The QB position has evolved. The future is here now.

[Jet_Engine1]

I'm old enough to remember those heady days when Tannehill was considered a rising star and an elite, mobile QB. Ah, 24 hours, ago. The good old days. 

[munchmemory]

Watching Mahomes yesterday (and pretty much every time I've seen the kid play) should give everyone a clear picture of what this era's prototypical QB could/should be.  Mahomes is fast, elusive, smart, has incredible touch and arm strength, and able to read defenses before the snap or command a complex offense.  

Kudos to Andy and his staff for picking this guy.  His perfect 55 yard pass--on the run and across his body!-- for a TD in the second half is one of the greatest/most impresive throws I've seen in 50+ years of watching the NFL. 

[14 in Green]

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick had more yards rushing this year than Patrick Mahomes

That's an interesting stat, I never would have guessed that.

People love to knock Fitzpatrick here, but he's played very well for Miami. He was the best QB in the AFC East this year. 

[Lupz27]

29 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The two teams in the SB both have classic drop back QB's.  Mahomes is simply a great athlete playing the position who's best quality is his arm and field vision.  He's ability to back up from pressure and expand the field with his vision and decision making allows him to utilize his incredible arm.  He's arm and vision opens up so much space his runs are simply the result of the Defense having to play so much field. 

Man if only someone could have predicted this 3 years ago, and slapped Macc in the face.  Wish I had a chance to meet Macc back then and drug his ass on draft night.

[BigRy56]

Mahomes and Darnold are the future of the AFC

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

Man if only someone could have predicted this 3 years ago, and slapped Macc in the face.  Wish I had a chance to meet Macc back then and drug his ass on draft night.

Members on this board could have drafted better than MM. 

[HtownJet]

Mahomes and Darnold are the future of the AFC

Darnold? What has he done to give you such hope?

[Lupz27]

6 minutes ago, HtownJet said:

Darnold? What has he done to give you such hope?

Not turn 23 yet.

[HessStation]

There will ALWAYS be more than one way to skin a cat in the NFL. Trends will ALWAYS come and go. The bottom line is every great team has a great QB, HC and OL or an elite Defense with a great HC and OL...or almost always 3 out of those 4 things

[rangerous]

16 hours ago, jetsons said:

There is a distinct difference between a "running" QB & a "mobile" QB... running QB's do not last & will not excel in the NFL... Mobile QB's have been in the NFL since the inception of the forward pass... They will always be there... some will succeed some will not just like pocket passing QB's.

yep.  another attribute of these mobile qb's is their throwing accuracy.  mahomes, garafallo, etc. are always thinking throw first and only take off if the coverage isn't right.  i don't know if this is a revolution or just the way the qb's are being used in the colleges.  the scrambling type of qb's always gave the defenses fits.  darnold fits this mold too.  he can move pretty well when he wants to and frequently he needs to run for a first down instead of waiting for a receiver to come free.

[Philc1]

27 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

That's an interesting stat, I never would have guessed that.

People love to knock Fitzpatrick here, but he's played very well for Miami. He was the best QB in the AFC East this year. 

[TuscanyTile2]

16 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pat Mahomes runs a 4.8/40 and is about as mobile as Chad Pennington.

What are you trying to say?  You should be grateful to got to watch an amazing athlete like Chaddy cakes!

[Philc1]

17 minutes ago, HtownJet said:

Darnold? What has he done to give you such hope?

Been the second best QB in his draft class despite terrible coaching and no supporting cast

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, HessStation said:

There will ALWAYS be more than one way to skin a cat in the NFL. Trends will ALWAYS come and go. The bottom line is every great team has a great QB, HC and OL or an elite Defense with a great HC and OL...or almost always 3 out of those 4 things

Well at least we have none of those things except for a potentially very good QB

[slimjasi]

14 hours ago, Jets723 said:

Yeah I can understand Lamar,Mahomes,and Watson but not Allen.  I think the shills as a whole did a great job.  Allen did a good job too but once he was needed to make throws well...it didn’t go too well ? 

No, Allen "led" a team with a top defense to the playoffs much like Sanchez "led" the Jets to the playoffs. 

Therefore, he's good, correct? Am I doing this right?

[14 in Green]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

No, Allen "led" a team with a top defense to the playoffs much like Sanchez "led" the Jets to the playoffs. 

Therefore, he's good, correct? Am I doing this right?

Since you seem to be married to the Allen/Sanchez thing, yeah. 

I look at Allen and I don't see the Sanchez comparison at all, but whatever. We have plenty of guys here who dismiss a QB as soon as they lose a playoff game, and others who coronate ones simply because they're "young." Who's to say who's right or wrong?

To each their own...

[14 in Green]

23 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Let me guess. You're going with Darnold.

Because he's 23 and has no OL and stuff... you certainly can't be going off performance or numbers.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

Since you seem to be married to the Allen/Sanchez thing, yeah. 

I look at Allen and I don't see the Sanchez comparison at all, but whatever. We have plenty of guys here who dismiss a QB as soon as they lose a playoff game, and others who coronate ones simply because they're "young." Who's to say who's right or wrong?

To each their own...

Allen is a much better physical specimen than Sanchez and has had a better first two years, but both were/are fundamentally limited by poor accuracy and were carried by an elite defense. Sanchez also had an elite running game, which is a huge reason he was able to win some playoff games. 

Unfortunately, Allen was much worse in his lone playoff game than Sanchez was in his 6 playoff games. 

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss Allen, but trying to put him in the same category as Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson (who themselves don't even really belong together) is just silly. 

 

[joewilly12]

We need to have some patience with Sam Darnold. 

He needs better players around him. 

He did well minus his mistakes with a crappy OL,weak WR's and a 1 dimensional running game. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

We need to have some patience with Sam Darnold. 

He needs better players around him. 

He did well minus his mistakes with a crappy OL,weak WR's and a 1 dimensional running game. 

Well, to be fair, he's not a "playoff performer" like Allen. Allen has one of the best defenses in the league, so he is better. 

For realz. 

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Allen is a much better physical specimen than Sanchez and has had a better first two years, but both were/are fundamentally limited by poor accuracy and were carried by an elite defense. Sanchez also had an elite running game, which is a huge reason he was able to win some playoff games. 

Unfortunately, Allen was much worse in his lone playoff game than Sanchez was in his 6 playoff games. 

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss Allen, but trying to put him in the same category as Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson (who themselves don't even really belong together) is just silly. 

 

Sanchez was groomed to be a professional QB since he was in HS.  Allen walked on to a third rate program and people took notice.  He's gotten the coaches Sanchez had for years before entering the NFL for a total of 2 years now.  

Peter Boyle didn't become Boris Karloff overnight. 

[14 in Green]

13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Allen is a much better physical specimen than Sanchez and has had a better first two years, but both were/are fundamentally limited by poor accuracy and were carried by an elite defense. Sanchez also had an elite running game, which is a huge reason he was able to win some playoff games. 

Unfortunately, Allen was much worse in his lone playoff game than Sanchez was in his 6 playoff games. 

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss Allen, but trying to put him in the same category as Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson (who themselves don't even really belong together) is just silly. 

 

The only "category I have Allen in with those 3 is mobility. Not ability.

The Sanchez comp with Allen is funny though. Personally I'd comp Sanchez with another QB from the '18 draft. You know the one. He also came out of USC a year early, also had a disappointing final season there, was drafted high in the first round by the same team, and had underwhelming seasons his first two years.

But that's just my opinion.

[joewilly12]

Just now, 14 in Green said:

The only "category I have Allen in with those 3 is mobility. Not ability.

Exactly 

Disturbing though why Sam Darnold didn't run more often when he had the opportunities. 

Was he told not to run? 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Sanchez was groomed to be a professional QB since he was in HS.  Allen walked on to a third rate program and people took notice.  He's gotten the coaches Sanchez had for years before entering the NFL for a total of 2 years now.  

Peter Boyle didn't become Boris Karloff overnight. 

I don't disagree, but I think poor accuracy is very hard to correct long term and I think the Bills will always have a tough time having an efficient offense with Allen running the show unless they are able to maintain an elite defense and/or running game. 

[joewilly12]

Josh Allen is a big physical QB who makes up for his errant throws with his running and occasional deep ball HR. 

[Jets723]

17 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

We need to have some patience with Sam Darnold. 

He needs better players around him. 

He did well minus his mistakes with a crappy OL,weak WR's and a 1 dimensional running game. 

This 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

That's an interesting stat, I never would have guessed that.

People love to knock Fitzpatrick here, but he's played very well for Miami. He was the best QB in the AFC East this year. 

Actually his QBR for the year was lower than Sam’s and only threw for more yards.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

The only "category I have Allen in with those 3 is mobility. Not ability.

The Sanchez comp with Allen is funny though. Personally I'd comp Sanchez with another QB from the '18 draft. You know the one. He also came out of USC a year early, also had a disappointing final season there, was drafted high in the first round by the same team, and had underwhelming seasons his first two years.

But that's just my opinion.

1) Again - if you are cherry-picking mobile guys around the league, then you aren't really saying anything that interesting. We all know mobility is important. But trying to connect Allen to Mahomes to Jackson to Watson to anyone else who can scramble, doesn't really work that well. 

2) The comparison between Allen/Sanchez is based on the fact that Allen is a "playoff performer" much like Sanchez was a "playoff performer." It's a nice thing to say, until you realize that it is utterly meaningless and has no bearing on what type of QB a guy will develop into.

One might say that Allen was the QB of a playoff team this year, much like Sanchez was the QB of playoff teams in 2009 and 2010. (Unfortunately for Allen, it's tough to even say this without also mentioning that he was awful in his only playoff game)

The other obvious connection they have is that neither has was able to complete 60% of his passes in either of their first two NFL seasons. As others have repeatedly noted, bad accuracy is tough to correct as QBs get older. 

A third potential connection is the lack of 300 yard passing games. Josh Allen, in 27 career starts, has yet to throw for 300 yards in a single game. Not one time. Likewise, Sanchez only threw for 300 yards twice in his first two seasons. This is another potential red flag for "limited passer."

 

3) Since you brought up Darnold - Darnold completed 61.9% of his passes this year and has thrown for 300 yards four times in 26 career starts, despite playing behind a significantly worse offensive line than either Allen or Sanchez had in their first two years. 

[JustInFudge]

I dont typically comment on anything the OP says about QB's because I find his takes and evaluations beyond puzzling and flat out wrong (as we see on display here in this thread).  But I felt completed to call out the hypocrisy of his thread since others have already pointed out how utterly inaccurate it is.  What's ironic is the OP hates Sam Darnold and thinks he's the worst QB in the league, yet the one true undeniable feature that Sam presents as a QB is that he is "strong armed, mobile and  elusive".   If it werent for those abilities, he wouldnt have gone 7-6  as a starter behind a historically bad OL, running for his life with no real supporting cast around him.  It was basically the only positive feature of the the offense in 2019.  Yet, here we are talking about how Josh Allen is changing the game of Football. 

[Patriot Killa]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

3) Since you brought up Darnold - Darnold completed 61.9% of his passes this year and has thrown for 300 yards four times in 26 career starts, despite playing behind a significantly worse offensive line than either Allen or Sanchez had in their first two years. 

Context doesn’t matter to him when speaking about Darnold. OL doesn’t matter, weapons don’t matter, all I know is he’s mediocre.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yet, here we are talking about how Josh Allen is changing the game of Football. 

If Josh Allen was worth being talked about, he would of taken advantage of his 18 OT opportunities in the wildcard round and went on to play KC.

[UnitedWhofans]

Speaking of the future of QBs

This shows you how good he is and also a small reason (wrongly) why he fell to 12 in the draft

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

If Josh Allen was worth being talked about, he would of taken advantage of his 18 OT opportunities in the wildcard round and went on to play KC.

What's funny is, Josh Allen played in the league about 10 years ago but his name was Vince Young back then.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

What's funny is, Josh Allen played in the league about 10 years ago but his name was Vince Young back then.

Oooooooooh Good call

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Speaking of the future of QBs

This shows you how good he is and also a small reason (wrongly) why he fell to 12 in the draft

I ultimately ended up convinced by @Lupz27 but my biggest contention the whole time was the Big 12 piece.  It was hard to get over and rightfully so based on this data and how bad Mayflower and Rudolph are being drafted from the same conference and sucking.