Double Dipping at QB in the 2023 Draft

[Rangers9]

I might draft late if a good college Qb like the TCU guy or Stetson Bennett is still around a Qb who could exceed expectations probably projected as a backup but could be a game manager and run a pro style offense. I guess your first thought is the 49ers guy who was a good QB at Iowa State and more ready for the NFL then projected. 

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think you carry 4 QBs.  One of those guys is on the practice squad.  That means if he looks like a solid developmental prospect, the 1st team with injuries will poach him.  I don't have a problem with the general idea, I just don't think this is the year.  I think they should try to bring White back and I think they are stuck with Wilson.  If you have too many guys to develop it is like having none. 

"QB is the most important position in the NFL, if you don't have one, you're nothing"

or

"We can't possibly carry 4 QB's on our roster, we need that roster spot for a backup special teams guy!"

Pick one.  

If QB's are lottery tickets, we need as many tickets as possible.  

I'm willing to roster one less special teamer or #5 RB for that.

[Grandy]

I used to scoff at the idea of drafting one every year but now I think it's the move. Too important of a position to draft sparsely.

[rangerous]

Not for nothing, and this has been discussed a lot, zwilson was 5-2 before getting replaced with mfw. The things that impacted zwilsons play was avt and hall going down. The offense looked much better with those two guys. Zwilson looked better and didn’t have to work so hard.

[varjet]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

They're an endless number of scenarios (which I guess makes it fun, right?).

Yours world work, certainly.  If White is willing to stay at low cost.

How about this, the ultimate "try-hard" QB room for 2023:

1. Trade Zach for a 5th

2. Sign Mike White, 2 years, $8M a year.

3. Sign Taylor Heiniecke, 2 years, $8M a year.

4. Draft a QB in Round 1 (whichever you like, Richardson, Levis, Hooker maybe)

5. Draft a 2nd QB in the 5th with the Zach Pick (Duggan maybe?  Pick your developmental long-shot)

 

I like this up to 4.  As others have said, we can’t carry 4 QBs on the 53, and we won’t want to risk a drafted QB on the PS.   I think this overall should be Plan B.

For this regime, Plan A is to draft a QB who knows how to play, particularly in this system.  This CS is in limbo.  It will be hard to get a new coaches to join knowing that Saleh and Co. will be fired next year if the Jets don’t make, or are not very close to making, the playoffs.  I think Saleh needs 9 wins next season for him and JD to survive.  The best way for them to do that is with a veteran QB, and Woody has now incentivized JD to be the high and over bidder.  

There is Jimmy G, Baker and maybe even Brady.  If we trade for Carr we can lock him up.  Those guys don’t need fundamental QB coaching.  A rookie, and even MW, do need that.  

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Not for nothing, and this has been discussed a lot, zwilson was 5-2 before getting replaced with mfw. The things that impacted zwilsons play was avt and hall going down. The offense looked much better with those two guys. Zwilson looked better and didn’t have to work so hard.

So we'll count you in the "We don't need a QB, we have Zach Wilson" group.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

"QB is the most important position in the NFL, if you don't have one, you're nothing"

or

"We can't possibly carry 4 QB's on our roster, we need that roster spot for a backup special teams guy!"

Pick one.  

If QB's are lottery tickets, we need as many tickets as possible.  

I'm willing to roster one less special teamer or #5 RB for that.

I know you think that sounds smart, but it doesn't.  You can't develop 4 guys at the same time.  Those special teamers you want to cut are the Pinnock's and Raheem Mostert's of the world.  They deserve to be "developed" a **** ton more than James Morgan.  At some point you have to decide if a guy has it.  You can't just throw sh*t at the wall, see it be sh*t and expect it not to be sh*t next year. 

[Stark]

3 hours ago, JiFields said:

I think the roster is too sh*tty and thin to double dip at QB but I would be totally cool w/ AR in the 1st and a veteran bridge gap that can lead you to .500 or better for 2 years before AR is ready to take over.  In the meantime, figure out the F'ing OL for god sake and go get some pieces to build around Garret Wilson.

 

 

AVT, Breece... Mitchel health at RT and maybe just maybe Becton is back

Call Arizona see what it takes to get Hopkins they may be willing to move him deep ding on new coach

 

Trade for Lamar, Trade for Rogers (has to be more than 1 year), Carr, Jimmy... if all 4 of these fail then re-sign White to a deal for decent backup money and draft a guy.

 

 

[bonkertons]

I have no problem taking a QB this year, but IMO it would be one QB and it would be later in the draft.  I think it's pretty imperative that we walk away with at least two starters from this draft.  Ideally 3, if we go LT(1st), FS(2nd), LB(3rd).  After that, I'm on board with one of our next two picks being a development QB and one being our future C.

 

But yeah, more sh*t at the wall is a good strategy as far as I'm concerned.  Get this kid on the team and developing in the system for a year.  Staple his ass to the bench the entire season.  Then, in 2024, look to draft a QB early.  By that point most of the holes on this team should be filled.  We should be ready to compete, if we aren't already.  Not to mention, the 2024 crop looks a lot more appealing to me than the 2023 QB class.  

[RutgersJetFan]

Everything else aside the dude from TCU looks like he could handle playing here and after the last 8 gazillion busts I think that’s really the only quality that matters at this point. Starts, stats, accuracy…etc, all important, but if the guy doesn’t have the skin to play in this town for this franchise for these fans don’t even bother. 

[tfine]

This is a terrible idea and a waste of draft picks.


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[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So we'll count you in the "We don't need a QB, we have Zach Wilson" group.

No. The jets need a qb for next season. Just don’t be surprised if zwilson is that guy.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Can't speak on any of the prospects, but as far as strategy or theory goes, I'm beginning to prefer building the team first before drafting QBs.

Give me a journeyman/solid vet and at least two .500  or better seasons with continuity on the coaching staff, a scheme identity and a working offense I can develop a prospect in as opposed to counting on a savior in the draft.

So no, I do not want to draft two quarterbacks this year. 

I feel like that was the Indy Colts approach.  It hasn't gotten them over the hump.

 

5 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I understand SF is a completely different situation, but Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant.  SF has a great roster and good coaching; you don’t need a 1st round QB to succeed.

The roster still needs to be flushed out and I don’t think we can afford spending 2 picks on QBs who won’t contribute during a playoff mandate year.  I would draft one somewhere within rounds 2-4 so he can compete with Zach for #2 & watch whoever we bring in in FA.

First thing’s first, this OL NEEDS to be fixed.  Carr or Jimmy G or whoever will be a waste of money if they have to play behind a similar line next year.

The main difference is that SF is in the NFC.  They don't have to face Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Trevor, Herbert, Lamar.

In this year's playoffs, the NFC has Tom Brady (at age 45), Dak Prescott, Daniel Jones, Kirk Cousins, Jalen Hurts, and Geno Smith (along with Brock "Mr Irrelevant" Purdy).

[Hex]

I don't want to see a QB drafted in the top 2 rounds for the next 2 drafts. Every other time has ended in disaster. Something needs to change.

Plus, Jets can't squander a promising season on another maybe like they used to be able to

[Jetsfan80]

56 minutes ago, rangerous said:

No. The jets need a qb for next season. Just don’t be surprised if zwilson is that guy.

lol what?

[Larz]

We’re getting Zach and Mike and a QB coach 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

We’re getting Zach and Mike and a QB coach 

Blocked

[Larz]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Blocked

Whoa. Easy. We’re probably getting a WR coach too 

[Jetsfan80]

Let's bring in Jackson, Carr, Jimmy G, re-sign White, and draft 3 QBs.

[68JET11]

There are no QB's in this years draft that are 1st round guys... Will there be some taken, for sure, but if we take any it better be in or after round 4.

[choon328]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

We have the debate every year (not having a franchise QB often leads to out of the box questions), and yet again here we are going into the 2023 Draft.

The question:  With what we have (Wilson) under contract, and no certainty to be able to sign veterans from elsewhere, or even resign Mike White (half of the fanbase doesn't want him), is there any argument to be made for double dipping in the 2023 draft at QB.

QB's reasonable available (as of now) where we pick:

13:  small chance Anthony Richardson (Florida), much higher chance for Will Levis (Kentucky)

43: Hendon Hooker (Tenn)

Later Rounds:  Several guys already being mentioned here at JN by folks, like Duggan (TCU) or McKee (Stanford) etc. 

Of course things can change and these guys move up due to workouts/combine/etc.  And this class is meh (so we hear) compared to the 2024 class.

We all keep saying "you don't have a QB, you're not going to compete, so we keep drafting them till we find one", so why not draft 2 if we can and the prospects have enough upside?

And while I personally favor the Veteran QB route right now, it's possible (albeit we fans will hate it) that Woody actually IS in for the long haul with JD/Saleh, and THEY know it/have been told it, so they can feel comfortable NOT chasing a Veteran to win now, but can stick with building via the draft for the next few years, which would bolster a Wilson is kept, but other QB's are drafted/more shots taken.

Again, not advocating for any specific thing here.  Just asking the question:  Should a team without a FQB REALLY do everything possible trying to find one (picking two), or only part of what they could do (picking one).

Food for debate is all.

The Jets need to move heaven and earth to bring in an established top 15 starting QB if one is available, whatever that price may be. Any thing other then that is a failure by the front office. 

[Fantasy Island]

The CS was afraid Streveler would win that game yesterday.  He would have too.  We are stuck in the Zach rut for two more years.  
FML

[choon328]

It's like people haven't learned from this year. 2 of the first 3 picks in the draft should be offensive lineman. A Tackle and Center. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

58 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I feel like that was the Indy Colts approach.  It hasn't gotten them over the hump.

 

The main difference is that SF is in the NFC.  They don't have to face Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Trevor, Herbert, Lamar.

In this year's playoffs, the NFC has Tom Brady (at age 45), Dak Prescott, Daniel Jones, Kirk Cousins, Jalen Hurts, and Geno Smith (along with Brock "Mr Irrelevant" Purdy).

Well, their three best players are a runningback, a guard and an undersized outside linebacker.

That's not how I'd build it.

I like the way the Steelers have gone about developing quarterbacks, same with the Chiefs with Mahomes, Lamar with the Ravens, and anyone that's played quarterback in San Francisco.

Essentially all of those teams had talent, stability and the luxury to sit their rookie quarterbacks for a time. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Well, their three best players are a runningback, a guard and an undersized outside linebacker.

That's not how I'd build it.

I like the way the Steelers have gone about developing quarterbacks, same with the Chiefs with Mahomes, Lamar with the Ravens, and anyone that's played quarterback in San Francisco.

Essentially all of those teams had talent, stability and the luxury to sit their rookie quarterbacks for a time. 

Purdy plays in the NFC and I don't think Pickett is good enough to get the Steelers through the AFC.

Mahomes is an all-time great and Lamar is a superior talent.

 

[jetstream23]

I'd prefer to continue building the rushing attack.  I think we have the right scheme and were unlucky with multiple injuries to significant guys on the OLine (AVT) and at RB (Breece Hall).  A depth chart of Breece/Bam/Carter would be about the best you could get assuming all are healthy.   Jets need to add a very solid, above average, young OT to this team.  They need to treat Becton as the 6th OLineman as they head into Camp, not counting on him at all, but allowing the possibility (25%) that he gets healthy and surprises them by winning a starting spot, maybe at RT.  The TEs are good enough in this rushing scheme.

THAT would make any QB better, especially a Carr or Garapolo type.

[Beerfish]

I'd take a flyer on hooker in the 2nd round but i would not touch levis and richardson with a 100 foot poll

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'd prefer to continue building the rushing attack.  I think we have the right scheme and were unlucky with multiple injuries to significant guys on the OLine (AVT) and at RB (Breece Hall).  A depth chart of Breece/Bam/Carter would be about the best you could get assuming all are healthy.   Jets need to add a very solid, above average, young OT to this team.  They need to treat Becton as the 6th OLineman as they head into Camp, not counting on him at all, but allowing the possibility (25%) that he gets healthy and surprises them by winning a starting spot, maybe at RT.  The TEs are good enough in this rushing scheme.

THAT would make any QB better, especially a Carr or Garapolo type.

I don't have much complaint about Bam Knight, but the rushing game took a complete nosedive when Hall went out.  Some of it was the line, but yikes.  Carter should have been better.  

[rex-n-effect]

4 hours ago, rangerous said:

Not for nothing, and this has been discussed a lot, zwilson was 5-2 before getting replaced with mfw. The things that impacted zwilsons play was avt and hall going down. The offense looked much better with those two guys. Zwilson looked better and didn’t have to work so hard.

If that's the strategy why not trade away ZW, draft a QB later who will be cheaper, and stock up the offense, because the team can win despite the QB?

[RedBeardedSavage]

32 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Purdy plays in the NFC and I don't think Pickett is good enough to get the Steelers through the AFC.

Mahomes is an all-time great and Lamar is a superior talent.

 

I guess the difference here is that your barometer for success is beating Kansas City in the AFC Championship game and I'm saying we have to make the playoffs first.

If we do it my way, we're not continually drafting young quarterbacks and throwing them into less-than-ideal situations hoping for the best - we're building a perennial double-digit winning team that's entertaining to watch every weekend and at some point in the future can take the risk on developing a quarterback.

Burrow and Herbert are the only two quarterbacks I've seen enter a bad situation and turn it around since Peyton. I just don't think that's a recipe for success as much as it is a lotto ticket. 

[rangerous]

12 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

If that's the strategy why not trade away ZW, draft a QB later who will be cheaper, and stock up the offense, because the team can win despite the QB?

that works too.  i'm just thinking there is something that completely wowed douglas and the scouts about wilson that made them take him with the 2 pick.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

that works too.  i'm just thinking there is something that completely wowed douglas and the scouts about wilson that made them take him with the 2 pick.

A throw he made in shorts wowed them.  And then Wilson started playing real NFL games with real bullets flying.  

He sucks.  Move on.

[Jerichoholic]

I like the idea of having MFW locked in as the vet/backup/temporary starter, jettisoning Zack and bringing in two solid other prospects to compete for the starting job.

The $$$FA Qb's and top of the '23 draft QBs aren't the answer.


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[Ron Rico]

16 hours ago, choon328 said:

It's like people haven't learned from this year. 2 of the first 3 picks in the draft should be offensive lineman. A Tackle and Center. 

There is a plethora of OLinemen in the 2023 draft. No excuse to not draft at least two in the first three rounds.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A throw he made in shorts wowed them.  And then Wilson started playing real NFL games with real bullets flying.  

He sucks.  Move on.

i think he needs work but at the same time the the jets did not play to his strengths.  did you listen to douglas' presser yesterday?  he obviously wasn't going to say anything definitive one way or another but they are apparently bringing in a sage offensive guy to look over milf's shoulder.  i have a feeling that something happened in that quiet room saleh was talking about.  it could be that zwilson is forcing milfs hand and from i can tell there's no guarantee milf is coming back regardless of what saleh says.  even the biggest zwilson critic has to say wow when looking at some of the throws he has made.