Zach Wilson PFFs 7th ranked QB for week 17

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Incorrect according to Pro Football Reference: 

He has 4 fumbles this season, and 1 lost.

2021 Games 

 

							Passing											Rushing				Scoring		Fumbles						Off. Snaps		Def. Snaps		ST Snaps
Date	Week	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Rush	Yds	Y/A	TD	2PM	TD	Fmb	FL	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Num	Pct	Num	Pct	Num	Pct	Status
2021-09-12	1	NYJ	@	CAR	L 14-19	*	20	37	54.05	258	2	1	82.9	6	51	6.97	6.84	0	0		0	1	0	1	0	0	1	0	0	65	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-09-19	2	NYJ		NWE	L 6-25	*	19	33	57.58	210	0	4	37.0	4	26	6.36	0.91	3	19	6.33	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	73	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-09-26	3	NYJ	@	DEN	L 0-26	*	19	35	54.29	160	0	2	42.6	5	41	4.57	2.00	1	2	2.00	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	54	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-10-03	4	NYJ		TEN	W 27-24	*	21	34	61.76	297	2	1	97.3	1	8	8.74	8.59	3	-2	-0.67	0		0	1	0	0	1	0	0	61	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-10-10	5	NYJ	@	ATL	L 20-27	*	19	32	59.38	192	0	1	63.5	2	26	6.00	4.59	1	3	3.00	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	56	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-10-24	7	NYJ	@	NWE	L 13-54	*	6	10	60.00	51	0	0	73.3	1	8	5.10	5.10	0	0		0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	18	28%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-11-28	12	NYJ	@	HOU	W 21-14	*	14	24	58.33	145	0	1	58.5	4	36	6.04	4.17	2	3	1.50	1		1	1	0	0	0	0	0	67	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-12-05	13	NYJ		PHI	L 18-33	*	23	38	60.53	226	2	1	83.9	2	15	5.95	5.82	3	0	0.00	1		1	0	0	0	0	0	0	59	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-12-12	14	NYJ		NOR	L 9-30	*	19	42	45.24	202	0	0	59.8	3	24	4.81	4.81	4	33	8.25	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	66	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-12-19	15	NYJ	@	MIA	L 24-31	*	13	23	56.52	170	0	0	80.0	6	44	7.39	7.39	4	12	3.00	1		1	1	1	0	0	0	0	57	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2021-12-26	16	NYJ		JAX	W 26-21	*	14	22	63.64	102	1	0	89.6	1	2	4.64	5.55	4	91	22.75	1		1	0	0	0	0	0	0	58	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2022-01-02	17	NYJ		TAM	L 24-28	*	19	33	57.58	234	1	0	89.7	1	10	7.09	7.70	2	0	0.00	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	61	100%	0	0%	0	0%

That is pretty darn good.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

That is pretty darn good.

It is, although he did miss 4 games. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Ahhh ok, I see what is happening. ESPN is separating “passing” fumbles from rushing fumbles. 

 

so yes, he has 4 fumbles in total. 

Confirmed, ESPN just doesn't list "lost fumbles" under player stats if the fumble was judged Passing-related.

Checked the actual gamecast on ESPN play by play, and it shows:

Quote

1st & 10 at MIA 31
(13:05 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson sacked at MIA 38 for -7 yards (Z.Sieler). FUMBLES (Z.Sieler) [Z.Sieler], touched at MIA 38, RECOVERED by MIA-E.Ogbah at MIA 39.

Link:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401326541

So that's it, ESPN is (IMO) Not a good stat site actually.  Pro Football Reference is excellent and very detailed, which is why I generally use them exclusively for stat checks.

[slimjasi]

Just now, Warfish said:

Confirmed, ESPN just doesn't list "lost fumbles" under player stats if the fumble was judged Passing-related.

Checked the actual gamecast on ESPN play by play, and it shows:

Link:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401326541

So that's it, ESPN is (IMO) Not a good stat site actually.  Pro Football Reference is excellent and very detailed, which is why I generally use them exclusively for stat checks.

Ahhh, I remember the play now. It was weird - I couldn’t remember the lost fumble 

[FidelioJet]

14 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

May have ???? Berrios is the no3

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

Berrios will make for a great gadget kinda guy.  Have him all over the field - backfield, slot, wide etc...Just make other teams always have to be aware of where he is...

1st round WR #1, Moore in the slot #2, Davis #3...Berrios anywhere - just being a pain in the ass to the defense...

[docdhc]

43 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

I saw someone on twitter calling yesterday one of the worst regular season losses in Jets history.  I was about to reply, but figured it's just not worth it on twitter.

Even the worst part of the game yesterday provided valuable valuable lessons for our rookie QB and coaching staff.

Despite the outcome and manner in which we lost, there were tons of positives.

It might be the best result even though it hurt yesterday.  We get better draft position and a teaching moment for whole staff.  Victory might not have been as beneficial.  

[Warfish]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Ahhh, I remember the play now. It was weird - I couldn’t remember the lost fumble 

I certainly didn't remember it myself, so no harm there, lol.

[JoJoTownsell1]

27 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

Kid is making great progress. I think his passing TDs would be much higher if Moore/Davis were still playing. I give Lafleur a TON of credit for creating scoring plays in this environment. 

Many here wanted Lafleur gone. I got a bad feeling they may get their wish in a couple of years when a team poaches him to be a HC like his brother. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, Warfish said:

I certainly didn't remember it myself, so no harm there, lol.

I usually remember all of the TDs and turnovers. 
 

the best thing Wilson has done recently is cut down the turnovers/turnover worthy plays 

[Patriot Killa]

Bad quality but look how in sync his eye to body mechanics are as he’s going thru his progressions, chopping his feet in the direction he is eying so he can set and throw with no delay or awkward motion in his pass. He moves from the left to the right quickly and sprays.

[FidelioJet]

Jets need to pony up to make sure John Beck stays with the team.

I don't think it's a coincidence since he's been here is when we really started to see ZW grow...

Whatever he needs to be paid - pay him.

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

If you watch the games ... the most exciting thing is not necessarily the improvement .. yes that is the most important thing ... but the most exciting thing to me is the undeniable arm talent on display. It seperates him from the mass of nfl average QBs.

Keep raising that bar ... be patient ... it will lead to domination.

The possibility IS there.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk








 

His escapability is also incredible. Not sure there are too many that can escape pressure like he can.

[Rhg1084]

33 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Bad quality but look how in sync his eye to body mechanics are as he’s going thru his progressions, chopping his feet in the direction he is eying so he can set and throw with no delay or awkward motion in his pass. He moves from the left to the right quickly and sprays.

 

Definitely a smooth fluid thrower. Future is very bright 

[docdhc]

53 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Jets need to pony up to make sure John Beck stays with the team.

I don't think it's a coincidence since he's been here is when we really started to see ZW grow...

Whatever he needs to be paid - pay him.

Saleh has implied that Beck wants to continue his private QB tutoring business and may not want to be a full time NFL coach. 

[Hex]

Luckily the forum isn't controlling what's happening in the franchise. If it was things would certainly look different.

[Butterfield]

I must say that he looked a lot better this last game.  It was definitely encouraging.  

[FidelioJet]

15 minutes ago, docdhc said:

Saleh has implied that Beck wants to continue his private QB tutoring business and may not want to be a full time NFL coach. 

Yeah, I figured as much - which is why the Jets need to pony up and make him an offer he can't refuse.  

With that said - if he's under the Jets employ I don't think he can work with Zach in the off-season.

 

[varjet]

24 minutes ago, docdhc said:

Saleh has implied that Beck wants to continue his private QB tutoring business and may not want to be a full time NFL coach. 

My guess is that Beck made more money working full time in NJ helping Wilson and the Jets out than he would have in California.   His QB clients now are all on college and pro teams.  The college clients are freeing up now and will need help for the draft.  I would say that in exactly a week from now Beck will be flying to Orange County to start getting the college QBs ready.  

If the Jets want to hire Beck to be an in-season tutor for Zach again in September 2022 my guess is that Beck would consider that.   But he is not going to give up his January-August in Southern California and all of his other clients.  I would not either.  If the Jets can get Zach enough training camp support this could work.  I presume Zach will be working with Beck soon enough.  Zach needs to bug out of NJ soon to avoid paying taxes there. 

[David Harris]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

The "Total TD" threw me off, because Zach doesn't have 12 passing TD's.  Realized they're counting his rushing TD's too.  Odd way to do it, as they're NOT including his rushing turnovers (fumbles), so it's not apples to apples.  

His Passing TD:INT sits at 8:11 after Tampa.

Passing, he was 4:9 in his first six games.

And now was 4:2 in his second six games.

Same TD's, but much reduced INT's.

True but he's also had several should have been passing TD's - a couple endzone drops and guys getting tackled on the 1 yard line like Cole yesterday.   Happens to everyone but seems like ZW has had a few more than average but really no big deal - we see the progress and it's real. 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

How do you throw 3 picks and get graded higher?  

Not only that his other stats stunk 11-26 120 yards and 3 picks.

Do they give lots of awesome points for rushing tds and yards?

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, David Harris said:

True but he's also had several should have been passing TD's - a couple endzone drops and guys getting tackled on the 1 yard line like Cole yesterday.   Happens to everyone but seems like ZW has had a few more than average but really no big deal - we see the progress and it's real. 

I dislike this kind of woulda, coulda, shoulda argument.  He's had plenty of "shoulda-been" INT's too.

The second you start talking "woulda, coulda" you're not in facts, you're in projection.

I prefer to stick to hard facts.  What actually happened.  Not what I think coulda happened (on one side) and ignore what coulda happened (on the bad side).

JMO.

I think I've been clear that yesterday was a sign of progress/improvement for Zach, so I am not arguing against that idea.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

The "Total TD" threw me off, because Zach doesn't have 12 passing TD's.  Realized they're counting his rushing TD's too.  Odd way to do it, as they're NOT including his rushing turnovers (fumbles), so it's not apples to apples.  

His Passing TD:INT sits at 8:11 after Tampa.

Passing, he was 4:9 in his first six games.

And now was 4:2 in his second six games.

Same TD's, but much reduced INT's.

A TD is a TD; a player can't throw for a TD on the same drive he's run it in. 

• First 6 games = 4 TDs, 9 turnovers
• Second 6 games = 8 TDs, 3 turnovers

Not that I at all have the numbers handy, but I do think it's fair to count would-be interceptions (if one is also going to count would-be receptions). I think this is what pff seeks to even out: whether a pass or a pick is dropped isn't because the pass was any better or worse. But you'd have to count them all, and unless a dropped completion occurred in the EZ it's hard to fully credit any would-be YAC yards or TDs. Ditto if a pass was tipped up into the air off his receiver's hands and was picked off that way; not the QB's fault the same as throwing into triple coverage against better judgment. 

Over a large amount of data it probably evens out enough, but just looking at basically 1/3 of a season it could really change how things look. The goal is to see how well he played not how things ended up even when it wasn't because of him. He threw what he threw; that others dropped it (to his benefit or otherwise) really has nothing to do with the quality of the pass itself. 

Regardless, he looks far better of late than he did early on. I'd still like to see them bring in a more credible veteran QB, but am less concerned about that than I was a few weeks ago. 

[Fantasy Island]

2 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

I saw someone on twitter calling yesterday one of the worst regular season losses in Jets history.  I was about to reply, but figured it's just not worth it on twitter.

Even the worst part of the game yesterday provided valuable valuable lessons for our rookie QB and coaching staff.

Despite the outcome and manner in which we lost, there were tons of positives.

That loss was on Teflon Bobby

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A TD is a TD

No disagreement, but likewise a turnover is a turnover. 

If reporting all TD's (rush and pass), you should equally report all turnovers.  That's all.

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Regardless, he looks far better of late than he did early on.

This week, absolutely.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No disagreement, but likewise a turnover is a turnover. 

If reporting all TD's (rush and pass), you should equally report all turnovers.  That's all.

This week, absolutely.

 

I did lay out all the TDs and turnovers.

• First 6 games = 4 TDs, 9 turnovers
• Second 6 games = 8 TDs, 3 turnovers

Just as nice to see are him not throwing screens to no one, as though the turf was his intended target. He may have thrown one yesterday but it's hard to say it wasn't intentional. For too many weeks we couldn't say that; he clearly had the yips.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I did lay out all the TDs and turnovers.

The full stats were referenced (with link to the source site) already.  

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Just as nice to see are him not throwing screens to no one, as though the turf was his intended target. He may have thrown one yesterday but it's hard to say it wasn't intentional. For too many weeks we couldn't say that; he clearly had the yips.

He had a good, if uneven at times, game.  Improvement and progress.

I'll be interested how he plays against a Buffalo team with something on the line this week.

If he can put up at least a similar performance, that would be great.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Confirmed, ESPN just doesn't list "lost fumbles" under player stats if the fumble was judged Passing-related.

Checked the actual gamecast on ESPN play by play, and it shows:

Link:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401326541

So that's it, ESPN is (IMO) Not a good stat site actually.  Pro Football Reference is excellent and very detailed, which is why I generally use them exclusively for stat checks.

You mean the same site that created that useless QBR metric isn’t a good resource for stats?  Get out of town!

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, docdhc said:

Saleh has implied that Beck wants to continue his private QB tutoring business and may not want to be a full time NFL coach. 

He can do both just fire him in January hire him back in October.

[JohnnyLV]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You mean the same site that created that useless QBR metric isn’t a good resource for stats?  Get out of town!

I know that Total QBR overvalues running but the last two Wilson games in terms of Total QBR make no sense. Last week Over 90, this week (which to my eyes was a vastly better week) below 40 which means Total QBR thought it was a "bad" game and below the expected contribution from an average QB.

[jetstream23]

Just saw this angle of the pass to Cole below. Didn’t realize how much of an absolute laser it was. This is elite level sh*t.

I’m not sure the thing dropped more than 2 feet as it went 30 air yards on a wire.

 

[Barkus]

20 hours ago, Lith said:

More from PFF

 

 

Props to feeney, he held up ok as backup center. Maybe bring him back?? Shout out to yeboah, he made two  very tough catches. No way our other TE can make those catches. Could be a useful piece.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Barkus