The QB position has evolved. The future is here now.

[T0mShane]

Ryan Fitzpatrick had more yards rushing this year than Patrick Mahomes

[joewilly12]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick had more yards rushing this year than Patrick Mahomes

Running for his life yards. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

I'm picturing you trying to tackle his 4.8 rear end, my man.

He'd have a better chance than Jamal Adams.  

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

Watson and Mahomes are not running qbs. They run when the defense necessitates it (in Watson's case it's more for his life) but they always look to throw first, run second.

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick had more yards rushing this year than Patrick Mahomes

But Fitz brings his lunchpail to work whereas Mahomes is more athletic!

Though I will say that TD run was impressive.  He demonstrated a lot more braun than speed, but still.  

[Vader]

41 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Elway was an all time great.

Thus far Mahomes isn't a "poor man's" anything. If you think he is, I"m not going to bother debating it. It's not worth it.

Kinda sorta disagree 

[slimjasi]

What did Allen do again? 

[14 in Green]

7 minutes ago, Vader said:

Kinda sorta disagree 

No problem.

We're allowed to have different opinions, right? ?

[Jets723]

16 hours ago, slimjasi said:

What did Allen do again? 

Yeah I can understand Lamar,Mahomes,and Watson but not Allen.  I think the bills as a whole did a great job.  Allen did a good job too but once he was needed to make throws well...it didn’t go too well ? 

[14 in Green]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

What did Allen do again? 

Go back and take a look.

[14 in Green]

3 hours ago, Jets723 said:

Yeah I can understand Lamar,Mahomes,and Watson but not Allen.  I think the shills as a whole did a great job.  Allen did a good job too but once he was needed to make throws well...it didn’t go too well ? 

That's hysterical. Allen lost a playoff game, and was exciting as hell to watch while he did it. The kid played his heart out.

But yeah, pass judgement based on that one loss Allen had in a PLAYOFF game. It showed you all you need to know, 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

That's hysterical. Allen lost a playoff game, and was exciting as hell to watch while he did it. The kid played his heart out.

He completed 52 % of his throws.  Garbage, Sanchezian performance out of Joshy.  

Feel free to gush about the other guys.  Allen is not in that category at all.  

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Go back and take a look.

He did the same thing for the Bills that Sanchez did for the Jets in 2009, but his team didn’t have quite as much success and he was no where near as good in the playoffs.

There is nothing from this year to indicate that he separated himself from the pack in any meaningful way.

If anything, the fact that he completed less than 60% of his passes for a second straight year with such a good defense on the other side of the ball is a potential red flag going forward. 

Other than that, I agree with your basic point that mobility is incredibly important in the league right now. I think the only issue with your original post is that you are lumping very different QBs together. 
 

Mahomes is special. What he does has and always will work in the league. He’s basically like a mobile Marino.

Jackson is very unique and an incredible athlete, but it remains to be seen whether Baltimore’s QB run heavy offense is sustainable.

We agree on the big picture - mobility is a big deal and having it means a lot right now. 

[slimjasi]

56 minutes ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

Watson and Mahomes are not running qbs. They run when the defense necessitates it (in Watson's case it's more for his life) but they always look to throw first, run second.

Correct.

There is a basic distinction to be made between Mahomes and Jackson. 

Jackson has a lot of plays that are designed for him to be the ball carrier. It remains to be seen whether an offense like that can work for more than a handful of years at the highest levels of competition. 

[Jets723]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He completed 52 % of his throws.  Garbage, Sanchezian performance out of Joshy.  

Feel free to gush about the other guys.  Allen is not in that category at all.  

Exactly.  Look Mahomes deserves the praise.  Watson also deserves it.  Lamar has a rough playoffs but was a beast this year.  Allen is not in that same league with them l.  Also I’m not bashing Allen.  I gave him credit but you can trust his arm right now 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Jets723 said:

Exactly.  Look Mahomes deserves the praise.  Watson also deserves it.  Lamar has a rough playoffs but was a beast this year.  Allen is not in that same league with them 

 

14 desperately needs Allen to be part of that next wave of elite young QB's.  He keeps saying Allen is "getting better".  If going from 53 % completions as a rookie to 59 % as a 2nd year player is "getting better"....I mean, I guess going from god-awful to just awful is progress?

[Jets723]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

14 desperately needs Allen to be part of that next wave of elite young QB's.  He keeps saying Allen is "getting better".  If going from 53 % completions as a rookie to 59 % as a 2nd year player is "getting better"....I mean, I guess going from god-awful to just awful is progress?

I guess lol.  Look I don’t have any regrets about who our QB is but I will say Mahomes, Watson,and Lamar are exiting exiting players.  Allen is not close to them 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Jets723 said:

I guess lol.  Look I don’t have any regrets about who our QB is but I will say Mahomes, Watson,and Lamar are exiting exiting players.  Allen is not close to them 

Yep.

Here's how I would rank the 1st round QB's from the 2017-19 classes, based on both present performance AND what I expect them to do going forward:

1. Mahomes
2. Watson
3. Jackson
4. Kyler Murray
5. Darnold
6. Mayfield
7. Trubisky
8. Daniel Jones
9. Rosen
10. Allen
11. Haskins

[Jets723]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.

Here's how I would rank the 1st round QB's from the 2017-19 classes, based on both present performance AND what I expect them to do going forward:

1. Mahomes
2. Watson
3. Jackson
4. Kyler Murray
5. Darnold
6. Mayfield
7. Trubisky
8. Daniel Jones
9. Rosen
10. Allen
11. Haskins

I can accept that list 

[14 in Green]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

He did the same thing for the Bills that Sanchez did for the Jets in 2009, but his team didn’t have quite as much success and he was no where near as good in the playoffs.

There is nothing from this year to indicate that he separated himself from the pack in any meaningful way.

If anything, the fact that he completed less than 60% of his passes for a second straight year with such a good defense on the other side of the ball is a potential red flag going forward. 

Other than that, I agree with your basic point that mobility is incredibly important in the league right now. I think the only issue with your original post is that you are lumping very different QBs together. 
 

Mahomes is special. What he does has and always will work in the league. He’s basically like a mobile Marino.

Jackson is very unique and an incredible athlete, but it remains to be seen whether Baltimore’s QB run heavy offense is sustainable.

We agree on the big picture - mobility is a big deal and having it means a lot right now. 

I didn't start this thread to "rate QBs", that's why I replied the way I did. I started it to discuss how mobile QBs are becoming so much more prevalent, and how well they're doing so early in their careers.

Sure some are better then others and no, Allen doesn't have the same way of doing it as say, Kyler Murray, but they're all threats with their legs and their arms.

What you think of Allen is your opinion, and I'm sure a lot of others here agree with you. I don't, but that really doesn't matter.

[14 in Green]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He completed 52 % of his throws.  Garbage, Sanchezian performance out of Joshy.  

Feel free to gush about the other guys.  Allen is not in that category at all.  

I wasn't gushing 80, all I said about him was he was a playoff QB when I included him on the list of young, mobile QBs.

I'm honestly trying not to get into a ranking the QBs thing, but unfortunately, this thread really looks like it's going to end up there.

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I didn't start this thread to "rate QBs", that's why I replied the way I did. I started it to discuss how mobile QBs are becoming so much more prevalent, and how well they're doing so early in their careers.

Sure some are better then others and no, Allen doesn't have the same way of doing it as say, Kyler Murray, but they're all threats with their legs and their arms.

What you think of Allen is your opinion, and I'm sure a lot of others here agree with you. I don't, but that really doesn't matter.

That’s fine, but the discussion falls apart when you lump very different types of QBs together. 
 

Anyone with a brain sees that mobility is a big deal 

[14 in Green]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.

Here's how I would rank the 1st round QB's from the 2017-19 classes, based on both present performance AND what I expect them to do going forward:

1. Mahomes
2. Watson
3. Jackson
4. Kyler Murray
5. Darnold
6. Mayfield
7. Trubisky
8. Daniel Jones
9. Rosen
10. Allen
11. Haskins

I like this list a lot, except for the Allen/ Jones rating. I'd put both ahead of Trubisky.

BTW I might have Mayfield a little higher, but I think you knew that. ?

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

I like this list a lot, except for the Allen/ Jones rating. I'd put both ahead of Trubisky.

BTW I might have Mayfield a little higher, but I think you knew that. ?

Main thing that gives me pause regarding Murray is he might go back to Baseball one day, or at least he could use that as leverage in negotiations on his 2nd contract.

Not our problem, at least.  For now he's in a good situation with Kingsbury.  

[14 in Green]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

14 desperately needs Allen to be part of that next wave of elite young QB's.  He keeps saying Allen is "getting better".  If going from 53 % completions as a rookie to 59 % as a 2nd year player is "getting better"....I mean, I guess going from god-awful to just awful is progress?

I've got to stop that, if that's how it's coming off.

I like the kid, but I didn't mean to confuse "getting better" with elite. I don't even think he'll be a top 10 QB.

Now Baker... that's another story, LOL

[GREENBEAN]

3 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Or Staubach. lol

He and Tark were outliers though. Now players like them will become more and more the norm...

Randall Cunningham

mike Vick ? 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

Go back and take a look.

Nah, not that interested.

A synopsis would've sufficed.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Mahomes being this good necessarily mean the position is changing. He’s going to end up being the GOAT. 

Yeah but we got a safety. I don’t know if you heard, but he was 1st team AP this year. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

The NFL game has to adapt to the players the College game provides.  Not  a difficult or new concept - the threat of a QB running is harder to defend - if not for injuries, I think this "transition" would have happened sooner...

It will be interesting how or if QB contracts change as a result - College teams can win with their 2nd or 3rd string QB while NFL teams have 20-30% of resources (cap) invested in the starting QB (injuries matter more)

[The Crusher]

15 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

When a ground breaking new product is introduced, it often serves as a trial balloon of sorts. The second iteration is often better, because a company has time to examine and hear comments about the initial release.

The QB position, and the way it has changed is no different. Mobile QBs who are as dangerous with their legs as they are with their arms are the future of the NFL. We saw the first iteration a few years back, with the likes of RGIII and Cam Newton. They were exciting, and at times dominant. However, they were a prototype, not a finished product. OC's had yet to learn how to design plays that would not only make use of their abilities, or how to protect them from injury. Players like them used their bodies magically, but exposed them to injury.

Enter the second wave... First came Mahomes and Watson. Then a year later Jackson and Allen. This year it was Kyler Murray. Strong armed, mobile, and elusive, every one of them. They are the future of the QB position, and they are here. They're here now, and more are coming.

Oh great the model is strong and mobile and Jets end up with strong  and mono. 

[Lupz27]

14 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

That's the same old tired response I keep hearing over and over in this forum.

Open your eyes and look at the game, and the QB position. It's changing, and you refuse to see it.

Mahomes - the best QB in the game, '18 MVP going to the Super Bowl

Watson - Playoff performer and among the top 10 in the game

Jackson - Playoff performer and will be the '19 MVP

Allen - playoff performer, getting better and better

Murray - Soon to be named Rookie of the Year

 

Big Ben

Aaron Rodgers 

Steve Young

Hell John Elway could scramble

Russell Wilson

Brett Favre

These are just guys who won Super Bowls off the top of my head who could move a pocket, scramble to by time for WR’s to get open, or just be physically dominant to be able to shrug off would be defenders to throw dimes down the field, I’m sure there are more if I go look.

sh*t Joe Willie was as mobile as it gets before his knees went.

[slats]

15 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

When a ground breaking new product is introduced, it often serves as a trial balloon of sorts. The second iteration is often better, because a company has time to examine and hear comments about the initial release.

The QB position, and the way it has changed is no different. Mobile QBs who are as dangerous with their legs as they are with their arms are the future of the NFL. We saw the first iteration a few years back, with the likes of RGIII and Cam Newton. They were exciting, and at times dominant. However, they were a prototype, not a finished product. OC's had yet to learn how to design plays that would not only make use of their abilities, or how to protect them from injury. Players like them used their bodies magically, but exposed them to injury.

Enter the second wave... First came Mahomes and Watson. Then a year later Jackson and Allen. This year it was Kyler Murray. Strong armed, mobile, and elusive, every one of them. They are the future of the QB position, and they are here. They're here now, and more are coming.

So, I'm not buying any of this. 

There have always been running QBs, and young QBs have always run more than more experienced QBs. What's the difference between these guys and Tarkenton, Elway, Cunningham, Steve Young, Vick, etc. They will all throw more and run less as they gain experience, or they will find themselves nowhere like RGIII, or in purgatory like Cam. Sure, these young guys are exciting to watch when they take off with the ball, but history tells us it's not sustainable - especially if they aren't protecting themselves. 

This is nothing new. There's been no seismic shift. The quality of athletes in the league have been evolving over the course of the century, and that includes the QB position. I'm very impressed with what John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson managed to achieve this year, but I'm also impressed with the way Mike Vrabel shut it down. Very interested to see what, "the offense no one has ever seen before," looks like, and how it's defended, next year. 

Mobile QBs a new thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-threat_quarterback

[Biggs]

The two teams in the SB both have classic drop back QB's.  Mahomes is simply a great athlete playing the position who's best quality is his arm and field vision.  He's ability to back up from pressure and expand the field with his vision and decision making allows him to utilize his incredible arm.  He's arm and vision opens up so much space his runs are simply the result of the Defense having to play so much field.   Jimmy G is a classic drop back QB who happens to be surrounded by elite talent on the OL and has skill players who can exploit the incredible blocking scheme Shanahan has designed.  

Nothing has changed except the rules.   The running QB's are no where to be seen in the SB once again.   

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

BTW I'm sure I'm at least as old as you. I remember Namath playing at Alabama, LOL.

Where he ran like a deer and had that arm.  

[Jet_Engine1]

15 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

I'm picturing you trying to tackle his 4.8 rear end, my man.

That's weird.