Jump to content

Deshaunapolooza ****Official Deshaun Watson Speculation Megathread**** (Merged eleventy bajillion times)


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

All that really needs to be said, but thanks for coming to bat for me.

I've changed my profile and cover photos in honor of the man who's about to do so much to change the fortunes of the Jets for the better. 

What scares me is that Deshaun is gonna read this thread and find out about Staten Island.

Posted Images

24 minutes ago, football guy said:

They still get paid lol. That's what a contract is for. That's what a negotiation is about. Good agents know what is important to their clients and negotiate to those ends. 

If a player fears of getting cut and wants to protect their long-term future: take less base salary in exchange for more guaranteed money in future years. If a player fears of getting traded, see that a no-trade clause is incorporated in the contract; in return, the team will ask that you take a reduced salary. This is what contract negotiation is all about... 

OK.  And Watson assumed that when he was made the central part of the franchise via his big contract, that they'd work to build around him effectively.  They failed at that miserably, so he wants out.  Similarly, if Watson didn't continue to play at a high level, the Texans would be looking to get rid of him on the basis of his play.  

Contracts are fluid over time, not static.  Just because you sign it at one time doesn't mean circumstances can't change as quickly as a year later.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

True, but if pro players refused to play for racist owners, there would be no pro sports.  

I get that, but let’s not pretend all these issues didn’t exist before he signed the contract.  The cap, the lack of draft picks, bat s**t crazy Easterby, and poor roster were already in place when he took the money.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I get that, but let’s not pretend all these issues didn’t exist before he signed the contract.  The cap, the lack of draft picks, bat s**t crazy Easterby, and poor roster were already in place when he took the money.  

Those circumstances were in place, but they weren't as bad as they are now.  The situation deteriorated, starting with the Hopkins trade, furthered by the end-of-season speech by Easterby where he disrespected JJ Watt, and headlined by the GM hire.

People get married to each other, even when there are red flags.  Things can get rocky.  Then they can get bad.  Then they divorce.  This doesn't happen all at once, nor do people always make the right call early on.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Gotta out bid miami, gotta strike while the iron is hot.

Not so sure about the need to "outbid". If Watson wants to come primarily to the Jets, then the Texans and Jets just need to come to agreement on compensation. Watson can veto any other trade.

Then, it is up to the Texans whether they want negotiate and accept the Jets offer, or just live with a disgruntled QB for 2 years.

Jets can play this smartly. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, nycdan said:

4-12

To the rest of your post, if JD values #2 as much as 3 average first-round picks, then it stands to reason HOU should too.  The optics are that they want 'a boatload' of first round picks, but really, they want value.  They could take #2 and instead of picking a QB, they could trade down and probably get a first round pick this year high enough to take a good QB prospect and a first round next year as well.  They could parlay it into any number of packages that suit them.  They might even want to set that up and trigger the trades simultaneously.

Let's say HOU was content with 3 1sts from SF.  He could take #2 plus our next year's 1st rounder, then trade #2 to DET or CAR and get their #7 or #8 and their 2nd this year and 1st next year.  Now they have their 3 1st round picks ,plus a 2nd and the top pick is higher than SFs #12.

That's why it would be so hard for SF to step up to the plate here.  We can give up two firsts that are worth substantially more than their next 3 firsts.  And we'd still have a pick in each 1st round to boot.  HOU is going to have to sort through a lot of scenarios to find the right one but if they are serious about moving Watson, I like our chances a lot.

Very good points and maybe Houston will consider. But the concept that the Jets will include multiple #1s including #2 just makes no sense to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Not bad but swap Darnold for the 2 this year. That is a high 2.

I’d do that in a second. That should be a no-brainer. We’ll still have Seattle’s pick this year and our 1st round pick next year. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There is going to be a bidding war if Watson does get traded.  Joe D really values draft picks and is not going to outbid the other teams.  Hes conservative when it comes to that and probably multiple teams will outbid the jets.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

4-12

To the rest of your post, if JD values #2 as much as 3 average first-round picks, then it stands to reason HOU should too.  The optics are that they want 'a boatload' of first round picks, but really, they want value.  They could take #2 and instead of picking a QB, they could trade down and probably get a first round pick this year high enough to take a good QB prospect and a first round next year as well.  They could parlay it into any number of packages that suit them.  They might even want to set that up and trigger the trades simultaneously.

Let's say HOU was content with 3 1sts from SF.  He could take #2 plus our next year's 1st rounder, then trade #2 to DET or CAR and get their #7 or #8 and their 2nd this year and 1st next year.  Now they have their 3 1st round picks ,plus a 2nd and the top pick is higher than SFs #12.

That's why it would be so hard for SF to step up to the plate here.  We can give up two firsts that are worth substantially more than their next 3 firsts.  And we'd still have a pick in each 1st round to boot.  HOU is going to have to sort through a lot of scenarios to find the right one but if they are serious about moving Watson, I like our chances a lot.

Agree, two is super valuable. It’s a high pick and high pick this year. In trades a future pick is generally worth half or down a round. Ergo Seattle’s two first round picks they traded for Adams are currently worth somewhat between 1100 and 1150 points on the valve chart, that’s equivalent to between picks 13 and 14. 

Pick 2 is worth 2600 on the value chart, more than double that.

People talk about Carolina - that eighth pick is worth like just over half - 1400. Even if you’re generous and call both their 2022 and 2023 first rounders worth half of that, you get to 200 points of value more than the second pick alone with three first rounders from them. 

I think there’s a lot of grey area there of course, and these aren’t necessarily hard and fast rules. But if that’s the value of the pick on draft day I have to imagine it’s roughly in that ballpark when evaluating trades. It’s why teams like Seattle and the Rams are the ones trading multiple future firsts for guys - they’re not as valuable.

None of this is to say that the Jets wouldn’t necessarily have to give up more than the second pick or a lot for Watson. Just that the second pick is really valuable in those conversations and I think it gives them a leg up in trade negotiations if Houston wants to go the trade route.

Everyone’s talking about X first round picks and comparing to the Adams and Ramsey trades and there’s a lot more to it than that IMO.

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the #2 this year (which addresses their QB need) and one first round pick next year, plus maybe a 3rd either year is about as rich an offer as they would get from any other team except maybe MIA.  We'd still have a pick in every round both years so I don't consider it a huge ransom.  Basically it's like trading Jamal a year early to get Watson, which is unbelievable. 

Again, the optics of only getting two 1st round picks might be tough for HOU to swallow, but if they set up a trade to convert #2 into two first round picks plus more, then could say they got their three first rounders plus more.  Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's a&& what they decide to do with the pick at that point.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, nycdan said:

4-12

To the rest of your post, if JD values #2 as much as 3 average first-round picks, then it stands to reason HOU should too.  The optics are that they want 'a boatload' of first round picks, but really, they want value.  They could take #2 and instead of picking a QB, they could trade down and probably get a first round pick this year high enough to take a good QB prospect and a first round next year as well.  They could parlay it into any number of packages that suit them.  They might even want to set that up and trigger the trades simultaneously.

Let's say HOU was content with 3 1sts from SF.  He could take #2 plus our next year's 1st rounder, then trade #2 to DET or CAR and get their #7 or #8 and their 2nd this year and 1st next year.  Now they have their 3 1st round picks ,plus a 2nd and the top pick is higher than SFs #12.

That's why it would be so hard for SF to step up to the plate here.  We can give up two firsts that are worth substantially more than their next 3 firsts.  And we'd still have a pick in each 1st round to boot.  HOU is going to have to sort through a lot of scenarios to find the right one but if they are serious about moving Watson, I like our chances a lot.

This guy gets it 

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

OK.  And Watson assumed that when he was made the central part of the franchise via his big contract, that they'd work to build around him effectively.  They failed at that miserably, so he wants out.  Similarly, if Watson didn't continue to play at a high level, the Texans would be looking to get rid of him on the basis of his play.  

Contracts are fluid over time, not static.  Just because you sign it at one time doesn't mean circumstances can't change as quickly as a year later.

There's an old saying: when you assume, you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". 

No player in the NFL has the power to choose the GM. None. Furthermore, he signed his extension on September 3, 2020... after 2020 free agency, after 2020 draft, all while knowing the Texans would have no money to spend on free agents in 2021 and didn't have 1st and 2nd round picks in the 2021 draft. What else were the Texans going to do to "build" around him between when he signed and now? Nothing. 

People need to stop sucking the guy's ___ and just acknowledge that his reps screwed up by having him sign the extension if all of these things you mentioned were what he was "assuming" when signing the deal... it was clear as day that the Texans were in for a rebuild to anyone that had an ounce of football knowledge. 

  • Upvote 3
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, football guy said:

Who were the players? Eli Manning was a coward, John Elway was a coward. But with respect to them, they had zero control where they were going and never even stepped foot in the buildings of the teams that drafted them. They made it clear they were never going to play for those teams. Deshaun established himself with an organization, took the money when he was offered it, now is crying that he needs to be traded. He's being even more cowardice then they were. 

As far as the Texans building around Watson: who is Deshaun to tell the team, a multi-billion dollar organization, how to build around him? If he didn't like their plan to build around him, he shouldn't have signed a long-term agreement. No one put a gun to his head, he signed on himself. 

People really don't hold anyone accountable these days... no individuality, no individual responsibility. Not hard to like Watson, want Watson, and acknowledge that the guy signed a contract that pays him over $100 million dollars that he was not forced to sign... yes the Texans are dysfunctional; what does that make Deshaun's advisors for having him sign a long-term agreement? Could've easily signed a 2-year, $70 million extension with no-franchise tag clause, but he didn't go that route. His fault. What am I supposed to feel sorry for him now? Sheesh. 

Elway had some leverage, he could go play for the Yankees.

Bo Jackson was the other one.   He got pissed at the Bucs for messing up his college eligibility, and refused to play for them.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, chirorob said:

Elway had some leverage, he could go play for the Yankees.

Bo Jackson was the other one.   He got pissed at the Bucs for messing up his college eligibility, and refused to play for them.  

I know a lot about football history but as a 29 year old I don’t have that deep of knowledge. Interesting to know. 

Again I think some of the difference with these college guys is that they have never played for the organization yet and trying to control where they end up. I’m not a fan of it, but it’s not like they already played for the organization for 3 years, signed an extension, then 4 months later said “I don’t want to play here”... if you didn’t want to play there why did you sign the contract? If your answer is you needed to cash in then tough sh*t

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, football guy said:

Joe Montana and Brett Favre were at the end of their careers with 1-year left on their contracts, retiring/unretiring, and the teams wanted to move forward with their young, promising players (Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young, who won an MVP during the 2 years Montana didn't play...). Totally different situations and although the QB wanted to come back and start for their teams, I could understand the team not wanting them to/the player wanting out. 

Yes, Carson Palmer was a coward as well, but at least he was a man of his word. He retired and forfeited his salary instead of playing for the team he felt let him down. He was very transparent about his desire to move on and didn't use excuses and narratives for wanting out (i.e. social injustice, head coach selection, gm selection, etc.). In the end, he retired, and the Bengals traded him when it made sense to. In order to facilitate a trade, he took a pay-cut. 

As far as Jay Cutler, the team tried trading him in a deal to acquire Matt Cassel and he found out about it. In fact, the team wanted to deal him. At that point he asked the team to trade him. He didn't make demands, he didn't turn to the media, he didn't make up reasons for not wanting to be there, and most significantly, he didn't sign an extension 5-months prior then say "I refuse to play here." The team wanted to move on from him. 

 

I'm being foolish? OK pal. Stafford went to the team and proposed a mutual breakup. They convinced him to wait and allow them to discuss it with candidates and let it all play out. In the end, they all agreed. This is also a Stafford who didn't sign a contract 5 months ago... this is also a Stafford who didn't use the media as a means to pull every single excuse out of the bag as to why he didn't want to play for the Lions anymore. He did it professionally, and I won't get into the hypotheticals of what he would've done if the Lions say no. That's not my department. But if he started leaking to the media that he wants out because of X-Y-Z I would say yes he's a coward. He signed a contract; if he asked to be traded and the team said no, either live with it or retire. Period. 

It's very clear-cut for a non-fanatic to see: Deshaun Watson signed his contract 4 months and 20 days ago. If he was displeased he should have not signed. If he wanted to protect himself from being stuck in Houston he could've signed a shorter agreement or none at all. He could've negotiated a no-franchise tag clause among other things. They didn't. Sorry, his agents are being a bunch of cucks. They screwed up, and now they're trying to use different narratives to explain why they want out. In my mind this is no different than Myles Garrett smashing a guy in the head with a helmet and saying "well I did it because of a racial slur he used that no one else heard"... Please. 

If Deshaun gets traded to the Jets for a reasonable amount I'll be thrilled. That said, I don't have to blindly defend the guy. I think what his reps are doing is cowardice and unprofessional. 

 

 

 

Way too much anti-Watson sentiment here.  Not enough "Texans are dumb and bad" sentiment.  I'll leave it at that.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, football guy said:

I know a lot about football history but as a 29 year old I don’t have that deep of knowledge. Interesting to know. 

Again I think some of the difference with these college guys is that they have never played for the organization yet and trying to control where they end up. I’m not a fan of it, but it’s not like they already played for the organization for 3 years, signed an extension, then 4 months later said “I don’t want to play here”... if you didn’t want to play there why did you sign the contract? If your answer is you needed to cash in then tough sh*t

Oh, totally agree.

The Elway story is interesting.   The Colts were a dumpster fire, with a moronic owner.   That year John was also a 1st round pick by the Yankees, he was a great athlete with a cannon for a throwing arm.   That gave him unique leverage over the Colts.

Bo, the Bucs flew him out to Tampa, which ruined his college eligibility for baseball his last year there.  He was so mad, he told them "I will never play for you".   They drafted him #1 overall, and he went to play for the Royals.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I think the #2 this year (which addresses their QB need) and one first round pick next year, plus maybe a 3rd either year is about as rich an offer as they would get from any other team except maybe MIA.  We'd still have a pick in every round both years so I don't consider it a huge ransom.  Basically it's like trading Jamal a year early to get Watson, which is unbelievable. 

Again, the optics of only getting two 1st round picks might be tough for HOU to swallow, but if they set up a trade to convert #2 into two first round picks plus more, then could say they got their three first rounders plus more.  Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's a&& what they decide to do with the pick at that point.  

I think the conversation is hey if it’s an optics issue then you’re welcome to take 23, Seattle’s first next year, and our first in 2023 if that’s more appealing than 2 and another first.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TokyoJetsFan said:

Begins at 5:55 best one ive heard yet

“if I’m the bears or 49ers I’m calling Texas and offering my first round pick for every year Watson is on my roster after the trade.maybe put a 9 or 10 year limit on it.”

lol wtf ...these guys get paid for these takes

Imagine how quickly a GM would get fired for trading 5-10 first round picks?

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

To be fair, the owner was already a racist billionaire when Deshaun took the $27M signing bonus.  

If the owner is racist, let's trade all our white guys for Deshuan, plus a 5th maybe.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony Pauline's thoughts on this:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-free-agency-news-rumors-2021-senior-bowl/

 

Deshaun Watson to the New York Jets?

League insiders at the Senior Bowl confirm the reports we’ve been hearing the past two weeks on Deshaun Watson — he wants out of Houston. While it’s been framed that Texans QB Deshaun Watson is unhappy about the choice of Nick Caserio as general manager and not having input in the decision, many here say Watson is more upset over losing out to executive vice president of football operations Jack Easterby.

In essence, the Texans chose Easterby over Watson. This NFL news should come as no surprise as I mentioned during the Draft Insiders podcast immediately after Bill O’Brien was fired, the franchise was putting Easterby in charge.

So who is the frontrunner for Watson? Speculation, and I repeat — speculation — by league decision-makers at the Senior Bowl have smart money on the New York Jets.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Wit said:

I think Watson is a good hearted kid. That’s the problem though, he’s a kid and he’s been taken advantage of by his agents and his team. They threw a ton of money at him and he couldn’t say no. I think Watt probably had a talk with him a few times this season and opened his eyes. It’s a toxic situation and he was too immature to see it. Now he is trying to harden his way out, and he may be able tO pull it off despite the nfl giving not one flying **** about their players wants and needs. 

All of this could be true, but ultimately are just assumptions. We have no idea what Watt may or may not have said. I too agree that Watson is a great kid; so is the kid who takes out a $50,000 high interest loan, or the kid who places his trust in the wrong people. Things happen; own it. Deshaun should go ask for a trade citing these issues, or seek to resolve them. Allowing his reps to cry to the media in order to shift public opinion is extremely unprofessional and unwarranted. The organization just made him the 2nd highest paid player in the NFL—asked him what he wanted and gave it to him. 5 months later you’re going to kick them while they’re down and insinuate they’re a bunch of incompetent racists unworthy of you? That’s a low blow and beneath the character of who I thought Deshaun was if you ask me. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Oh, totally agree.

The Elway story is interesting.   The Colts were a dumpster fire, with a moronic owner.   That year John was also a 1st round pick by the Yankees, he was a great athlete with a cannon for a throwing arm.   That gave him unique leverage over the Colts.

Bo, the Bucs flew him out to Tampa, which ruined his college eligibility for baseball his last year there.  He was so mad, he told them "I will never play for you".   They drafted him #1 overall, and he went to play for the Royals.

I spent my youth there. Would see The Oneonta Ysnkees alot.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like it is true that Watson is pulling a slimy move here, but also that the Texans situation has become more and more untenable as Easterby has taken on an ever-increasing role in the organization. I think it’s likely Watson didn’t think that the owner was going to let the Team Pastor pick the coach and GM, and if I saw something like that at my workplace, I’d probably start sending out my résumé too. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom Line, I think we have to do what it takes to get Watson. he is a bonafide top 5 QB who is only 25 years old. This type of opportunity almost never ever happens. The fact that reports state that he WANTS to come to the NYJ makes this even more necessary. 

The #2 Pick this year is worth a ton and we can also offer our #23 pick from Seattle plus Our #1 rd pick next year and kick in Darnold as well if they want. The texans can then roll with Darnold and trade the #2 pick for a boatload more picks OR they can trade Darnold and take a QB at#2 this year. Either way 3 first round picks would be a ton for the Texans. 

What do you guys think the draft package would be for Watson?

 

LL

  • Post of the Week 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Marshmello said:

Tony Pauline's thoughts on this:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-free-agency-news-rumors-2021-senior-bowl/

 

Deshaun Watson to the New York Jets?

League insiders at the Senior Bowl confirm the reports we’ve been hearing the past two weeks on Deshaun Watson — he wants out of Houston. While it’s been framed that Texans QB Deshaun Watson is unhappy about the choice of Nick Caserio as general manager and not having input in the decision, many here say Watson is more upset over losing out to executive vice president of football operations Jack Easterby.

In essence, the Texans chose Easterby over Watson. This NFL news should come as no surprise as I mentioned during the Draft Insiders podcast immediately after Bill O’Brien was fired, the franchise was putting Easterby in charge.

So who is the frontrunner for Watson? Speculation, and I repeat — speculation — by league decision-makers at the Senior Bowl have smart money on the New York Jets.

This is the crazy part.  Easterby has absolutely no business being in charge of football anything.  

More is coming out now about how much power he has achieved by being the whisper in owner Cal McNair's ear.

Quote

According to reports per FanSided’s Matt Verderame, some believe that Executive Vice President of Football Operations Jack Easterby will single-handedly set back Texans’ organization for years to come.

“The guys I trust, including a guy big in Houston, he wants to kill him,” a well-connected league source told Verderame. “He goes ‘this guy is a f***ing idiot. He’s got the owner’s ear and he’s going to ruin the whole organization.’”

The current and former players seem to all despise him.  And his only experience before becoming head of football operations in HOU was apparently being the team chaplain for the Patriots.  How in the world does that make any sense?

And btw, is this a face you would trust anything to?

easterby_biocard

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...