty much every fan on the board who doesnt agree with some nonsensical idea that will go to the end of time defending.  No one agrees with you.  Anyone who knows the game knows Eli is a HOF QB who gets in.  

Now its Foles we're selling.  His relatively mediocre career outside of one SB run and a partial season playing in a college system.  WTF does Foles and his one SB have to do with Eli and his two.  His relatively mediocre career with a guy whos playing time, his starts, his durability, the yardage hes thrown, number of TDs, etc dwarf what Foles has accomplished.  

I thought the compiler comment was goofy, you've somehow managed to go on a tangent thats even goofier.  

You do a great job attacking me, unfortunately you don't do a great job presenting your argument.

Foles best regular season was better than Eli's best.

Foles lone SB was better than Eli's 2 combined.

It shows Eli is a compiler, he's not great and never has been. The hall of fame is for ALL TIME greats

[JustInFudge]

"Compiler" - is legit, hands down, no close second place, the stupidest sh*t any human has come up with in a debate to try and diminish the efforts of an athlete who is paid to, you know, produce results. 

[Jet Nut]

12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

You do a great job attacking me, unfortunately you don't do a great job presenting your argument.

Foles best regular season was better than Eli's best.

Foles lone SB was better than Eli's 2 combined.

It shows Eli is a compiler, he's not great and never has been. The hall of fame is for ALL TIME greats

Youre a baby who always runs back to "youre attacking me" 

Keep trolling, arguing and coming back to me and everyone else with all of your pointless, baseless arguments driven by jealousy or hatred, whichever it is.

Foles has nothing to do with Manning.  Youre actually trying to make a point that a mostly backup QB has a better anything than Eli and his career to make a nonsensical point.  Yes, when you keep comparing Foles and his one SB run on a team that when he took over because of injury was a SB favorite.  Had, get this, a superior D.  

Eli is top 10 career wise in every single category that counts.  In games played, he 99.  So the compiler nonsense youre now selling is just as pointless as your Foles comparison.  A lot of wind that you'll soon go away from and then spin into a different pointless counter.   Or try to diminish what he did in the season by bringing up 20 INTS.  Who F'n cares.

Because no matter how many times you say it, no matter how many meaningless numbers or comparisons  like Foles you you bring up for some reason, the truth is Eli will go to the HOF and Foles will need to buy a ticket to get in.

Stop the trolling, you suck at it, its time to move on.  

Jets didnt deserve their SB, Namath wasnt that good outside of a year, Favre was awful in NY....

[More Cowbell]

27 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He threw it up for grabs, it was a desperation play.  It worked, credit to him for escaping the tackle and getting the ball up but it was a very lucky play just as the game ending int that Samuel dropped was very lucky.

Eli as a starting QB is just 2 games under .500, he's only been to the playoffs 6 times in 15 years and has gone one and done 4 of those 6 appearances.

You need good D to win, Eli needed spectacular D to win.  He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points.  He's the only multiple SB winning QB that hasn't led his O to at least 20 points in a SB, he's one of only 2 SB winning QBs that didn't lead his O to more than 20 in regulation in both conf championship game and SB(in games they started and finished) and he did this TWICE! The only other QB to do this was backup Jeff Hostetler in 1990 and in the SB he and his O won that game by holding the ball for 40+ minutes keeping the high powered Bills O off the field.

You know what, I would take Eli and all of his stats over having a QB like Marino who lit up the record books and never won a SB. 2 rings for Eli. End of story.