Mini Camp Updates

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Sounds like a lot of positives in the reports today.

I wish I could feel excited about this, but the other day I said I was "concerned" about some things I was reading, and now the shame is just too much to take.  I will continue to root against Zach in the hopes that I can be right in front of you guys, as that's really what keeps me going in this life.

I like your chances. Personally I’m thrilled he can play catch again! 

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

OMG fire up the "Zach can't handle the red zone" thread.

[nycdan]

38 minutes ago, nycdan said:

At this point, I don't care if Zach humiliates the defense, as long as he is making smart plays and showing his talent.  Defense will have to channel that anger against other teams later on.  

Now that I said that, Pick-6 incoming...

 

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

Well god-damnit!

[Lith]

 

[FidelioJet]

51 minutes ago, Drums said:

If they neuter him I'd be pretty upset. Just start Mike White if that's the case. QB needs to be aggressive to win in this league, not pack it in when the going gets tough. 

I think it's a learning curve.  The more the offense becomes natural to him the more they'll loosed up the leash.  I do think this is their plan.  This allows him to learn while also being productive.  The talent around him right now should be good enough to keep the Jets competitive while allowing him to develop into the top 5 QB we all hope he can become.

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

 

Well god-damnit!

Lol, ahhhh a fellow jinx!  In all seriousness it sounds like a repeat of yesterday.  Offense lit up the defense in 11 on 11 and 7 on 7 full team drills, and now the defense is biting back in the Red Zone period.

This is what I want to see.  Iron sharpens iron.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

6 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

 

Come on man!

You can't throw it at Sauce in the red zone. 

No touchdown streak is alive and well... 

[Lith]

 

[Flightattendant]

Just now, Mogglez said:

Lol, ahhhh a fellow jinx!  In all seriousness it sounds like a repeat of yesterday.  Offense lit up the defense in 11 on 11 and 7 on 7 full team drills, and now the defense is biting back in the Red Zone period.

This is what I want to see.  Iron sharpens iron.

Yeah I don't know how someone couldn't be happy about this.

[Lith]

Looks like that will have to hold us until the end of July. 

 

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

That is patently false. NE built an offense that was dumbed down to an extensive degree. Zach was given the entire playbook. You can argue which approach is better but Mac Jones is not smarter than Zach. Look up some of the BYU interviews and hear him talk about offense 

Mac Jones has a Masters degree and graduated with a 4.0 GPA.

Quote

 

Academic Honors

President’s List, 2017-2019

Dean’s List, 2017-2019

Lambda Pi Eta Honor Society Top Paper Award, 2019

Student-Athlete of the Week, 2018-2019

SEC First Year Academic Honor Roll

Omicron Delta Kappa Honor Society

The Anderson Society

Phi Eta Sigma National Honor Society

The National Society of Collegiate Scholars

Golden Key International Honor Society

 

You failed to mention Zach couldn't impliment the entire playbook in real time.   Mac Jones actually won the Job in NE.  

[Lith]

Sounds like the offense has some work to do in two minutes.  Second straight day lighting it up all practice until two minute drills.

 

[GreenFish]

5 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

Look at Becton next to Nate Herbig who is 6’4” 335lbs.

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, Flightattendant said:

Yeah I don't know how someone couldn't be happy about this.

We should (but won’t) also try and remember that in practice there should never be “throw aways”, especially early on like right now when there is no running of the football.  A throw away is a wasted practice rep for the offense AND the defense.

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

• Rodgers didn't play his first 3 years.
• Favre didn't play his first season and was mediocre the next two.
• Drew Brees didn't play is first season and was below mediocre in years 2 and 3.
• Ben was a weird one.  Won ORoy his rookie year with good but not great stats but an awesome team around him.  Basically awful in years 2 and 3.  

It's the "Well, Peyton Manning sucked as a rookie, so...." argument.

It's not really much of an argument, Zach isn't Peyton.  They don't have the same physical skills or brains.  Or the same teams.  Or same teammates.  Or same opposition.  Or even the same Era.  There isn't a single variable the same, apart from "play QB".

I don't think anyone would argue against the "anything is possible" viewpoint.

The real question is, are these guys you list the norm, or the exception?

Put differently, select 30 random 1st round draft pick QB's in this current Era.  No cherry picking.

What is the norm for them, in year 1 and then year 2?  Do most drafted QB's suck in year 1, then rock in year 2?  Or do most QB's who suck year 1 also suck in year 2?  Or something in-between.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, nycdan said:

• Rodgers didn't play his first 3 years.
• Favre didn't play his first season and was mediocre the next two.
• Drew Brees didn't play is first season and was below mediocre in years 2 and 3.
• Ben was a weird one.  Won ORoy his rookie year with good but not great stats but an awesome team around him.  Basically awful in years 2 and 3.  

But sure.  Go with your 90% and 100% stats.  

I am coming to this kind of late, but..

• 2005
• 1991
• 2001
• 2004

Am I doing it wrong? 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Lol, ahhhh a fellow jinx!  In all seriousness it sounds like a repeat of yesterday.  Offense lit up the defense in 11 on 11 and 7 on 7 full team drills, and now the defense is biting back in the Red Zone period.

This is what I want to see.  Iron sharpens iron.

Let's also understand - particularly in the redzone..

In these drills - running the ball is pretty much off the table.  

That's a huge advantage to the defense.  More so than standard O v. D

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Mac Jones has a Masters degree and graduated with a 4.0 GPA.

You failed to mention Zach couldn't impliment the entire playbook in real time.   Mac Jones actually won the Job in NE.  

Most NFL ready QB I've seen in a long time. Dude showed up ready to go. 

[GreenFish]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Mac Jones has a Masters degree and graduated with a 4.0 GPA.

You failed to mention Zach couldn't impliment the entire playbook in real time.   Mac Jones actually won the Job in NE.  

Show me the preseason stats that proves Zach didnt win the Jets starting job? 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

We should (but won’t) also have to remember that in practice there should never be “throw aways” l, especially early on like right now when there is no running of the football.  A throw away is a wasted practice rep for the offense AND the defense.

Unless the focus of the practice is "QB Decision making".

You play like you practice.  I'm 100% fine with throw-aways if it's the best call, in practice, or in games.  They'll be plenty of other reps to be had.

[Mogglez]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Let's also understand - particularly in the redzone..

In these drills - running the ball is pretty much off the table.  

That's a huge advantage to the defense.  More so than standard O v. D

Absolutely!  My follow up post was more of an elaboration on this!

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

We should (but won’t) also try and remember that in practice there should never be “throw aways”, especially early on like right now when there is no running of the football.  A throw away is a wasted practice rep for the offense AND the defense.

[Warfish]

Just now, GreenFish said:

Show me the preseason stats that proves Zach didnt win the Jets starting job? 

No one can provide this.

Remind me, who was he competing against?

[Dinamite]

5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Lol, ahhhh a fellow jinx!  In all seriousness it sounds like a repeat of yesterday.  Offense lit up the defense in 11 on 11 and 7 on 7 full team drills, and now the defense is biting back in the Red Zone period.

This is what I want to see.  Iron sharpens iron.

It seems that Zach does pretty well against zone type of coverages (what they run in the 11 on 11, BUCS game), but maybe struggles a little more with pure man coverage that happens in the end zone.

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I agree with this.  Jones was put into a situation to succeed by a very good coaching staff.  In his defense, he didn't really have much more talent around him than Zach did.  I wouldn't swap them right now and it's not even remotely tempting.  However, I have no idea how things will look by the middle of this season.

Mac Jones was miles ahead of Zach from day 1.  He played great in a big time program.  He wasn't handed the starting job in NE he won the job outright based on hiis grasp of the O.  With much less talent than Zach he was able to read and react and be a much better QB.   That's because he's smarter than Zach, faster comprehension and turned it into results on the field.  He also had limited offensive talent around him.

If Zach reaches he's potential he will be a better QB than Jones.  He will never be as smart or as good of a game manager as Jones.  Jones simply has a much higher football IQ.  It's not remotely close.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Sauce sounds like a stud. So pumped about that pick. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

5 minutes ago, Lith said:

Looks like that will have to hold us until the end of July. 

 

This was Mike LaFleur giving JN content. 

Nothing more. 

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Unless the focus of the practice is "QB Decision making".

You play like you practice.  I'm 100% fine with throw-aways if it's the best call, in practice, or in games.  They'll be plenty of other reps to be had.

That’s a fair point.  I’d just like to add that this step doesn’t usually come until the phase of TC when there is the smallest bit of game-planning (the tune-up pre-season game) involved.  At least that’s how it was when I played ball.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

We should (but won’t) also try and remember that in practice there should never be “throw aways”, especially early on like right now when there is no running of the football.  A throw away is a wasted practice rep for the offense AND the defense.

No, I think you want to train the QB to make the right choices, no?

I could be wrong with that though.

[Mogglez]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No, I think you want to train the QB to make the right choices, no?

I could be wrong with that though.

The QB knows that from film study.  When you start reaching higher levels, it is not uncommon at all to have your coaches tell you that a throw away is a wasted rep.  That’s how I was coached at least, and that was in high school.

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's the "Well, Peyton Manning sucked as a rookie, so...." argument.

It's not really much of an argument, Zach isn't Peyton.  They don't have the same physical skills or brains.  Or the same teams.  Or same teammates.  Or same opposition.  Or even the same Era.  There isn't a single variable the same, apart from "play QB".

I don't think anyone would argue against the "anything is possible" viewpoint.

The real question is, are these guys you list the norm, or the exception?

Put differently, select 30 random 1st round draft pick QB's in this current Era.  No cherry picking.

What is the norm for them, in year 1 and then year 2?  Do most drafted QB's suck in year 1, then rock in year 2?  Or do most QB's who suck year 1 also suck in year 2?  Or something in-between.

Peyton Manning didn't suck as a rookie.  Zach, Fields and Lawrence sucked as rookies.  Peyton wasn't real good his rookie year but compared to those 3 he was incredible.  

[Biggs]

7 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Show me the preseason stats that proves Zach didnt win the Jets starting job? 

Bite me.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Peyton Manning didn't suck as a rookie.  Zach, Fields and Lawrence sucked as rookies.  Peyton wasn't real good his rookie year but compared to those 3 he was incredible.  

Peyton Manning had a great rookie year.  

He just threw a lot of interceptions. 

[GreenFish]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No one can provide this.

Remind me, who was he competing against?

You can only compete against those on the roster.

Zach Wilson beat out Mike White and Josh Johnson

Mac Jones beat out Brian Hoyer

Hoyer and Johnson are about equal.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Peyton Manning didn't suck as a rookie.  

I'm pretty sure he did.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

30 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I agree with this.  Jones was put into a situation to succeed by a very good coaching staff.  In his defense, he didn't really have much more talent around him than Zach did.  I wouldn't swap them right now and it's not even remotely tempting.  However, I have no idea how things will look by the middle of this season.

Agree with your overarching sentiment but didn't Jones have a big advantage in talent, at least from the perspective of having a much healthier offensive cast?  Elijah Moore missed 6 games, Corey Davis 8 games, Tyler Kroft 8-9 games, Becton 16 games, Michael Carter 3+ games, George Fant 2 games, Connor McGovern 2 games.  At 1 point, his top 3 TEs were out.  Heck, Zach Wilson himself had to battle back from injury.

Back to the TEs, I think JD failed to get Wilson legitimate NFL talent last year, which likely would have been a big help.