Jamal Adams...sign him or trade him?

[Big_Slick]

12 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Actually he said ILB and anyone who does think Adams plays the part of an ILB is clearly not a very knowledgeable football fan. 

I don't think anyone says that he lines up primarily at ILB. He's a box SS who plays at the LoS and puts up stats comp to ILB's and not SS.

I'll repeat 2019 season first 8 games.

- started out 1-7 record
- 1 sack (Dolphins)
- 5 passes defended
- 1 int (garbage time, b/u QB)

- 42 tackles solo+asst

- 1-1 record when he was out against the Dolphins and Ravens during the 6-2 finish to end the season

 

And this guy, after his 3rd season, wants to be paid like a top 5 D player.

[Big_Slick]

23 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

So posting this GIF is in response to "good GM's don't take non-premium positions with the #6 overall pick. It's basic cap and resource management. Most folks agree that QB, CB, WR and edge are the premium positions."

 

[More Cowbell]

7 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

I don't think anyone says that he lines up primarily at ILB. He's a box SS who plays at the LoS and puts up stats comp to ILB's and not SS.

I'll repeat 2019 season first 8 games.

- started out 1-7 record
- 1 sack (Dolphins)
- 5 passes defended
- 1 int (garbage time, b/u QB)

- 42 tackles solo+asst

- 1-1 record when he was out against the Dolphins and Ravens during the 6-2 finish to end the season

 

And this guy, after his 3rd season, wants to be paid like a top 5 D player.

I'm not going to list Adams stats about passes defended, sacks, QBR vs him, etc. They have all been posted here ad-nausea. People like yourself  who classify  Adams as a box safety are wearing blinders to the fact that he has played anything but that. He is a key player on the Jets D and the team record would be worse if he wasn't  on the team. That alone makes him better than what you are classifying him as. 

[More Cowbell]

10 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

So posting this GIF is in response to "good GM's don't take non-premium positions with the #6 overall pick. It's basic cap and resource management. Most folks agree that QB, CB, WR and edge are the premium positions."

 

No, are you really that oblivious to what that was in response to. I'm not helping you out with this because I don't  think you are this naive. 

[Big_Slick]

9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I'm not going to list Adams stats about passes defended, sacks, QBR vs him, etc. They have all been posted here ad-nausea. People like yourself  who classify  Adams as a box safety are wearing blinders to the fact that he has played anything but that. He is a key player on the Jets D and the team record would be worse if he wasn't  on the team. That alone makes him better than what you are classifying him as. 

Where was he the 1st 8 games of last season when the Jets were 1-7?

[Big_Slick]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

No, are you really that oblivious to what that was in response to. I'm not helping you out with this because I don't  think you are this naive. 

If Adams was taken where a SS deserves to be picked according to his positional value he'd have a rookie contract that pays him less than a #6 overall pick.

[More Cowbell]

5 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Where was he the 1st 8 games of last season when the Jets were 1-7?

Where was anyone? The guy is a really good player, he isn't  a miracle worker. We had no QB and a extraordinary amout of injuries. No one player makes up for that. 

[More Cowbell]

6 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

If Adams was taken where a SS deserves to be picked according to his positional value he'd have a rookie contract that pays him less than a #6 overall pick.

You really think he hasn't  lived up to what he is being paid?

[flgreen]

I honestly don't see what all the debate is about.  Looking at it from Douglas standpoint:

Is Adams a good SS?........Yes

Is he the best SS in the NFL?.......Under Williams system, More then likely

Would I like him to remain a Jet thru his prime years?.....Absolutely

What is he asking?.........At this point I'm not sure, but I saw a tweet from a Jets fan that said "just give Adams $100M 5 years, $65M gnt"  Adams tweeted back, "Your getting warm" 

Am I going to pay him that?...No way

What should he do?  Answer is pretty clear.  2020   Under contract $7.2M

2021  5th year extension  $9.9M   2022 Franchise tag.  $11.6M.  Maybe a 2nd tag in 2023 for around $14M

If some team steps up and offers a boat load of picks for him......trade him.  I don't see that happening.  Just can't see ANY GM giving up a boat load of picks, then having to pay him a kings ransom.  What makes  Adams  appealing for a potential trade this year is that he's fairly cheap.  If you have to pay him silly money, a GM would be very stupid to do that deal.

IMO Douglas doesn't have to do anything.  Why should he?  The new CBA makes it almost impossible for camp hold outs.  Think it's now $40,000 a day league fine.  Unlike under the former CBA the player, not the team, must pay it.  

Put on top of all this, potentially a drop in cap, and possibility of a drop in Franchise tag.  Not good for Adams

Adams will be very unhappy, will not attend voluntary meetings, and tweet his ass off.

Oh well 

 

[Pac]

1 hour ago, Big_Slick said:

JD is not going to give Adams an extension in 2020. He might trade him but he'll rightfully hold Adams to his contract. We'll have to wait and see how Adams is used in 2020 without all the injuries on defense, GW now has more players at his disposal.

If it helps the Jets to sign him to a realistic extension in 2021 then I'm all for it.

I don't think JD should give Adams an extension this year unless it's team friendly.  Sets a bad precedent.

What I'm saying is there is no way Adams is being traded unless it's something like Adams and a 6th for a 1st, Gallup, and a 3rd.  I'd take that but in no way would take a 1st and 3rd.  Apparently neither will JD.

I like what I've seen from JD.  It's going to be either an extension or a trade with fair compensation.  He doesn't seem like the type that will capitulate to players or fans.  Works for me.

[Creepy Lurker]

56 minutes ago, Pac said:

I don't think JD should give Adams an extension this year unless it's team friendly.  Sets a bad precedent.

What I'm saying is there is no way Adams is being traded unless it's something like Adams and a 6th for a 1st, Gallup, and a 3rd.  I'd take that but in no way would take a 1st and 3rd.  Apparently neither will JD.

I like what I've seen from JD.  It's going to be either an extension or a trade with fair compensation.  He doesn't seem like the type that will capitulate to players or fans.  Works for me.

Bingo. 

[Bowles Movement]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

I don't think JD should give Adams an extension this year unless it's team friendly.  Sets a bad precedent.

What I'm saying is there is no way Adams is being traded unless it's something like Adams and a 6th for a 1st, Gallup, and a 3rd.  I'd take that but in no way would take a 1st and 3rd.  Apparently neither will JD.

I like what I've seen from JD.  It's going to be either an extension or a trade with fair compensation.  He doesn't seem like the type that will capitulate to players or fans.  Works for me.

Im sure Darnolds reps are just hoping that the Jets buckle to Adams demands so they can do the same thing next year.

[GreenFish]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Punters and Kick Returners make the All-Pro team too.  

You can also be a DE who gets asked to take up blocks.

Jamal has a premium skill set and plays a premium role in our defense. He can cover TEs very well (we don’t get burned by TEs anymore) and he makes impact plays behind the line of scrimmage. 

[Pac]

1 minute ago, Bowles Movement said:

Im sure Darnolds reps are just hoping that the Jets buckle to Adams demands so they can do the same thing next year.

Darnolds a different story..  if he has a good year the Jets should extend him.  He's been decent the first couple years but he's not in a position to ask for top 5 QB money.

With the absolutely crazy contracts that mediocre QB's are getting it would be prudent to lock him in after next season for top 10 QB money rather than wait and watch him demand the insane contract that Dak is asking for.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

You just made a great case for keeping him. Any player that makes your O or D better overall is a must to keep. You don't  improve your team by trading away players that have that kind of effect. 

Ha Ha Clinton Dix would make our defense better, and only costs $4 million.

Jadaveon CLowney would make our defense better, but I wouldn't pay him $20 million a year for the same sack total as Jordan Jenkins.

Hence why I wouldn't pay Jamal Adams $16 million for 6.5 sacks,, 75 combined tackles, and 1 INT.

[Bowles Movement]

5 minutes ago, Pac said:

Darnolds a different story..  if he has a good year the Jets should extend him.  He's been decent the first couple years but he's not in a position to ask for top 5 QB money.

With the absolutely crazy contracts that mediocre QB's are getting it would be prudent to lock him in after next season for top 10 QB money rather than wait and watch him demand the insane contract that Dak is asking for.

It would be prudent to sign Adams long term too right now, if it can be done in a way that gives a discount that reflects his current contract status.   But players and their agents never come in with that approach.  They want to jump to Free Agent status and top tier salary before their contract is up.   I doubt it would be any different with Sam.  It’s easier to say the NY Jets policy is that they don’t tear up contracts with more than a year left.

[Prez33]

4 hours ago, slats said:

This is your Aha! moment! The is the argument for trading Adams! Offense wins in today's league, and Adams doesn't even play a premium position on defense. If you can convert his value into value on offense (or CB or Edge on defense), you're improving the team. 

Unless you were here under another name, you weren't on this board for that draft. There was A TON of discussion about both Mahomes and Watson at #6. The Jets were in desperate need for a QB, and almost certainly passed because they drafted Hackenberg the year before. And yes, the same guy who drafted Hack also had Trubisky as his top QB in that draft. 

And also, how can you slam the value of a RB at #6 when you're comparing it to a safety? While RB is also a lesser valued position in today's NFL, if you look at salary numbers across the league, teams are paying RBs more than safeties. Who would you rather have on the team, Adams or McCaffrey? I have a preference. But I'll tell you this, too, I'd've also discussed trading him away before paying a RB $16M/year. 

I don’t doubt that fans may have expressed some interest in Mahomes, but most evaluations outside this forum had Mahomes as a late 1st at best, and using the 6th overall pick would’ve been risky for a team with so many needs and a safe, obvious choice sitting right in front of them. The Adams pick was praised almost universally by the way. But once again, the advantage of hindsight comes into play. 
 

If we had taken McCaffrey at #6 we would have been eviscerated by fans and media. It would have been SOJ hysteria. “How can we take a RB at 6, this team is clueless, etc”.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

I honestly don't see what all the debate is about.  Looking at it from Douglas standpoint:

Is Adams a good SS?........Yes

Is he the best SS in the NFL?.......Under Williams system, More then likely

Would I like him to remain a Jet thru his prime years?.....Absolutely

What is he asking?.........At this point I'm not sure, but I saw a tweet from a Jets fan that said "just give Adams $100M 5 years, $65M gnt"  Adams tweeted back, "Your getting warm" 

Am I going to pay him that?...No way

What should he do?  Answer is pretty clear.  2020   Under contract $7.2M

2021  5th year extension  $9.9M   2022 Franchise tag.  $11.6M.  Maybe a 2nd tag in 2023 for around $14M

If some team steps up and offers a boat load of picks for him......trade him.  I don't see that happening.  Just can't see ANY GM giving up a boat load of picks, then having to pay him a kings ransom.  What makes  Adams  appealing for a potential trade this year is that he's fairly cheap.  If you have to pay him silly money, a GM would be very stupid to do that deal.

IMO Douglas doesn't have to do anything.  Why should he?  The new CBA makes it almost impossible for camp hold outs.  Think it's now $40,000 a day league fine.  Unlike under the former CBA the player, not the team, must pay it.  

Put on top of all this, potentially a drop in cap, and possibility of a drop in Franchise tag.  Not good for Adams

Adams will be very unhappy, will not attend voluntary meetings, and tweet his ass off.

Oh well 

 

Any chance you h ave a link to that tweet?

[Untouchable]

 

[bitonti]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:47 PM, Bowles Movement said:

Why not the Pats and Steelers as the role models to follow?   Theyve been more successful and trade guys for picks or let them leave and accumulate comp picks.   

The Pats' model is interesting. Bob Kraft found a loophole to allow TB12 Rehab centers on the Gilette campus. Again it's an example of commitment to winning (that woody doesn't have). They cheat. Which, like good for them I guess. At least they care.  

The Steelers' model is more relevant to the discussion. Which is sad because the Steelers are worth 2.8 Billion by being in Pittsburgh and the Jets are worth 3.2 Billion for being in New York 

How much more can Woody Johnson charge for a luxury box in New York than the Rooney's can in Pittsburgh? 

The Jets are being run like a small market team despite being in the largest city in America

and by the way the Steelers paid Troy P when they drafted him. Adams is on a similar career track. 

[Bowles Movement]

27 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Pats' model is interesting. Bob Kraft found a loophole to allow TB12 Rehab centers on the Gilette campus. Again it's an example of commitment to winning (that woody doesn't have). They cheat. Which, like good for them I guess. At least they care.  

The Steelers' model is more relevant to the discussion. Which is sad because the Steelers are worth 2.8 Billion by being in Pittsburgh and the Jets are worth 3.2 Billion for being in New York 

How much more can Woody Johnson charge for a luxury box in New York than the Rooney's can in Pittsburgh? 

The Jets are being run like a small market team despite being in the largest city in America

and by the way the Steelers paid Troy P when they drafted him. Adams is on a similar career track. 

Yet they have let Bell , Beachum and a myriad of receivers walk, and seem ready to do the same with JuJu.   So is Polamalu the exception to the rule?  Or have they changed tactics in the 10 yrs since Troy left to do shampoo commercials?

 

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Ha Ha Clinton Dix would make our defense better, and only costs $4 million.

Jadaveon CLowney would make our defense better, but I wouldn't pay him $20 million a year for the same sack total as Jordan Jenkins.

Hence why I wouldn't pay Jamal Adams $16 million for 6.5 sacks,, 75 combined tackles, and 1 INT.

Clinton Dix now sucks, Clowney is a slightly above average DL with injury issues. How does either make our D play better

[Jets723]

2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

It would be prudent to sign Adams long term too right now, if it can be done in a way that gives a discount that reflects his current contract status.   But players and their agents never come in with that approach.  They want to jump to Free Agent status and top tier salary before their contract is up.   I doubt it would be any different with Sam.  It’s easier to say the NY Jets policy is that they don’t tear up contracts with more than a year left.

I think they are trying but I’ve hear Adams is asking for like 20 million per so no hometown discount at all 

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Any chance you h ave a link to that tweet?

I tried to save all of Jamal's tweets, and the tweets about him, but my computer only has 512GB storage.    

Even with out that Adams has compared himself in value  to  Tom Brady, and Aaron Donald.  Donald has $ 87,000,000 gtn on his contract.  I'm sure Jamal would be very insulted with much less.   

With Adams ego I think $100M $65 gtn is conserative in what he's demanding at the moment.   I don't think Douglas is stupid enough to give it to him when he can have him for the next 3 years for under $30M 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I tried to save all of Jamal's tweets, and the tweets about him, but my computer only has 512GB storage.    

Even with out that Adams has compared himself in value  to  Tom Brady, and Aaron Donald.  Donald has $ 87,000,000 gtn on his contract.  I'm sure Jamal would be very insulted with much less.   

With Adams ego I think $100M $65 gtn is conserative in what he's demanding at the moment.   I don't think Douglas is stupid enough to give it to him when he can have him for the next 3 years for under $30M 

LOL...see if @Maxman can add a few TB to the server and lend a hand on that one.  I was actually asking because I'd think somebody would pick up on it and report it so I was going to put something in a blog post about it.  

[Big_Slick]

4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

You really think he hasn't  lived up to what he is being paid?

I just think that using the #6 overall pick on a SS is poor cap and resource management. Jamal is an excellent player and the rookie pay scale has made him worth what he's been paid so far but moving forward a SS is not worth a $15M-$17M contract extension.

[More Cowbell]

42 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

I just think that using the #6 overall pick on a SS is poor cap and resource management. Jamal is an excellent player and the rookie pay scale has made him worth what he's been paid so far but moving forward a SS is not worth a $15M-$17M contract extension.

He would be worth that even if he was picked last in the 5th round. This is a rediculous argument.  Draft position is not a factor in his upcoming contract. 

[BurnleyJet]

 

[pdxgreen]

20 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

 

What kind of self-absorbed mongoloid where's a Muscle T on a broadcast "call in" talk show?  Jeez.  I followed Pat's show on DAZN and I get that he has to have a bunch of "head nodding" sycophants around him.  But that shirt makes him look like Hulk Hogan's rub down boy in the movie 'No Holds Barred.'  Welfoms to the Gun Show... for two straight hours.

[BurnleyJet]

1 minute ago, pdxgreen said:

What kind of self-absorbed mongoloid where's a Muscle T on a radio talk show?  Jeez.  I followed Pat's show on DAZN and I get that he has to have a bunch of "head nodding" sycophants around him.  But that shirt makes him look like Hulk Hogan's rub down boy in the movie 'No Holds Barred.'

It’s just entertainment, his style is hyperbolic.

[Big_Slick]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

He would be worth that even if he was picked last in the 5th round. This is a rediculous argument.  Draft position is not a factor in his upcoming contract. 

Draft position is a factor in that the 1st round players (it may be only the top 10 picks - not sure) are signed to 4 year contracts with a team option for a 5th year and then the team can franchise tag the player for a 6th year.

Jets own his butt for three more years at a cost well below a long term extension at $15M-$17M. What is ridiculous is Adams demanding an extension after his 3rd season and refusing to participate in the voluntary off season training sessions as a protest when he has absolutely zero leverage.

I trust JD to use the excess cap dollars saved by not giving Adams a big $$ extension to sign players at impact positions. This is what I'd do rather than pay now or trade Adams for less than a mid to high 1st in 2020 and another 1st in 2021.

[pdxgreen]

7 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

It’s just entertainment, his style is hyperbolic.

He has some decent takes.  But interspersed between the self aggrandizing about his career and constantly sticking his head of Aaron Rodger's ass... it just gets lame.  Somewhere between a sports fan boy round table and a ex-jock with too much ftee time on his hands.

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Draft position is a factor in that the 1st round players (it may be only the top 10 picks - not sure) are signed to 4 year contracts with a team option for a 5th year and then the team can franchise tag the player for a 6th year.

Jets own his butt for three more years at a cost well below a long term extension at $15M-$17M. What is ridiculous is Adams demanding an extension after his 3rd season and refusing to participate in the voluntary off season training sessions as a protest when he has absolutely zero leverage.

I trust JD to use the excess cap dollars saved by not giving Adams a big $$ extension to sign players at impact positions. This is what I'd do rather than pay now or trade Adams for less than a mid to high 1st in 2020 and another 1st in 2021.

Your OP claimed he was overpaid because he was chosen 6th instead of 12th. How does anything you just wrote justify that. If the Jets think they want to offer a new deal this offseason,  that is their decision,  not Adams. If Adams is not happy about not getting a new deal, he can hold out but there is nothing he can do to force it if the Jets don't  want to give him one. We have seen this before and the player rarely wins this kind of fight. And wtf cares about him  not participating in a voluntary workout. What a non-event. 

[Big_Slick]

24 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Your OP claimed he was overpaid because he was chosen 6th instead of 12th. How does anything you just wrote justify that. If the Jets think they want to offer a new deal this offseason,  that is their decision,  not Adams. If Adams is not happy about not getting a new deal, he can hold out but there is nothing he can do to force it if the Jets don't  want to give him one. We have seen this before and the player rarely wins this kind of fight. And wtf cares about him  not participating in a voluntary workout. What a non-event. 

Yeah, I meant to say that any SS picked #6th overall is overpaid because of the rookie pay scale that the collective bargaining agreement agreed on and the value that the position is worth.  I don't want to pound this into the ground but that's a poor use of cap and resource management by Macc, only idiot GM's that will never work in the NFL again would make that pick.

Adams can't hold out when it comes to mandatory CBA obligations, he'll be fined $40K a DAY if he holds out. His refusal to participate in voluntary on-line Zoom meeting is not a good look and won't get him anything except more talking heads drowning on about him which will not go over very well in the Jets front office.

His father being a 1st round pick and advising him reminds me of Revis and his uncle. The league has changed and he doesn't have Revis's leverage (premium position vs cheaply replaced) or his negotiating position considering the new CBA. We own him for three years and he can't hold out with the penalty being $40K a day for a hold out.

[More Cowbell]

8 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Yeah, I meant to say that any SS picked #6th overall is overpaid because of the rookie pay scale that the collective bargaining agreement agreed on and the value that the position is worth.  I don't want to pound this into the ground but that's a poor use of cap and resource management by Macc, only idiot GM's that will never work in the NFL again would make that pick.

Adams can't hold out when it comes to mandatory CBA obligations, he'll be fined $40K a DAY if he holds out. His refusal to participate in voluntary on-line Zoom meeting is not a good look and won't get him anything except more talking heads drowning on about him which will not go over very well in the Jets front office.

His father being a 1st round pick and advising him reminds me of Revis and his uncle. The league has changed and he doesn't have Revis's leverage (premium position vs cheaply replaced) or his negotiating position considering the new CBA. We own him for three years and he can't hold out with the penalty being $40K a day for a hold out.

Just forget about all the BS you are ssying about pay scale because in this case it makes zero sense. Adams has by far out performed his current contract. Using the words over paid in terms to his current deal is incredibly stupid. He is under paid currently.  I don't care what position you feel should be drafted at 6, Adams is not being over paid at his current salary. 

And what, nobody ever held out on their rookie deal? Melvin Gordon says hi.