ZW All-22 Breakdown

[BurntDice]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I try not to venture into the headspace of anyone who would choose to live in Jacksonville.

No income tax and you get A LOT more house for your money. I left the tri state area because I refuse to pay 600k for a 3br -4br.  Property taxes are also in the 3k range compared to 10k in nj. I moved to NC tho and not FL

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, rtnelson said:

Absolutely, we have no idea if the play was designed one way or the other, or if they weren't on the same page.  Definitely no conclusion to be reached there.  But we can conclude it wasn't just an obviously bad pass.

apparently not. 

 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’ll look at it. I’m not trying to rag on Wilson too much. He showed progress, etc, but if you guys are encouraged by Wilson’s rookie season so far, you had to think Darnold’s rookie year portended superstardom by comparison. 

Fair....

I have to say he wasn't nearly as ready as I thought he was...But I am encouraged by the progress he's making.  I am still confident he will get it right and be our guy.

But your statement about being encouraged by his overall performance this year - is a valid point.  Overall he hasn't been good.  But I think at this point I'm just trying to recognize it for what it is.

A kid that wasn't ready to start was thrown into the deep end, sunk pretty quickly - but is righting his way back up - and doing a nice job of it..  A long way to go still, but it's okay to evaluate a game like Sunday with a positive outlook.

[peekskill68]

Let's also not lose sight of the fact that his QB coach Knapp was tragically killed right at the start of training camp.  The Jets adding Beck to the staff mid-season has to be to factored in as well... 

[Hex]

28 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

No, it isn't.  "Better" is a relative term.  "Outstanding" means "exceptionally good".  

Exceptionally good compared to how he has played before. A 2 year old's drawing can be outstanding, that doesn't mean it's like the Mona Lisa. It's good compared to how they've drawn before. Same with Zach. His game was outstanding compared to how he had played before. 

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, Hex said:

Exceptionally good compared to how he has played before. A 2 year old's drawing can be outstanding, that doesn't mean it's like the Mona Lisa. It's good compared to how they've drawn before. Same with Zach. His game was outstanding compared to how he had played before. 

So you're saying:

Zach Wilson played outstanding for him

[Hex]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

So you're saying:

Zach Wilson played outstanding for him

That's what I think the breakdown dude is saying. I think Wilson played better, but it certainly wasn't outstanding for him. Outstanding for him would be an almost complete lack of most of his issue, with 1 or 2 bad throws. He had a plethora of those, but he for the most part was much better.

[32EBoozer]

4 hours ago, oatmeal said:

No point those guys are dug in the Zach is terrible camp..

 

it’s sad really when you think both @TomShaneand @Irish Jet wanted to keep darnold for a 4th year but can’t give Wilson a break during his rookie season. 

Actually @T0mShane wanted to trade for DW like me. No SD and no ZW..... only Tom, "MassageBoy" @Jetsfan80 and myself.

[Irish Jet]

4 hours ago, oatmeal said:

it’s sad really when you think both @TomShaneand @Irish Jet wanted to keep darnold for a 4th year

lol what?

I was completely done with Darnold. I was even on board with Zach. The only one I didn’t want was Justin Fields.

Why do you guys hate reality?

 

[Hex]

Just for the record, in 5 years whichever QB from this class is the best, I am saying right now that is going to be the best QB. Now I can say what everybody else is saying and be right

[T0mShane]

52 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

This is the type of post that keeps this debate going and spawns more vitriol between "sides".  You're seemingly more desperate to argue for the sake of arguing than anything.  I think I am starting to understand your signature now.

I’m not arguing, really. What is there to argue? 

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Actually @T0mShane wanted to trade for DW like me. No SD and no ZW..... only Tom, "MassageBoy" @Jetsfan80 and myself.

Steve Young was on Michael Kay yesterday and they were asking him about Lamar Jackson and the state of QB play. Unprompted, Young says that DeShaun Watson is the one guy in football who he thinks can challenge for becoming the best player of all time. Naturally, he qualified it by saying Watson has his off the field issues to deal with first, but he’s the one player with all the requisite skills to be the GOAT. 

[T0mShane]

47 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Fair....

I have to say he wasn't nearly as ready as I thought he was...But I am encouraged by the progress he's making.  I am still confident he will get it right and be our guy.

But your statement about being encouraged by his overall performance this year - is a valid point.  Overall he hasn't been good.  But I think at this point I'm just trying to recognize it for what it is.

A kid that wasn't ready to start was thrown into the deep end, sunk pretty quickly - but is righting his way back up - and doing a nice job of it..  A long way to go still, but it's okay to evaluate a game like Sunday with a positive outlook.

The funny thing is that 99% of people in here are saying it was an encouraging performance and the fight is over the extent to which it was encouraging

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Lawrence’s receiving corps is Laviska Shenault, Laquon Treadwell, James O’Shaughnessy, and Marvin Jones.

Marvin Jones has been more productive than Corey Davis in his career. 
The Jags have a very good young RB.

Both teams suck at TE.

In the 3 games Lawrence played with DJ Chark, he had a poor QBR as well. Threw 7 INTs in those games.

Both QBs have struggled and it’s not because of weapons. Poor Decision making and accuracy have plagued both of them.

 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Both QBs have struggled and it’s not because of weapons. Poor Decision making and accuracy have plagued both of them.

 

Rookie QBs struggle with poor decision making and accuracy . . . subscribe to read more!

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

I agree for the most part, but he didn’t play much in the 2nd half. The game was step in the right direction.  All i care about 

There was some baby steps but this TOP argument is BS. We had the same amount of possessions as Philly. We just did nothing with them. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

He played a fine game. If he was a veteran you wouldn't even think twice of it - it was an average game.

The most average QB this year based on most metrics has been Teddy Bridgewater.  His average game this year:  2.7 TDs, 0.6 INTs, 7.3 YPA, 95.0 QB Rating.

Wilson's final line on Sunday:  2 TDs (1 rushing), 1 INT, 6.0 YPA, 84.0 QB Rating.

The TD's were certainly nice but otherwise this was a below average game for NFL veteran standards.  Given that this was Wilson's 2nd best game of his career to date, that's concerning.  

[Jetsfan80]

38 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Rookie QBs struggle with poor decision making and accuracy . . . subscribe to read more!

Very, very few (if any) struggle to the extent that Wilson has and end up successful pro QB's.  

[JustInFudge]

57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Steve Young was on Michael Kay yesterday and they were asking him about Lamar Jackson and the state of QB play. Unprompted, Young says that DeShaun Watson is the one guy in football who he thinks can challenge for becoming the best player of all time. Naturally, he qualified it by saying Watson has his off the field issues to deal with first, but he’s the one player with all the requisite skills to be the GOAT. 

Clearly, Steve Young knows nothing about the importance of MPH.

[Dunnie]

I just watched the whole video and I came away rolling my eyes. You can make a narrative  to make anyone look good or bad. We don't  know what the route was on the first incomplete pass to Moore. He is correct that Moore broke off the route in man coverage and it appears they weren't  on the same page, but it actually looked like Moore made a good read running open instead of challenging the DB to catch what would have been a contested ball. This is not as bad if that was what it was. It is just familiarity.  The long pass to Moore where Zach had a rush in his face was a prayer. Moore was covered and we aren't  talking about a guy like Diggs who is going to out muscle the DB, Moore needs space to make plays. That said, Zach was great in the first half. I thought the light had gone on but he went back to bad mechanics,  poor throws, and bad decisions  in the second half. I think he has made a better effort in putting together  a complete game by starting out well but still needs to do it. 

You cannot anticipate a broke off route before it happens unless you have an understanding with the receiver ... Zach threw the ball where only his guy could get it and his guy was not where he was expected to be.

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[Chrebetfan80]

5 hours ago, maury77 said:

The whole problem with Luke Grant's analysis is that he assumes that the route calls for Moore to keep running towards the sideline. Why is one assuming that Moore ran the route wrong? Because it is man coverage Moore's route automatically calls for him to keep running towards the sideline? That's a lot of assumption on Grant's part. 

Looks to be a flood concept.  Nice design with the flat being attacked by a shallow cross.  I would assume the same as this is the plan with most flood concepts.  Take the top off, high low the flat defender.  In this case they run it in a way that would attack zone and man coverage.  

The timing seems to be with the way moore decided to break off his route here.  No need for a reverse pivot on the release, but looks like he was hard selling the post fake to break to an out and chose to reverse pivot as he would on a whip. Not sure which person was wrong, but It would appear zach was expecting a speed cut off the top of the route where moore went with his post whip break.  

My personal opinion, id rather a speed cut there to work away from the defender as he already was in the defenders blind spot and had his hips turned the wrong way.  So me just as a pure observer here would say thats on moore more so than on Zach.  

[Dunnie]

There was some baby steps but this TOP argument is BS. We had the same amount of possessions as Philly. We just did nothing with them. 

Did you watch the game ? We had 3 plays in the 3rd quarter.

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[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So you're saying:

Zach Wilson played outstanding for him

What’s the point of your argument?  
 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

lol what?

I was completely done with Darnold. I was even on board with Zach. The only one I didn’t want was Justin Fields.

Why do you guys hate reality?

 

WE HATE YOU!!!

[J_Smith]

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The most average QB this year based on most metrics has been Teddy Bridgewater.  His average game this year:  2.7 TDs, 0.6 INTs, 7.3 YPA, 95.0 QB Rating.

Wilson's final line on Sunday:  2 TDs (1 rushing), 1 INT, 6.0 YPA, 84.0 QB Rating.

The TD's were certainly nice but otherwise this was a below average game for NFL veteran standards.  Given that this was Wilson's 2nd best game of his career to date, that's concerning.  

Lol of his career to date? You mean his 8th game? Yes 3 tds in his 8th game is concerning….

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, J_Smith said:

Lol of his career to date? You mean his 8th game? Yes 3 tds in his 8th game is concerning….

Yes, of his career to date.  8 games in and he's had 1 good game (Titans), one meh game (Eagles), and 6 god awful games.  Excuse me if I'm not encouraged by that.  Darnold was better than Wilson over the course of his first 8 games.  Darnold.

[Jet Nut]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The most average QB this year based on most metrics has been Teddy Bridgewater.  His average game this year:  2.7 TDs, 0.6 INTs, 7.3 YPA, 95.0 QB Rating.

Wilson's final line on Sunday:  2 TDs (1 rushing), 1 INT, 6.0 YPA, 84.0 QB Rating.

The TD's were certainly nice but otherwise this was a below average game for NFL veteran standards.  Given that this was Wilson's 2nd best game of his career to date, that's concerning.  

And why would it be concerning to you that a rookie in his 8th game ever, playing on a young team with holes everywhere isnt putting numbers up to or above the leagues 16 best QBs? 

[More Cowbell]

26 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You cannot anticipate a broke off route before it happens unless you have an understanding with the receiver ... Zach threw the ball where only his guy could get it and his guy was not where he was expected to be.

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Actually if the route was a read by the WR, he can go where the open area is. Knowing how his WR will run in that part of the field is what they mean by being on the same page. 

[TuscanyTile2]

23 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What’s the point of your argument?  
 

To clarify what he meant by "outstanding".  

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Actually if the route was a read by the WR, he can go where the open area is. Knowing how his WR will run in that part of the field is what they mean by being on the same page. 

Actually Moore had a defender to his inside and Zach threw it to the outside while Moore decided to turn in, towards the defender.  Id guess Moore read that wrong and should have turned out

[More Cowbell]

24 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Did you watch the game ? We had 3 plays in the 3rd quarter.

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Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I just said the time of POS is not relevant. The Eagle made a long drive, we get the ball back and go 3 and out and put the D right back on the field.  Some how in your mind the O bares no responsibility? 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I just said the time of POS is not relevant. The Eagle made a long drive, we get the ball back and go 3 and out and put the D right back on the field.  Some how in your mind the O bares no responsibility? 

They touched the ball for one series and went 3-out.  Thats not good, but theyre not the first or the last team that will go 3 & out in a series.  That wasnt the problem the problem was it followed a long drive by the Eagles and then was followed by another long drive that ate up the whole quarter.  Thats not on the offense.

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Actually Moore had a defender to his inside and Zach threw it to the outside while Moore decided to turn in, towards the defender.  Id guess Moore read that wrong and should have turned out

The play I am referring to is at the 7 minute  mark of the video. Was the Eagle player Claude Raines because I don't  see anyone anywhere near Moore except the guy that was playing man on him. 

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I just said the time of POS is not relevant. The Eagle made a long drive, we get the ball back and go 3 and out and put the D right back on the field.  Some how in your mind the O bares no responsibility? 

It's brutal to put your D back out there after that long of a drive.  Brutal.  At that point, it was 13 unanswered points which turned into 16.

That said, the most egregious 3 and out happened in the 2 quarter.  The Eagles just scored a TD, looking like the D cant stop them at all and the offense goes 3 and out and punts the ball back to Eagles for a score before the half and they were receiving the 2nd half kick-off.

 

[More Cowbell]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

They touched the ball for one series and went 3-out.  Thats not good, but theyre not the first or the last team that will go 3 & out in a series.  That wasnt the problem the problem was it followed a long drive by the Eagles and then was followed by another long drive that ate up the whole quarter.  Thats not on the offense.

Yes, our D couldn't get off the field but it was compounded by the O doing absolutely  nothing when the ball was in their possession and putting them right back out there.  That is on the O. My point is, we got the ball back right after every Eagles possession  and did nothing for an entire half. It doesn't  matter how long the Eagles possess the ball. That doesn't  mean our O has to do nothing when we do get it.