Jamal Adams ranked #1 in ESPNs top 10 Safteys

[TNJet]

12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Good yes.

Good safety yes.

Good in the box safety yes.

A guy that moves he needle?  No.

A guy that is going to be paid far more than he is worth?  Yes

A guy that is a royal pain in the ass and has a questionable attitude?  Yes.

No one, even his biggest critics disputes him being a good in the box safety.

 

Covers as good as Maye hell no...

[GreekJet]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I agree on the no-brain part:

Paying Adams his purported demands of “well over $20MM” ($22-23MM?) now and 

Bypassing whatever trade value he has for that privilege and

Realizing there is no monetary benefit for getting him locked up early — the cost of waiting to lock him up in a year or two (or even three) will not significantly rise above his current, silly demand number and

Realizing the cap ceiling may drop by as much as 25% ($60MM) in 2021, plus possibly some 8-figure amount in 2022 if COVID is still a significant issue, and

While, they’ve already got him locked in for $13MM over the upcoming 2 seasons combined, followed by 2 more franchise tag seasons that would average millions less than $20MM/year...

Yes I agree that extending him now, at anywhere near his ~$22MM-ish demands = a display of no brains.  

Answer my question what are the Jets going to do with the cap space?

Have you guys ever seen that Family Guy episode in which Peter Griffin is offered a boat or the mystery box? “a boats a boat, but the mystery box could be anything, it can even be a boat”. 

Outside of potentially Darnold and Adams there isn’t one player the Jets need to pay big bucks to anytime soon, and most of the bad free agent signings will be off the books next year (outside of Mosley and possibly Enunwa). It’s also incredibly risky to trade Adams for a single first round pick given the teams draft record over the years. The safe play is to re-sign him and keep him with the organization for his prime. 

I agree with you in the sense that if you can get ridiculous trade value for him (multiple first round picks or the equivalent of that) you pull the trigger. However I’d also be thrilled if the Jets just locked him up and the team had a blue chip defensive player on the books for the next five years. 

Also the cap is not going to drop that much. The players union will go nuts on owners who are getting another revenue stream here with sports betting.

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, Beerfish said:

1. A guy that moves he needle?  No.

2. A guy that is going to be paid far more than he is worth?  Yes

3. A guy that is a royal pain in the ass and has a questionable attitude?  Yes.

4. No one, even his biggest critics disputes him being a good in the box safety.

 

1.  Wrong.

2. Says who?  You?  

3. Wrong, no one gives a shlt about his tweets.  He plays hard, gives 100% and is a weapon that Williams c an use in a wide variety of ways and is a team leader.  Its why he was put on the top of this list by NFL execs.  Why are NFL exes wrong and youre right?  

4. Really embarrassing yourself with this one

[Jackie Treehorn]

Don’t know if you guys care about this at all, you’re such badasses. But I found this safety ranking on CBS: https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-top-10-safeties-cornerbacks-in-nfl-marcus-peters-lands-redemption-tyrann-mathieu-steals-the/amp/

“3. Jamal Adams, Jets

Adams wants to be the highest-paid safety in NFL history, and he deserves it.

Those who label Adams simply a box safety are either not paying attention or watching Jets games with their back turned to the television, because he's so much more than his positional label. Adams covers with the best of them, and actually better than most of the best of them. Yes, because he's mostly tasked with operating in the box, you won't see gawdy INT numbers; but that's not the whole story of Adams as he tries desperately to lead a mostly unsuccessful and constantly changing Jets team. The former sixth-overall pick (2017) has already earned two Pro Bowl and All-Pro honors in only three seasons of service, earned by racking up 25 pass deflections and 273 (!!) combined tackles since entering the league, both contrasting tidbits displaying an equal ability to both cover and deliver play-ending hits -- the latter being as roaming defensive back or one who assists in run support.”

[bitonti]

The choice is not between paying Jamal Adams and paying Julio Jones

The choice is between Adams and not Adams.

Jets Fans have made this false equivalence since Revis.

The problem is that truly great players don't get to fa

Adams is a truly great player... If/when he leaves they are not going to give that 20 per to someone else. It's just open cap

I don't know why it's so hard for so many Adams fans to accept that he's still just a Strong Safety.
It like they don't understand what the premium positions are in the NFL and care more about having a "star" than about winning.
An above average O-lineman and above average WR is worth more to winning than the best box-playing Strong Safety that has ever played in the NFL.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[bitonti]

He's not.

Jets Fans overrate darnold and under-rate Adams

One of these players is a multiple all pro best at their position the other hasn't made it through 16 games healthy yet.

the same ESPN who recently wrote an article saying Darnold was not good? So do we believe them now?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Jackie Treehorn said:

Don’t know if you guys care about this at all, you’re such badasses. But I found this safety ranking on CBS: https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-top-10-safeties-cornerbacks-in-nfl-marcus-peters-lands-redemption-tyrann-mathieu-steals-the/amp/

Those who label Adams simply a box safety are either not paying attention or watching Jets games with their back turned to the television, because he's so much more than his positional label. Adams covers with the best of them, and actually better than most of the best of them. Yes, because he's mostly tasked with operating in the box, you won't see gawdy INT numbers; but that's not the whole story of Adams as he tries desperately to lead a mostly unsuccessful and constantly changing Jets team. The former sixth-overall pick (2017) has already earned two Pro Bowl and All-Pro honors in only three seasons of service, earned by racking up 25 pass deflections and 273 (!!) combined tackles since entering the league, both contrasting tidbits displaying an equal ability to both cover and deliver play-ending hits -- the latter being as roaming defensive back or one who assists in run support.”

 

Pretty accurately describes some of his detractors here.

Lets see now, who blindly claims hes just a box safety in 99% of his posts?

 LOL

 

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The choice is not between paying Jamal Adams and paying Julio Jones

The choice is between Adams and not Adams.

Jets Fans have made this false equivalence since Revis.

The problem is that truly great players don't get to fa

Adams is a truly great player... If/when he leaves they are not going to give that 20 per to someone else. It's just open cap

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

He is not truly a great player.  A guy like Darrelle Revis was truly a great player that deserved to be paid as he was a difference maker.  Adams is not.

[bitonti]

The cap is not going to drop. The cba was just signed. The owners have no recourse to shrink the cap.

And watching teams like KC, CLE and Ten pay their stars, no one really thinks this is a possibility.

Except for the Jets fans looking for a reason to demonize the teams best player

I agree on the no-brain part:
Paying Adams his purported demands of “well over $20MM” ($22-23MM?) now and 
Bypassing whatever trade value he has for that privilege and
Realizing there is no monetary benefit for getting him locked up early — the cost of waiting to lock him up in a year or two (or even three) will not significantly rise above his current, silly demand number and
Realizing the cap ceiling may drop by as much as 25% ($60MM) in 2021, plus possibly some 8-figure amount in 2022 if COVID is still a significant issue, and
While, they’ve already got him locked in for $13MM over the upcoming 2 seasons combined, followed by 2 more franchise tag seasons that would average millions less than $20MM/year...
Yes I agree that extending him now, at anywhere near his ~$22MM-ish demands = a display of no brains.  

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[bitonti]

What do nfl executives know? Not like the dude in this thread who said the defense was good with Darryl Roberts at safety. They should give that genius a gm job he's clearly wasting his talents

Does anyone here read?  ESPN polled NFL executives and put together a list based on the average vote.  All they did was math, this isnt an ESPN writer's opinion.
NFL executives believe Adams is a top 3 safety in the league, and the average vote happened to turn out to have him as #1 overall.  Thats how the actual NFL values him, but sure - lets trade him for Michael Gallup and a 3rd round pick.

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[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He is not truly a great player.  A guy like Darrelle Revis was truly a great player that deserved to be paid as he was a difference maker.  Adams is not.

Whatever he is one thing is true

You have no idea or refuse to admit, how good he is.

 

[bitonti]

Why is this statement true?
Prove it.

The 30 nfl gms who filled out that survey and the writers who make the all pro team disagree. He's just as dominant as Revis

He is not truly a great player.  A guy like Darrelle Revis was truly a great player that deserved to be paid as he was a difference maker.  Adams is not.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Why is this statement true?
Prove it.

The 30 nfl gms who filled out that survey and the writers who make the all pro team disagree. He's just as dominant as Revis

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

30 NFL GMs and the all pro/pro bowl?  More importantly what did Daniel Jeremiah say?  LOL

 

 

[Biggs]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes but eventually the decision will come down to trading, paying, franchising, or allowing to walk in free agency.

Of those 4 choices, I prefer a trade, but only when we know what the value of 2021 picks will look like.

Eventually isn't now.  

[slats]

10 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

No, I would’ve liked to have seen more like those two.

I think another OL and WR would’ve helped more this year than a Punter and a backup QB.

Not to mention a safety, who although I’m rooting for him to work out was just a really ironic pick... Leo for a safety just strikes me as funny, sorry.

I’m not knocking those other picks, but we had more pressing needs, and I’m just pointing out they “weren’t about Sam.”

This is fan/troll speak, especially the bold. Having that high third rounder this year instead of a potential comp third rounder in 2021 allowed Douglas to take the top player on his board there. When "safety," was announced here before the pick was official, I was also also a little taken back hoping for more offense. But once you see who the player is, and see that he's probably now the only true FS on the team, a guy who's also capable of playing CB (a huge need heading into the draft), the pick starts to make a lot more sense. 

Jets drafted an OT and WR before going defense, and then took a RB who figures to see the field this year and a promising OL prospect that some are hoping becomes a rookie starter. 

The funniest thing about this post is that here you are, slamming Sam at every turn, complaining about drafting a mid-round QB... ? C'mon, man! Frankly, I didn't love it, either, but I'm still a big Darnold fan. I'm also capable of seeing the value in a fourth round QB. 

For some reason, Gase never warmed to Lac Edwards, who I thought was fine, but if this Mann kid lives up to the hype he could turn out to be a great pick - and a punter who can flip the field is certainly a big help for the QB.  

 

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

A needle mover would be a guy that does what he does and A) Creates a lot of turnovers or b) one in which you do not have to compromise your defense to accommodate.

 

Are you actually saying that G Williams is compromising his defense to accommodate Adams?  Are you really going this far away from reality?

 

 

 

[Bleedin Green]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The cap is not going to drop. The cba was just signed. The owners have no recourse to shrink the cap.

And watching teams like KC, CLE and Ten pay their stars, no one really thinks this is a possibility.

Except for the Jets fans looking for a reason to demonize the teams best player

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

The cap is dynamic based on NFL revenue, and that's part of the CBA.  To date that has mostly been to the benefit of players, and the reason for the yearly cap increases, but if revenue is down this year due to COVID, the cap will go down as well.  Your own lack of understanding of that doesn't change it.

[Warfish]

8 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

What does that have to do with having good players on your roster?

It has nothing to do with having "good players" on our roster.

It has to do with having Jamal Adams on OUR roster, and the effect he has on wins/losses.

Jamal Adams is a star.  He is a very good strong safety.  These are undebatable facts.

He's also not playing a premium position that has a material impact on wins and losses. 

Jamal Adams is a "final piece/nice to have" type player for a team already great at the premium positions. 

He is not a building block around which a bad team builds a Champion.

We are what we are with him, and we'd be pretty much the same without him.

When I discuss him, my view is clear: 

I value his position quite low.  I value other positions quite high.  I would prefer to have my investment, my star, my big $$ contracts, at other more premium positions.  

That's all.  It's never been about him personally or a criticism of his skill.  It's all about positional value and how champions are build IMO.

[slats]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Why is this statement true?
Prove it.

The 30 nfl gms who filled out that survey and the writers who make the all pro team disagree. He's just as dominant as Revis
 

 

Nope. 

Revis shut down half a football field in his prime, taking away opponents' top weapon consistently. He was the top player at a position of much greater value than SS. That's why the franchise tag numbers for the two positions are $5M apart, and the box safeties are lucky that they're lumped in with the ball-hawking free safeties who generate turnovers. 

Jamal's a nice piece, but you can get 90% of his production from other players on the field. You remove Revis, and you would need two players to do his job on practically every down. Just not even close. 

[Jetsfan80]

Eventually isn't now.  

Yes, that does indeed match the definition of the word, yes.

[Jetsfan80]

Jets paid Wilkerson. Jets paid Trumaine Johnson. Jets paid Enunwa. Jets paid these stiffs and nobody wants them to pay the #1 ranked safety? I don't get it. If Adams was on another team and was a free agent we would be begging the Jets to sign him. He makes our whole defense that more effective. Pay the man.

So if Adams wasn’t on the team you’d be demanding JD cough up a 1st rounder to land him?

Sure you would.

[Jetsfan80]

He still valuable. It’s not his fault the team sucked and he was asked to play the way he did.
 Adams 3 years 12 sacks, 2 ints, PD 25. 
HB 3 years 6 sacks, 8 ints, 27 PDs. 
And I’m adding Adams rookie numbers into this. HB rookie year 2 ints, 1 sack, 9 PD and he’s been to 2 pro bowls (the same as Adams in less then half the time). Including playing on a SB winning team that get up huge every game so the other team had to throw against them and he had a pass rush. 

Yes, he’s valuable. About $13M a year valuable. He wants 20.

[Bleedin Green]

While Adams may be good at what he does, as far as how that translates to overall value, the reality is that the team seemed mostly unaffected by his games missed last season.  Meanwhile, the Jets were substantially more crippled by the loss of Beachum.  Yes, the very same Beachum who only just got signed to one-year backup deal.  Needless to say, the loss of Darnold also had a far greater impact as well.

There is no quantifiable evidence that suggests he is actually any major asset to this team, particularly when you're talking about a DB who has a grand total of 0 meaningful interceptions in his entire career.

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It has nothing to do with having "good players" on our roster.

It has to do with having Jamal Adams on OUR roster, and the effect he has on wins/losses.

Jamal Adams is a star.  He is a very good strong safety.  These are undebatable facts.

He's also not playing a premium position that has a material impact on wins and losses. 

Jamal Adams is a "final piece/nice to have" type player for a team already great at the premium positions. 

He is not a building block around which a bad team builds a Champion.

We are what we are with him, and we'd be pretty much the same without him.

When I discuss him, my view is clear: 

I value his position quite low.  I value other positions quite high.  I would prefer to have my investment, my star, my big $$ contracts, at other more premium positions.  

That's all.  It's never been about him personally or a criticism of his skill.  It's all about positional value and how champions are build IMO.

I'm not a fan of this argument.  We have so many holes on our team game changing players are easy to avoid.  That's why we have a new GM.  Adams with a supporting cast that can't be easily exploited would be more of a game changing player.  

The NFL is about exploiting teams weaknesses and attacking them.   I suspect Adams with a better supporting cast would be much more of  a big play safety.  

Now that defenses have gone to more pass defense with lighter quicker guys to defend a wide open passing game the really good teams are counter with mass at the LOS and pounding the ball.  A great in the box safety may become more valuable.  

The real issue with Adams is how much does he cost and what's his trade value.  That's no different than any other player on the team or in the league.  The real issue with Adams is the noise may be changing his value.  If I were Douglas I would turn off the noise.  

[Morrissey]

Cool, than we should be able to get a lot for him no problem.. 

[Morrissey]

If he’s the “2nd best defensive player in the NFL”

than Jets should be able to get what raiders received for Mack.

“The Raiders have reportedly sent Khalil Mack, a 2020 second-round pick and a conditional 2020 fifth-round pick to the Bears for a 2019 first-round pick, 2020 first-round pick, and 2019 sixth-round pick, according to Adam Schefter. The Khalil Mack standoff is reportedly over.’

[New York Mick]

28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Yes, he’s valuable. About $13M a year valuable. He wants 20.

 

 

And he’ll get around 15 which he should.

[Barry McCockinner]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I assume these same folks will be willing to hand Braden Mann $16M a season when he proves to be the game's best Punter.  

I'm fine with making him the highest paid punter in the league if he is the best punter in the league. ?‍♂️

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Adams with a supporting cast that can't be easily exploited would be more of a game changing player.

I don't think so.  Adams on a better defense, or even last year's Defense but with Mosely healthy all year, has less of an impact.  Not more.

His amazing stats last year were mostly him filling in for our weak LB Corp.  

23 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The NFL is about exploiting teams weaknesses and attacking them.  

I prefer we invest more in solving our weaknesses on Offense rather than investing the capital Adams would cost in a strong safety.

23 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The real issue with Adams is how much does he cost and what's his trade value.  That's no different than any other player on the team or in the league.  The real issue with Adams is the noise may be changing his value.  If I were Douglas I would turn off the noise.  

If he's worth what his fans claim he is, I would prefer to move him and try to invest the returns on Offense.

If he's not worth what his fans claim, I'd rather not pay him what he wants, and certainly not now with two+ years on control still in place.

[Jet Nut]

43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It has nothing to do with having "good players" on our roster.

It has to do with having Jamal Adams on OUR roster, and the effect he has on wins/losses.

Jamal Adams is a star.  He is a very good strong safety.  These are undebatable facts.

He's also not playing a premium position that has a material impact on wins and losses. 

Jamal Adams is a "final piece/nice to have" type player for a team already great at the premium positions. 

He is not a building block around which a bad team builds a Champion.

We are what we are with him, and we'd be pretty much the same without him.

When I discuss him, my view is clear: 

I value his position quite low.  I value other positions quite high.  I would prefer to have my investment, my star, my big $$ contracts, at other more premium positions.  

That's all.  It's never been about him personally or a criticism of his skill.  It's all about positional value and how champions are build IMO.

You and anyone have no idea what his influence is to wins and losses.  What I dont get though is the logic that says good player dont lead to more wins.  That somehow we can add good players, top of their positions like an Adams and they DONT lead to wins and losses. Or that I got to say, I dont give a shlt about what their record would have been his past three years and actually trying to make the case that its a good reason to get rid of our best player.  Because the best way to build a team is to remove your best payers since we only won 7 a year ago. 

Not quite getting the logic

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Not quite getting the logic

No worries, we can just shake hands, and agree to disagree.

I value Adams trade value more than I value Adams.

You value Adams more than you value his trade value.

There is no "right" answer, just varying views on player value and team building.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Warfish said:

No worries, we can just shake hands, and agree to disagree.

Can do.  Especially since I was thinking out loud in regards to all that advocate getting rid of talent, not really anyone specifically.

 

[Bugg]

15 hours ago, GreekJet said:

 

1. Jamal Adams, New York Jets

Age: 24 | Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 5

This wasn't all that close for some.

"He's the second-best defensive player in football," said an NFC exec, placing Adams behind Aaron Donald in the pantheon.

But Adams didn't dominate the voting in all sectors, with Vikings safety Harrison Smith pushing him for No. 1 until Adams pulled away over the final few votes.

 

pay him!

Said NFC executive needs to find employment in another field altogether. 

 

 

[slats]

1 hour ago, GreekJet said:

Answer my question what are the Jets going to do with the cap space?

[..]

Also the cap is not going to drop that much. The players union will go nuts on owners who are getting another revenue stream here with sports betting.

Cap space rolls forward. The Jets have a ton of one-year and last year of their deal players on the roster this year. Like last season, Joe Douglas will approach guys who are performing well about extensions during the year. The biggest needs on the team remain at OL, WR, and CB, until proven otherwise. Next year, those are positions the Jets could very easily be looking to upgrade in free agency. They're all pricey positions, too. Not paying Adams now is the only prudent play for the team. They have him under contract and aside from his public whining have no reason to open that book at all. 

I mean, really? Why pay the guy $15M+/year when you have him locked in for the less than that for at least the next three? That would just be bad management. No other way to describe it. 

And the cap is up in the air right now. I tend to doubt that they'll be taking a $60M, one year hit next year, too, but I also don't think that the players' proposal to stretch it out over a decade is gonna fly, either. Pretty sure the way it's written, though, is for that one year hit. Anything else would have to be negotiated. It's a time to be pragmatic with contracts, not overly generous. 

[NYJ1]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You're a tool Shane lol