All Zach Wilson throws vs Jax

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I’m mad we won a meaningless December game AND the QB is probably a bust. 

If Wilson had balled out in a statement win, or something close to it, I wouldn’t be upset right now.

Darnold being better than Wilson as a rookie with only 2 games left in the season should be concerning to everyone.  So forgive me if I’m not in a celebratory mood over one of the most empty wins the Jets have ever accomplished, other than perhaps the Texans’ win earlier in the season. 

Nope, unforgivable.

You are a bad, bad man. 

Also there’s no known downfall of entering the draft with this pick instead of whatever one we’d have had if we’d lost. (And had we lost, I’m sure you’d have said even more).

But I am very sleepy now, so that’ll have to be all for tonight. 

[slimjasi]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Jets just don’t seem capable of drafting a good QB.  In which case it’s time to take a breather from trying to find one in the draft.  Get a vet in here and let’s take a deep breath for a year or so.  Maybe hire a coaching staff we can trust if we don’t have it currently.  

I have no issue bringing in a vet to provide some legit competition -

but what you tell Wilson is that you expect him to win the Job. The goal is to develop Wilson and the fallback option is being watchable with Minshew. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

We won, yes,  but if the Jags were competent at all which they are not nor is Lawrence they should have easily won this game on that last drive. I remember when I used to say a guy like Mark Sanchez put us in a position to win and we would lose on the last drive and people would come back with "well he should have scored 2 TD's in the 4th rather than a TD and a FG" and blame the loss on him. Yet here it seems different . We ran for a 260 yards and could not get the ball in the endzone to put up 2 TD's in the 4th which would have sealed the victory. Bevel and Lawrence sh*t the bed big time on that last drive and we won because of it well we can blame shotty for ******* us out of a possible #1 overall pick

 

Sanchez was on a playoff team - if not a superbowl team - so f*** him. Plus wasn’t he stuffing some underage girl that year, too? F*** him. 

He cost the team a super bowl (or two). Wilson cost them finishing with maybe 7-8 wins (if that) instead of 4. Whoopie. The whole team sucks.

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

The off schedule TD pass and 52 yard TD on 3rd and 5 and 20 yard run on 4th and 2 are nice to have additions in a dink and dunk game.  
 

They will open it up more next season.  

Hey don't get me wrong I'm all for flashy plays when they happen, all I'm saying is its nothing to be relied upon when you've basically stunk for 80% of the year . What we need is consistency and then the plays like that will come naturally I mean crap like that happens a few games a season there are 15 other games to play.

[slimjasi]

 

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold being better than Wilson as a rookie with only 2 games left in the season should be concerning to everyone.  

the problem with this is that I am unaware of any evidence that a rookie season is a statistically significant predictor of future success or failure. 
 

the time to be concerned about how Wilson looks is at the end of next season. You have to see how he handles an NFL offseason and the chance to work on his game  

[Smashmouth]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Sanchez was on a playoff team - if not a superbowl team - so f*** him. Plus wasn’t he stuffing some underage girl that year, too? F*** him. 

He cost the team a super bowl (or two). Wilson cost them finishing with maybe 7-8 wins (if that) instead of 4. Whoopie. The whole team sucks.

Yep Sanchez was a rookie then a second year QB but you know **** Him  

FWIW he played will in both AFCCG not great but surely good enough to win . VS the Steelers our SB caliber defense got the ball run down their throat and could not make the big stop at the end like REAL SB caliber defense make in a half where we completely stole the momentum. 

Vs the Colts we were winning 17-6 then our defense folded and our coach got conservative after our rookie QB threw an 80 yard TD to Edwards and another 9 yard TD in the first half. 

Both games were there to win and our coaches sh*t the bed as did our defense

[Jetsfan80]

28 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

 

the problem with this is that I am unaware of any evidence that a rookie season is a statistically significant predictor of future success or failure. 
 

the time to be concerned about how Wilson looks is at the end of next season. You have to see how he handles an NFL offseason and the chance to work on his game  

All I know is @Lith’s rookie QB chart thru X number of games was not a promising list for Wilson to be associated with.  

And we are long beyond the point where we can call a QBs entire rookie year a wash.  You know what you have after about 20-25 starts and often earlier.  Zach is about halfway to that point, and needs to be stellar for the 2nd half to have a shot in this league.

[Butterfield]

6 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Never said that he wasn’t.  That being said, Zach Wilson isn’t causing Keelan Cole to drop balls, run the wrong routes, or fail to gain any bit of separation.  That’s a Keelan Cole issue.

Finally, for what it’s worth, Cole’s best game was the Tennessee game, a game that Zach started.  What do you think is more likely:  Cole is an inconsistent, but still decent decent 4th receiver, who can do some stuff when he’s not the main target and all eyes aren’t on him, or that he’s a potential stud being held back by the QB?  I know my answer, and it’s the same answer every single time this question is posed about a WR.  There are plenty of Keelan Cole’s in this league.  None of them should be starters.  Marvin Jones and Keelan Cole are worlds apart.

More than one player on a team can play bad.  It doesn’t have to be a one or the other proposition.  

[Augustiniak]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

All I know is @Lith’s rookie QB chart thru X number of games was not a promising list for Wilson to be associated with.  

And we are long beyond the point where we can call a QBs entire rookie year a wash.  You know what you have after about 20-25 starts and often earlier.  Zach is about halfway to that point, and needs to be stellar for the 2nd half to have a shot in this league.

Well, one thing about wilson is that he’s really cut down on turnovers.  He seems to have figured something out when he was injured for a month.  He has all of 1 interception in December, after 7 in September. Many here have compared wilson to darnold in that there’s enough of a sample size to project what he will become. I think wilson is evolving into a better qb this season even as the wrs disappear.  Darnold is in year 4 and is still among the league leaders in interceptions.  Wilson has 3 tds and 1 pick in December, as well as 3 rushing tds.  If we’re all going to be critical of his overall performance, it’s also reasonable to assess significant trends.  Wilson is definitely trending in the right direction.

 The most glaring thing he was doing wrong early in the season was forcing passes when he shouldn’t.  He seems to have drastically reduced those.  Instead, he’s throwing the ball away and scrambling and we saw yesterday how he can clearly use his legs as a weapon.  The next thing he needs to fix are those easy short throws, but i think that will resolve itself.  I don’t think we’ll see those bounce passes much going forward.  

As for throwing for only 100 yards yesterday, the simple truth is that the jets interim coach wanted to win.  The offensive game plan was quite good and the OL even missing starters was able to dominate a really bad Jax team.  Not many coaches will start throwing when you’re running through a team easily. The game was much closer than it had to be b/c the HC was overly aggressive and the defense can’t stop a nosebleed.  

 From a fan perspective, we all want to see wilson throw more, but really, do we really want to see more dropped passes by cole, smith and whatever scrubs they trot out there?  The jets lead the league in dropped passes.  A few weeks ago they didn’t have a rb who could catch a screen pass, yet many here were blaming wilson for not making perfect throws to ty johnson.  You know what, you watch the good teams, their guys make plays.  Not every pass is going to be great.  The wrs/tes/rbs get paid to make their qb look good.  Douglas would be wise to get the jets another moore in the first round.  Whatever Wilson’s ceiling is, he’s never going to reach it playing with guys like ty johnson, Keelan cole, Jeff smith and these scrub TEs.  For all the fans here who love Mike White and think he’s better than Wilson - White has 5 tds and 8 picks and -1 yard rushing.  And although many here believe this win was meaningless, it was Wilson’s athleticism that won the game.  And yes, he looks considerably better than Trevor.  Trevor had all day to throw, I was counting to 7 Mississippi each pass play and then his overly long release to get the ball to a wide open wr.  I also think Wilson may be a better scrambler too.

 

 

[The Crusher]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

All I know is @Lith’s rookie QB chart thru X number of games was not a promising list for Wilson to be associated with.  

And we are long beyond the point where we can call a QBs entire rookie year a wash.  You know what you have after about 20-25 starts and often earlier.  Zach is about halfway to that point, and needs to be stellar for the 2nd half to have a shot in this league.

Not sure what anyone else saw. I only watched the game in between doing  other things. Zach looked really good for his first pre-season game. 

[maury77]

9 hours ago, undertow said:

Our king Zach? Yikes I think that pretty much says it all. lol

Seriously. Even I gave Wilson credit for this game, but some of you belong in Jonestown. 

[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, GreenFish said:

He had a solid game. I counted one bad decision (second pass that was nearly intercepted) and 1 inaccurate pass (missed receiver in the flat - he should have lobbed it over the defender).

The passing numbers weren’t there but this is close to the blueprint we need to have success until Zach is ready to carry the team. Focus on having a strong running game, have Zach make easy throws and allow him to use his legs. I don't think he’ll be ready to carry a team next year. 

This is a very fair assessment.

I don't think even the biggest Zach supporters are saying he's ready to carry the team.  He has a long way to go, but he is, without question, getting better. 

The short game accuracy we saw yesterday is vital for him and this type of offense to succeed.  That was a complete game, he played well, if not explosive, for all 4 quarters.

I tend to agree that I don't think he'll be ready to consistently carry the team next year as well.  But we should expect to see considerable progress with a few games where he will be the reason they win.

Just a few questions:

Step 1:  Can he he do what he did yesterday consistently - meaning being accurate and composed.  

Step 2: Can he push the ball downfield, make big plays when they're there (we saw some of this pre-injury) without the INT's (although we should expect some - comes with the risk)

Step 3: Can he combine an accurate short game - while also hitting on shots downfield - and running when it's there. 

Step 4: Can he do it when it counts - when the games on the line, when the game matters, on Thursday night football, on the road - etc.

When he can do that - that's when he'll be ready - I just think putting all of those together is still a bit away.  Steady growth is what we need.

 

[maury77]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

Conversations tend to run smoother when you can pre-select the audience with whom you’re conversing and unfollow the ones you disagree with. 

To be fair, I already do that here, lol

[Alentador31]

11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So we drafted a game manager at # 2 overall?  I seem to remember the Zachapostles noting how much more talented Wilson is than the game manager Mike White.  I’d like to see that talent on display at some point.

He has to learn how to run an offense, go through progressions, etc. All the "boring" stuff first. There's a reason why you see some  rookies fizzle out after their first year....they don't learn how to do the "boring" stuff and the league catches up with them. I like how they are slowly bringing him along. It's a slow process but once he gets it (and it looks like he's getting there) he's gonna explode. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I think if Moore's back you'll see more of it.  There's just no one that can beat anyone...These guys have to be schemed open.  Tough to push the ball down the field.

It'll come.

Can you imagine if we had a #1 WR along with Moore and a decent TE who actually had to be taken seriously? 

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Can you imagine if we had a #1 WR along with Moore and a decent TE who actually had to be taken seriously? 

Both of which should be attainable this off-season.

Davis as a 4th option would make for a solid group of WR's...

[The Crusher]

12 hours ago, doitny said:

i see alot of complaining but Zach had a nice game. no he didnt throw for 300 yds but he didnt need to. 

we had an icredible day running the ball. and Zach contributed to that. again this is something we didnt see before from him. thats called inprovement.

and for the 2nd week in a row there were no bouncing balls, no throws behind people. 

the kid is moving in the right direction. 

Edit: forgot his career high 63% completion %

Good

1-used his legs

2-nice escapes 

3-fewer shitty short throws 

4-close, but no pics 

5- win one for the few dedicated that showed up

bad

1-still runs backwards in pocket 

2-plays shorter than he is, too many tipped  bounce up in the air balls 

3-faced a pre-season team with a pre-season team, looked like it was pre-season  

[Barry McCockinner]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

All I know is @Lith’s rookie QB chart thru X number of games was not a promising list for Wilson to be associated with.  

And we are long beyond the point where we can call a QBs entire rookie year a wash.  You know what you have after about 20-25 starts and often earlier.  Zach is about halfway to that point, and needs to be stellar for the 2nd half to have a shot in this league.

There's no magic formula to determine if a QB is going to be good. You are acting like he must be at some level within 20-25 games or he turns into a pumpkin. 

We need him to be better, no doubt. Fitting into some arbitrary stat line within 20-25 games doesn't mean anything. You are also really latching onto that whole first 9 games analysis as if it's the holy grail, which is just plain weird - dude.

Every QB is different and progresses differently. The progression is usually slower for QB's who end up on bad teams. Obviously there's a time table where you need to evaluate with the rookie cap deal so it's not like we have forever here but your rush to cut bait and declare him the worst QB evah seems premature when the guy is showing clear signs of progression on a pretty bad team with a crapload of injuries.

I don't think anyone is claiming he had a great game. It's OK to just see some progress.

[Mogglez]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure you want to bring up the passing game stats of the games Zach Wilson didn’t start because that’s never going to be favorable to Zach Wilson. 

If you want to continue moving the goalposts to protect the honor of Keelan Cole, be my guest.  It’s not going to change the facts regarding him.

[BallinPB]

Yesterday was Zach Wilson's best game as a pro.  Hopefully he can finish the season strong.  He needs to show more passing the ball.  

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, Butterfield said:

More than one player on a team can play bad.  It doesn’t have to be a one or the other proposition.  

I’d love to know where I said that they couldn’t.

[tfine]

If Wilson does something good in the next 2 games I'll be shocked.
Zach is not here to be Lamar Jackson. I'm not good with him throwing for 100 yards when Jax had their hands full with our running game and the threat of the run by Wilson that was established early. 
I would have been more excited if Zach threw for 260 and a couple TD's rather than him running for 89 because he's not here to run the football he's here to prove that insane arm talent and escapability translates to the NFL . By now he should have settled down and we will see if he actually has vs Buffalo and the Buccs . Everyone on this freakin forum was all over Mike White vs the Bills because he threw 3 Ints in the second half trying to make something happen but he did throw for 252  lets see how Zach handles that same team and if he gets hammered all the excuses that will follow and FWIW Wilson has about 6 more NFL starts than MW.

LOL. So Jax couldn’t stop the run but we need to get away from the run because Zach needs to post some crazy stat line to prove to the naysayers on a Jets message board wrong. You can’t make this stuff up.





Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[T0mShane]

29 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If you want to continue moving the goalposts to protect the honor of Keelan Cole, be my guest.  It’s not going to change the facts regarding him.

This week it’s Keelan Cole. Last week it was Connor McDermott. The week before it was Denzel Mims. But do tell me more about moving goalposts.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I’m mad we won a meaningless December game AND the QB is probably a bust. 

If Wilson had balled out in a statement win, or something close to it, I wouldn’t be upset right now.

Darnold being better than Wilson as a rookie with only 2 games left in the season should be concerning to everyone.  So forgive me if I’m not in a celebratory mood over one of the most empty wins the Jets have ever accomplished, other than perhaps the Texans’ win earlier in the season. 

You can’t say probably a bust. I think it’s pretty unknown and not obvious at this point. It could go either way next year. Rookie season is all about reps and experience. Some jump out right from the start, some don’t. 

Darnold having a nice little rookie season did what for him? Nothing, he sucks balls. 

As long as they keep building around him, another WR, TE and such…we can be in good shape. 
 

[chirorob]

13 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Kid won a game with his top 3 wrs out


Thats basically....incredible.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

And top 2 offensive tackles, and a guard, and do they even really have a tight end?

[Grandy]

Wilson had the highest PFF grade on Offense. 

[tfine]

I’m mad we won a meaningless December game AND the QB is probably a bust. 
If Wilson had balled out in a statement win, or something close to it, I wouldn’t be upset right now.
Darnold being better than Wilson as a rookie with only 2 games left in the season should be concerning to everyone.  So forgive me if I’m not in a celebratory mood over one of the most empty wins the Jets have ever accomplished, other than perhaps the Texans’ win earlier in the season. 

And Darnold was better than Josh Allen with 2 games left his rookie year….we all know how that turned out. Seems to me you and other Zach naysayers on the board seem to be married to a blueprint on how rookie QBs are supposed to progress…..truth is every QB is different…you have the Justin Herbert’s who light the world on fire out of the gate..you have the Josh Allen’s that start off like crap and get better…at this point we don’t really know..



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JustInFudge]

Just watched the video, like usual, there was good and bad.  Before I share my thoughts, I will say, it's really strange what some of all you focus on, it's like nobody even tries to see the trees through the forest, you're staring at one tree and doing everything you can to hope it grows but not even taking into account what's going in the forest. 

The thing that stood out to me the most watching that "tape" is that the Jacksonville Jaguars are absolutely terrible.  Like, holy sh*t, terrible.  I would venture to say, Zach will never play a worse Football team for the rest of his career.  That game, by all measures, was considered a walk in the park for an NFL game and it's actually quite sad, this was an actual competitive Football game that came down to the last seconds to decide a winner. 

I know the Jets were short-handed but to have nearly 300 yards on the ground and score 2 TD's on offense, is pathetic.  Let's be honest with ourselves.  That was some of the worst redzone Football, I've ever seen out of our offense.  It took a gimmicky eligible Tackle on 4th down, to score the only RZ TD of the day.  They were 1 for 4 in the redzone and he was wide the **** open, and the ball came late, making an easy TD play become an 8 out of 10 on the difficulty factor.  The Jets offense was 4 of 12 on 3rd down.  4 of 12, vs. a bunch of street FA's, literally.  2 TD's on 9 drives.  On average, the Jags give up 250 yards passing per game at 7.6 ypc.  The Jets had 100 yards at 4.5  ypc.

So, that's like not very good.  However, clutch plays on 4th down, big 3rd down conversion late in the game, better touch and accuracy and more willing to run with the worst cast of characters he's had all year are definitely "positives" if you're looking for encouragement.  How much stock do you put into the performance of a QB giving you street level FA type of outing vs. the worst team in Football?  I'm not sure but it's good enough, IMO, to put this game down a positive for Zach but that's probably got more to do with how low the bar is for him, vs. how good he actually played.

[Peace Frog]

Early AZM narrative: “What’s with the hero ball, he needs to learn how to manage a game first! He sucks!! Trash!!!”

Zach manages game. 

Current AZM narrative: “We really spent the number 2 pick on a game manager?!? He sucks!! Trash!!!”

[GreenFish]

PFF Grade: 80.5

QBR: 92.4

Consistent with what we saw. It was his most efficient game as a pro.

[Peace Frog]

16 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Just watched the video, like usual, there was good and bad.  Before I share my thoughts, I will say, it's really strange what some of all you focus on, it's like nobody even tries to see the trees through the forest, you're staring at one tree and doing everything you can to hope it grows but not even taking into account what's going in the forest. 

The thing that stood out to me the most watching that "tape" is that the Jacksonville Jaguars are absolutely terrible.  Like, holy sh*t, terrible.  I would venture to say, Zach will never play a worse Football team for the rest of his career.  That game, by all measures, was considered a walk in the park for an NFL game and it's actually quite sad, this was an actual competitive Football game that came down to the last seconds to decide a winner. 

I know the Jets were short-handed but to have nearly 300 yards on the ground and score 2 TD's on offense, is pathetic.  Let's be honest with ourselves.  That was some of the worst redzone Football, I've ever seen out of our offense.  It took a gimmicky eligible Tackle on 4th down, to score the only RZ TD of the day.  They were 1 for 4 in the redzone and he was wide the **** open, and the ball came late, making an easy TD play become an 8 out of 10 on the difficulty factor.  The Jets offense was 4 of 12 on 3rd down.  4 of 12, vs. a bunch of street FA's, literally.  2 TD's on 9 drives.  On average, the Jags give up 250 yards passing per game at 7.6 ypc.  The Jets had 100 yards at 4.5  ypc.

So, that's like not very good.  However, clutch plays on 4th down, big 3rd down conversion late in the game, better touch and accuracy and more willing to run with the worst cast of characters he's had all year are definitely "positives" if you're looking for encouragement.  How much stock do you put into the performance of a QB giving you street level FA type of outing vs. the worst team in Football?  I'm not sure but it's good enough, IMO, to put this game down a positive for Zach but that's probably got more to do with how low the bar is for him, vs. how good he actually played.

To be fair, the Jags and Jets are pretty even in suckitude. If we’re going to criticize the effort against a crap team we must admit Zach is on an equally crap team. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, Peace Frog said:

To be fair, the Jags and Jets are pretty even in suckitude. If we’re going to criticize the effort against a crap team we must admit Zach is on an equally crap team. 

Also, the Jets were missing 20 guys. Wilson’s best WR yesterday was Berrios. 

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

PFF Grade: 80.5

QBR: 92.4

Consistent with what we saw. It was his most efficient game as a pro.

Strange for a historically bad, all-time QB bust to do this 12 games into his career 

[JustInFudge]

23 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

To be fair, the Jags and Jets are pretty even in suckitude. If we’re going to criticize the effort against a crap team we must admit Zach is on an equally crap team. 

To be fair, I didnt criticize his effort, I just pointed a few things out about the level of his competition.  In fact, I said he played well enough to call this game a positive and I mentioned the fact that he had this positive game with his worst cast of characters to date.

  

 

[Barry McCockinner]

27 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Strange for a historically bad, all-time QB bust to do this 12 games into his career 

If you don't reach a certain level in the first 9 games, any progress thereafter is meaningless. The guy is toast.