Jamal Adams ranked #1 in ESPNs top 10 Safteys

[NYJ1]

15 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I don’t know why it’s so hard for so many Jet fans to accept we have a good player on our team.

It’s like they would prefer we don’t have anyone good so they can be miserable.

Very good post Sir. You nailed it!

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't think so.  Adams on a better defense, or even last year's Defense but with Mosely healthy all year, has less of an impact.  Not more.

His amazing stats last year were mostly him filling in for our weak LB Corp.  

I prefer we invest more in solving our weaknesses on Offense rather than investing the capital Adams would cost in a strong safety.

If he's worth what his fans claim he is, I would prefer to move him and try to invest the returns on Offense.

If he's not worth what his fans claim, I'd rather not pay him what he wants, and certainly not now with two+ years on control still in place.

What the fans claim is irrelevant and what he wants to get paid is irrelevant.   Right now we don't have to pay him what he wants.  If we fixed the OL and Bell is what he was and Herndon is what he was and Darnold is the real deal our O may be ahead of our D by the end of the year.  

The past year is irrelevant.  We are rebuilding and Douglas has made a heavy investment in O already.  Let's see how it pans out before decimating our D for more O.  

If we get some kind of high value deal and Douglas views it as a net positive I'm fine trading him.  These are very nuanced decisions that separate really good GM's from the pack.  As a fan I don't get emotional about it, I just want results.  I'm willing to sit back and let Douglas make the call without second guessing him right now.   

I think Jamal is making a lot of noise and fans don't like it.  He's making noise to pressure our GM to make a less than full value assessment of his contract value and his trade value.  I'm glad Douglas and Gase don't seem to be taking the bait.  I'm pretty confident will get the best deal we can either in contract or trade.  I'm willing to give the current team a couple of years to get this turned around.  If not rinse repeat...

Adams is a very good player.  If he's a Jets player I want him to play great.  If he's somewhere else I hope we get great value.  If he acts like a clown in the offseason, I could care less.  

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Adams is a very good player.  If he's a Jets player I want him to play great.  If he's somewhere else I hope we get great value.

I can agree with this.

[BCJet]

50 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

While Adams may be good at what he does, as far as how that translates to overall value, the reality is that the team seemed mostly unaffected by his games missed last season.  Meanwhile, the Jets were substantially more crippled by the loss of Beachum.  Yes, the very same Beachum who only just got signed to one-year backup deal.  Needless to say, the loss of Darnold also had a far greater impact as well.

There is no quantifiable evidence that suggests he is actually any major asset to this team, particularly when you're talking about a DB who has a grand total of 0 meaningful interceptions in his entire career.

Here's the issue with the wins and losses argument and why its so mind boggling to me that people use it to take away from Adams.  There are 22 starters and 30+ players who contribute to a team on sunday and aside from the QB and a Kahil Mack type pass rusher, none of them can have enough impact to actually generate a win more then occasionally.

Aaron Donald's "team" went 6-10 and 7-9 his first 2 years, should he have been traded because he didnt generate wins from a non-premium position (he also held out after his 3rd year btw when he "only" had 8 sacks and the team won 4 games)?  Was Earl Thomas to blame when the Seahawks won 7 games each of his first 2 season?  

The Jets defense lost an all-pro player for the season in week 1, started 2 CBs who aren't just bad, but should be out of the league, and still managed to field a good overall defense.  Is it at all possible that Adams is elite enough at his position to influence the overall play of the unit he actually plays on but the "team" happened to be hampered by the worst Oline in football?  Should Adams have asked to play guard to?

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

Here's the issue with the wins and losses argument and why its so mind boggling to me that people use it to take away from Adams.  There are 22 starters and 30+ players who contribute to a team on sunday and aside from the QB and a Kahil Mack type pass rusher, none of them can have enough impact to actually generate a win more then occasionally.

Aaron Donald's "team" went 6-10 and 7-9 his first 2 years, should he have been traded because he didnt generate wins from a non-premium position (he also held out after his 3rd year btw when he "only" had 8 sacks and the team won 4 games)?  Was Earl Thomas to blame when the Seahawks won 7 games each of his first 2 season?  

The Jets defense lost an all-pro player for the season in week 1, started 2 CBs who aren't just bad, but should be out of the league, and still managed to field a good overall defense.  Is it at all possible that Adams is elite enough at his position to influence the overall play of the unit he actually plays on but the "team" happened to be hampered by the worst Oline in football?  Should Adams have asked to play guard to?

Do you think if we have a better O-line (3rd round value) and a better #1 WR last year (#1 pick value), instead of Adams, that we might have been a better team?

I think we're a better team with the O-lione and WR than we were with Adams.

I think if we had Mosely healthy, Adams production last year is materially reduced to the point of being ~average for a strong safety.

Ask yourself this, with both Adams and Mosely on the field, who was the big difference maker?  

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Yes, because he's mostly tasked with operating in the box, you won't see gawdy INT numbers

Lol like 50 linebackers had more picks than him last year.

[Bugg]

57 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm not a fan of this argument.  We have so many holes on our team game changing players are easy to avoid.  That's why we have a new GM.  Adams with a supporting cast that can't be easily exploited would be more of a game changing player.  

The NFL is about exploiting teams weaknesses and attacking them.   I suspect Adams with a better supporting cast would be much more of  a big play safety.  

Now that defenses have gone to more pass defense with lighter quicker guys to defend a wide open passing game the really good teams are counter with mass at the LOS and pounding the ball.  A great in the box safety may become more valuable.  

The real issue with Adams is how much does he cost and what's his trade value.  That's no different than any other player on the team or in the league.  The real issue with Adams is the noise may be changing his value.  If I were Douglas I would turn off the noise.  

Were he willing to take $11-14 million from the Jets, would say that works.

He's talking about $20 million per. And for that you could sign this year's Honey Badger/Eric Weddle for significantly less than that with almost no dropoff in production, or sign a replacement level guy for a fraction, have a marginal dropoff but make up for it filling other slots. 

As to the Adams-loving "NFC executive"; Adams doesn't get turnovers. Under the rules, a safety clobbering receivers crossing over the middle is a 15 yard penalty. He is not an edge, nor a cover corner, nor a LT or primo WR. He only blitzed a bunch because Williams lost Moseley about 1 series into the season. This person either does not exist or is not very good at his job. 

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Lol like 50 linebackers had more picks than him last year.

Polamalu and Ed Reed never got turnov...oh, right, yeah, they did. 

[Bugg]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Do you think if we have a better O-line (3rd round value) and a better #1 WR last year (#1 pick value), instead of Adams, that we might have been a better team?

I think we're a better team with the O-lione and WR than we were with Adams.

I think if we had Mosely healthy, Adams production last year is materially reduced to the point of being ~average for a strong safety.

Ask yourself this, with both Adams and Mosely on the field, who was the big difference maker?  

Had Moseley been healthy, the blitzing would have been a fraction of what it was.

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Polamalu and Ed Reed never got turnov...oh, right, yeah, they did. 

Me, an NFL writer, trying to find 100 words explaining why Jamal Adams is great: 

 

[Greenbloodblitz]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes but eventually the decision will come down to trading, paying, franchising, or allowing to walk in free agency.

Of those 4 choices, I prefer a trade, but only when we know what the value of 2021 picks will look like.

 I don't care how good he is if he ruins and poisons the chemistry of the team..

 He's not worth it.

 like I said before if he carried himself more like Larry Fitzgerald instead of acting like Antonio Brown, he would probably already have an extension.

[BCJet]

22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Do you think if we have a better O-line (3rd round value) and a better #1 WR last year (#1 pick value), instead of Adams, that we might have been a better team?

I think we're a better team with the O-lione and WR than we were with Adams.

I think if we had Mosely healthy, Adams production last year is materially reduced to the point of being ~average for a strong safety.

Ask yourself this, with both Adams and Mosely on the field, who was the big difference maker?  

Well, in the whole 3 quarters they played together, Mosley was the superior player.  But if we have them both do you really think it will limit how effective Adams can be?  If you put 2 players on the field who can both cover, blitz and play the run at elite levels, dont you think it would limit the areas an offense can attack?

I just dont see defense as a zero sum game where Mosley's production would limit another players effectiveness.  There are simply too many other variables and frankly, if you take your argument, wouldn't another WR just lower the effectiveness of Mims or Crowder, theres only 1 ball to go around right?

[Jetsfan80]

And he’ll get around 15 which he should.

lol @ the idea of Jamal “settling” for 15.

[Jetsfan80]

I'm fine with making him the highest paid punter in the league if he is the best punter in the league. ?‍♂️

Jamal doesn’t “just” want to be the highest paid Safety.

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Well, in the whole 3 quarters they played together, Mosley was the superior player.  But if we have them both do you really think it will limit how effective Adams can be?  If you put 2 players on the field who can both cover, blitz and play the run at elite levels, dont you think it would limit the areas an offense can attack?

I just dont see defense as a zero sum game where Mosley's production would limit another players effectiveness.  There are simply too many other variables and frankly, if you take your argument, wouldn't another WR just lower the effectiveness of Mims or Crowder, theres only 1 ball to go around right?

I think if Mosley was healthy in 2019, Adams production would be on par with other starting strong safeties in the NFL.

Adams effectively played Linebacker last year out of requirement.  Play him more in coverage, and his production of LB-type stats (Sacks, FF, tackles) goes down, but his pass coverage production would not, in my view, materially rise.  I think he's quite over-rated in pass coverage tbqh.

We'll see in 2020.  If anyone can scheme greatness, it a Greg Williams type, so we'll see how Adams does this year with (we all hope) a 100% healthy Mosely in front of him.  

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Here's the issue with the wins and losses argument and why its so mind boggling to me that people use it to take away from Adams.  There are 22 starters and 30+ players who contribute to a team on sunday and aside from the QB and a Kahil Mack type pass rusher, none of them can have enough impact to actually generate a win more then occasionally.

Aaron Donald's "team" went 6-10 and 7-9 his first 2 years, should he have been traded because he didnt generate wins from a non-premium position (he also held out after his 3rd year btw when he "only" had 8 sacks and the team won 4 games)?  Was Earl Thomas to blame when the Seahawks won 7 games each of his first 2 season?  

The Jets defense lost an all-pro player for the season in week 1, started 2 CBs who aren't just bad, but should be out of the league, and still managed to field a good overall defense.  Is it at all possible that Adams is elite enough at his position to influence the overall play of the unit he actually plays on but the "team" happened to be hampered by the worst Oline in football?  Should Adams have asked to play guard to?

Except all that really proves is that Adams' value is in no way substantially higher than every other player on the team, as he is asserting.  He's a quality player whose contributions are heavily dependent on many far more important positions in pro football.  The fact remains that the Jets saw a substantial overall team performance impact when first without their starting QB and later LT.  No such impact was felt without their SS.

Meanwhile, he wants to refuse to honor his current contract and be compensated substantially more than anyone else who has ever played a position even remotely similar to his.  There's no evidence to suggest any of that is at all justified, and your point only further proves that.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Lol like 50 linebackers had more picks than him last year.

Including the Jets' own Neville Hewitt.

Meanwhile, there were a plethora of DL who matched Adams' in picks last year.  I'd venture a guess, and feel pretty confident in it, that not all of those were in garbage time against a backup either.

[nycdan]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

Quinnen and Denzel if things break correctly.  If they both hit and want to renegotiate in 2022 we don’t want to be strapped with a box contract on a constraining safety. 

SAR I

Why would we renegotiate with Mims after 2 seasons or Quinnen after 3?  isn't Jamal looking for a new deal  after 3 part of what is setting so many people off here?  I think both are likely to happen in 2023.  By then any contract we do with Jamal will be 3 years in and probably open to redoing or cutting.

[jeremy2020]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I can name players who got paid and afterwards there wasn't a drop-off in their hustle or play.  Nothing about Adams, the way he plays says that once he gets paid he'll become a do.

But hey, 2 players dogged it, never, ever pay anyone again.  Lets become the Bengals

Everything about Adams says he'll dog it. He's an emotional infant who cries constantly about thing not going his way. He's never been on a consistent winner and he's currently trying to force his way off a team for middling play because they won't redo his contract two years early. 

but hey...your 'predictions' are usually wrong on a stunningly high basis that stresses the very core of statistics that someone could be so wrong so often so at least you have that to back you up. Awesome add with the "I could name" some player who signed contracts as the highest paid at their position two years before their current contract was up, but not actually just...naming them. I mean if it's so easy to name them then why not just go ahead and do it?

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Were he willing to take $11-14 million from the Jets, would say that works.

He's talking about $20 million per. And for that you could sign this year's Honey Badger/Eric Weddle for significantly less than that with almost no dropoff in production, or sign a replacement level guy for a fraction, have a marginal dropoff but make up for it filling other slots. 

As to the Adams-loving "NFC executive"; Adams doesn't get turnovers. Under the rules, a safety clobbering receivers crossing over the middle is a 15 yard penalty. He is not an edge, nor a cover corner, nor a LT or primo WR. He only blitzed a bunch because Williams lost Moseley about 1 series into the season. This person either does not exist or is not very good at his job. 

If you're happy with him getting 11 to 14 you should be thrilled his going to be playing for less than 4 this year.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Everything about Adams says he'll dog it. He's an emotional infant who cries constantly about thing not going his way. He's never been on a consistent winner and he's currently trying to force his way off a team for middling play because they won't redo his contract two years early. 

but hey...your 'predictions' are usually wrong on a stunningly high basis that stresses the very core of statistics that someone could be so wrong so often so at least you have that to back you up. Awesome add with the "I could name" some player who signed contracts as the highest paid at their position two years before their current contract was up, but not actually just...naming them. I mean if it's so easy to name them then why not just go ahead and do it?

Absolutely nothing about Adams game has indicated he would dog it.  Youre just making it up.  He gives 110% all the time, no matter the score, no matter the coach.  He's all over the field. Just like he played in college.  He doesnt cry.  Hes said in the past he wants to win more than anything, none of these leads anyone to think he will dog it.  Hes currently trying to get paid.  Perhaps we missed that part.  

As for my predictions, I predicted, quite accurately that you would come back and say something like this based on nothing of consequence.  Then you blow past the point I made, the follow-up question.  Just because Mo and Tru dogged it we shouldn't spend money on FAs I assume and to resign our players?  No player that plays well and is up for a second contract we'll get rid of.  Thats your brilliant advice to the JD, no second contract to all pro/pro bowl level players?  

I also knew you would eventually turn this into an attack, now its my imagionary predictions that missed the mark or the  idea that I'm wrong often.  Because you're a friggen genius.  Seriously, I read your nonsense and put you into the category of fans who actually think they know the game better than others but really dont so they just blow words out their ass like the above Adams nonsense, dig in and never give an inch no matter what.  

So if you dont like it, ignore my points or replies.  Post COVID-19 and my days in arguing with stubborn posters like you are over.  

Though I also predict you won't be able to stop

[NYJ1]

17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Good yes.

Good safety yes.

Good in the box safety yes.

A guy that moves he needle?  No.

A guy that is going to be paid far more than he is worth?  Yes

A guy that is a royal pain in the ass and has a questionable attitude?  Yes.

No one, even his biggest critics disputes him being a good in the box safety.

 

The above post is one of the most insanely idiotic posts I have ever seen. At no point is this rambling, incoherent response is there anything that even vaguely resembles a rational thought. Everyone on this board is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

[jetstream23]

18 hours ago, Beerfish said:

please tell us who this nfc exec is so Douglas can get him on the phone asap.

Bingo!

"Hey, it's Joe Douglas....How do I talk you into adding a 2023 2nd round pick to the three 1's you're already giving me?"

[Bugg]

39 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If you're happy with him getting 11 to 14 you should be thrilled his going to be playing for less than 4 this year.

Them's the rules of the game under the cap. They could tear up his rookie deal were he willing to be reasonable than wanting $20 million per. 

 

[Bleedin Green]

12 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Them's the rules of the game under the cap. They could tear up his rookie deal were he willing to be reasonable than wanting $20 million per. 

 

Any Adams apologists essentially think the Jets should be taking on an all-risk/no-reward deal.

Teams only ever agree to deals early if they think it is getting them a discounted rate.  The only reason the Jets would have to do a deal now is if were to be an extension, not an entirely new deal, and the future years are a good bit less than what they believe his market value would be in 2022.  If he wants an entirely new deal that sees increases in these next two years, it would then need to be an even lower yearly rate than the one they would offer with an extension for the Jets to even consider it, as it would still have to net out to an overall savings for them, otherwise it makes no sense.

If Adams doesn't feel confident in his own future, he makes that deal as an insurance policy.  If he wants to bet on himself, then he needs to play out his deal and go for his big payday when he's actually eligible for it.

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Jamal doesn’t “just” want to be the highest paid Safety.

 

[Mogglez]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

What do nfl executives know? Not like the dude in this thread who said the defense was good with Darryl Roberts at safety. They should give that genius a gm job he's clearly wasting his talents

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

@ me next time Goober boy.

I didn't say that the defense, as a whole, was good with Darryl Roberts.  I said we didn't skip a beat with Adams out of the lineup and Roberts and Maye playing FS and SS respectively in week 14.  Guess what?  We didn't, and there's no debating it .

 

[New York Mick]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

lol @ the idea of Jamal “settling” for 15.

 

He’ll settle for whatever he is offered he has no choice. 

[Beerfish]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm fine with making him the highest paid punter in the league if he is the best punter in the league. ?‍♂️

The jets had the best kicker and kick returner in the league two years ago, they let both of them walk over a few dollars.  Myers was  loss, roberts really wasn't.

The jets have two very high paid ILBs, had a high paid DT in williams, now we want to pay a SS a truck load of money.

If you have the best ilbs, best SS best run stopping DTs in the league you will be like the jets always great in run stopping, also winning 5-7 games a year.

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

 I don't care how good he is if he ruins and poisons the chemistry of the team..

 He's not worth it.

 like I said before if he carried himself more like Larry Fitzgerald instead of acting like Antonio Brown, he would probably already have an extension.

That's a wide spectrum right there. Fitzgerald the studious choir boy and a psycho. I'd think 99. 9% of the NFL carry themselves between those two.

[UntouchableCrew]

I think some of the roster management stuff is a bit overblown here.

No, in theory paying a boat load of money to a strong safety doesn't make sense in a vacuum. Same thing applied to overpaying an elite ILB and RB last year in FA. But at the same time -- you need to improve your roster. That happens by retaining the good players you have, letting go the bad players and replenishing with the draft. 

The real key to the Jets turning this around is 1) Joe Douglas drafting well and 2) Sam Darnold panning out.

In the meantime refusing to play our best player because a strong safety isn't "worth" that much money doesn't make much sense to me when we simply don't have any other players worth paying. Should we just sit at the salary floor because we aren't contenders? Good teams don't trade away their best players, they retain them. Who exactly are we going to be spending that money on in the short term anyway? Elite players at game changing positions (QB, WR, LT, DE, CB) are retained because they're so valuable. They never hit UFA. We we can overpay 2nd tier guys who shake loose because they have attitude issues, or overpay premium non-value positions (see Mosley, CJ and Bell, Leveon) but the reality is where is that money really going to be better spent in the short term?\

In four years time Adams will be crowing about his next deal -- hopefully by then we have enough good players that we'll have to weigh his value. I just don't see why we're in a position where we shouldn't be trying to retain Adams barring being blown away by a massive offer. Someone offers us a bounty of picks for him? Sure, makes sense. We need the picks more than we need an elite strong safety. But we surely need an elite player at any position more than we need $17mm in cap space.

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Post COVID-19 and my days in arguing with stubborn posters like you are over.  

What about stubborn posters like me?  ?

[Larz]

Basic football IQ test 

“adams is a box safety “

you post that and I know that you just watch the ball, not the game lol

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, bitonti said:

. The owners have no recourse to shrink the cap.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

What are you talking about? Cap is based on revenue. If there is 30% less revenue there is 30% cap unless they both agree to amortize it which they probably will. The cap is determined by the CBA, so if revenue goes down so does the cap.

[Jet Nut]

54 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What about stubborn posters like me?  ?

Especially you.  ?