We just need Zach to be average..

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Nick Foles is a damn good QB and the reason he's damn good is because he's money in the clutch . For some reason some players just do great in the playoffs and under pressure but he may never have that chance again. Look at Terry Bradshaw's numbers, they were horrible, but in the playoffs the guy was insane. 

Defenses tend to play more conservative in the postseason.  It’s a big reason why Mark Sanchez had more success in the postseason than regular season, especially when you factor in how good the rest of the roster was (and how aggressive Rex Ryan was with his defense regardless of it being a postseason game).

Yes, some guys really are clutch, but I dunno if it applies for ALL QBs who put together some good playoff games.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

7 hours ago, munchmemory said:

"His skill set attributes are far far above “average”.   That's the party line.  And what Woody and especially JD are hanging their hats on.  So far, I haven't seen anything about Zach Wilson to get excited about.  IMO, he never becomes a Jet franchise QB.

Hope you’re wrong, although you could be right.

When Wilson came back from injury, they made him take baby steps with ball security being first on the list.  The trajectory of his game definitely improved for the rest of the season, no denying that.  He also played with a totally decimated squad, this year would be much different.  I say “would”, because I don’t trust anything they say when classifying injuries.

The throws he hit all throughout the game where he would have beaten Brady if the Jet D didn’t fail on the final drive, were highly impressive, virtually all made in the tightest of windows.  This year will show whether he can do that again.  If that game was only a flash, then you look for someone else.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

51 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Flacco had one of the most dominant playoff appearances ever. Peyton Manning with a broken neck still top 5 QB all time, Nick Foles? Took advantage of a perfect storm. 

Average QBs can go on runs..  Manning was pretty bad during that game and was nowhere near elite that season.

Regardless, we need some good to excellent QB play from Wilson.  Don’t disagree.

[GangGreened]

4 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

Not true....I definitely do not see the elite traits but I want that kid to succeed because I'm way beyond tired of seeing us start over at qb. I want like hell for all of you to be right since clearly I can't spot qb talent to save my live.

But no, I don't see elite. For a good bit last year he looked like he didn't belong in this league at all, then toward the end of the season I felt a hell of a lot better about him....but elite? No, not yet.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.
 

They think he has “elite” traits because he has a good arm and listened to Chris Simms. He has “elite” arm strength. There is not one other “elite” facet to his game 

[Saul Goodman]

Zach isn’t the type of QB that was ever going to be average. Strong arm, inaccurate, bails from the pocket when there’s pressure.  And not a caretaker of the ball.  He’s either going to outright bust or be a top QB. 

[DetroitRed]

Just now, Saul Goodman said:

Zach isn’t the type of QB that was ever going to be average. Strong arm, inaccurate, bails from the pocket when there’s pressure.  And not a caretaker of the ball.  He’s either going to outright bust or be a top QB. 

Inaccurate in the pros,  not in college.  Took care of the ball in college, not so much in the pros.  Maybe this will continue, maybe it won’t.   We are hoping he cleans it up.  Not impossible 

[JoJoTownsell1]

41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Much of the love directed at Flacco, Mike White, Streveler and Josh Johnson the last 2 years is more of an indictment of how people view Wilson than anything else.

I don’t ACTUALLY think any of these QBs are really any good.  They just all have been more appealing options than our # 2 overall pick and that’s the sad part.  

If Wilson were any good no one would give a single f**k about all these backup QBs.

I know that, I also know the reason for that. It's because many of your brains are broken by having watched Geno, Sanchez, Darnold all fail.. It's so broken that otherwise intelligent people are calling for Mike White, Streveler and Flacco to start for this team when EVERY NFL GM would agree that they suck and if we cut all of them ZERO teams would give them a chance to start. 

Yet some here are actually arguing for these guys to start over the kid we just drafted #2 overall last year. 

Wilson may come back and just look awful. Fine. We can move on. I am not arguing for Wilson being great. I would just like to see the kid play one snap in a offense with Garret Wilson, Conklin and Breece before I give up on him. Meanwhile the great Flacco is now a impressive 1-6 as a Jet with that 1 win needing a miracle to happen. 

[munchmemory]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

Who’s Pitts?

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Who’s Pitts?

Seriously?

[Rhg1084]

45 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Seriously?

Lol I thought he was talking about QBs … I asked him what QB we should’ve taken in 2nd rd as he suggested and he responded with “Pitts”

[roscoeword]

12 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Because Tua didn’t go from average to great.  His receiving core went from avg to great.

 

 

Great sentence 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, roscoeword said:

Great sentence 

Tua isn’t some bum made great By a great cast. He was already on a very nice trajectory even with his previous lousy weaponz. Yet again goes to show that the cult of arm strength might be the whackiest in football.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Tua isn’t some bum made great By a great cast. He was already on a very nice trajectory even with his previous lousy weaponz. Yet again goes to show that the cult of arm strength might be the whackiest in football.

Never said he was some bum.  Said he was an average starting QB, not top 10, not bottom 10. He was ranked 19th by NFL.com entering this year.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Never said he was some bum.  Said he was an average starting QB, not top 10, not bottom 10. He was ranked 19th by NFL.com entering this year.

The trend my friend the trend. His first year was incredible considering the college injury he was coming back from. His first 16 games in the league he put up stats that would’ve been a top 5 Jets QB season ever.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

The trend my friend the trend. His first year was incredible considering the college injury he was coming back from. His first 16 games in the league he put up stats that would’ve been a top 5 Jets QB season ever.

You’re giving him the benefit of the doubt on growth trends but not Zach who showed progress ending the season with a cast of playmakers who wouldn’t make it to the finals of a flag football league.

Context my friend ;)

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

You’re giving him the benefit of the doubt on growth trends but not Zach who showed progress ending the season with a cast of playmakers who wouldn’t make it to the finals of a flag football league.

Context my friend

Now I know that giddy feeling a spider gets when a fly lands right in its web. 

Tua year 1: 87.1 QB rating

Tua year 2: 90.1 rating.

—

BYU: 69.7. He looked slightest less sh*tty for 4 games.

So please tell me… what trend year 2 would give you the confidence in him going forward that I had in Tua to call him “criminally underrated?” I called it in advance. Do the same witcha boy.

[DetroitRed]

Tua is a good player, no doubt.  Scary?  Nah.  And nobody is telling me that he isn’t one bad snap away from IR.  

[PepPep]

20 hours ago, fullblast said:

I mean... he threw 9 TDs last year. Flacco is already more than halfway to that.

Thats a bit deceptive. he was putrid against the ravens and threw one td in garbage time. The browns game where the threw 4tds seems TO ME to be more of an outlier. Flacco is clearly not a playmaking QB, imo. 

Also, better offense than last year, more weapons, Zach in his second year, etc., etc., yadda yadda, not to get into a whole thing but to just compare Zachs TD total from last year and say 'well, Flacco has half of that already' is kind of silly. And you know this!

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Tua is a good player, no doubt.  Scary?  Nah.  And nobody is telling me that he isn’t one bad snap away from IR.  

Like Zach so far, durability/availability is clearly a concern for Tua. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Thats a bit deceptive. he was putrid against the ravens and threw one td in garbage time. The browns game where the threw 4tds seems TO ME to be more of an outlier. Flacco is clearly not a playmaking QB, imo. 

Also, better offense than last year, more weapons, Zach in his second year, etc., etc., yadda yadda, not to get into a whole thing but to just compare Zachs TD total from last year and say 'well, Flacco has half of that already' is kind of silly. And you know this!

It’s not silly it’s a statistical comparison. Once you start removing data points to fit a narrative it becomes an opinion, which is fine, but a numerical comparison is never “silly.”

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Like Zach so far, durability/availability is clearly a concern for Tua. 

Durability definitely a red flag for Tua. But he also doesn’t suck, so there’s that.

[faba]

Sorry average does not cut it to be  a winning franchise especially when you are a draft pick like he was

[DetroitRed]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Like Zach so far, durability/availability is clearly a concern for Tua. 

Absolutely.  Zach injuries are concerning.  Not on the same level , IMO.   Tua seems to fracture way too easy.  He has a bunch of them and a very serious hip injury.  

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Absolutely.  Zach injuries are concerning.  Not on the same level , IMO.   Tua seems to fracture way too easy.  He has a bunch of them and a very serious hip injury.  

If Zach suffers a third knee injury to the same knee anytime soon, I'll be quite honest, he's flawed goods IMO and I might cut bait just for that unless his play improves to Top-15 levels in the interim.  Just my opinion.

[DetroitRed]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If Zach suffers a third knee injury to the same knee anytime soon, I'll be quite honest, he's flawed goods IMO and I might cut bait just for that unless his play improves to Top-15 levels in the interim.  Just my opinion.

Yup.  No more juking anytime soon 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Now I know that giddy feeling a spider gets when a fly lands right in its web. 

Tua year 1: 87.1 QB rating

Tua year 2: 90.1 rating.

—

BYU: 69.7. He looked slightest less sh*tty for 4 games.

So please tell me… what trend year 2 would give you the confidence in him going forward that I had in Tua to call him “criminally underrated?” I called it in advance. Do the same witcha boy.

This was a topic about average QBs.  My argument was Zach had to get to average for this offense to take a BIG step forward but didn’t necessarily need to get to elite.  I truly believe he can get to average and has elite upside but nobody in their right mind would argue that Zach is criminally underrated.

Good call on your part with regard to Tua.  But criminally underrated does not mean elite.  Tua threw for 16 TDs and 10 Int in year 2.  He was NOT rated as an elite QB at any point last year or entering this year.  However, there are many who believe he can and will put up elite stats with a pair of STUD WRs.  And he is off to showing that.

And that’s my point on Zach.  He / the offense can get to elite type status IF his supporting cast is as good as many of us think it can be, provided he becomes an average starting QB (significantly better than Flacco).

That’s a very logic based assessment.  

[fullblast]

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Thats a bit deceptive. he was putrid against the ravens and threw one td in garbage time. The browns game where the threw 4tds seems TO ME to be more of an outlier. Flacco is clearly not a playmaking QB, imo. 

Also, better offense than last year, more weapons, Zach in his second year, etc., etc., yadda yadda, not to get into a whole thing but to just compare Zachs TD total from last year and say 'well, Flacco has half of that already' is kind of silly. And you know this!

My argument was not pro-Flacco, it was that Zach didn't show much last year to suggest that he's a "playmaking QB." We're hoping he can be that.

I think that this is where a big divide occurs within this fanbase. I'm personally beyond the point of wishing and hoping that our QBs pan out in the face of scant evidence. I need to see it at this point.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

This was a topic about average QBs.  My argument was Zach had to get to average for this offense to take a BIG step forward but didn’t necessarily need to get to elite.  I truly believe he can get to average and has elite upside but nobody in their right mind would argue that Zach is criminally underrated.

Good call on your part with regard to Tua.  But criminally underrated does not mean elite.  Tua threw for 16 TDs and 10 Int in year 2.  He was NOT rated as an elite QB at any point last year or entering this year.  However, there are many who believe he can and will put up elite stats with a pair of STUD WRs.  And he is off to showing that.

And that’s my point on Zach.  He / the offense can get to elite type status IF his supporting cast is as good as many of us think it can be, provided he becomes an average starting QB (significantly better than Flacco).

That’s a very logic based assessment.  

Thanks for the thoughtful response. The disagreement for me is that I think BYU is a molasses processor who lacks the horsepower upstairs to capitalize on these or any weaponz. As always, waiting and praying for that day I’m wrong about a Jets QB.

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, fullblast said:

My argument was not pro-Flacco, it was that Zach didn't show much to suggest that he's a "playmaking QB".

The anti-Zaxxer/pro-stat positions have morphed into some unholy Q-Anonesque mega-conspiracy by the “believing equals actualization” Deepak Chopra segmentation of Jets fans.

[PepPep]

44 minutes ago, jgb said:

It’s not silly it’s a statistical comparison. Once you start removing data points to fit a narrative it becomes an opinion, which is fine, but a numerical comparison is never “silly.”

Dont give me that mumbojumbo. LOL.  ?   Statistical comparison. lmfao

All I said was that it was a deceptive stat. b/c of the sample size and circumstances. You are making a comparison between a full season and two games between two very different players in very different circumstances without bringing added context.

So yea, I think its silly. IMO, ? I think its silly to say that Zach threw for 9TDs all season last year (which clearly is a low number for a full season as a starting QB) while Flacco has 5 in two games and imply that THAT may be a reason Flacco is a better option, better playmaker, better offensive threat, better QB to put up points in this offense- etc., etc. than a healthy Zach Wilson. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Dont give me that mumbojumbo. LOL.  ?   Statistical comparison. lmfao

All I said was that it was a deceptive stat. b/c of the sample size and circumstances. You are making a comparison between a full season and two games between two very different players in very different circumstances without bringing added context.

So yea, I think its silly. IMO, ? I think its silly to say that Zach threw for 9TDs all season last year (which clearly is a low number for a full season as a starting QB) while Flacco has 5 in two games and imply that THAT may be a reason Flacco is a better option, better playmaker, better offensive threat, better QB to put up points in this offense- etc., etc. than a healthy Zach Wilson. 

You can disagree but you’re arguing against the Illuminati running Big Math.

[Lith]

26 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

This was a topic about average QBs.  My argument was Zach had to get to average for this offense to take a BIG step forward but didn’t necessarily need to get to elite.  I truly believe he can get to average and has elite upside but nobody in their right mind would argue that Zach is criminally underrated.

Good call on your part with regard to Tua.  But criminally underrated does not mean elite.  Tua threw for 16 TDs and 10 Int in year 2.  He was NOT rated as an elite QB at any point last year or entering this year.  However, there are many who believe he can and will put up elite stats with a pair of STUD WRs.  And he is off to showing that.

And that’s my point on Zach.  He / the offense can get to elite type status IF his supporting cast is as good as many of us think it can be, provided he becomes an average starting QB (significantly better than Flacco).

That’s a very logic based assessment.  

I would agree.  Average for this season is fine -- actually woulld be a very big step in a positive direction after last season.  If we can get average QB play, Like 16th rated QB play, we should be playing meaningful games in December -- or something else is radicallly wrong with this team.

I certainly hope for better than average over the course of his career.  But average in 2022 is fine.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Lith said:

I would agree.  Average for this season is fine -- actually woulld be a very big step in a positive direction after last season.  If we can get average QB play, Like 16th rated QB play, we should be playing meaningful games in December -- or something else is radicallly wrong with this team.

I certainly hope for better than average over the course of his career.  But average in 2022 is fine.

I have multiple outstanding bets that he won’t achieve average play. After the Darnold experience, I have less hope they will pay up than for BYU.

It’s like a religion for these guys. 

[PepPep]

21 minutes ago, fullblast said:

My argument was not pro-Flacco, it was that Zach didn't show much last year to suggest that he's a "playmaking QB." We're hoping he can be that.

I think that this is where a big divide occurs within this fanbase. I'm personally beyond the point of wishing and hoping that our QBs pan out in the face of scant evidence. I need to see it at this point.

 

Well I kind of think you are not giving Zach much time to 'pan out'. If you are just looking at Zachs potential- He has great deep ball accuracy and arm strength. He is athletic enough to bite off chunks of yardage for you as a runner. He is creative and can deliver the ball from tough angles that allow him to make plays other QBs can't. I mean, when you talk about a QB with potential to be a playmaker- this guy reaches that nfl level. And its his second year in the league. He's definitely still learning the NFL game. 

And his age and inexperience is not an excuse. Its just common sense. You're beyond the point of what...waiting longer than one season for a rookie QB to develop? We just added all these weapons, Zach had a very promising tail end of his rookie campaign and you want to tell me what...that we should trot out Flacco and see what he has left in his broken down 37yr old body...while Zach rots on the bench? 

 

[fullblast]

13 minutes ago, PepPep said:

 

Well I kind of think you are not giving Zach much time to 'pan out'. If you are just looking at Zachs potential- He has great deep ball accuracy and arm strength. He is athletic enough to bite off chunks of yardage for you as a runner. He is creative and can deliver the ball from tough angles that allow him to make plays other QBs can't. I mean, when you talk about a QB with potential to be a playmaker- this guy reaches that nfl level. And its his second year in the league. He's definitely still learning the NFL game. 

And his age and inexperience is not an excuse. Its just common sense. You're beyond the point of what...waiting longer than one season for a rookie QB to develop? We just added all these weapons, Zach had a very promising tail end of his rookie campaign and you want to tell me what...that we should trot out Flacco and see what he has left in his broken down 37yr old body...while Zach rots on the bench? 

 

Where did I say that they should leave Zach on the bench?