Deshaunapolooza ****Official Deshaun Watson Speculation Megathread**** (Merged eleventy bajillion times)

[Ghost]

This thread is ridiculous. No way I can last until the draft. Can we trade for Watson already?

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Ghost said:

This thread is ridiculous. No way I can last until the draft. Can we trade for Watson already?

I sure hope so.

[chirorob]

6 minutes ago, Ghost said:

This thread is ridiculous. No way I can last until the draft. Can we trade for Watson already?

Well, the season isn't actually over yet.

[Ghost]

1 minute ago, chirorob said:

Well, the season isn't actually over yet.

Good response - This season feels like it’s been going on forever. Our season was over week 2. 

[chirorob]

1 minute ago, Ghost said:

Good response - This season feels like it’s been going on forever. Our season was over week 2. 

Seriously.  Normal fans say, "I want my team im meaningful games come January."

Jets fans say, "I want meaningful games in mid October."

[Jethead]

16 hours ago, football guy said:

Texans are dumb and bad. The Texans are dumb and bad for firing Rick Smith—the architect of that team—without a plan to replace him, and to give their highly impulsive head coach unchartered power that no other NFL employee has come close to rivaling (with exception to Bill Belichick) in the past 2 decades. That’s a biproduct of an aging owner giving control to his son without a proper structure in place to ensure a smooth transition. 

Watson’s reps are dumb and bad for not recognizing the issues with the roster and the organizational structure yet still signing a deal that commits their client to the organization for 5 years. The issues were apparent, but it seems to me they valued money more so than structure and situation back in September 2020. Now all of a sudden they value structure and situation? Give me a break. 

What your saying here is the very issue with our society: absolutism and tribalism. If one side is right the other must be wrong. That is such a flawed way of evaluating situations. The team was already in disarray and the only string holding it together was Bill O’Brien’s coaching ability and Watson’s playing ability. Otherwise the team was bound for regression as soon as they made that trade for Tunsil and signed a bunch of aging defenders to 3-5 year deals. Watson could have negotiated a shorter-term extension (2 years) to avoid the option and to ensure himself he collected money to avoid risk of injury. He could have asked that extension include a clause that prohibited the Texans’ ability to franchise tag him. If they said no, then continue to negotiate until you’re satisfied. Forecast your concerns and protect yourself in the event that the worst case scenario plays out. His reps didn’t do that. 

If I were Deshaun and I legitimately didn’t want to be in Houston for the reasons he claims, my agents would’ve been fired 3 months ago. 

If Houston wasn't a sh*tshow with dumbness on both sides this wouldn't even be an option. Maybe we get really lucky. I give it 20%, too good to not try but plan B much more likely.

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Seriously.  Normal fans say, "I want my team im meaningful games come January."

Jets fans say, "I want meaningful games in mid October."

Gase did fulfill one promise: our December games were meaningful!

 

[bla bla bla]

10 hours ago, genot said:

We don't know if that was part of the reason why he signed that deal. I haven't seen any report that the Texans agreed to let Watson in on any decision like thst.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30364710/houston-texans-ceo-cal-mcnair-asked-deshaun-watson-opinion-team-head-coach-gm-search%3fplatform=amp

[flgreen]

16 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

This tweet is in reference to Watson being upset at the Texans for trading Hopkins (2) and then after they hired their new GM while Watson was on vacation he took his frustration to a 10.

We may not have heard "I demand a trade" but there is plenty of smoke to this fire. This one is just from the horses mouth.

Yeah he's pissed.  If there is no hope  between them, why not just demand a trade? 

Have a feeling in two weeks if the Texans hire Bieniemy it will all be resolved.  As long as Watson gets everything he wants.  Otherwise there is no reason not to be screaming for a trade right now, and putting some REAL heat on them.

I suppose the trade could happen, but all I see so far is smoke, and media trying to fan it into fire. we've seen this kind of behavior from the media many times. 

We'll see, but getting all  excited at this point is just going to lead to frustration.  Like I said when Watson gets serious, then I start thinking of what could be.   

[choon328]

4 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Well if it isn’t his agent it’s Watson himself....failure to see this is simply naive.

Watson could make this all go away very easily by publicly announcing that there is no basis to any of this and that he is absolutely 100% going nowhere and fully committed to playing for Houston...he could kill this very easily, but he hasn’t.

There is very little to separate him from Adams at this point, JA started off with ‘rumblings’ and ‘sources’ before eventually escalating to demanding a trade.....Watson wants to create the stir but not step up and take ownership of it, hence the hiding behind his representatives and leaks to guys like Schefter......you can argue that’s entirely his right and simply the way these things happen in modern sport, some might argue it’s pretty cowardly and pathetic ....the bottom line is any portrayal of Watson as some kind of saint is ludicrous.

if you want to turn your franchise over to that then all well and good, but if it goes to sh!t nobody can claim they didn’t see it coming 

Who benefits the most from playing the Dolphins and Jets interest against each other? Not Watson or his agent. PR 101, when you have to make a controversial decision you try to deflect blame onto someone else. Watson, in some eyes, looks like a dick now. If you don't think that gives the organization some cover to move on from him you'd be very mistaken. And if you don't think a corporation would do that you'd also be very mistaken. PR is 99% of business.

Why would Watson have the Jets as his #1 destination? All the Jets have right now is a 2 win roster, draft picks, cold weather and cap space. And Watson got his contract so he's not looking for money. Wouldn't the Panthers, Colts or 49ers make more sense for him personally? 2 warm weather destinations and 1 who plays 10 games in a dome. All 3 teams have better rosters and are closer to a SB then the Jets. The spin by the Texans PR is in overdrive right now and is obviously working. 

[Jetsfan80]

16 hours ago, dcJet said:

No need to take sides here.  Both sides can be blamed.   

F**k that.  The Texans suck and deserve this (not the fans, the organization).  People want Watson to be a good soldier here and that's f**king stupid.  

The NFL needs to step in and force McNair to sell the team.  But only after trading us Watson.  lol.

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, Beerfish said:

We have a well respected GM, we have  new promising coach both on long term deals.  We have cap room, we have lots of draft assets and as in the past we are looking for a quick fix.

I do not want the Jets to waste, time, resources to chase another teams problem.

Decide if you want to make  pitch for Watson, make them an offer you can live with  an take it or leave it and move on.

I'm sick of being played every year.  We have the hammer, they have a the disgruntled player.

Is he available?  Here is our offer, you have a week to get back to us.

 

Well luckily this is Joe Douglas we're talking about.  The same guy who got two 1sts and a 3rd out of a Box Safety.  He also wisely avoided trading Quinnen Williams when there were supposedly some big trade packages on the table.

Whatever critiques you have of the guy, he won't get pushed around in trade negotiations.

[freestater]

When you're set up perfectly to get that FQB, and then one becomes available...you go get that QB. I would happily give up 3 1sts including the #2 for a already top 5, 25 year old. That's a bargain compared to the resources we've squandered at the position for the last decade. 

[Jetsfan80]

12 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

  

Private behind-the-scenes stuff not being discussed, with lots of media speculation, is in no way comparable to a nearly year-long constant public temper tantrum featuring accusations that were repeatedly proven to be complete lies.

If you don't like Watson's situation, that's your prerogative, but the equation you're trying to push is complete nonsense, and that's even before getting into the laughable concept of trying to equate anything involving a franchise QB to that of a safety whose lone skill is blitzing.

 

12 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

How many young QBs on mega deals get told they'd have a say in front office decisions? It doesn't happen because top 5 QBs don't usually lose their HC or GM. If Watson was told he'd have a say and they went back on it, that is entirely in the Texans.

 

Don't even bother with genot, fellas.  He still believes in Sam Darnold.  Much like a child still believes in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.  And all of his opinions on what the Jets will do and what they SHOULD do at the QB position flow from that.

Just point and laugh, gentlemen.  Point and laugh.  

[choon328]

13 minutes ago, freestater said:

When you're set up perfectly to get that FQB, and then one becomes available...you go get that QB. I would happily give up 3 1sts including the #2 for a already top 5, 25 year old. That's a bargain compared to the resources we've squandered at the position for the last decade. 

The thing which makes no sense to me is that most want to take a QB at #2. So in theory you're actually only giving up 2 extra 1st round picks for Watson bc you were going to take a QB at #2 anyway. So you're giving up 2 additional first round picks to take the risk out of the equation. 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The thing which makes no sense to me is that most want to take a QB at #2. So in theory you're actually only giving up 2 extra 1st round picks for Watson bc you were going to take a QB at #2 anyway. So you're giving up 2 additional first round picks to take the risk out of the equation. 

Well, that's the problem here.  A lot of the people against trading for Watson also want to trade down from 2 and not take a QB at all.  They're far more comfortable sacrificing NO draft assets on a QB in 2021, and would rather kick the can down the road on that decision.  

Some of these same people still believe in Sam Darnold, too.  Not all, but some. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Amen, thank you. A “lawyer“ using Jesus though? ?

He was ridiculing you there, not Mogglez.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

Take a step back and think about what you suggested in your original statement. You’re equating Deshaun Watson’s stance to slavery as it pertains to the 13th amendment because he’s unsatisfied with the organization he works for. It couldn’t be further from it. Deshaun, or any other player for that matter, is free to retire. Case dismissed. 

He is also free to force a trade.

[chirorob]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well, that's the problem here.  A lot of the people against trading for Watson also want to trade down from 2 and not take a QB at all.  They're far more comfortable sacrificing NO draft assets on a QB in 2021, and would rather kick the can down the road on that decision.  

Some of these same people still believe in Sam Darnold, too.  Not all, but some. 

Or, just some people think that the team is so full of holes it has to be repaired.  Not just with one starter, no matter how good, but with 8-10 new starters, preferably on rookie contracts.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Or, just some people think that the team is so full of holes it has to be repaired.  Not just with one starter, no matter how good, but with 8-10 new starters, preferably on rookie contracts.

1. No one finds 8-10 new starters from one draft.  At least 50 % of picks fail, even when a GOOD GM is making those picks.
2. We'll still have plenty of picks left even after a Watson trade.  That's the flexibility we gained thanks to the Adams trade.  Plus whatever pick(s) we could get for Darnold.
3. Watson would make the roster look a LOT better.  All of a sudden, the OL would look more than competent, the receivers would look fine, and the running game would be improved no matter what upgrades we make.
4. Free agency will also be a lot easier with Watson on the roster.  WRs who ordinarily wouldn't give us the time of the day, or would use us to get more money from another team, would be making us their top destination.
5. We don't have as many holes as you think.  And with Saleh around I imagine the defense will be pretty good next season.  

[choon328]

36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well, that's the problem here.  A lot of the people against trading for Watson also want to trade down from 2 and not take a QB at all.  They're far more comfortable sacrificing NO draft assets on a QB in 2021, and would rather kick the can down the road on that decision.  

Some of these same people still believe in Sam Darnold, too.  Not all, but some. 

I actually think some people just want to stay bad

[football guy]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

An illusory choice is not a choice. To spare our fellow posters from this scintillating Constitutional debate, feel free to PM me if you wish to continue it.

There’s no need to discuss it. It’s the most ridiculous comment I’ve read in a long time. I do respect your perspective on a high level, but throwing out legal concepts as justification for a stance isn’t going to fly. There is nothing illusory about an NFL contract. A player does not have to apply to or declare for the NFL Draft. No one is forcing them to; they’re availing to the NFL rules. Once they sign their contract, they are free to retire if they no longer want to play for that team they chose to sign for. Let’s stop trying to make this deeper than it is

[Wit]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

There’s no need to discuss it. It’s the most ridiculous comment I’ve read in a long time. I do respect your perspective on a high level, but throwing out legal concepts as justification for a stance isn’t going to fly. There is nothing illusory about an NFL contract. A player does not have to apply to or declare for the NFL Draft. No one is forcing them to; they’re availing to the NFL rules. Once they sign their contract, they are free to retire if they no longer want to play for that team they chose to sign for. Let’s stop trying to make this deeper than it is

From a practical standpoint, If Watson sits out and the Texans tank, is that better than getting a haul of picks and he plays next year? 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I actually think some people just want to stay bad

Lol exactly. If self-soothing set expectations low to avoid later disappointment.

[dcJet]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

F**k that.  The Texans suck and deserve this (not the fans, the organization).  People want Watson to be a good soldier here and that's f**king stupid.  

The NFL needs to step in and force McNair to sell the team.  But only after trading us Watson.  lol.

Watson signed his contract and is publicly complaining about the team similar but not exactly to Prez.  He's no angel here. 

The clueless Texan management are bigger asses.

Watson needs to go full Jamal Adams to get traded.  This half-measure, passive-aggressive strategy won't be enough.

[BigRy56]

I wish the trade would just get announced already. This is exhausting

[Wit]

1 minute ago, BigRy56 said:

I wish the trade would just get announced already. This is exhausting

Watson hasn’t even publicly requested a trade. This is media porn. 

[football guy]

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30364710/houston-texans-ceo-cal-mcnair-asked-deshaun-watson-opinion-team-head-coach-gm-search%3fplatform=amp

Unless the owner explicitedly said, “hey Deshaun, I want you to choose”, I don’t understand Deshaun’s grevience. The owner asked for his opinion. Going out of the way to meet with him to discuss it is a sign of the utmost respect and at the very least consideration. Since when did asking for an opinion mean that Deshaun should be handed the keys? Since when does it mean that the Texans will take his input? Listening and acting are two entirely different things.
 

All this is nonsense. I feel bad for the fans who have convinced themselves that Deshaun is in the right and furthermore who think he’ll be traded. All this comes down to is Deshaun’s reps controlling Deshaun. Sad.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Watson signed his contract and is publicly complaining about the team similar but not exactly to Prez.  He's no angel here. 

The clueless Texan management are bigger asses.

Watson needs to go full Jamal Adams to get traded.  This half-measure, passive-aggressive strategy won't be enough.

It's not a moral failing to complain about your employer/current working conditions. Some would say it takes courage. Especially with so many who hold the ridiculous attitude that you either live and die by a contract or you go flip burgers somewhere. Hey, you got options!

[Irish Jet]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

Unless the owner explicitedly said, “hey Deshaun, I want you to choose”, I don’t understand Deshaun’s grevience. The owner asked for his opinion. Going out of the way to meet with him to discuss it is a sign of the utmost respect and at the very least consideration. Since when did asking for an opinion mean that Deshaun should be handed the keys? 
 

All this is nonsense. I feel bad for the fans who have convinced themselves that Deshaun is in the right and furthermore who think he’ll be traded 

They didn't even interview his recommendations.

He's by far the most valuable aspect of that franchise. Who comes to work with him will dictate their future. Of course it's fair that he has an input, he certainly knows more about the game than the clowns running the show.

Watson should have forced a move when they traded Hopkins. He's been more patient than most. Disgraceful how he's been treated.

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Unless the owner explicitedly said, “hey Deshaun, I want you to choose”, I don’t understand Deshaun’s grevience. The owner asked for his opinion. Going out of the way to meet with him to discuss it is a sign of the utmost respect and at the very least consideration. Since when did asking for an opinion mean that Deshaun should be handed the keys? 
 

All this is nonsense. I feel bad for the fans who have convinced themselves that Deshaun is in the right and furthermore who think he’ll be traded 

It's too early to tell. They don't have a HC yet. All we know is Watson is upset with the team but hasn't requested a trade or anything yet. I assume once there's a staff in place, they'll try to mend things over. But if that fails, who knows what will happen.

[football guy]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

It's not a moral failing to complain about your employer/current working conditions. Some would say it takes courage. Especially with so many who hold the ridiculous attitude that you either live and die by a contract or you go flip burgers somewhere. Hey, you got options!

Who said they have to flip burgers? Deshaun could’ve become a real estate agent or a financial advisor and become a millionaire based on his reputation in the states of Georgia, NC, SC alone... 

For the record, I don’t take offense to him complaining about his employer. I take issue with his method of doing it. He has more power than any player in the NFL. Have a conversation about it; don’t leak irrelevant grievances to the media which really don’t matter to you for the sole purpose of trying to get traded because you’re unhappy with losing. That’s what’s called being a big fat pussy. Man up. You signed your contract, now go about it diplomatically. If you still don’t get your way, you have options: sit out and subject yourself to fines, or retire. Why is this so complicated

[dcJet]

@jgb, @football guy

Thanks for the respectful, informed and passionate debate.

[Beerfish]

29 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

I wish the trade would just get announced already. This is exhausting

This is going to go on until the draft is over so be ready for it.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Who said they have to flip burgers? Deshaun could’ve become a real estate agent or a financial advisor and become a millionaire based on his reputation in the states of Georgia, NC, SC alone... 

For the record, I don’t take offense to him complaining about his employer. I take issue with his method of doing it. He has more power than any player in the NFL. Have a conversation about it; don’t leak irrelevant grievances to the media which really don’t matter to you for the sole purpose of trying to get traded because you’re unhappy with losing. That’s what’s called being a big fat pussy. Man up. You signed your contract, now go about it diplomatically. If you still don’t get your way, you have options: sit out and subject yourself to fines, or retire. Why is this so complicated

My friend, I invited you to further discuss in PMs to forestall further injury to the reputation of our chosen profession, but you respond to my posts to others to continue the debate. Didn't want to get into this but so be it. You must have a different legal specialization -- I get it, when I first started practicing, my jackass friends always asked for advice on their bar fights and speeding tickets even though I've never once practiced criminal law. How courts interpret restraints on labor mobility is Employment Law 101:

All first-year law students learn the rule that “[a] promise to render personal service will not be specifically enforced,” and many of them learn that the Thirteenth Amendment’s prohibition on “involuntary servitude” requires this per se rule. American courts, treatise writers, and commentators frequently justify it on these grounds.

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1073&context=facpubs

And this is coming from a guy arguing that it should work like you suggest -- I chose the source most in favor of you. Every other I could find accepts my position as settled law and the bedrock of Employment Law (which, of course, it is). But even he does and must acknowledge that my interpretation is correct before spending 20 pages arguing for a change. He makes some interesting arguments, give it a read. You're clearly passionate about this. Maybe it'll give you some ideas for how to write your employees' contracts for your business.  

You disagree on principle -- I respect that. You think Watson is a malcontent. I disagree and that's fine. But legally he's well within his rights. And the Texans -- as any employer -- cannot constructively bar you from plying your chosen trade and force you to "go be a real estate agent" or anything else because you refuse to work for them. In a related well-known legal principle, a non-compete clause is only enforceable if it is narrowly-tailored in both time/geography and signed only with an exchange of bona fide consideration. A law firm -- for example -- can bar you from working for their competitor across the street for a year (depending on jurisdiction). They can't make you turn in your bar card at the door and never work as a lawyer again no matter what the contract says. A Court will never uphold a threat of career annihilation if you decide you want out of your contract -- that's why it's a 13th Amendment issue -- yes the Amendment outlawing slavery and involuntary servitude (hey, SCOTUS "found" abortion rights in the 14th Amendment, lol). An illusory choice -- work for us or we vaporize your ability to continue being in this field -- is not a choice. And in fact, your position does a really nice job emphasizing how disparate the power levels are between the league and the union. The NFLPA basically exists to legitimate the league's actions like the Washington Generals to the Globetrotters.

Like I said, I've changed my views quite a lot on this topic. Basically a 180. I was once where you are now. You said in your first reply that I was being emotional by supporting players in these situations. I counter that my "a contract is a contract is a contract, get your ass on the field or GTFO" position (apologies to Gertrude Stein for the unartful paraphrase) was the emotional one.