Report: Ravens in trade discussions for Jamal Adams

[Losmeister]

8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Maybe.

I don't like speculating on how seriously someone is injured. If a guy is ruled out due to injury, I take it at face value until proven otherwise. We have no idea how hurt any of these guys are. 

Adams plays the game with a ton of energy and a reckless abandon, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

The (good) argument against Adams is that he plays a relatively unimportant position, not that he isn't a heck of a player. 

i feel ya, about maybe not wanting to question...  its almost like quyestioning a pro athletes manhood or something...  and obviously they are pro athletes, so who are we to judge, right? 

he'd be great if he forced more fumbles and had more INTs...      but he's very good...         just a friggin prima donna would overrates himself

comparing himself DPOY guys is absurd

[slimjasi]

Just now, Losmeister said:

he'd be great if he forced more fumbles and had more INTs...      but he's very good...         just a friggin prima donna would overrates himself

comparing himself DPOY guys is absurd

Right. 

He's silly. 

[MindOverMatter]

32 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

just thinking out loud ........but how "significant" is an injury that keeps you out fewer than 2 weeks?

Exactly. If that was a playoff game, Jamal sits out with a sprained ankle?

Absolutely not.

Lmao, give me a break. Wrap that sh*t up and go back to tackling people.

[EM31]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

Why does the lets cut this guy and not pay him the rest of his contract idea something that gets raised when it benefits the team?

Wrong answer.  The right to cut a player is negotiated into the original deal and in a larger sense into the umbrella CBA which controls the terms of the original deal.  The team pays for the right to cut a player with the signing bonus that cannot be clawed back except under extreme circumstances (Aaron Hernandez).

So cutting a player is not ripping up or renegotiating the original deal it is exercising an option that was paid for up front with a signing bonus. 

Not the same thing at all as a player in the middle of a deal wanting to tear it up and negotiate a new one when it suits him.

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

Exactly. If that was a playoff game, Jamal sits out with a sprained ankle?

Absolutely not.

Lmao, give me a break. Wrap that sh*t up and go back to tackling people.

Sadly, this post reminds me of John Abraham. 

The guy had such great talent and was such a good player for us when healthy, but he always seemed to be hurt when we needed him the most. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I think this is a very fair stance 

I didn't say (nor do I think) it's an unfair stance. I just don't think the difference between Adams and a replacement safety - with a DC who's supposed to be this great mind - is worth $17MM+ per year plus the cheap, high draft picks we're further turning down.

Truth is his is just an easier position to adequately fill.

Would I take just a first alone? Probably, but then it also depends what slot number is expected. Is it the Redskins' or Bengals' 1st round pick or the Ravens' 1st rounder? One of the former can be parlayed into 3 picks with the value of the Ravens' expected 1st rounder. Late in that round, if we had two 1st rounders and no Adams, I don't think I'd be up in arms over drafting a safety (accompanying jokes aside), so at that point it'd just be about the money. 

Passing up on a (likely) mid- or higher-1st rounder plus another day 1 pick (even if they're 2021 picks not 2020)? No way I'm keeping a freaking run-stopping & blitzing safety instead of one outstanding prospect, another very good prospect, plus another established 8-figure/year veteran. No way. If Douglas can't go at least 1-for-3 hitting paydirt then the truth is we were not winning anything anyway. If he hits on 2 of 3 we're ahead; hitting on all 3 would make keeping Adams look submoronic in comparison. 

But to each his own.

[MindOverMatter]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Sadly, this post reminds me of John Abraham. 

The guy had such great talent and was such a good player for us when healthy, but he always seemed to be hurt when we needed him the most. 

I don't think Adams is like Abraham in that regard. Adams seems like he is tougher and loves the game more.

But who knows anymore, i just don't want to worry about him being "upset" during the season with no new contract if he's still on the team. Don't want that being a distraction.

[Losmeister]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Right. 

He's silly. 

end of 2018..  lasyt game v Pats and we're getting curbstomped late in the 3rd q and he's celebrating making a run stop on 2nd down whne were down by like-28-3...     i was LOL 

 

[David Harris]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The fear of who you MIGHT draft should never be a top reason for avoiding making a trade for picks.  The first JD draft looked very good, with sound logic behind every pick he made.  I'm fully confident with the idea of giving him more picks to use.

More picks for JD + the more cap space are a far better end result than caving to Adams' exceedingly high demands, no matter how you slice it. 

That trade doesn't absolutely have to happen now or at this season's trade deadline.  But something will have to give eventually, and it won't be JD who opts to open up the checkbook.  Nothing he's done to date suggests he'd do that.  And nor should he in this instance.

JD doesn't want more picks.  He wants Jamal Adams in green and white forever.

He's the one saying he wants Adams to be a Jet for life.  

[NYJ1]

If there's any truth to these trade negotiations one thing is abundantly clear....

This trade will ultimately decide Douglas' fate in NY. If the Jets trade their best player, and Joe Douglas goes out and squanders the picks? He's as good as gone. Even if he gets two 1st rounders for Adams, odds are he'll never get in return what Jamal is worth to the team. He has a VERY slim margin for success.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I didn't say (nor do I think) it's an unfair stance. I just don't think the difference between Adams and a replacement safety - with a DC who's supposed to be this great mind - is worth $17MM+ per year plus the cheap, high draft picks we're further turning down.

Truth is his is just an easier position to adequately fill.

Would I take just a first alone? Probably, but then it also depends what slot number is expected. Is it the Redskins' or Bengals' 1st round pick or the Ravens' 1st rounder? One of the former can be parlayed into 3 picks with the value of the Ravens' expected 1st rounder. Late in that round, if we had two 1st rounders and no Adams, I don't think I'd be up in arms over drafting a safety (accompanying jokes aside), so at that point it'd just be about the money. 

Passing up on a (likely) mid- or higher-1st rounder plus another day 1 pick (even if they're 2021 picks not 2020)? No way I'm keeping a freaking run-stopping & blitzing safety instead of one outstanding prospect, another very good prospect, plus another established 8-figure/year veteran. No way. If Douglas can't go at least 1-for-3 hitting paydirt then the truth is we were not winning anything anyway. If he hits on 2 of 3 we're ahead; hitting on all 3 would make keeping Adams look submoronic in comparison. 

But to each his own.

You are talking to the wrong guy. I mostly agree with you and I completely agree with the bolded. 

My current plan with Adams would be to try and have a good year with him next year and try to renegotiate a (fair) deal with him afterwards. Since it sounds like he isn't interested in a fair deal, I would expect to be trading him sometime after next season. 

I think the Jets are in a good position right now - they don't have to do anything. He's very unlikely to hold out, so they still get another year to try and have one competitive season with their all-pro safety, and if he still wants some crazy amount of money after that (he will), they can move on from him then. 

If I am trading him now, I want a slightly bigger package than you, but that's a minor point. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, David Harris said:

JD doesn't want more picks.  He wants Jamal Adams in green and white forever.

He's the one saying he wants Adams to be a Jet for life.  

Sure.  And everything GM's say is them being 100 % honest all the time.

I'm sure he would like to re-sign Adams.  At a certain price point.  Let's say.....$14-15M per.  If Adams is demanding more....say, $17-18M per.....and not budging, JD won't be the one to cave in.  

[Prez33]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Because only one is a QB superstar who changes everything and just won a Super Bowl

One is a Strong Safety dressed up as an average EDGE rusher who has yet to have a .500 season.

Jamal Adams is part of the reason the Jets have been under .500? 
 

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

If there's any truth to these trade negotiations one thing is abundantly clear....

This trade will ultimately decide Douglas' fate in NY. If the Jets trade their best player, and Joe Douglas goes out and squanders the picks? He's as good as gone. Even if he gets two 1st rounders for Adams, odds are he'll never get in return what Jamal is worth to the team. He has a VERY slim margin for success.

 

None of that is "abundantly clear".  And it ignores that Douglas will have an additional use for trading Adams:  I.E. not spending $15-18M per on a SS and using that money for 1-3 other key pieces.  

[Prez33]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah a box safety who creates no turnovers on a 5 or 6 win team is as valuable as the guy we passed on who is the best player in the league in the most important position in the league.

Adams, Brady, Mahommes and Aaron Donald, the mount rushmore of difference makers.

I never said he was “as valuable”. I said they’re both All Pro players and arguably the best players on their respect teams. 
 

Mahomes get the Royal treatment, as he should. But Adams is an overrated crybaby according to those who want him gone. I get it. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

Jamal Adams is part of the reason the Jets have been under .500? 

Perhaps not.  But at the same time, he isn't a significant part of the solution for getting the Jets OVER .500, either.

Spending money on one of these guys next offseason instead (all scheduled free agents)?  Now that might help get the franchise over the hump:

• Chris Godwin
• T.Y. Hilton
• Keenan Allen
• Juju Smith-Schuster
• Allen Robinson
• Kenny Golladay
• Cooper Kupp

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

Jamal Adams is part of the reason the Jets have been under .500? 

He hasn't led us to be better than .500.

Listen, you like him (or are him for all I know), great.  He is a great Strong Safety.

Personally, I value other positions much more, and think those positions are the spots that move the needle on wins and losses.

I've asked it repeatedly, what is the Jets Record the last two years if we sub out Adams and replace him with an average Safety.

The answer:  exactly the same as it was.  At least IMO.  If you don't agree, great.

 

[Big_Slick]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying there's a difference between playing through pain and playing through injury.  And there's also a way to behave while you're missing a game and your teammates are out there battling.  And it's not to tweet passive aggressively in such a way that you're essentially bashing your teammates while you sit at home.  

Only the player knows for sure if he can go or not. The fact that he chose to sit out against the Ravens and Lamar Jackson when a run stuffing box safety could have come up big or make him look real bad had to have entered Adam's mind in the decision making process.

[JetPotato]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He hasn't led us to be better than .500.

Listen, you like him (or are him for all I know), great.  He is a great Strong Safety.

Personally, I value other positions much more, and think those positions are the spots that move the needle on wins and losses.

I've asked it repeatedly, what is the Jets Record the last two years if we sub out Adams and replace him with an average Safety.

The answer:  exactly the same as it was.  At least IMO.  If you don't agree, great.

 

I think 1 less win.

But point is clear. He's not a massive game changing player that you invest huge money in. You just don't.

[slimjasi]

16 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

Jamal Adams is part of the reason the Jets have been under .500? 
 

 

No, but he hasn't been a reason for them to be better than .500, so why should they pay him like he has? If there was no hard cap, the Jets could afford to just shut up and pay him. But, with a hard cap, you have to worry about resource allocation. It's really as simple as that. 

Again, he's really good, but he's replaceable. 

To put it another way, if someone from the future came up to you and told you that Adams was going to be the best player in the NFL at his position in 2020 - would that appreciably change your W/L prediction for the team? Now, what if I gave you the same scenario with our starting left tackle? Our QB? Our corners?

Notice that Adams is currently a better player at his position than any of those other guys are at their respective positions, and yet, I would assume you agree that they all have a much larger impact on our record. 

It's not about how good Adams is, it's about how important he is. 

[Prez33]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He hasn't led us to be better than .500.

Listen, you like him (or are him for all I know), great.  He is a great Strong Safety.

Personally, I value other positions much more, and think those positions are the spots that move the needle on wins and losses.

I've asked it repeatedly, what is the Jets Record the last two years if we sub out Adams and replace him with an average Safety.

The answer:  exactly the same as it was.  At least IMO.  If you don't agree, great.

 

I maintain that good teams are built over the course of 3-5 years. That means getting some great players like Adams along the way. You can’t put gold in the middle of a garbage pile and expect people to take notice. Start surrounding him with better players and that D’s looking legit. 
 

 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

I maintain that good teams are built over the course of 3-5 years. That means getting some great players like Adams along the way. You can’t put gold in the middle of a garbage pile and expect people to take notice. Start surrounding him with better players and that D’s looking legit. 

How will we be able to afford quality players with Mosley and Adams combining to suck up about $35M per year in cap dollars?

Pay Jamal and the D would have to survive with what they have plus a few mid-round types.  Trade Jamal and we can surround Mosley with cheap, quality young talent via the draft, PLUS a FA signing or 2.

[slimjasi]

30 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

I don't think Adams is like Abraham in that regard. Adams seems like he is tougher and loves the game more.

But who knows anymore, i just don't want to worry about him being "upset" during the season with no new contract if he's still on the team. Don't want that being a distraction.

Yes, there is no pattern of nagging injuries and missing big games with Adams. 

Then again, we haven't really played in any big games since Adams has been here. 

If he is a legit distraction, you trade him for the best package you can get. 

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How will we be able to afford quality players with Mosley and Adams combining to suck up about $35M per year in cap dollars?

Pay Jamal and the D would have to survive with what they have.  Trade Jamal and we can surround Mosley with cheap, quality young talent via the draft.

interesting to read their repsective stat lines for the 1st 3 yrs

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoslC.00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamJa00.htm

Cj slight edge in cmb and solo tackles

JA edges out Pds 25/23

JA has 5 more sacks, CJ has 4 more INT

As of now, JA is the quality, cheap, young drafted talent. Shrug.

[Sperm Edwards]

25 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You are talking to the wrong guy. I mostly agree with you and I completely agree with the bolded. 

My current plan with Adams would be to try and have a good year with him next year and try to renegotiate a (fair) deal with him afterwards. Since it sounds like he isn't interested in a fair deal, I would expect to be trading him sometime after next season. 

I think the Jets are in a good position right now - they don't have to do anything. He's very unlikely to hold out, so they still get another year to try and have one competitive season with their all-pro safety, and if he still wants some crazy amount of money after that (he will), they can move on from him then. 

If I am trading him now, I want a slightly bigger package than you, but that's a minor point. 

Oh I definitely want a bigger package - hey now! - but I'm not walking away from an expected mid-1st + a 3rd.

If it's a likely top 5-10-ish pick (never mind whatever actually happens; it's an educated guess) I'm not going to nitpick about not also getting a 3rd rounder, since that's recouped so easily by an insignificant trade-down of ~2 slots.

Never mind starting up that high can be turned into a pair of 1s (or the value of a pair of 1s) if you trade down enough. Go down from one of our recent #6 slots to that #17 pick Dallas just had, and theoretically there should be enough change leftover for another pick at #25 or so (though it may come in the form of lower picks we pool to move back up to #25; same difference).

If there are multiple QBs projected near that acquired slot, the payoff will be substantially more. 

[Sperm Edwards]

31 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yes, there is no pattern of nagging injuries and missing big games with Adams. 

Then again, we haven't really played in any big games since Adams has been here. 

If he is a legit distraction, you trade him for the best package you can get. 

There was no pattern for Mosley either. Nor any number of others.

It happens when it happens; you don't always get warnings first.

Agree otherwise.

[slimjasi]

49 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Oh I definitely want a bigger package - hey now! - but I'm not walking away from an expected mid-1st + a 3rd.

If it's a likely top 5-10-ish pick (never mind whatever actually happens; it's an educated guess) I'm not going to nitpick about not also getting a 3rd rounder, since that's recouped so easily by an insignificant trade-down of ~2 slots.

Never mind starting up that high can be turned into a pair of 1s (or the value of a pair of 1s) if you trade down enough. Go down from one of our recent #6 slots to that #17 pick Dallas just had, and theoretically there should be enough change leftover for another pick at #25 or so (though it may come in the form of lower picks we pool to move back up to #25; same difference).

If there are multiple QBs projected near that acquired slot, the payoff will be substantially more. 

I agree, it really depends a lot on who we trade him to. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Prez33 said:

Mahomes get the Royal treatment, as he should. But Adams is an overrated crybaby according to those who want him gone. I get it. 

The Chiefs approached Mahomes because they know for a fact right now that they want him at QB forever and he’s going to cost a boatload of money. Money they’re prepared to spend. By doing it two years early, they can spread the huge signing bonus he’s going to get over two extra years. Mahomes has also publicly said the right things, talking about understanding the salary cap and not wanting to hurt the team. Much, much different than your guy here creating all of this pay me or trade me bull****. 

The Jets have zero incentive to pay him early. There’s no benefit, only added risk. And Adams has no recourse under the current CBA. This media show is all he can do, and it has no teeth. He can huff and puff, but at the end of the day it’s gonna be play or don’t get paid. 

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, slats said:

The Chiefs approached Mahomes because they know for a fact right now that they want him at QB forever and he’s going to cost a boatload of money. Money they’re prepared to spend. By doing it two years early, they can spread the huge signing bonus he’s going to get over two extra years. Mahomes has also publicly said the right things, talking about understanding the salary cap and not wanting to hurt the team. Much, much different than your guy here creating all of this pay me or trade me bull****. 

The Jets have zero incentive to pay him early. There’s no benefit, only added risk. And Adams has no recourse under the current CBA. This media show is all he can do, and it has no teeth. He can huff and puff, but at the end of the day it’s gonna be play or don’t get paid. 

We would have also accepted, "He can huff and puff, but at the end of the day our house is made of bricks."

[Sperm Edwards]

23 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I agree, it really depends a lot on how who we trade him to. 

Yep, but apparently the potential all this leads to falls short of how much of an upgrade Adams is over his replacement strong safety. 

Lost in all this is that for all we know we'll find a more than adequate replacement from next year's 4th-7th round pick, or even in an UDFA or some other reasonably-priced FA.

It's not as though team after team is worried to the tune of, "omg omg omg how on earth will we find a strong safety? A decent one comes out of college like almost never, and when they do they're gone after the first handful of draft picks so you have to time your sucky season just right! After that they never hit free agency. Why bother competing?"

[Jetsfan80]

32 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We would have also accepted, "He can huff and puff, but at the end of the day our house is made of bricks."

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, Prez33 said:

I maintain that good teams are built over the course of 3-5 years. That means getting some great players like Adams along the way. You can’t put gold in the middle of a garbage pile and expect people to take notice. Start surrounding him with better players and that D’s looking legit. 
 

 

You don't win by surrounding a Strong Safety with talent.

You win by surrounding a Franchise QB with talent.

JMO.

[Prez33]

5 hours ago, slats said:

The Chiefs approached Mahomes because they know for a fact right now that they want him at QB forever and he’s going to cost a boatload of money. Money they’re prepared to spend. By doing it two years early, they can spread the huge signing bonus he’s going to get over two extra years. Mahomes has also publicly said the right things, talking about understanding the salary cap and not wanting to hurt the team. Much, much different than your guy here creating all of this pay me or trade me bull****. 

The Jets have zero incentive to pay him early. There’s no benefit, only added risk. And Adams has no recourse under the current CBA. This media show is all he can do, and it has no teeth. He can huff and puff, but at the end of the day it’s gonna be play or don’t get paid. 

Now he’s “my guy” because of a Prez33 handle on a fan site?  My world doesn’t change one bit based on the Jamal Adams saga. I think the Jets are stupid for letting this guy linger on a vastly underpaid contract, but the Jets will go forward, and Jamal Adams will continue to kick ass wherever else he goes.  No skin off my back. 

[Big_Slick]

36 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

Now he’s “my guy” because of a Prez33 handle on a fan site?  My world doesn’t change one bit based on the Jamal Adams saga. I think the Jets are stupid for letting this guy linger on a vastly underpaid contract, but the Jets will go forward, and Jamal Adams will continue to kick ass wherever else he goes.  No skin off my back. 

Is it a coincidence that your handle is prez33? You're not Jamal because you can put a few coherent sentences together, but you could be his agent or one of his employees. His union negotiated the contract Jamal signed. Let Jamal take it up with them or be fined $40K a day if he holds out.

[Integrity28]

55 minutes ago, Prez33 said:

Now he’s “my guy” because of a Prez33 handle on a fan site?  My world doesn’t change one bit based on the Jamal Adams saga. I think the Jets are stupid for letting this guy linger on a vastly underpaid contract, but the Jets will go forward, and Jamal Adams will continue to kick ass wherever else he goes.  No skin off my back. 

Jamal, you soft.