Week 6 PFF Grades

[Barry McCockinner]

Tomlinson graded out well for the first time this year I believe. Maybe has something to do with having the same LT next to him for the first time? @slats

Somehow Q doesn't make the top 5 defensive grades for the Jets after destroying everything in his path for 4 quarters.

[Claymation]

 

 

[Claymation]

PFF is a joke.

[nycdan]

Yeah.  As I said earlier in the Quinnen thread - PFF is finally being exposed as a complete fraud.  Every single post of PFF grades on Twitter gets met with hundreds of comments roasting them.  Eventually the haters will get bored and there will be about 7 people left talking about PFF.  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

What a joke. Q Williams, as you said, was an absolute wrecking ball. These grades are worthless.

[Untouchable]

I’ve said for years that PFF is sh*t

Nearly a decade ago they had either Ben Hartsock or Matthew Mulligan rated as one of the Top 3 TE’s in football (ahead of Gronk) despite not catching a single pass that season. I don’t give a sh*t if you’re the best inline blocker of all-time at the position, that’s just goofy.

[jetsons]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Tomlinson graded out well for the first time this year I believe. Maybe has something to do with having the same LT next to him for the first time? @slats

Somehow Q doesn't make the top 5 defensive grades for the Jets after destroying everything in his path for 4 quarters.

pff IS A JOKE

[rtnelson]

I'm stunned.  I absolutely thought Q was going to have a 90 something grade.  Dude balled out like you see few interior DL do in the league.  I enjoy PFF's commentary on some of their shows, but holy smokes whoever is doing these grades must be watching through binoculars on a black and white 12 inch screen from two states away.  What a joke.

[#27TheDominator]

You guys get way too fired up about PFF.  It is a tool.  It is not the final line to judge a player.  They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range.  You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per.  They try to judge on "doing your job" which is  how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players.  They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job.  No reason to get upset over it.  There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape.  

[JiFtheOracle]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You guys get way too fired up about PFF.  It is a tool.  It is not the final line to judge a player.  They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range.  You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per.  They try to judge on "doing your job" which is  how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players.  They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job.  No reason to get upset over it.  There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape.  

It's stupid and I hate it.

[Beerfish]

PFF grade for Beerfish being handsome and charming is 75 so shut up!

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You guys get way too fired up about PFF.  It is a tool.  It is not the final line to judge a player.  They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range.  You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per.  They try to judge on "doing your job" which is  how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players.  They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job.  No reason to get upset over it.  There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape.  

Agree with this also Zach Wilson with the mighty 38 passing grade (even @JiFaponofave Justin Fields put up a 55.5 against the Commanders on Thursday).

[Claymation]

27 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You guys get way too fired up about PFF.  It is a tool.  It is not the final line to judge a player.  They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range.  You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per.  They try to judge on "doing your job" which is  how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players.  They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job.  No reason to get upset over it.  There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape.  

They referred to the Breece Hall counter play as a gimmick play in their podcast, this play has been around for ages. The Packers used that play in the 60's with Taylor and Hornung, The Steelers with Blier and Harris, The Redskins and 49ers. To call it a gimmick play is just flat out stupid. 

[Gastineau Lives]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agree with this also Zach Wilson with the mighty 38 passing grade (even @JiFaponofave Justin Fields put up a 55.5 against the Commanders on Thursday).

Every thread, you sh*t bird?

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, Claymation said:

They referred to the Breece Hall counter play as a gimmick play in their podcast, this play has been around for ages. The Packers used that play in the 60's with Taylor and Hornung, The Steelers with Blier and Harris, The Redskins and 49ers. To call it a gimmick play is just flat out stupid. 

Breece Hall was supposed to flip it back to Garrett Wilson on the reverse. It was a trick play that Breece turned into a Packers sweep

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Every thread, you sh*t bird?

It’s a thread about PFF grades!

[Claymation]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Breece Hall was supposed to flip it back to Garrett Wilson on the reverse. It was a trick play that Breece turned into a Packers sweep

It was still a counter play. What they were supposed to do has no bearing on what actually happened.

[JohnnyLV]

59 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You guys get way too fired up about PFF.  It is a tool.  It is not the final line to judge a player.  They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range.  You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per.  They try to judge on "doing your job" which is  how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players.  They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job.  No reason to get upset over it.  There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape.  

And the worst two picks in the draft the last 2 years was AVT and Breece Hall. And I am not exaggerating. 

PFF grades don't align with reality. For analytics guys they use far too small a range for plays. And they do not have context. Let's say a sack is +2. Well a strip sack is a bigger play than a regular sack. A sack on 3rd or 4th down is a bigger play than a first down sack.

What PFF shows is how constent you are in not making bad plays in reality.

Paul Alexander lives PFF because the methodology aligns well OL play. Other positions not so much.

Q will win defensive player of the week but PFF can't account for explosiveness.

[JohnnyLV]

3 minutes ago, Claymation said:

It was still a counter play. What they were supposed to do has no bearing on what actually happened.

And I guarantee we will see more of it. In the over pursuing modern NFL a play as old as dirt can exploit thar. The play was really close to me and the trap action is both like a draw and reverse at same time. It was terrific to watch

[bostonmajet]

Wait - if PFF says ZW sucks is it still garbage?

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Claymation said:

It was still a counter play. What they were supposed to do has no bearing on what actually happened.

It was a counter to the wing back on an inside handoff with motion behind it. When’s the last time you saw a team run that kind of play?

[#27TheDominator]

38 minutes ago, Claymation said:

They referred to the Breece Hall counter play as a gimmick play in their podcast, this play has been around for ages. The Packers used that play in the 60's with Taylor and Hornung, The Steelers with Blier and Harris, The Redskins and 49ers. To call it a gimmick play is just flat out stupid. 

Didn't I read somewhere that it was supposed to be a throw back and Hall (smartly) kept it?  I would consider a throw back a gimmick play no matter how many years they have existed.

[PS17]

 

[jvill 51]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You guys get way too fired up about PFF.  It is a tool.  It is not the final line to judge a player.  They judge on each play with a +2 to -2 range.  You can have 10 unreal plays, but they aren't going to get you more than 2 points per.  They try to judge on "doing your job" which is  how Hartsock/Mulligan might rate highly despite being JAG level players.  They don't actually know the play calls, so they can certainly screw up their idea of what constitutes the players job.  No reason to get upset over it.  There are reasons to look at when a player looks bad and grades highly and vice versa, but no reason to get all bent out of shape.  

If your tool says that maybe the best player on the field in any NFL game yesterday wasn’t a top 10 player on his own team, it’s a pretty sh*tty tool.

(PFF’s advanced stats/charting are useful. Their grades are subjective garbage masquerading as analytics)

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

And the worst two picks in the draft the last 2 years was AVT and Breece Hall. And I am not exaggerating. 

PFF grades don't align with reality. For analytics guys they use far too small a range for plays. And they do not have context. Let's say a sack is +2. Well a strip sack is a bigger play than a regular sack. A sack on 3rd or 4th down is a bigger play than a first down sack.

What PFF shows is how constent you are in not making bad plays in reality.

Paul Alexander lives PFF because the methodology aligns well OL play. Other positions not so much.

Q will win defensive player of the week but PFF can't account for explosiveness.

I don't argue any of this.  I think it is a useful tool.  When you start ******* with the model to make it "right" you **** up the model.  I am fine with it not accounting for explosiveness.  I don't think the problem is PFF.  I think the problem is people acting like PFF is gospel.  

[Larz]

RIP pff lol 

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

If your tool says that maybe the best player on the field in any NFL game yesterday wasn’t a top 10 player on his own team, it’s a pretty sh*tty tool.

(PFF’s advanced stats/charting are useful. Their grades are subjective garbage masquerading as analytics)

It's a sh*tty tool for rating players, but it still has value.  I guess I will stop posting here since I am a lot closer to caveman than analytics nerd, but I find it amusing how many people love to wave the banner when it supports their agenda and then seem mortally offended when it doesn't.

[Claymation]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It was a counter to the wing back on an inside handoff with motion behind it. When’s the last time you saw a team run that kind of play?

49ers last year. 

[redlichtie]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Tomlinson graded out well for the first time this year I believe. Maybe has something to do with having the same LT next to him for the first time? @slats

Somehow Q doesn't make the top 5 defensive grades for the Jets after destroying everything in his path for 4 quarters.

I’m sorry but even Stevie Wonder could see that Q was an absolute wrecking ball on almost every play…he was dominant and a game changer…not that those other guys didn’t play well, they absolutely did, but his non-appearance in their top 5 just illustrates the utter worthlessness of PFF grades….just use your eyes(with all due apologies to Stevie)

[redlichtie]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

PFF grade for Beerfish being handsome and charming is 75 so shut up!

You are the Ben Hartsock of JN…congrats ?

[65 Toss Power Trap]

Here were my questions before reading the comments on this board suggesting PFF is worthless:

1. I've never understood the thinking behind pff. What is the point?

2. Has pff ever proven useful/true/telling/impactful in decision making?

3. There are many stats/metrics/analytics that are heavily watched in football (completion %, yaf, total yards, turnover ratio, sacks, hurry ups, tfl, yards given up, points per quarter, etc. so forth and many more). So what does pff add that is so important?

[Lith]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Somehow Q doesn't make the top 5 defensive grades for the Jets after destroying everything in his path for 4 quarters.

In fairness to PFF, if you eliminate the 5 tackles, 2 sacks, the 1 run stuff, the forced fumble, the two tackles for loss, 3 QB hits.  Oh yeah, and the blocked field goal.  Well, then he just had an average game.

[jamesr]

And I guarantee we will see more of it. In the over pursuing modern NFL a play as old as dirt can exploit thar. The play was really close to me and the trap action is both like a draw and reverse at same time. It was terrific to watch

That image of Hall with something like 9 Packers players trailing in his wake was a thing of beauty.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Greensleeves]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Tomlinson graded out well for the first time this year I believe. Maybe has something to do with having the same LT next to him for the first time? @slats

Somehow Q doesn't make the top 5 defensive grades for the Jets after destroying everything in his path for 4 quarters.

Why even give these guys a forum? Q was the best player on the field (offensive, defense) and it was obvious. He's graded by PFF as not even in the top 6 just for our D. I would be embarrassed if I worked there.

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, PS17 said:

 

What a frikkin' jack-ass.