Report: Ravens in trade discussions for Jamal Adams

[Jetsfan80]

Honest question to whomever cares to answer:
Does anyone think that if the Adams played in  a more traditional SS role in a defense that relies heavily on Zone coverage, whether it be Tampa 2,  Cover 3 or Quarters, he would still have issues raising his interception totals to that 4-5 a year range that appears to be an acceptable level?
Or another way to look at it, is it a lack of ball skills and instinct that causes those numbers?  Or the role he's deployed in?

He was deployed as a traditional SS his first 2 years and collected 1 INT.

His hands suck and he’s a very average athlete. So, no, it’s not just his role impacting his INT count.

Moreover, GW knows this. Hence why he used him like he did last year.

[Vader]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So what youre saying is theyre just saying hes a WLB, not just a LB but a weak side LB why?  Because its another position they ac totally believe adds nothing to a D, we really only need to deploy 9 or fewer players, SS is useless, WLB is useless. 

They dont even know what a SS is, you want to give them credit for the WLB line? 

No, what I am saying is people are locked into their positions and talking points.

”Weak Side” Jamal = “Sleepy” Joe 

I think Jamal is a good DB, he just hasn’t shown the “hands” yet. He’s had quite a few dropped INTs even though we have seen him cover Gronk and others successfully. GW is so confident in him actually that in coverages he has had Adams cover WRs — I saw one game he had Hopkins v Houston. Ball didn’t come his way but still.

[Vader]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He was deployed as a traditional SS his first 2 years and collected 1 INT.

His hands suck and he’s a very average athlete. So, no, it’s not just his role impacting his INT count.

Moreover, GW knows this. Hence why he used him like he did last year.

 

Adams almost exclusively played a weak side traditional safety position on 3rd down "coverage downs" last year, an obvious passing down...

[Larz]

4 hours ago, slats said:

You don't make that trade without coming to terms with Judon first. 

Personally, I'd rather get Gallup from Dallas. 

What makes him worth a mega deal and not Adams? 

[Larz]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I would rather give $17 mil per to a proven pass rushing edge player than a strong safety with no ball production. This is true

Then why the extra 2 draft picks Tomshame?

herp a derp lol

[slats]

36 minutes ago, Larz said:

What makes him worth a mega deal and not Adams? 

I’m not advocating trading for Judon, but the argument would be positional value. 

[Larz]

1 minute ago, slats said:

I’m not advocating trading for Judon, but the argument would be positional value. 

Then why trade judon and 2 picks for Adams?

[Big_Slick]

8 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Sure, that's what Jamal and his personality says to you, that hes afraid of a running QB so he sat out that game?  He strikes you as a player who runs from a challenge?  Because you just felt like making up a story as ridiculous as some of the other Jamal stories here.

He also was afraid to play against the Dolphins a week later.  Fitz would have made him look silly too.

Any other stories you want to make up?  Because the faking an injury line of BS is sad on so many levels.

Get your facts straight. He sat out against the Dolphins and then he decided to sit out the next game - a Nationally televised game against the Ravens. But after a miraculous recovery the following game against the Steelers he had 8 tackles ( zero sacks and zero passes defended).

[slats]

53 minutes ago, Larz said:

Then why trade judon and 2 picks for Adams?

Dude, as I said, not my argument. I’m open to the best offer. This isn’t the tree I’d be sniffing. 

[Larz]

42 minutes ago, slats said:

Dude, as I said, not my argument. I’m open to the best offer. This isn’t the tree I’d be sniffing. 

It kinda represents the sojf thing tho. A jet is automatically not as valuable as other players 

a lot of Jets fans can’t balance Adams value with reality. 
 

what position does Adams play anyway?

corner? Linebacker? Secondary?

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Then why trade judon and 2 picks for Adams?

As I said early on, Baltimore isn’t trading for Jamal Adams. The Cowboys are the only team dumb enough to do something like that

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Big_Slick said:

Get your facts straight. He sat out against the Dolphins and then he decided to sit out the next game - a Nationally televised game against the Ravens. But after a miraculous recovery the following game against the Steelers he had 8 tackles ( zero sacks and zero passes defended).

Should also be noted that the Jets held the Dolphins without a TD after getting torched in their first game, and the Ravens loss was arguably the most cohesive, highest intensity game the Jets played all year. 

[HawkeyeJet]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He was deployed as a traditional SS his first 2 years and collected 1 INT.

His hands suck and he’s a very average athlete. So, no, it’s not just his role impacting his INT count.

Moreover, GW knows this. Hence why he used him like he did last year.

 

I don't believe that 1st part is accurate.  He blitzed 71 times in 2018, and 90 last year.  That's the only years pro football reference charts for that metric.  I didn't look at every Strong Safety in the NFL, but looked at at least 10 and looked at all the other top end players at that position and not a single one reached 71 blitzes when combining his 18 and 19 totals. I think only 1 exceeded 60.  There are many Strong Safeties that don't blitz 20 times in a given season. 

I do agree that he has bad hands, but this notion that his athleticism is part of the issue is a bit perplexing to me.  I often see people say he's not Ed Reed or Sean Taylor or even Honey Badger as a player, especially statistically.  That may be true, but athleticism isn't the reason.  All of those guys tested very similarly to Adams.  

No one is going to change your view point on Adams and that's fine.  I'm not even necessarily trying to change anyone's opinion of his importance, but I do think the notion he has ever played the "traditional" SS role is inaccurate.  I'm not saying if you let him sit back in coverage all day he'd be pulling down INTs at the rate of Ed Reed or whoever else, but I do think his role impacts his traditional stat line probably more than his athleticism does.

[T0mShane]

13 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I don't believe that 1st part is accurate.  He blitzed 71 times in 2018, and 90 last year.  That's the only years pro football reference charts for that metric.  I didn't look at every Strong Safety in the NFL, but looked at at least 10 and looked at all the other top end players at that position and not a single one reached 71 blitzes when combining his 18 and 19 totals. I think only 1 exceeded 60.  There are many Strong Safeties that don't blitz 20 times in a given season. 

I do agree that he has bad hands, but this notion that his athleticism is part of the issue is a bit perplexing to me.  I often see people say he's not Ed Reed or Sean Taylor or even Honey Badger as a player, especially statistically.  That may be true, but athleticism isn't the reason.  All of those guys tested very similarly to Adams.  

No one is going to change your view point on Adams and that's fine.  I'm not even necessarily trying to change anyone's opinion of his importance, but I do think the notion he has ever played the "traditional" SS role is inaccurate.  I'm not saying if you let him sit back in coverage all day he'd be pulling down INTs at the rate of Ed Reed or whoever else, but I do think his role impacts his traditional stat line probably more than his athleticism does.

I think the issue is that Jamal Adams has been the same player he’s been all the way back through LSU, where he had 14 PDs in 36 starts, with five career INTs (against the likes of Western Michigan, Arkansas, and Western Kentucky, to boot). There are some DBs who just have poor ball skills, and Jamal is one of those. It doesn’t make them bad players, per se, but it precludes them from ever becoming high turnover guys.

As to his athleticism, it’s poor relative to where he was drafted. Usually when you’re burning top picks on safeties, it’s because they run like corners. Eric Berry, Polamalu, Ed Reed were all 4.3, low 4.4 guys. Jamal was a 4.5 guy who can’t jump and that shows when he’s asked to turn and run with receivers. He doesn’t have great range or change of direction, but is good enough to run into the line and chase down backs, which is what he does well. I think if he was asked to be a traditional safety who isn’t blitzing 90 times, you would never, ever get a return on the original investment, and you’d be especially burned if you gave him $90 million dollars. 

[HawkeyeJet]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the issue is that Jamal Adams has been the same player he’s been all the way back through LSU, where he had 14 PDs in 36 starts, with five career INTs (against the likes of Western Michigan, Arkansas, and Western Kentucky, to boot). There are some DBs who just have poor ball skills, and Jamal is one of those. It doesn’t make them bad players, per se, but it precludes them from ever becoming a high turnover guy.

As to his athleticism, it’s poor relative to where he was drafted. Usually when you’re burning top picks on safeties, it’s because they run like corners. Eric Berry, Polamalu, Ed Reed were all 4.3, low 4.4 guys. Jamal was a 4.5 guy who can’t jump and that shows when he’s asked to turn and run with receivers. He doesn’t have great range or change of direction, but is good enough to run into the line and chase down backs, which is what he does well. I think if he was asked to be a traditional safety who isn’t blitzing 90 times, you would never, ever get a return on the original investment, and you’d be especially burned if you gave him $90 million dollars. 

That's fair.  His in air ball tracking seems to be an issue, I can get on board with that.  Some of that, in my opinion, is because he seems to want to light someone up given the choice of that or going for a 50/50 ball.  I think his default setting is attack the player rather then the ball.  He obviously prides himself on his physicality, so I suppose I shouldn't assume that would ever change even if he was asked to do something differently.  FWIW I think Ed Reed ran a 4.57 forty.

I have my reservations about paying Adams as well.  It's certainly not on the first page of roster building 101.  But there are many ways to skin a cat, as they say.  I'm more worried about his desire to be a cog in a prolonged turnaround.  It's obvious he wants to win.  Most people want to.  I don't necessarily see him caring much about building something though.  I don't even know if that makes any sense.  I just think he's a very good player who doesn't get the credit he deserves, but part of that is his own doing because he's an abrasive personality.

Gun to my head, I don't think I'd pay him just because I don't think he's committed to turning things around.  I wouldn't have thought that would be an issue 2 years ago.  

He's got that Kevin Durant vibe to me.  He wants to win just so he can put that check mark on his personal resume.  

[T0mShane]

39 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

That's fair.  His in air ball tracking seems to be an issue, I can get on board with that.  Some of that, in my opinion, is because he seems to want to light someone up given the choice of that or going for a 50/50 ball.  I think his default setting is attack the player rather then the ball.  He obviously prides himself on his physicality, so I suppose I shouldn't assume that would ever change even if he was asked to do something differently.  FWIW I think Ed Reed ran a 4.57 forty.

I have my reservations about paying Adams as well.  It's certainly not on the first page of roster building 101.  But there are many ways to skin a cat, as they say.  I'm more worried about his desire to be a cog in a prolonged turnaround.  It's obvious he wants to win.  Most people want to.  I don't necessarily see him caring much about building something though.  I don't even know if that makes any sense.  I just think he's a very good player who doesn't get the credit he deserves, but part of that is his own doing because he's an abrasive personality.

Gun to my head, I don't think I'd pay him just because I don't think he's committed to turning things around.  I wouldn't have thought that would be an issue 2 years ago.  

He's got that Kevin Durant vibe to me.  He wants to win just so he can put that check mark on his personal resume.  

You’re right about Ed Reed. I was thinking of Earl Thomas. Personally, I think Jamal is a fine player, but I’d have preferred the potential picks I’d glean in any trade for him. In his own draft class, there were about ten guys drafted after him that are unquestionably better, and if we accepted the lowball offer from the Cowboys last year, we have Mekhi Becton and CeeDee Lamb today. Failing at that, the choice now is signing him to a monster deal or taking what is probably a lower return in trade as we move forward. As you said, it’s hard to see how a guy like this fits into a rebuild situation, especially after you make him rich. IMO, he’s a lot closer to JR Smith than he is to Durant. At least Durant is legitimately great.

[Larz]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

As I said early on, Baltimore isn’t trading for Jamal Adams. The Cowboys are the only team dumb enough to do something like that

You suggested  a pro bowl player making $17,000,000 plus 2 draft picks. 
 

so what kind of contract does Adams  deserve?  $20,000,000 ?

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

You suggested  a pro bowl player making $17,000,000 plus 2 draft picks. 
 

so what kind of contract does Adams  deserve?  $20,000,000 ?

Scroll up Larz. You badgered me for seven posts to imagine an offer the Ravens would hypothetically proffer the Jets for Adams and I gave you—after saying repeatedly that the Ravens don’t need Adams—Judon, a two, and a conditional later pick. The Ravens have Tyus Bowser and Jaylon Ferguson already on the roster to take Judon’s spot if they wanted to move him, so it’d basically be a salary dump for them. So, yes, even in hypotheticals, Jamal is getting marked down like a VHS player at Sam Goody

[SAR I]

I'm tired of seeing this thread at the top of the JN heap; can someone make this trade happen already?  Or not?

SAR I

[14 in Green]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

You’re right about Ed Reed. I was thinking of Earl Thomas. Personally, I think Jamal is a fine player, but I’d have preferred the potential picks I’d glean in any trade for him. In his own draft class, there were about ten guys drafted after him that are unquestionably better, and if we accepted the lowball offer from the Cowboys last year, we have Mekhi Becton and CeeDee Lamb today. Failing at that, the choice now is signing him to a monster deal or taking what is probably a lower return in trade as we move forward. As you said, it’s hard to see how a guy like this fits into a rebuild situation, especially after you make him rich. IMO, he’s a lot closer to JR Smith than he is to Durant. At least Durant is legitimately great.

I'm one of those who would be okay with the Jets making Adams the highest paid Safety after NEXT year, as long as he performs the way he has the last three. As good as I think he is though, I wouldn't be upset if the Jets traded him. I go back and forth on what's fair though. A first round pick is a given, but I think we need to get back at least another high end starter, or no worse then a two and one more pick. The problem is I don't think there's a chance that happens.

 I agree with what you said about trading him last year, we probably should have done it if the offer was fair because now its either the monster deal or a lower return. Given that, it would seem Douglas made a huge mistake not getting it done at the right time. I'm sure 80 agrees, yet I've never seen either of you rip Douglas for it. He's put the team in a place where most of us only see things getting more toxic, as he digs in and Jamal most likely acts out.

Why is it Douglas gets a pass here?

[Bugg]

27 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm tired of seeing this thread at the top of the JN heap; can someone make this trade happen already?  Or not?

SAR I

Adams' agent is not a GM of the Jets nor any other team. 

[T0mShane]

23 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Why is it Douglas gets a pass here?

I suppose it’s because the book isn’t closed on this part yet. We have to see if Douglas gets a deal done or if he gets a trade sorted out, then we can judge it. Maccagnan would have given Adams CB1 money already.

[14 in Green]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Maccagnan would have given Adams CB1 money already.

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

 

[14 in Green]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

 

Speaking of buddies.... Wassup Joe? How've you been?

Is the back feeling any better?

[joewilly12]

9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Speaking of buddies.... Wassup Joe? How've you been?

Is the back feeling any better?

I had to have more surgery.......................long story. 

[JTJet]

13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

 

This is Ed Gacy level creepy. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, JTJet said:

This is Ed Gacy level creepy. 

All I could find searched "buddy bench".

No harm no foul intent meant. 

[Big_Slick]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I had to have more surgery.......................long story. 

Hang in there .... you don't want to miss Sam, Gase and JD lead the Jets to another SB victory.

Seriously - best wishes for a full recovery.

[14 in Green]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

I had to have more surgery.......................long story. 

 

Just now, Big_Slick said:

Hang in there .... you don't want to miss Sam, Gase and JD lead the Jets to another SB victory.

Seriously - best wishes for a full recovery.

Ditto.

All the best Joe, we miss you around here. Don't be such a stranger.

[MindOverMatter]

33 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I had to have more surgery.......................long story. 

Hope your feeling better man

[Larz]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Scroll up Larz. You badgered me for seven posts to imagine an offer the Ravens would hypothetically proffer the Jets for Adams and I gave you—after saying repeatedly that the Ravens don’t need Adams—Judon, a two, and a conditional later pick. The Ravens have Tyus Bowser and Jaylon Ferguson already on the roster to take Judon’s spot if they wanted to move him, so it’d basically be a salary dump for them. So, yes, even in hypotheticals, Jamal is getting marked down like a VHS player at Sam Goody

Why then did the ravens tag him and then sign judon?

weird, right?

even you don’t believe your own bs lol

Thanks for going on record that Adams is worth significantly more than a pro bowl pass rusher 

Might have to put that in my sig

[Big_Slick]

6 minutes ago, Larz said:

Why then did the ravens tag him and then sign judon?

weird, right?

even you don’t believe your own bs lol

Thanks for going on record that Adams is worth significantly more than a pro bowl pass rusher 

Might have to put that in my sig

Dude, I don't think that's what he's saying. If you think JA is worth as much as a pro bowl edge then please let me know where I can get some of that weed you're smoking?.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

This is Ed Gacy level creepy. 

Did someone call me?

[EM31]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

I had to have more surgery.......................long story. 

Me too (wishing you a full recovery)