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Patriot Killa

Is it a cardinal sin to give up high draft picks as a rebuilding team?

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I been thinking about the Jets unique situation with being a rebuilding team that has only a few steps to go and how far they would be willing to go in trades that include very good to elite talent. Is there a limit or unsaid rule that a rebuilding team shouldn’t be giving up high picks for players no matter the ability of the player or need in position. Especially for a rookie GM.

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Only if the player in question is young. I would not give high pick for a star who is older but if he’s just hitting his prime then go for it. 

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The Jets aren’t a couple pieces away is the problem. The whole o-line is basically duct taped together and no one is a sure bet to be here within the next two seasons. 

If we have a top five pick this upcoming draft we better get a draft haul for the ages since there should be Tua and a bunch of high end depth at receiver and oline this upcoming draft. 

Plus have you seen the recent qb contracts? Cap hell has been absent since the last cba, but the market is starting to adjust and having bloat while being mediocre is worst case scenario. Rookie contracts are going to keep increase in value as long as the rookie contract lengths remain fixed like they are. 

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good teams build through the draft and player development.  We draft Kyle Wilson.  Pats draft Gronkowski 15 picks later....   We draft Adams, let 2 good QBs go and then lose 3 seconds to get Darnold  who can’t get on the field. 

 

Think about Brick, Mangold, Harris, Revis, Cotchery etc..... DRAFT.

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we just saw pittsburgh give up a first rounder for minkah fitzpatrick.  i wonder if the trade went through before or after ben's injury?  if it was after then they may have given up a top 10 pick.  the doltfins win big on that one.  but as we have seen, in 3 of 5 drafts the jets had a top 6 pick that they either couldn't move from or they decided whatever the best player was in who they would pick.  hence the arrival of leo, adams, and qwilliams.  not saying they are bad players but they are not skill positions nor are they game changers.  to be fair we haven't seen qwilliams play enough and adams can be a game changer if he stays in position and does his job.  so it's hard to say giving up high picks for good players is good or bad.  a good player is a good player in the present.  a draft pick still has some risk.

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14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re talking about trading a probable top 5 pick for Jalen Ramsey, throw yourself down a staircase 

Yeah well I really don’t value the opinion of Jamal Adams haters so.

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8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

“I been thinking about the Jets unique situation with being a rebuilding team that has only a few steps to go ...”

Disagree with this part right off the bat. They need 6+ new starters and much better depth.

At a minimum we probably need starters at Edge, CB, LT, RG, C, WR.  Probably 2 CBs and 2 WRs if we’re being honest. 

 

5 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Few pieces? What?

Its depth that makes the quality of the roster and we don’t have that, understood, but as far as starters go, there isn’t much left to take care of besides 3 or 4 positions.

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26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re talking about trading a probable top 5 pick for Jalen Ramsey, throw yourself down a staircase 

O-KAAAAYYY!

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5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

Its depth that makes the quality of the roster and we don’t have that, understood, but as far as starters go, there isn’t much left to take care of besides 3 or 4 positions.

We have needs for an entire OL, WR 1, CB 1, CB 2, EDGE RUSHER 1. 9 starters. That doesn’t include the fact that we need depth but in theory many current starters COULD become depth if the price is right. There are way too many holes overall in my opinion. 

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Trading a top 5 pick for anyone (outside of the best 5% League talent) is silly. 

Trade back and accumulate more picks is the only option. 

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Le'veon Bell, CJ Moseley, and at this point MAYBE Darnold are the only players worth anything on the entire roster. That's it. Everyone else is just roster filler. 

 

Start with completely rebuilding the O line, and then the Receiver corps. Using a 1st rounder on a rental (Diva) Corner is the type of SOJ move that has them in the exact situation they are current mired in. 

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11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

Its depth that makes the quality of the roster and we don’t have that, understood, but as far as starters go, there isn’t much left to take care of besides 3 or 4 positions.

3-4? Last time I checked, an offensive line consists of five players. That’s more than four right there. 

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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re talking about trading a probable top 5 pick for Jalen Ramsey, throw yourself down a staircase 

I've already negotiated the trade, it is Jamal Adams for Jalen Ramsey.  I am just waiting for Douglas to fax me back with final approval.

As an aside Pittsburgh was stupid to trade a 1st for minkah.

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A good rule of thumb is if you think you are drafting in the top 5 you don't trade the pick for anyone. Of you think you are going to be drafting in the bottom 5 you don't hesitate to trade the pick for anyone who you believe could help your superbowl push?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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8 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

We have needs for an entire OL, WR 1, CB 1, CB 2, EDGE RUSHER 1. 9 starters. That doesn’t include the fact that we need depth but in theory many current starters COULD become depth if the price is right. There are way too many holes overall in my opinion. 

I hate when people say WR1,2,3 ... CB1,2,3. 

Look we need a few decent players at those positions lol — nothing more complicated than that.

a lot of these jobs can be filled with young talent in FA with how young edge rushers hit the market last year. The Packers STOLE two guys from Baltimore and now have one of the best defenses in the league. This really isn’t that hard, Creepy. I don’t think we’re close but we ARE a few positions from getting it right. Like I said 3-4 positions away.

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2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I hate when people say WR1,2,3 ... CB1,2,3. 

Look we need a few decent players at those positions lol — nothing more complicated than that.

a lot of these jobs can be filled with young talent in in FA with how how young edge rushers hit the market last year. The Packers STOLE two guys from Baltimore and now have one of the best defenses in the league. This really isn’t that hard, Creepy. I don’t think we’re close but we ARE a few positions from getting it right. Like I said 3-4 positions away.

Difference is they drafted everyone else. GB drafted their entire offense. 

When was the last time you read about those cheese dicks having pay for a WR or RB? Like REALLY pay.  I don’t think we (you) can compare the Jets to another other teams’ circumstances.... 

we make Cambodia look like Kansas  

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5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Difference is they drafted everyone else. GB drafted their entire offense. 

When was the last time you read about those cheese dicks having pay for a WR or RB? Like REALLY pay.  I don’t think we (you) can compare the Jets to another other teams’ circumstances.... 

we make Cambodia look like Kansas  

They had no kind of defense and now they do. They drafted their entire offense but didn’t do much with the defense. I was specifically talking about edge rushers with creepy but I get your point. I don’t think you’re wrong in a sense but nooo....they are good on defense now because they were smart with who they signed 

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50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re talking about trading a probable top 5 pick for Jalen Ramsey, throw yourself down a staircase 

@T0mShane Damn you why is it you hate all the good players? 

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I think some of you guys are getting caught up on agreeing or disagreeing with my stance on the Jets roster rather than understanding the real question.

should rebuilding teams trade valuable assets?

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The Jets' offensive line could and probably should look very different next season.

Kelechi Osemele - 2021 UFA (would save $11.7 million against the cap if he's cut next off-season)

Ryan Kalil - 2020 UFA (I wonder if he's reconsidering his decision to retire after such a sloppy start)

Kelvin Beachum - 2020 UFA

Brian Winters - 2021 UFA (would save $7.5 million against the cap if he's cut next off-season)

Jonotthan Harrison - 2021 UFA (would save $2.25 million against the cap if he's cut next off-season)

Tom Compton - 2020 UFA

Brent Qvale - 2020 UFA

Chuma Edoga - 2023 UFA

Alex Lewis - 2020 UFA

Brandon Shell - 2020 UFA

Calvin Anderson - 2020 ERFA

Really the only offensive lineman who is a lock to make next season's roster is Edoga.

And then you look at the cornerbacks on the roster. Trumaine Johnson is horrible, but if the Jets ride out this season with him, then they can save $3 million against the cup and incur dead money of $12 million if they cut him.

Unless things take an upswing very quickly very soon, the Jets are not a few players away from challenging for the Super Bowl. They're miles off it.

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18 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I hate when people say WR1,2,3 ... CB1,2,3. 

Look we need a few decent players at those positions lol — nothing more complicated than that.

a lot of these jobs can be filled with young talent in FA with how young edge rushers hit the market last year. The Packers STOLE two guys from Baltimore and now have one of the best defenses in the league. This really isn’t that hard, Creepy. I don’t think we’re close but we ARE a few positions from getting it right. Like I said 3-4 positions away.

What is your problem with WR 1, CB 1,2 etc? These are glaring holes and needs. They are also what the positions are referred to as. I’m not sure I understand what your problem is with referring to them that way or if you disagree that they are needs. 

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19 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

What is your problem with WR 1, CB 1,2 etc? These are glaring holes and needs. They are also what the positions are referred to as. I’m not sure I understand what your problem is with referring to them that way or if you disagree that they are needs. 

Because the label #1 WR is far and wide between. It is not an actual position. We have WR’s. We don’t have enough good WR’s that can play X. That’s is the actual issue. I don’t refer to WR/CB by No.1 types or No.2 types. That’s all I was saying. 

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23 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I think some of you guys are getting caught up on agreeing or disagreeing with my stance on the Jets roster rather than understanding the real question.

should rebuilding teams trade valuable assets?

Not no, but **** no!

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28 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I think some of you guys are getting caught up on agreeing or disagreeing with my stance on the Jets roster rather than understanding the real question.

should rebuilding teams trade valuable assets?

And your aren't being specific. Trade a 4th rounder for a solid O lineman under 27 years old? Sure, no problem.

 

A high first rounder for secondary piece (OG, S,) or on an old player or a player.with a history of being "difficult" to with that. 

 

Just depends.but you need your top 2 or 3 picks to draft young TALENT, and if you can get the right guy that fits your system,  has the ability, is young, and dedicated to playing the game, then yeah, sometimes you have to pull the trigger.

 

But selling picks for more picks to use to move up or acquire specific guys is useful also. 

 

And should we trade assets (players) from more deadt capital? It that player isn't a bundling block for the future, hell yeah if you get appropriate value. 

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55 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I hate when people say WR1,2,3 ... CB1,2,3. 

Look we need a few decent players at those positions lol — nothing more complicated than that.

a lot of these jobs can be filled with young talent in FA with how young edge rushers hit the market last year. The Packers STOLE two guys from Baltimore and now have one of the best defenses in the league. This really isn’t that hard, Creepy. I don’t think we’re close but we ARE a few positions from getting it right. Like I said 3-4 positions away.

I hate when people say we are 3-4 positions away when its painfully apparent that we are not. A few "decent" players? Come on. We need to rebuild the OL plus the skill positions after Bell suck. Its really sad that some people can't face up to the fact that their expectations for this team this year were way to high and need to start staring at cold reality. Sam was never going to pull a Mahomes and light it up simply because the difference in talent between the Jets roster and KC's is so night and day that its ridiculous.

 

And no rebuilding teams should not trade away picks AT ALL. Just thought I'd throw that in.

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I been thinking about the Jets unique situation with being a rebuilding team that has only a few steps to go and how far they would be willing to go in trades that include very good to elite talent. Is there a limit or unsaid rule that a rebuilding team shouldn’t be giving up high picks for players no matter the ability of the player or need in position. Especially for a rookie GM.

Sorry PK, but I think we're a lot further then "a few steps" from contention.

I would be looking to accumulate picks, not trade them. This team needs to draft better and stockpile young, homegrown talent. The big trade or FA players aren't going to help us long term.

That said, we have a lot of eggs in 3 baskets right now. We need Sam Darnold, Joe Douglas and Adam Gase to all be really good at what they do. We are tied to the 3 of them for the foreseeable future. The odds of all 3 working out? Well I'll leave that one alone...

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5 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

And your aren't being specific. Trade a 4th rounder for a solid O lineman under 27 years old? Sure, no problem.

 

A high first rounder for secondary piece (OG, S,) or on an old player or a player.with a history of being "difficult" to with that. 

 

Just depends.but you need your top 2 or 3 picks to draft young TALENT, and if you can get the right guy that fits your system,  has the ability, is young, and dedicated to playing the game, then yeah, sometimes you have to pull the trigger.

 

But selling picks for more picks to use to move up or acquire specific guys is useful also. 

 

And should we trade assets (players) from more deadt capital? It that player isn't a bundling block for the future, hell yeah if you get appropriate value. 

High draft picks specifically 

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5 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

I hate when people say we are 3-4 positions away when its painfully apparent that we are not. A few "decent" players? Come on. We need to rebuild the OL plus the skill positions after Bell suck. Its really sad that some people can't face up to the fact that their expectations for this team this year were way to high and need to start staring at cold reality. Sam was never going to pull a Mahomes and light it up simply because the difference in talent between the Jets roster and KC's is so night and day that its ridiculous.

 

And no rebuilding teams should not trade away picks AT ALL. Just thought I'd throw that in.

Lol this is all I needed my man^  

I understand I triggered you guys though and I’m sorry. I really do feel different about the entire situation and I can’t help it. I think one good offseason is all we need.

im glad we have a better topic to work with than usual though. That was mainly my purpose for this thread. Get good conversation going.

 

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14 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Because the label #1 WR is far and wide between. It is not an actual position. We have WR’s. We don’t have enough good WR’s that can play X. That’s is the actual issue. I don’t refer to WR/CB by No.1 types or No.2 types. That’s all I was saying. 

Gotcha. How about 2 “starter level” CBs or 1 additional starting level WR etc.? You get what I’m saying. I’m also trying to be generous and consider Robbie Anderson a WR 2 in this case or a starting level WR on a decent NFL roster and Jordan Jenkins being a starting level edge player. I’m not even sure that is the case and they are on the low level of quality when giving them this benefit of the doubt. Even with that, we need 9 starters. 8 if you consider Shell a starting RT which I don’t. That’s just a lot of holes when you compound poor depth. 

As it relates to your question about trading picks, it really depends. High picks should be saved in hopes of trading down and accumulating picks but if you can trade a 3rd-5th pick for a decent/starter level player at a premium position, you have to consider it. Some teams just flat out don’t have cap room or refuse to pay players and would prefer something over noting and trade players at a discount at the end of their rookie contracts. It’s rare to find a player worth it since you have to pay then too but you can’t rule out that rare opportunity if it presents itself. 

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3 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

As it relates to your question about trading picks, it really depends. High picks should be saved in hopes of trading down and accumulating picks but if you can trade a 3rd-5th pick for a decent/starter level player at a premium position, you have to consider it. Some teams just flat out don’t have cap room or refuse to pay players and would prefer something over noting and trade players at a discount at the end of their rookie contracts. It’s rare to find a player worth it since you have to pay then too but you can’t rule out that rare opportunity if it presents itself. 

I had guys like Trent Williams in mind with this thread. Would you protect your QB right now until you can find your guy for the next 10 years? But it would cost a 2nd. It’s beneficial that your QB doesn’t get killed but it’s also a 2nd rounder gone. Not ideal when April rolls around. BUT is ideal for the development of Darnold and his health 

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I been thinking about the Jets unique situation with being a rebuilding team that has only a few steps to go and how far they would be willing to go in trades that include very good to elite talent. Is there a limit or unsaid rule that a rebuilding team shouldn’t be giving up high picks for players no matter the ability of the player or need in position. Especially for a rookie GM.

If you are referring to the Jalen Ramsey situation, I would send our #1 in a heart beat. You sign Ramsey, you fix the secondary in one move. Ramsey is a shutdown corner. 

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47 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I think some of you guys are getting caught up on agreeing or disagreeing with my stance on the Jets roster rather than understanding the real question.

should rebuilding teams trade valuable assets?

No

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