Long Island Leprechaun Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: You guys get way too fired up about PFF. It is a tool. It is not the final line to judge a player. They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range. You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per. They try to judge on "doing your job" which is how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players. They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job. No reason to get upset over it. There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape. Who's getting bent out of shape. We're just calling it for what it is. Complete garbage. Seems pretty rational and straightforward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Claymation said: I listened to a PFF podcast segment on the Jets game today and they were praising Sauce to the high heavens and glossed right over Quinnen. I guess they don't want to emphasize how ridiculous their rating system is. Anyone who watched the game could tell you that Quinnen was the best player on the field. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: I listened to a PFF podcast segment on the Jets game today and they were praising Sauce to the high heavens and glossed right over Quinnen. I guess they don't want to emphasize how ridiculous their rating system is. Anyone who watched the game could tell you that Quinnen was the best player on the field. I couldn't agree more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvill 51 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said: It's a sh*tty tool for rating players, but it still has value. I guess I will stop posting here since I am a lot closer to caveman than analytics nerd, but I find it amusing how many people love to wave the banner when it supports their agenda and then seem mortally offended when it doesn't. I just don’t see the value in it if it’s bad at the thing it is supposedly trying to do. But yes, the confirmation bias/hypocrisy about the grades is amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: It was a counter to the wing back on an inside handoff with motion behind it. When’s the last time you saw a team run that kind of play? Many moons ago, my HS ran the Delaware Wing. So I am quite familiar with the "24 Counter". I just realized I remember the name of the play. I can't remember to take the garbage out on trash days, but this play that I haven't ran in over 40 years, I can remember the name of the play. lol 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: You guys get way too fired up about PFF. It is a tool. It is not the final line to judge a player. Right - but the salient point is that it is not a particularly useful tool. Hence, the mockery 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Hmmm. Gonna have to read the grades before I commit to giving any stock to them this week... 3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: Somehow Q doesn't make the top 5 defensive grades for the Jets after destroying everything in his path for 4 quarters. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Claymation said: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: You guys get way too fired up about PFF. It is a tool. It is not the final line to judge a player. They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range. You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per. They try to judge on "doing your job" which is how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players. They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job. No reason to get upset over it. There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape. Still makes sense. Any scoring system that takes what obviously was a top player of that game and doesn’t include him in your top 6 players is a failed system. Isn’t much of a tool IMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, JiFapono said: It's stupid and I hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: I listened to a PFF podcast segment on the Jets game today and they were praising Sauce to the high heavens and glossed right over Quinnen. I guess they don't want to emphasize how ridiculous their rating system is. Anyone who watched the game could tell you that Quinnen was the best player on the field. This falls-in-line with their mantra that coverage > pass rush. Which is seemingly why Dallas, the 49ers and Jets are playing great D right now (pass rush defenses) while the Baltimore Ravens and their ridiculously paid secondary have given up the fourth most passing yards and fifth most passing TD's. https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/defense/passing/2022/reg/all It's not just the grades with PFF, their "grand, unified, theoretical conclusions" about football suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadienJetsFan Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, PS17 said: Who cares about PFF grades? We should ONLY be caring about whether Breece will win another Pepsi Rookie of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, T0mShane said: Agree with this also Zach Wilson with the mighty 38 passing grade (even @JiFaponofave Justin Fields put up a 55.5 against the Commanders on Thursday). The day that PFF gives Zach Wilson an 80+ grade... T0m: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Claymation said: They referred to the Breece Hall counter play as a gimmick play in their podcast, this play has been around for ages. The Packers used that play in the 60's with Taylor and Hornung, The Steelers with Blier and Harris, The Redskins and 49ers. To call it a gimmick play is just flat out stupid. orlovsky said they changed it up a little to sell the run play going to the right a little more. sounds like it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, bostonmajet said: Wait - if PFF says ZW sucks is it still garbage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballLove Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 PFF is like the Maddon Curse. If PFF gives a player a top grade, look out. That player is about to be cut or traded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 16 hours ago, Spoot-Face said: The day that PFF gives Zach Wilson an 80+ grade... T0m: Only the luddite normies obsess over the “grades.” I spend all my time in their Premium Stats section, breaking down Zach Wilson failures by down, distance, and situation. For a big math and data guy like myself, it’s orgiastic good times. Here’s Zach Wilson, still dead last, in the “performance when pressured” category. @The Crusher 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Only the luddite normies obsess over the “grades.” I spend all my time in their Premium Stats section, breaking down Zach Wilson failures by down, distance, and situation. For a big math and data guy like myself, it’s orgiastic good times. Here’s Zach Wilson, still dead last, in the “performance when pressured” category. PFF Premium: $39.99 12-pack of facial tissues from Costco: $19.99 2-pack of 20 oz bottle of Aveeno hand lotion $17.99 2 Stainless steel nipple clamps: $13.99 Confirming the belief that Zach Wilson sucks at football: Priceless 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, PS17 said: The fact that this guy works for PFF is all you need to know about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdub03 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said: PFF Premium: $39.99 12-pack of facial tissues from Costco: $19.99 2-pack of 20 oz bottle of Aveeno hand lotion $17.99 2 Stainless steel nipple clamps: $13.99 Confirming the belief that Zach Wilson sucks at football: Priceless Raise you hand if you started adding these costs up, only to find out you spent the last few seconds calculating Tom's monthly masterbation expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jdub03 said: Raise you hand if you started adding these costs up, only to find out you spent the last few seconds calculating Tom's monthly masterbation expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 PFF is like the Brady Quinn of 'Analytics' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 17 hours ago, PS17 said: I don't think people would feel so passionately about PFF if they weren't the most arrogant assh*le commentators out there. The worst kind of nerds are the confident ones. They always speak definitively and in absolutes in a league notorious for it's unpredictability. It's especially bad as they're supposed to be the objective analytical guys yet constantly get emotional about things. Monson and this douchebag are especially trash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: That tweet, and this one… …are a very bad, look for PFF. I mean, no one really takes them seriously already, but this is a “Senior Analyst” showing that he, more likely than not, will spin himself into a pretzel to discredit certain player’s performances because he can’t separate his fandom from his work and remain objective. ***Edit*** They gave Skylar Thompson an 89.3 on 24 snaps. His stat line was 7 of 13 for 89 yards. Zach Sieler graded out at a 90.2…with 3 total tackles (2 solo, 1 assisted) and a FF. My goodness. The dude isn’t even a bad player, but if Quinnen’s performance gets what it gets, and Sieler gets a 90.2, your formulas/metrics are not calculating properly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, Mogglez said: That tweet, and this one… …are a very bad, look for PFF. I mean, no one really takes them seriously already, but this is a “Senior Analyst” showing that he, more likely than not, will spin himself into a pretzel to discredit certain player’s performances because he can’t separate his fandom from his work and remain objective. ***Edit*** They gave Skylar Thompson an 89.3 on 24 snaps. His stat line was 7 of 13 for 89 yards. Zach Sieler graded out at a 90.2…with 3 total tackles (2 solo, 1 assisted) and a FF. My goodness. The dude isn’t even a bad player, but if Quinnen’s performance gets what it gets, and Sieler gets a 90.2, your calculations are not right. that's pretty funny. obviously biased garbage. PFF should do themselves a favor and move on from this "senior analyst" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvill 51 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Mogglez said: Man, the Jets had only one guy rated above a 76 (Sauce with an 80) and they blew out the Packers on the road. The Dolphins had at least a quarter of their starters grade out better than anyone on the Jets this week and they played at home, surely they must have won by 50?? Huh. Odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Just now, jvill 51 said: Man, the Jets had only one guy rated above a 76 (Sauce with an 80) and they blew out the Packers on the road. The Dolphins had at least a quarter of their starters grade out better than anyone on the Jets this week and they played at home, surely they must have won by 50?? Huh. Odd. Exactly. Look, the Dolphins have good players. That being said, this is egregious, even for PFFs normal standards. Especially when you have a Senior Analyst, who doesn’t hide the fact that he’s a diehard Dolphins fan, doubling down on the grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 I love the concept of an objective statistical performance grade. Particularly by reviewing film and considering situational factors. But the execution of PFF is a complete failure. For one thing, how can they really get those grades out same day often within the hour of games ending? That suggests they aren't really reviewing film at all. Then there's this. I would be supportive if another site cropped up to do this the right way, but until then, this is just Stephen A Smith wrapped in a thin veneer of 'objectivity'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Unbiased my butt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 PFF backpedals after catching so much crap, adjusts grade. Still not as good as half the Dolphins offense scored this week in another loss. Top 5 fins offense w6 WR Tyreek Hill – 91.2 QB Skylar Thompson – 89.3 QB Teddy Bridgewater – 80.5 TE Mike Gesicki – 77.7 WR River Cracraft – 73.2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 they changed his grade LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomebodytoAnybody47 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Just now, Barry McCockinner said: PFF backpedals after catching so much crap, adjusts grade. Still not as good as half the Dolphins scored this week. Damn, Jets Twitter straight up bullied this guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said: Damn, Jets Twitter straight up bullied this guy. Yes, now he graded out slightly better than Fins HOF WR River Cracraft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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