Deshaunapolooza ****Official Deshaun Watson Speculation Megathread**** (Merged eleventy bajillion times)

[joewilly12]

The Houston Texans might trade quarterback Deshaun Watson.AP

 

By Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Another day, another round of Deshaun Watson trade rumors.

These come from ESPN, which ranked 17 potential deals for the disgruntled Houston Texans quarterback.

No. 7 on the list are the New York Jets:

Jets send: Second and 23rd overall picks in 2021, first-round pick in 2022

Texans send: 2022 sixth-round pick, QB Deshaun Watson

In terms of the draft capital, this is the easiest deal to make. The Texans would be able to draft any quarterback not named Trevor Lawrence with the No. 2 pick. Caserio would probably hold out for the Jets’ first-round pick in 2022 as opposed to Seattle’s pick, but if they can get a Watson deal done, I don’t think Jets general manager Joe Douglas is going to let that stand in the way. The sixth-rounder is a small offering for the Jets making that sacrifice.

[32EBoozer]

32 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Another day, another round of Deshaun Watson trade rumors.

[T0mShane]

Watson’s agent making the larger point that Todd McShay is a huge dipsh*t racist, but interesting that he uses as his examples two QBs tied to the Jets in Darnold and Wilson. 
 

 

[football guy]

On 1/26/2021 at 1:00 PM, bla bla bla said:

I'm not talking about choosing, we are talking about the Texans openly ignoring the input they asked their star QB for. If I ask you for your input and you say

"I would like to see Bieniemy or Saleh get an interview"

And then I turn around and ignore you, literally the only teams not to interview Saleh or Bieniemy (the Bieniemy interview happened only after the media blew everything thing up)

I heard Saleh would have denied to interview with Houston if they put in a formal request. Staley only took the interview because of the John Carroll university connection when Caserio was hired, but his agent advised against that situation as well. 

[football guy]

On 1/26/2021 at 12:31 PM, jgb said:

My friend, I invited you to further discuss in PMs to forestall further injury to the reputation of our chosen profession, but you respond to my posts to others to continue the debate. Didn't want to get into this but so be it. You must have a different legal specialization -- I get it, when I first started practicing, my jackass friends always asked for advice on their bar fights and speeding tickets even though I've never once practiced criminal law. How courts interpret restraints on labor mobility is Employment Law 101:

You're right on you did mention DMs as an avenue to discuss. I missed that. I respect your perspective, but I want to make it clear that your view is not widely accepted. If it was, the NFL wouldn't exist. But I'm glad we can engage in friendly debate even if the contrast in views is stark.

I'm in real estate development law and I own a facilities services company. I would not claim my specialty is employment law. However, having shifted into business ownership and the prospect of employing over 50 persons has absolutely changed my view on the concept. No one person (me or the employees) is bigger than than the "company" in my view both legally and figuratively speaking. 

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The Houston Texans might trade quarterback Deshaun Watson.AP

 

By Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Another day, another round of Deshaun Watson trade rumors.

These come from ESPN, which ranked 17 potential deals for the disgruntled Houston Texans quarterback.

No. 7 on the list are the New York Jets:

Jets send: Second and 23rd overall picks in 2021, first-round pick in 2022

Texans send: 2022 sixth-round pick, QB Deshaun Watson

In terms of the draft capital, this is the easiest deal to make. The Texans would be able to draft any quarterback not named Trevor Lawrence with the No. 2 pick. Caserio would probably hold out for the Jets’ first-round pick in 2022 as opposed to Seattle’s pick, but if they can get a Watson deal done, I don’t think Jets general manager Joe Douglas is going to let that stand in the way. The sixth-rounder is a small offering for the Jets making that sacrifice.

So possibly 5 1st round picks value wise.  #2 overral is worth three 1st rounders then two more.

Again people are lumping 1st rounders into a pot when they have vastly different values.

[football guy]

On 1/26/2021 at 11:56 AM, Wit said:

From a practical standpoint, If Watson sits out and the Texans tank, is that better than getting a haul of picks and he plays next year? 

It's an interesting point. But here's another perspective: 

1. Houston Texans hire underwhelming coaching candidate due to the lack of interest in the job. Candidate signs a 4 year deal, but the Texans will be prepared to release him after the season if all goes sour considering that the coach's contract will be relatively cheap compared to the average coaching salaries in 2021 (think Wilks-Cardinals 2018-19). If this coach overperforms, chance he comes back but it's slim. 
2. Watson sits out and Texans refuse to trade him despite being offered mega-deals. The team refuses to give in to his demands, and threatens that they will fine him and toll his contract if he doesn't play. Watson doesn't care, lets the contract toll, and refuses to play a down for the Texans ever again. 
3. Team goes into the draft with a ho-hum approach. Draft the best players available with what we have. 
4. Deshaun sits out and the Texans issue $5 million in fines and withhold his salary. 
5. Texans tank. They go something like 0-17 or 2-15 since they simply don't have enough talent. 
6. Team fires HC. Coach was given an unfair shake, but the team now has the #1 pick, financial flexibility, and their assets restored after not having 1st and 2nd round picks in 2021. 
7. Team hires Josh McDaniels or another top HC candidate, with an understanding that Deshaun will likely be traded. 
8. Deshaun is put on the market as a 26 year old franchise QB who just sat out a season and still has 5 years left on his contract. 
9. [INSERT TEAM WITH QB NEED] sends Texans the same 3 1st-round picks+ in a trade for Deshaun a year later given that he's remained healthy and still has 5 years left on his deal. Deshaun wants to go to this team and OKs the trade. 
10. Texans enter 2022 Draft with multiple top draft picks to rebuild the roster. 

 

Point being made: whether Deshaun were traded this year or sat out for a year and then got traded, the Texans would still get a massive haul. The coach they choose this cycle probably wouldn't be the coach they really wanted anyway. They're hiring the coach in hopes that they can begin to rebuild the Deshaun relationship. But if it doesn't, see above. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

You're right on you did mention DMs as an avenue to discuss. I missed that. I respect your perspective, but I want to make it clear that your view is not widely accepted. If it was, the NFL wouldn't exist. But I'm glad we can engage in friendly debate even if the contrast in views is stark.

I'm in real estate development law and I own a facilities services company. I would not claim my specialty is employment law. However, having shifted into business ownership and the prospect of employing over 50 persons has absolutely changed my view on the concept. No one person (me or the employees) is bigger than than the "company" in my view both legally and figuratively speaking. 

And there's a reason we call these fictions. Plot doesn't drive character in real life. Organizational behavior is the sum of actions driven by individual incentives. Not that it matters at all but everybody is wrong on the law here. The 13th amendment is not really the reason why courts don't order specific performance of personal services contracts. I think that's just a hornbook thing. If that were actually the case there could not be statutory or contractual exceptions, and in any event the principle predates the existence of the amendment. The real reason is just that courts don't want to be involved in enforcing an ongoing contractual relationship between unwilling counterparts, and the burden  of implementation is always a consideration when weighing equities. The reason for treating real estate differently isn't so much because it's 'unique,' as personal services clearly are too, but because a court can simply order the conveyance or whatever and be done with it. Which brings us back to the main point. This system is what it is about 5% because it bears any relation to how anybody thinks things should actually work and 95% because Gene Upshaw was as dumb as you think Douglas is and as corrupt as I think he is.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Watson’s agent making the larger point that Todd McShay is a huge dipsh*t racist, but interesting that he uses as his examples two QBs tied to the Jets in Darnold and Wilson. 
 

 

Lol it's true not racist.

[Bugg]

On 1/26/2021 at 3:02 PM, doitny said:

these guys are cancers

Jamal didnt make seattle go anywhere in the playoffs.

and without OBJ Cleveland had there best year since Bernie Kosar.

i dont want choir boys. if fact i want the opposite. i dont care what they do in there personal lives. beat your wife, cheat on her, try to murder someone, do drugs. i dont care. just help me win!!

but thats not these guys. they probably would never do those things. there worst for a team. there DIVAS

crying cause your not getting enough catches hurts the team chemistry. making wise coments when your losing hurts the team. demanding to be paid more cause someone else just got paid more hurts the team. 

Kosar pretty much forced his way to Cleveland.

As did Eli Manning to the Giants. 

Or Tom Brady to Tampa.

Or Joe Montana to KC.

Or Steve Young to the Niners.

Or Elway to the Broncos. 

Or Peyton Manning to the Broncos.

Or Joe Namath to the AFC and the Jets. 

None of those guys was a "cancer". 

The rules are different for QBs. And that's how it is, period. 

Watson is not Adams. If I could spell this out in 7 foot tall letters here, I'd do it. 

Watson has never been a "cancer". Quite the opposite. Simply sees his current situation of a franchise run by idiots is untenable. 

Darnold is not any good. Period, end of story, full f___ing stop. 

Question really is what will Joe Douglas be willing to part with to get Watson.  

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

I heard Saleh would have denied to interview with Houston if they put in a formal request. Staley only took the interview because of the John Carroll university connection when Caserio was hired, but his agent advised against that situation as well. 

Ah okay, then perhaps the Texans told Watson that Saleh denied the request and that they didn't want to have a public denial. That would be far smoother of a rationale.

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Watson’s agent making the larger point that Todd McShay is a huge dipsh*t racist, but interesting that he uses as his examples two QBs tied to the Jets in Darnold and Wilson. 
 

 

lol

Watson slightly better than Darnold

wowwowowowowowowowowowow

[football guy]

8 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Ah okay, then perhaps the Texans told Watson that Saleh denied the request and that they didn't want to have a public denial. That would be far smoother of a rationale.

Can't say that for sure. But I do know that Deshaun/his representation reached out to coaching candidates and their agents after the season and what they heard back was the primary reason for this circus. Whether they were in denial, didn't want to displease Deshaun by telling him the truth, or just wanted Deshaun to sign in September so they could get their commission (likely), everyone in the NFL knew that the Texans were a ticking time-bomb. Bill O'Brien the coach and Deshaun Watson the quarterback were their only hope at stabilizing the ship until this offseason, when they would hire Caserio to right the ship. Had the Texans started 1-2, that probably would've happened. But Bill is an angry elf, he's vicious AF, and burned his last ally in Eastby when he felt pinned into a corner after starting 0-3. Many of the FO personnel were already convinced they needed change after the events of last offseason after experiencing the hostile work environment Bill brought into their office as a GM, and once he lost Easterby it was a matter of when not if. The team lost their 4th game and the plug was pulled. 

That's why I get on Deshaun/his reps as not getting enough blame. All this was going on and Deshaun was happy being a Texan and confident that they would be OK. The second they started vetting coaches on their own and they did a 180. It's because they were horrified with what they heard: the top guys wanted no part of a job that was going to be a 2-3 year rebuild even with Deshaun at QB. 

[Shockwave]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Watson’s agent making the larger point that Todd McShay is a huge dipsh*t racist, but interesting that he uses as his examples two QBs tied to the Jets in Darnold and Wilson. 
 

 

If this whole thing is a movie about Deshaun getting moved to NY - This man would be the Hero in it. This man is on top of the situation minute to minute. Love it 

[FidelioJet]

5 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The Houston Texans might trade quarterback Deshaun Watson.AP

 

By Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Another day, another round of Deshaun Watson trade rumors.

These come from ESPN, which ranked 17 potential deals for the disgruntled Houston Texans quarterback.

No. 7 on the list are the New York Jets:

Jets send: Second and 23rd overall picks in 2021, first-round pick in 2022

Texans send: 2022 sixth-round pick, QB Deshaun Watson

In terms of the draft capital, this is the easiest deal to make. The Texans would be able to draft any quarterback not named Trevor Lawrence with the No. 2 pick. Caserio would probably hold out for the Jets’ first-round pick in 2022 as opposed to Seattle’s pick, but if they can get a Watson deal done, I don’t think Jets general manager Joe Douglas is going to let that stand in the way. The sixth-rounder is a small offering for the Jets making that sacrifice.

Do this in a second.  

[football guy]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Watson’s agent making the larger point that Todd McShay is a huge dipsh*t racist, but interesting that he uses as his examples two QBs tied to the Jets in Darnold and Wilson. 
 

 

David Mulugheta is a greedy slimeball who pushed his client to sign a contract extension without warning said client how bad of a situation he was in. If David had his client in mind as opposed to his own pockets, he would've advised Deshaun that the team was unstable and may be headed for a rebuild. But sure. Everyone is a racist. Makes sense. 

Someone should ask David if he returned the commission check he received since Deshaun is dissatisfied with the contract he was advised to sign with the Texans. Guarantee if he responds to you, he'll accuse you of being a racist just for asking the question. 

[FidelioJet]

55 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Kosar pretty much forced his way to Cleveland.

As did Eli Manning to the Giants. 

Or Tom Brady to Tampa.

Or Joe Montana to KC.

Or Steve Young to the Niners.

Or Elway to the Broncos. 

Or Peyton Manning to the Broncos.

Or Joe Namath to the AFC and the Jets. 

None of those guys was a "cancer". 

The rules are different for QBs. And that's how it is, period. 

Watson is not Adams. If I could spell this out in 7 foot tall letters here, I'd do it. 

Watson has never been a "cancer". Quite the opposite. Simply sees his current situation of a franchise run by idiots is untenable. 

Darnold is not any good. Period, end of story, full f___ing stop. 

Question really is what will Joe Douglas be willing to part with to get Watson.  

This is correct.  But I really don't think Watson is going anywhere.

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

David Mulugheta is a greedy slimeball who pushed his client to sign a contract extension without warning said client how bad of a situation he was in. If David had his client in mind as opposed to his own pockets, he would've advised Deshaun that the team was unstable and may be headed for a rebuild. But sure. Everyone is a racist. Makes sense. 

Someone should ask David if he returned the commission check he received since Deshaun is dissatisfied with the contract he was advised to sign with the Texans. Guarantee if he responds to you, he'll accuse you of being a racist just for asking the question. 

It's one thing to not agree with someone or to stand up for you client, but to call out well respected people with no history of bad behavior as racist is just irresponsible...Particularly in this climate.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

David Mulugheta is a greedy slimeball who pushed his client to sign a contract extension without warning said client how bad of a situation he was in. If David had his client in mind as opposed to his own pockets, he would've advised Deshaun that the team was unstable and may be headed for a rebuild. But sure. Everyone is a racist. Makes sense. 

Someone should ask David if he returned the commission check he received since Deshaun is dissatisfied with the contract he was advised to sign with the Texans. Guarantee if he responds to you, he'll accuse you of being a racist just for asking the question. 

I was kidding about the racist part, but I do think it’s a prevailing issue in draft-media circles that they all model their QB evals on Peyton Manning and Brady even as the best QBs in the league have transitioned toward the smaller, more athletic, and consequently, black QB. I think it’s gross what Mulugheta did with Jalen Ramsey and it’s gross what he’s doing with Watson, but if it ends up benefiting the Jets for once, so be it. 

[Larz]

Remember when Jamal was a bad guy for wanting out?

good times lol

[T0mShane]

Just now, Larz said:

Remember when Jamal was a bad guy for wanting out?

good times lol

Hahahahhahaha look at Larz still going for it

[football guy]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I was kidding about the racist part, but I do think it’s a prevailing issue in draft-media circles that they all model their QB evals on Peyton Manning and Brady even as the best QBs in the league have transitioned toward the smaller, more athletic, and consequently, black QB. I think it’s gross what Mulugheta did with Jalen Ramsey and it’s gross what he’s doing with Watson, but if it ends up benefiting the Jets for once, so be it. 

No no I don't want you to confuse my statement as if it was directed at you. In reading David's tweet I sensed he was race baiting. 

[T0mShane]

Just now, football guy said:

No no I don't want you to confuse my statement as if it was directed at you. In reading David's tweet I sensed he was race baiting. 

Oh, he totally was. And you should absolutely feel free to yell at me if you feel compelled to do so. It’s a feature of this website. 

[football guy]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's one thing to not agree with someone or to stand up for you client, but to call out well respected people with no history of bad behavior as racist is just irresponsible...Particularly in this climate.

I have no allegiance to McShay. He's not a great draft analyst. But last I checked he one of the first to get on the Cam Newton train as the top QB in the class when his peers were busy pumping up Locker/Gabbert, he loved Robert Griffin, and he felt Jameis was among the best QB prospects ever. I bet Deshaun is still salty about McShay not having him as his top QB, but no one did. In fact, McShay had Watson as his #2 QB with Mahomes trailing him. 

Still, I have grown so tired of the passive aggressive racist insinuations that have flooded society. I hope Deshaun's agent falls down the stairs tonight (I don't wish *major* harm to him... just pain). 

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I was kidding about the racist part, but I do think it’s a prevailing issue in draft-media circles that they all model their QB evals on Peyton Manning and Brady even as the best QBs in the league have transitioned toward the smaller, more athletic, and consequently, black QB. I think it’s gross what Mulugheta did with Jalen Ramsey and it’s gross what he’s doing with Watson, but if it ends up benefiting the Jets for once, so be it. 

Don't back off. 

You are 100% correct. The vast majority of these folks are not consciously racist. They are subconsciously racist. They have preconceived notions about what a good QB looks like and those notions are absolutely impacted by race. It's the same reason people on this board have been comparing Justin Fields to Geno Smith . . . 

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The Houston Texans might trade quarterback Deshaun Watson.AP

 

By Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Another day, another round of Deshaun Watson trade rumors.

These come from ESPN, which ranked 17 potential deals for the disgruntled Houston Texans quarterback.

No. 7 on the list are the New York Jets:

Jets send: Second and 23rd overall picks in 2021, first-round pick in 2022

Texans send: 2022 sixth-round pick, QB Deshaun Watson

In terms of the draft capital, this is the easiest deal to make. The Texans would be able to draft any quarterback not named Trevor Lawrence with the No. 2 pick. Caserio would probably hold out for the Jets’ first-round pick in 2022 as opposed to Seattle’s pick, but if they can get a Watson deal done, I don’t think Jets general manager Joe Douglas is going to let that stand in the way. The sixth-rounder is a small offering for the Jets making that sacrifice.

 

Not afraid to say that I'm probably one of the few who thinks that's too much to give up.  Three 1st round picks INCLUDING the #2 overall is the kind of Hershel Walker trade that propels the team receiving the draft picks, not the recipient of the player.  No, I'm not saying Watson is like Hershel Walker.  Yes, I understand a franchise QB is monumentally more valuable than a RB.  But the Jets aren't a QB away.  The Jets need many more players and trading away a #2 pick (which could be used to trade down for multiple more 1sts), another 1st in '22 and a 1st in '23?  That's the kind of move that Ozzie Newsome's evil nemesis in a bad movie would make.

How do you build the Jets roster without picks?  Do you pull out the Mike Maccagnan playbook of overspending in FA?  And, if you're going to tell me that DeShaun Watson would raise the level of play of the guys around him and can carry a team that doesn't have a great roster then I will point you to how well that worked this year with the 4-12 Texans.

JMHO.

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Don't back off. 

You are 100% correct. The vast majority of these folks are not consciously racist. They are subconsciously racist. They have preconceived notions about what a good QB looks like and those notions are absolutely impacted by race. It's the same reason people on this board have been comparing Justin Fields to Geno Smith . . . 

I think that’s true, but my calling McShay a huge racist isn’t exactly the same as saying McShay has an issue with modeling his prototype QBs on increasingly antiquated stereotypes. I think McShay sucks at his job for a lot of reasons, but I don’t think he’s explicitly racist. 

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Don't back off. 

You are 100% correct. The vast majority of these folks are not consciously racist. They are subconsciously racist. They have preconceived notions about what a good QB looks like and those notions are absolutely impacted by race. It's the same reason people on this board have been comparing Justin Fields to Geno Smith . . . 

I'm rolling my eyes 

[TommyT]

Regarding Watson - Pro Football Network’s Tony Pauline reported, based on conversations that he’s had, that “speculation by league decision-makers at the Senior Bowl [has] smart money on the New York Jets.”

[football guy]

I love Lamar the football player. Really do. He helped me win a fantasy championship and is amongst the most fascinating players to watch in football. Guaranteed in 4 years from now when there is buyer's remorse on his contract, people will be blaming the Ravens for not being "progressive enough" to develop an offense in order to accommodate a QB "who looks and plays like he does". After all, the position itself is systemically racist because high school coaches and football camps used to be smart enough to focus their best athletes in positions that gave them the best chance at landing scholarships and ultimately a better chance at becoming pros. But nope, because people value QBs "who look like Peyton and Brady" and that it happens to be a "white" dominant position, it's subconsciously racist. Just like the FB position. Just like OL. Just like K's and P's. Give me a fling break.

I really just hate how people try to interject race politics into football. It's so fling low and disgusting.

[Ben Had]

24 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Don't back off. 

You are 100% correct. The vast majority of these folks are not consciously racist. They are subconsciously racist. They have preconceived notions about what a good QB looks like and those notions are absolutely impacted by race. It's the same reason people on this board have been comparing Justin Fields to Geno Smith . . . 

WOW...look in the mirror...

[T0mShane]

To get back on topic a bit, I just found it interesting that Mulugheta was very intentional In tying Deshaun to Darnold and Zack Wilson, and targeting McShay specifically for it, even though every draft guy basically has and had the same rankings and critiques of these prospects. No doubt Mulugheta knows that McShay had Joe Douglas’ ear (and vice versa). Because I love conspiracies, it seems to be a little message-sending that the Jets aren’t going to do better than Watson. 

[FidelioJet]

38 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Don't back off. 

You are 100% correct. The vast majority of these folks are not consciously racist. They are subconsciously racist. They have preconceived notions about what a good QB looks like and those notions are absolutely impacted by race. It's the same reason people on this board have been comparing Justin Fields to Geno Smith . . . 

Virtually this entire board wants Watson..and willing to give up 3 to 4 first round picks for him.

You're literally writing this is a 26 page thread - where the VAST majority of this board desperately want Watson. 

 

[slimjasi]

39 minutes ago, football guy said:

I'm rolling my eyes 

oh no, what will I do!

The football guy doesn't approve

[slimjasi]

42 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think that’s true, but my calling McShay a huge racist isn’t exactly the same as saying McShay has an issue with modeling his prototype QBs on increasingly antiquated stereotypes. I think McShay sucks at his job for a lot of reasons, but I don’t think he’s explicitly racist. 

Nor do I