General Draft/Prospect news

[football guy]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

Skoronski or Paris at 13 is acceptable. Other top couple guys seem riskier. Better off going WR. 

If people think this tackle class is bad, then I don't know what to call the WR class... 

Most people in the know say that these are good, first-round caliber prospects. It's not like they're late first/early second players who are simply being projected to go much higher because of the position they play/team needs. The problem with this class is there is no clear blue chip, top 10 tackle prospect other than Skoronski, who most teams view as a G. This group is more of an 11-20 group, but one or two may get pumped into the top 10 because of need and overall dearth of talent in this class. Jets are drafting 13, so they don't view it as "reaching" per se, they just may not get the kind of value that we thought we were getting with Mekhi at 11 or TB got with Wirfs at 13 in 2020, being that both teams viewed those guys as truly elite blue-chip prospects worthy of being selected top 10 in every class. 

A good comparable: from what I understand, Broderick Jones' grade is on-par with Charles Cross' from last year. The Jets would've drafted Cross at 10 had Garrett Wilson been off the board. If you were willing to draft a very similar prospect at 10 last year, why wouldn't you select the same at 13 this year? Johnson is probably graded a smidge higher, so I would think the same applies to him as well as Skoronski and possibly Wright for that matter (not sure how the character will effect things considering what they went through with Becton/what the coaching staff values). 

[section314]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

If people think this tackle class is bad, then I don't know what to call the WR class... 

Most people in the know say that these are good, first-round caliber prospects. It's not like they're late first/early second players who are simply being projected to go much higher because of the position they play/team needs. The problem with this class is there is no clear blue chip, top 10 tackle prospect other than Skoronski, who most teams view as a G. This group is more of an 11-20 group, but one or two may get pumped into the top 10 because of need and overall dearth of talent in this class. Jets are drafting 13, so they don't view it as "reaching" per se, they just may not get the kind of value that we thought we were getting with Mekhi at 11 or TB got with Wirfs at 13 in 2020, being that both teams viewed those guys as truly elite blue-chip prospects worthy of being selected top 10 in every class. 

A good comparable: from what I understand, Broderick Jones' grade is on-par with Charles Cross' from last year. The Jets would've drafted Cross at 10 had Garrett Wilson been off the board. If you were willing to draft a very similar prospect at 10 last year, why wouldn't you select the same at 13 this year? Johnson is probably graded a smidge higher, so I would think the same applies to him as well as Skoronski and possibly Wright for that matter (not sure how the character will effect things considering what they went through with Becton/what the coaching staff values). 

Do you know how the edge board is stacked? Would they consider it if their top OT guys are gone or if they traded down? Any known interest in LBrs?

[football guy]

17 minutes ago, section314 said:

Do you know how the edge board is stacked? Would they consider it if their top OT guys are gone or if they traded down? Any known interest in LBrs?

I haven't received a ton of info on specific details because their draft board hasn't been officially finalized. Believe its supposed to be by Friday, but don't see them taking a DL unless a top 3-4 guy falls. Also does not sound like its their plan to trade down. Giants assistant GM apparently spoke to a number of guys with the Jets about gauging interest in a trade up, but other than that I haven't heard about trading down. I think its far more likely they target EDGE/DL in round 2. Some additional context: 

• I truthfully mean it when I say that I have not heard anything in connection with them and the first-round DL. Only guy they worked out and met with was Nolan Smith. 
• Calijah Kancey is a very hard prospect to project. I don't see it in round 1, but round 2? Absolutely. Daniel Jeremiah recently toyed with this possibility and I know Whitecotten has worked him out
• Other guys they've met or worked out: BJ Ojulari, Adetomiwa Adebawore, Tuli Tuipulotu, Colby Wooden, Kobie Turner. One scout is really high on Will McDonald IV and Felix Anudike-Uzomah. 
• Keion White was the talk of the Senior Bowl. I was surprised that he didn't come in for a visit, but he's the profile of player I think they really love on the left side of the DL, whether its inside or out wide. 
• One off-the-radar guy they're rumored to be high on is Viliami Fehoko- not sure exactly where though. 

Linebackers: 

• Daiyan Henley visited; sounds like he's going somewhere on day 2 
• Scouts love DeMarvion Overshown. Feel he's a perfect culture/identity fit on defense and has upside. If he's there in round 4 he'd be the pick. 
• As far as draftable players go: Dorian Williams, Owen Pappoe, Ventrell Miller, Dee Winters, Cam Jones all on the radar. Spoke to them at the Senior Bowl, Combine, Pro Days, and met virtually with some if not all.
• My guess is draft one somewhere on Day 3. Day 2 would only happen via trade and a player they love would have to fall. If they don't wind up drafting one they'll absolutely bid heavy in the UDFA market

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

If people think this tackle class is bad, then I don't know what to call the WR class... 

Most people in the know say that these are good, first-round caliber prospects. It's not like they're late first/early second players who are simply being projected to go much higher because of the position they play/team needs. The problem with this class is there is no clear blue chip, top 10 tackle prospect other than Skoronski, who most teams view as a G. This group is more of an 11-20 group, but one or two may get pumped into the top 10 because of need and overall dearth of talent in this class. Jets are drafting 13, so they don't view it as "reaching" per se, they just may not get the kind of value that we thought we were getting with Mekhi at 11 or TB got with Wirfs at 13 in 2020, being that both teams viewed those guys as truly elite blue-chip prospects worthy of being selected top 10 in every class. 

A good comparable: from what I understand, Broderick Jones' grade is on-par with Charles Cross' from last year. The Jets would've drafted Cross at 10 had Garrett Wilson been off the board. If you were willing to draft a very similar prospect at 10 last year, why wouldn't you select the same at 13 this year? Johnson is probably graded a smidge higher, so I would think the same applies to him as well as Skoronski and possibly Wright for that matter (not sure how the character will effect things considering what they went through with Becton/what the coaching staff values). 

I heard Pat Kirwan yesterday ask in general “why is everyone calling in saying their team should take JSN?”  “Why?  He’s a slot guy that runs 4.5 and barely played last season”. Jim Miller then chimed in saying he doesn’t get it either.  “JSN put up great stats during ‘21 season when OSU had Wilson & Olave and opposing teams were focused on those two”. 

[football guy]

5 hours ago, football guy said:

Yes. I sent this and that was the response I got- no additional context was given lol

Daniel Jeremiah this morning: 

"I've heard from people that say the Colts would take Levis over Stroud if both on the board" 

If that happens, there's no clear destination for Stroud. So trying to find the similarities between this class and the 2018 class to try and make the comp to Rosen... 

• #1 Baker Mayfield --- #1 Bryce Young. Bryce is a lot better prospect IMO, but I can see some of the similarities in terms of not necessarily meeting the physical 
• #3 Sam Darnold --- #4(?) Will Levis. I think Sam is a better prospect, but I've seen some respectable scouts compare their games. Talent is there but needs refinement. 
• #7 Josh Allen --- #5-11(?) Anthony Richardson. The surface level comps are all there. There's going to be a team in the top 10 who takes him. So much talent and if he lands in the right spot could have a similar kind of impact on the league. 
• #10 Josh Rosen --- #(?) CJ Stroud. Rosen nor Stroud are "bad character" guys, but a lot of NFL people saw them as entitled and difficult to coach. There was a legit scenario in 2018 where the Jets could've taken Rosen and were comfortable doing so at #3 overall, but he wound out being the guy. Like Rosen, Stroud is a very good thrower of the football and a pure pocket QB. Also like Rosen, Stroud struggled with pressure on tape and played in a scheme that simplified his responsibilities. Rosen busted royally (I personally thought he was going to be good); it's not to say the same will happen to Stroud but I kind of get where the comp comes from in terms of style, experience leading up to the draft, and inevitable fall (if that does in fact happen for Stroud). 

[C Mart]

52 minutes ago, football guy said:

I haven't received a ton of info on specific details because their draft board hasn't been officially finalized. Believe its supposed to be by Friday, but don't see them taking a DL unless a top 3-4 guy falls. Also does not sound like its their plan to trade down. Giants assistant GM apparently spoke to a number of guys with the Jets about gauging interest in a trade up, but other than that I haven't heard about trading down. I think its far more likely they target EDGE/DL in round 2. Some additional context: 

• I truthfully mean it when I say that I have not heard anything in connection with them and the first-round DL. Only guy they worked out and met with was Nolan Smith. 
• Calijah Kancey is a very hard prospect to project. I don't see it in round 1, but round 2? Absolutely. Daniel Jeremiah recently toyed with this possibility and I know Whitecotten has worked him out
• Other guys they've met or worked out: BJ Ojulari, Adetomiwa Adebawore, Tuli Tuipulotu, Colby Wooden, Kobie Turner. One scout is really high on Will McDonald IV and Felix Anudike-Uzomah. 
• Keion White was the talk of the Senior Bowl. I was surprised that he didn't come in for a visit, but he's the profile of player I think they really love on the left side of the DL, whether its inside or out wide. 
• One off-the-radar guy they're rumored to be high on is Viliami Fehoko- not sure exactly where though. 

Linebackers: 

• Daiyan Henley visited; sounds like he's going somewhere on day 2 
• Scouts love DeMarvion Overshown. Feel he's a perfect culture/identity fit on defense and has upside. If he's there in round 4 he'd be the pick. 
• As far as draftable players go: Dorian Williams, Owen Pappoe, Ventrell Miller, Dee Winters, Cam Jones all on the radar. Spoke to them at the Senior Bowl, Combine, Pro Days, and met virtually with some if not all.
• My guess is draft one somewhere on Day 3. Day 2 would only happen via trade and a player they love would have to fall. If they don't wind up drafting one they'll absolutely bid heavy in the UDFA market

Yeah if Douglas stays at 13 and goes OT then the 2nd round pick has to be a Center. 

I am assuming one of the 2nds is going to GB for Rodgers. 

If by some strange miscalculation by GB and the Rodgers trade doesn’t go down by round 2 then I’m all for a DL with the other 2nd. Benton from Wisc or Baylor DT Ika 

[football guy]

3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I heard Pat Kirwan yesterday ask in general “why is everyone calling in saying their team should take JSN?”  “Why?  He’s a slot guy that runs 4.5 and barely played last season”. Jim Miller then chimed in saying he doesn’t get it either.  “JSN put up great stats during ‘21 season when OSU had Wilson & Olave and opposing teams were focused on those two”. 

JSN is a higher-upside Amon-Ra St. Brown IMO. That's not to say he deserves to fall to the 4th round, but he's a scheme/role-specific player who can be a playmaker in the right environment but can also be a bust if you put him in your offense and ask him to do things he's not necessarily capable of doing (or has yet to show that). It's not a criticism- it's just reality. A lot of the same was said about Justin Jefferson too, but he crushed his pre-draft testing, wound up going #22 overall and developed into one of the best WRs in the game. Unlike Jefferson, JSN missed an entire year and doesn't have the same measurables, making it more difficult for the world to grasp whether he can succeed on the outside or not. Again, it's not to say that he can't or won't, but there's no evidence of it... can say the same for AJ Brown or Elijah Moore, but again, both were far more athletic and weren't drafted until day 2. 

IMO, I think JSN is a solid first-round pick. I think he should be right there in the late-teens early-20s. I just don't see how he would fit on the Jets. What we ask from our receivers in terms of rotating spots and being able to play multiple receiver positions and perform multiple responsibilities whether it be blocking downfield or pick plays. Not sure how willing they're going to adjust the offense to accommodate to a guy like JSN 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

29 minutes ago, football guy said:

Daniel Jeremiah this morning: 

"I've heard from people that say the Colts would take Levis over Stroud if both on the board" 

If that happens, there's no clear destination for Stroud. So trying to find the similarities between this class and the 2018 class to try and make the comp to Rosen... 

• #1 Baker Mayfield --- #1 Bryce Young. Bryce is a lot better prospect IMO, but I can see some of the similarities in terms of not necessarily meeting the physical 
• #3 Sam Darnold --- #4(?) Will Levis. I think Sam is a better prospect, but I've seen some respectable scouts compare their games. Talent is there but needs refinement. 
• #7 Josh Allen --- #5-11(?) Anthony Richardson. The surface level comps are all there. There's going to be a team in the top 10 who takes him. So much talent and if he lands in the right spot could have a similar kind of impact on the league. 
• #10 Josh Rosen --- #(?) CJ Stroud. Rosen nor Stroud are "bad character" guys, but a lot of NFL people saw them as entitled and difficult to coach. There was a legit scenario in 2018 where the Jets could've taken Rosen and were comfortable doing so at #3 overall, but he wound out being the guy. Like Rosen, Stroud is a very good thrower of the football and a pure pocket QB. Also like Rosen, Stroud struggled with pressure on tape and played in a scheme that simplified his responsibilities. Rosen busted royally (I personally thought he was going to be good); it's not to say the same will happen to Stroud but I kind of get where the comp comes from in terms of style, experience leading up to the draft, and inevitable fall (if that does in fact happen for Stroud). 

Lol - Stroud went from being #1 overall to being passed by the Jets at 13. Well that's fun. 

[football guy]

53 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Lol - Stroud went from being #1 overall to being passed by the Jets at 13. Well that's fun. 

Mac Jones went from being #3 overall to falling to #15. I'm not saying this should be happening to Stroud, but crazier things have happened

[derp]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

Mac Jones went from being #3 overall to falling to #15. I'm not saying this should be happening to Stroud, but crazier things have happened

There was some dot connecting that had Jones #3 but it was really just speculation. That fall was Lawrence-Fields and then Wilson got momentum. It’s been Young-Stroud since the fall up until this week really. This would be a lot weirder.

Would be closer to the Smith-Rodgers year depending on how far he goes.

[football guy]

2 minutes ago, derp said:

There was some dot connecting that had Jones #3 but it was really just speculation. That fall was Lawrence-Fields and then Wilson got momentum. It’s been Young-Stroud since the fall up until this week really. This would be a lot weirder.

Would be closer to the Smith-Rodgers year depending on how far he goes.

Kyle Shanahan confirmed they had Mac in mind when they moved up, but wanted to see if they could find a way to get Zach (hopping from 3 to 2) and remained open to taking Lance if they came away comfortable with him after doing all the scout work. Kyle ultimately sided with the scouting department 

[derp]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Kyle Shanahan confirmed they had Mac in mind when they moved up, but wanted to see if they could find a way to get Zach (hopping from 3 to 2) and remained open to taking Lance if they came away comfortable with him after doing all the scout work. Kyle ultimately sided with the scouting department 

Think we’re looking at it from two different perspectives. There’s the team passing and then there’s the fall. Don’t think the fall for Jones was surprising.

[IntoTheGreen]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

JSN is a higher-upside Amon-Ra St. Brown IMO. That's not to say he deserves to fall to the 4th round, but he's a scheme/role-specific player who can be a playmaker in the right environment but can also be a bust if you put him in your offense and ask him to do things he's not necessarily capable of doing (or has yet to show that). It's not a criticism- it's just reality. A lot of the same was said about Justin Jefferson too, but he crushed his pre-draft testing, wound up going #22 overall and developed into one of the best WRs in the game. Unlike Jefferson, JSN missed an entire year and doesn't have the same measurables, making it more difficult for the world to grasp whether he can succeed on the outside or not. Again, it's not to say that he can't or won't, but there's no evidence of it... can say the same for AJ Brown or Elijah Moore, but again, both were far more athletic and weren't drafted until day 2. 

IMO, I think JSN is a solid first-round pick. I think he should be right there in the late-teens early-20s. I just don't see how he would fit on the Jets. What we ask from our receivers in terms of rotating spots and being able to play multiple receiver positions and perform multiple responsibilities whether it be blocking downfield or pick plays. Not sure how willing they're going to adjust the offense to accommodate to a guy like JSN 

Overall I agree with the comp and analysis, but are we sure the Jets will have the same mandatory versatility approach to WRs with Hackett as they had with MLF? This is just delvils advocate as I don't think he's a great fit for Jets needs anyway. 

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, C Mart said:

I heard Pat Kirwan yesterday ask in general “why is everyone calling in saying their team should take JSN?”  “Why?  He’s a slot guy that runs 4.5 and barely played last season”. Jim Miller then chimed in saying he doesn’t get it either.  “JSN put up great stats during ‘21 season when OSU had Wilson & Olave and opposing teams were focused on those two”. 

So you totally discount his great stats in 2001?  Comments like that always bewilder me.  He had like 1600 yards and 95 catches.

 

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

I've heard from people that say the Colts would take Levis over Stroud if both on the board" 

Thought it was interesting too that it was because ownership wants no part of Mulugheta, which would be a crazy, pretty reason

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, derp said:

Eh. Obviously tackles need to improve physically, I've got no issue with that - though I think power is power to an extent and you're not going to take a guy who needs to add strength and see him turn into a road grader.

It's more the maturity and technique stuff. The top tackle prospects are usually pretty sharp dudes, the guys who go early typically go early because teams want to play them right away so they're not that technically raw, and the Jets wouldn't have a need at tackle if the guy they took 11 overall a few years ago wasn't a 350-400 pound mountain of a question mark because of maturity issues. 

Especially if you're taking a guy who isn't already excellent, he's going to need to have pretty great character to potentially sit his rookie year, take his lumps, learn from veterans, and hit that ceiling - right? I don't know if you listened to the podcast with Schwartz and Newhouse talking about OL development but to be at a position where you're really supposed to pitch shutouts and there's a ton of technical work that needs to be done to be at your best you need to be mentally tough and work at your craft.

I think there's also a distinction between being open to taking one of these guys and being locked into taking one of these guys, if that makes sense. One thing to say hey we've got an open mind to going and grabbing one of these tackles, another to being committed to it if this is the group.

I still think fitting Skoronski takes too many if's to make sense. If the Wright stuff work ethic stuff is true, I don't know how they take him. Jones depends on what they think of the person, how committed he is and how he'd develop for a year. I'd get liking Johnson, probably a good bet to be a mid level tackle and not get you in trouble, but I presume he's off the board. So it's just hard for me to understand a commitment to taking one of these guys.

But this class also is kind of weak in general so I'm sure that plays into it.

I have that Schwartz/Newhouse pod in my queue, but I haven’t gotten to it yet. I listened to the Brugler/Brandon Thorn one and they definitely echoed what you’re saying—the tackles aren’t all-world guys and all of them need to fill out a bit. I heard Jeremiah and Schrager doing a mock today and they both agreed that Broderick Jones is probably going to be the Jets pick. My preference is to trade into the 20’s and just take Schmitz or Tippman and call it a day. If they stay at 13, though, none of the non-tackles strike me as compelling for a win-now operation. The value there will probably be at CB—and that’s the last position we need—and tackle, which we will probably very much need. 

[derp]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I have that Schwartz/Newhouse pod in my queue, but I haven’t gotten to it yet. I listened to the Brugler/Brandon Thorn one and they definitely echoed what you’re saying—the tackles aren’t all-world guys and all of them need to fill out a bit. I heard Jeremiah and Schrager doing a mock today and they both agreed that Broderick Jones is probably going to be the Jets pick. My preference is to trade into the 20’s and just take Schmitz or Tippman and call it a day. If they stay at 13, though, none of the non-tackles strike me as compelling for a win-now operation. The value there will probably be at CB—and that’s the last position we need—and tackle, which we will probably very much need. 

Yeah, I think Jones makes sense if they like the character. I tried to listen to some interviews and I can’t quite get a feel for it. I’m more comfortable with the pros and cons of nerds on the OL and he isn’t that, doesn’t mean he won’t do well though. Just harder for me to conceptualize.

I think Jones is probably the best athlete and a good scheme fit. So if they think he’s going to come in, work hard, and soak up knowledge from Duane Brown for a year he’s probably got the upside to be a big time player. I’ve got no real knowledge there, of course, and that’s where the human aspect of  this stuff is important and we don’t really know.

On that end of things Johnson makes a little more sense to me, but again it’s what I’m more familiar with. If they meshed with Jones and think they’ve got the infrastructure to develop him, I get it.

As I have said a few times, Douglas did well in the draft last year because he kept it simple. He struggled his first couple drafts because he swung for the fences. It’ll be interesting to see how he does things this year, but despite the development plan Jones strikes me as a little more the latter than the former.

And they are win now this year, but they hopefully have Rodgers next year and would have a gigantic hole at tackle, so it’d be kind of cool if they can feel good rolling into next year with Jones and Mitchell or something like that. I think it’s a little flawed but if you reach a little you can piece some stuff to get there.

I like Tippmann but one of those guys should be there at 42/43, and if not they should be able to get Ricky Stromberg or even Wypler in the fourth and they have Jones or McGovern available and Colon and Schweitzer can play center. I think you’re happy if you can get one of the centers who’s a second round caliber player in the second and if not there are several ways to soften that blow.

[SickJetFan]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

JSN is a higher-upside Amon-Ra St. Brown IMO. That's not to say he deserves to fall to the 4th round, but he's a scheme/role-specific player who can be a playmaker in the right environment but can also be a bust if you put him in your offense and ask him to do things he's not necessarily capable of doing (or has yet to show that). It's not a criticism- it's just reality. A lot of the same was said about Justin Jefferson too, but he crushed his pre-draft testing, wound up going #22 overall and developed into one of the best WRs in the game. Unlike Jefferson, JSN missed an entire year and doesn't have the same measurables, making it more difficult for the world to grasp whether he can succeed on the outside or not. Again, it's not to say that he can't or won't, but there's no evidence of it... can say the same for AJ Brown or Elijah Moore, but again, both were far more athletic and weren't drafted until day 2. 

IMO, I think JSN is a solid first-round pick. I think he should be right there in the late-teens early-20s. I just don't see how he would fit on the Jets. What we ask from our receivers in terms of rotating spots and being able to play multiple receiver positions and perform multiple responsibilities whether it be blocking downfield or pick plays. Not sure how willing they're going to adjust the offense to accommodate to a guy like JSN 

there is a new sheriff in town.  the little smurf is gone and the WR room exhaled a huge sigh of relief.  what was then doesnt necessarily mean buddy hackett will expect the same...seems a stretch in fact.

I get that it could be assumed that was edict by saleh...but I dont see that.

[football guy]

1 hour ago, IntoTheGreen said:

Overall I agree with the comp and analysis, but are we sure the Jets will have the same mandatory versatility approach to WRs with Hackett as they had with MLF? This is just delvils advocate as I don't think he's a great fit for Jets needs anyway. 

Hackett is a little more flexible in terms of the route concepts/expectations and he’s more willing to put player’s in spots to succeed, but he doesn’t have any history of using receivers in “slot only” roles. If so, that player is coming off the bench as a 4th/5th receiver (see Randall Cobb who he used outside 25% vs 75% in the slot in a limited role). He likes rotating who plays in the slot among the “big” Z receiver (Allen Lazard), the more traditional “speedy” Z (Mecole Hardman), and the F-TE (Tyler Conklin). He’ll occasionally move his X inside as well. Again, it’s not to say JSN can’t do it, but he hasn’t shown that he can and to make matters worse he doesn’t have the physical profile/measureables that indicate he can be a big-bodied blocking receiver or a player who wins on speed in space whether it’s downfield, in motion, or on jet sweeps. 

30 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Thought it was interesting too that it was because ownership wants no part of Mulugheta, which would be a crazy, pretty reason

I honestly think the opposite of this. I don’t know Mulugheta personally so I can’t comment on he the person, but he has a reputation of being cancerous among teams. Every big name client he’s ever had one time or another has demanded a trade. When they don’t get their way, he takes the toxic route often accusing organizations of fowl play, going as far as to race-bait. I’m sure some of his players stand up to him (see Tee Higgins, who put a stop to Mulugheta when he was leaking trade rumors), but as an organization, you have to be worried about Mulugheta. You’re not drafting a QB #2 thinking he’s going to leave in 5 years—you’re hoping he’s there for 10+—so that headache has to be part of the equation. There were a lot of reasons why Justin Fields fell but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if this was a factor in that decision as well. When your first-QB client is awarded one of the richest contracts in NFL history from the team who drafted him without any pushback from the team, then demands a trade 6 months later and drags the organization through the mud for the next year while also accusing ownership of being racists, it’s not going to reflect well on the agent—especially when everyone knows the agent is driving that train. 

Some teams will pinch their nose and look the other way when a player has a difficult agent at another position (see us with Revis). But QB? That becomes a problem 

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, derp said:

Yeah, I think Jones makes sense if they like the character. I tried to listen to some interviews and I can’t quite get a feel for it. I’m more comfortable with the pros and cons of nerds on the OL and he isn’t that, doesn’t mean he won’t do well though. Just harder for me to conceptualize.

I think Jones is probably the best athlete and a good scheme fit. So if they think he’s going to come in, work hard, and soak up knowledge from Duane Brown for a year he’s probably got the upside to be a big time player. I’ve got no real knowledge there, of course, and that’s where the human aspect of  this stuff is important and we don’t really know.

On that end of things Johnson makes a little more sense to me, but again it’s what I’m more familiar with. If they meshed with Jones and think they’ve got the infrastructure to develop him, I get it.

As I have said a few times, Douglas did well in the draft last year because he kept it simple. He struggled his first couple drafts because he swung for the fences. It’ll be interesting to see how he does things this year, but despite the development plan Jones strikes me as a little more the latter than the former.

And they are win now this year, but they hopefully have Rodgers next year and would have a gigantic hole at tackle, so it’d be kind of cool if they can feel good rolling into next year with Jones and Mitchell or something like that. I think it’s a little flawed but if you reach a little you can piece some stuff to get there.

I like Tippmann but one of those guys should be there at 42/43, and if not they should be able to get Ricky Stromberg or even Wypler in the fourth and they have Jones or McGovern available and Colon and Schweitzer can play center. I think you’re happy if you can get one of the centers who’s a second round caliber player in the second and if not there are several ways to soften that blow.

Yeah, in the scenario where someone comes up for JSN or whoever and we go to 25, it’s YOLO time, and drafting the OC1 gives you a legitimately transformative ten year starter who plays every snap. I get that you can get those guys later, but if the Jets love one of them, screw it, lock it up. Especially if you presumably secure additional Day Two picks in the trade down. I think of all the free runners McGovern allowed on basic stunts last year and I get the shakes. 

[chirorob]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Hackett is a little more flexible in terms of the route concepts/expectations and he’s more willing to put player’s in spots to succeed, but he doesn’t have any history of using receivers in “slot only” roles. If so, that player is coming off the bench as a 4th/5th receiver (see Randall Cobb who he used outside 25% vs 75% in the slot in a limited role). He likes rotating who plays in the slot among the “big” Z receiver (Allen Lazard), the more traditional “speedy” Z (Mecole Hardman), and the F-TE (Tyler Conklin). He’ll occasionally move his X inside as well. Again, it’s not to say JSN can’t do it, but he hasn’t shown that he can and to make matters worse he doesn’t have the physical profile/measureables that indicate he can be a big-bodied blocking receiver or a player who wins on speed in space whether it’s downfield, in motion, or on jet sweeps. 

I honestly think the opposite of this. I don’t know Mulugheta personally so I can’t comment on he the person, but he has a reputation of being cancerous among teams. Every big name client he’s ever had one time or another has demanded a trade. When they don’t get their way, he takes the toxic route often accusing organizations of fowl play, going as far as to race-bait. I’m sure some of his players stand up to him (see Tee Higgins, who put a stop to Mulugheta when he was leaking trade rumors), but as an organization, you have to be worried about Mulugheta. You’re not drafting a QB #2 thinking he’s going to leave in 5 years—you’re hoping he’s there for 10+—so that headache has to be part of the equation. There were a lot of reasons why Justin Fields fell but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if this was a factor in that decision as well. When your first-QB client is awarded one of the richest contracts in NFL history from the team who drafted him without any pushback from the team, then demands a trade 6 months later and drags the organization through the mud for the next year while also accusing ownership of being racists, it’s not going to reflect well on the agent—especially when everyone knows the agent is driving that train. 

Some teams will pinch their nose and look the other way when a player has a difficult agent at another position (see us with Revis). But QB? That becomes a problem 

So, I looked up his client list, Jordan Love is on there, which is just interesting.

[SickJetFan]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

Hackett is a little more flexible in terms of the route concepts/expectations and he’s more willing to put player’s in spots to succeed, but he doesn’t have any history of using receivers in “slot only” roles. If so, that player is coming off the bench as a 4th/5th receiver (see Randall Cobb who he used outside 25% vs 75% in the slot in a limited role). He likes rotating who plays in the slot among the “big” Z receiver (Allen Lazard), the more traditional “speedy” Z (Mecole Hardman), and the F-TE (Tyler Conklin). He’ll occasionally move his X inside as well. Again, it’s not to say JSN can’t do it, but he hasn’t shown that he can and to make matters worse he doesn’t have the physical profile/measureables that indicate he can be a big-bodied blocking receiver or a player who wins on speed in space whether it’s downfield, in motion, or on jet sweeps. 

I honestly think the opposite of this. I don’t know Mulugheta personally so I can’t comment on he the person, but he has a reputation of being cancerous among teams. Every big name client he’s ever had one time or another has demanded a trade. When they don’t get their way, he takes the toxic route often accusing organizations of fowl play, going as far as to race-bait. I’m sure some of his players stand up to him (see Tee Higgins, who put a stop to Mulugheta when he was leaking trade rumors), but as an organization, you have to be worried about Mulugheta. You’re not drafting a QB #2 thinking he’s going to leave in 5 years—you’re hoping he’s there for 10+—so that headache has to be part of the equation. There were a lot of reasons why Justin Fields fell but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if this was a factor in that decision as well. When your first-QB client is awarded one of the richest contracts in NFL history from the team who drafted him without any pushback from the team, then demands a trade 6 months later and drags the organization through the mud for the next year while also accusing ownership of being racists, it’s not going to reflect well on the agent—especially when everyone knows the agent is driving that train. 

Some teams will pinch their nose and look the other way when a player has a difficult agent at another position (see us with Revis). But QB? That becomes a problem 

 in that 2021 season not only did JSN end up with more yards that than GW and Olive but he played in below game where the other 2 did not play and racked up 300+ yard game alone

now who knows if what he has will translate to NFL but same could be said about the OLs too.

[derp]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, in the scenario where someone comes up for JSN or whoever and we go to 25, it’s YOLO time, and drafting the OC1 gives you a legitimately transformative ten year starter who plays every snap. I get that you can get those guys later, but if the Jets love one of them, screw it, lock it up. Especially if you presumably secure additional Day Two picks in the trade down. I think of all the free runners McGovern allowed on basic stunts last year and I get the shakes. 

I’m honestly not entirely sure one of those tackles isn’t there at 25 or whatever.

This is Joe Douglas, too. He’s aggressive. Two scenarios I’d be curious about (they’d need to trade for Rodgers with 2024 and 2025 picks). The first I stole from Barnwell’s article, second is my crazy brain.

Acquire 8 and 75 (1615) from Atlanta for 13 and 43 (1620). Maybe the Falcons throw in 224 or 225 (1) for good measure. Falcons can go defense or potentially target Robinson a little later. Get ahead of Chicago for the safest tackle in the draft (Johnson), acquire a third round pick to target Wypler if there’s not a center at 42/43. Otherwise something up the middle of the defense or something along those lines.

Take Smith-Njigba at 13 after telegraphing a tackle. Need more weapons short (OBJ interest) and long term, WR has been really safe lately, OSU WR’s are extremely well coached, Smith-Njigba separates and can catch which is what you want, and Wilson has been extremely complimentary of him. Acquire 22 and 86 (940) from Baltimore for 42 and 43 (950). Maybe the Ravens throw in 199 (10.2). Baltimore often trades down and doesn’t have a second round pick. Target any of the top tackles falling or Anton Harrison. Still get a developmental tackle - imagine if it’s Jones - but got a weapon too. Same idea as the other scenario with the third round pick, maybe linebacker if Wypler is gone and Stromberg in the fourth and/or a veteran. If they didn’t want to pick up an additional pick and didn’t go tackle at 13, 42 and 43 could get them as high as 17.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Hackett is a little more flexible in terms of the route concepts/expectations and he’s more willing to put player’s in spots to succeed, but he doesn’t have any history of using receivers in “slot only” roles. If so, that player is coming off the bench as a 4th/5th receiver (see Randall Cobb who he used outside 25% vs 75% in the slot in a limited role). He likes rotating who plays in the slot among the “big” Z receiver (Allen Lazard), the more traditional “speedy” Z (Mecole Hardman), and the F-TE (Tyler Conklin). He’ll occasionally move his X inside as well. Again, it’s not to say JSN can’t do it, but he hasn’t shown that he can and to make matters worse he doesn’t have the physical profile/measureables that indicate he can be a big-bodied blocking receiver or a player who wins on speed in space whether it’s downfield, in motion, or on jet sweeps. 

I honestly think the opposite of this. I don’t know Mulugheta personally so I can’t comment on he the person, but he has a reputation of being cancerous among teams. Every big name client he’s ever had one time or another has demanded a trade. When they don’t get their way, he takes the toxic route often accusing organizations of fowl play, going as far as to race-bait. I’m sure some of his players stand up to him (see Tee Higgins, who put a stop to Mulugheta when he was leaking trade rumors), but as an organization, you have to be worried about Mulugheta. You’re not drafting a QB #2 thinking he’s going to leave in 5 years—you’re hoping he’s there for 10+—so that headache has to be part of the equation. There were a lot of reasons why Justin Fields fell but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if this was a factor in that decision as well. When your first-QB client is awarded one of the richest contracts in NFL history from the team who drafted him without any pushback from the team, then demands a trade 6 months later and drags the organization through the mud for the next year while also accusing ownership of being racists, it’s not going to reflect well on the agent—especially when everyone knows the agent is driving that train. 

Some teams will pinch their nose and look the other way when a player has a difficult agent at another position (see us with Revis). But QB? That becomes a problem 

This whole Brady Quinn drama is because Muguletta is stirring the pot. Ryan Clark and RG3 are perhaps the worst and most cancerous talking heads on twitter/TV. His clients tend to be total jackasses.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

This whole Brady Quinn drama is because Muguletta is stirring the pot. Ryan Clark and RG3 are perhaps the worst and most cancerous talking heads on twitter/TV. His clients tend to be total jackasses.

Ryan Clark is the quintessential ESPN personality.

[maury77]

This is a good video on Jones and it echoes a lot of what I saw on tape. He looks like a well-built power forward out there with his impressive size and speed. Pretty good size and length but his technique is very rough and I don't know how much the Jets are going to get out of him year 1. 

 

 

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, derp said:

I’m honestly not entirely sure one of those tackles isn’t there at 25 or whatever.

This is Joe Douglas, too. He’s aggressive. Two scenarios I’d be curious about (they’d need to trade for Rodgers with 2024 and 2025 picks). The first I stole from Barnwell’s article, second is my crazy brain.

Acquire 8 and 75 (1615) from Atlanta for 13 and 43 (1620). Maybe the Falcons throw in 224 or 225 (1) for good measure. Falcons can go defense or potentially target Robinson a little later. Get ahead of Chicago for the safest tackle in the draft (Johnson), acquire a third round pick to target Wypler if there’s not a center at 42/43. Otherwise something up the middle of the defense or something along those lines.

Take Smith-Njigba at 13 after telegraphing a tackle. Need more weapons short (OBJ interest) and long term, WR has been really safe lately, OSU WR’s are extremely well coached, Smith-Njigba separates and can catch which is what you want, and Wilson has been extremely complimentary of him. Acquire 22 and 86 (940) from Baltimore for 42 and 43 (950). Maybe the Ravens throw in 199 (10.2). Baltimore often trades down and doesn’t have a second round pick. Target any of the top tackles falling or Anton Harrison. Still get a developmental tackle - imagine if it’s Jones - but got a weapon too. Same idea as the other scenario with the third round pick, maybe linebacker if Wypler is gone and Stromberg in the fourth and/or a veteran. If they didn’t want to pick up an additional pick and didn’t go tackle at 13, 42 and 43 could get them as high as 17.

I like and endorse all these ideas. 

[T0mShane]

Really sounds like Richardson could be available in the 9-12 range at this point. 
 

Wingo another guy hearing that Richardson is now QB5. Pallazollo (PFF guy) previously said he’s heard from people in the league that the problem with Richardson is you’d have to devote a lot of resources toward teaching him fundamental aspects of the QB position while also designing an offense specifically tailored to maximize his skillset, which is too much of a project for the NFL level. Richardson really should have jumped in the portal and gone to play for Ole Miss. 

 

[Matt39]

QUARTERBACKS

1. BRYCE YOUNG, Alabama (5-10, 204, no 40, 1): Backed up in 2020 as a true freshman before winning the Heisman Trophy in ’21. “He brought them from behind against Texas A&M,” one scout said, recounting the key moments of Alabama’s 2022 season. “Against Tennessee, he brought them from behind but they lost on a field goal and he didn’t get a second chance. In the LSU game, he brought them from behind in overtime and LSU made a 2-point conversion. In those three games, with the game on the line, he had great fourth quarters. He’s just a winner. Makes great decisions. Got a good, strong arm. Reminds me of Russell Wilson (5-10 ½, 204). He’s not as good an athlete as Kyler Murray (5-10, 207) but I think he’s a better person and has better focus.” Compiled an NFL passer rating of 118.3 in 2021 and 114.9 in ’22 for a career mark of 116.4. Also ran for 162 yards and seven touchdowns. “What I love about him is how calm and cool he is under pressure,” said a second scout. “The size will always be a problem with me but his composure, competitiveness and ability to win is real.” Showed up at the combine noticeably puffed-up (some theorize he altered his dietary regimen before drinking an excessive amount of water) and weighed 204. Declined to step on the scale at pro day. According to one scout, he was 169 in January 2022 when the Crimson Tide beat Georgia in the BCS title game. Several scouts expect him to play at about 190 in the coming season. “He’s the biggest outlier in the history of the position,” said a third scout. “He looked like a pregnant lady at the weigh-in. I would say he’s 5-10, 180. I thought about Fran Tarkenton (5-11, 185). If it was sprinter football, he would be the first pick 100 times in a row. But NFL football … They say he only got hurt one time at Bama, but it took him a month to get over it (sprained right A/C joint) even though he missed just one game. He wasn’t the same guy for a month. I may be proven completely wrong but I would be scared to death to take him.” Scored 30 on the Wonderlic test. “He did get his shoulder dinged this year, which scares you,” said a fourth scout. “He could land on that shoulder and that could be it. But I think he has good pocket awareness. I don’t think he’s more likely to get hurt than some of these other guys.” Hands measured 9 ¾ inches. “He breaks the mold of what I look for,” a fifth scout said. “It’s hard for me to live with that size. I see it in Tua (Tagovailoa), but what has he done? Wilson was bigger and stronger. This kid’s got enough arm but he’s not as well built as you’d like. He looks like a high-school kid.” From Pasadena, Calif.

2. C.J. STROUD, Ohio State (6-3, 213, no 40, 1): Third-year sophomore. “Best passer of the entire draft,” said one scout. “He is athletically gifted, as he showed in the University of Georgia (national title) game. He can extend a play with his feet. He’s pretty cool under pressure, but I know he had a gifted offensive line in front of him. He still has a lot of football to learn. I really like the kid, too, but he scares the f--k out of me. It’s the processing skills of coverages.” Passed for 348 yards and four touchdowns without an interception while rushing for 71 yards against Georgia in possibly the finest performance of his career. His record against archrival Michigan was 0-2 after the Buckeyes had owned the series for 15-plus years. “That system is so quarterback-friendly,” said a second scout. “There’s 15 linemen in this draft and he had three of them, and he’s got pro receivers running around all over the place and they can’t win a big game. Is he a pretty thrower? Sure. But he’s never sat in a cockpit where you’re in full-scale chaos.” His career passer rating was 128.7. Also ran for 136 yards and just one TD.  “He has really good accuracy and touch, especially to his initial read downfield,” a third scout said. “Aside from Bryce’s game against Tennessee, he had the best moment of the quarterbacks in the Georgia game. I was a little skeptical of his ability to create with his feet and extend drives. Now he’s probably surrounded by the best talent of any of those guys. Those receivers he had were special, but that’s not his fault. He and Levis were on a similar level for me. Levis is maybe more built for that heavy play-action, deep-boot shots. C.J. is a little more natural in the pocket as a dropback passer right now.” Wonderlic of 19. Hands were 10. “I don’t like bringing it up but he’s Dwayne Haskins,” a fourth scout said. “Haskins might have been better than this guy. It was the off-the-field stuff with Haskins, the work (ethic) and all that which is why no one’s making that comparison. This guy has all that off-the-field stuff. Great young man and all that. He’s very deliberate, very streaky. He can do it, but he’s really not a big-time playmaker. He’s a very quiet, introverted personality. I wasn’t blown away.” From Inland Empire, Calif.

 

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

 

I'm still betting my money that Young and Hooker will be the best of this class. Followed by Levis then AR. I think Levis will be a Derrick Carr type. Stroud scares the sh*t out of me. 

I do wish we drafted one of these guys to sit for a year or two while Rodgers does his thing. It's the perfect opportunity. 

But I'm sure they'll draft a guy in the 7th like Tommy DeVito and say, see! We're developing a guy! 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

 

I'm still betting my money that Young and Hooker will be the best of this class. Followed by Levis then AR. I think Levis will be a Derrick Carr type. Stroud scares the sh*t out of me. 

I do wish we drafted one of these guys to sit for a year or two while Rodgers does his thing. It's the perfect opportunity. 

But I'm sure they'll draft a guy in the 7th like Tommy DeVito and say, see! We're developing a guy! 

I think Young will have early flashes of looking good, but then he’ll get bounced off the turf by, like, Von Miller and we’ll never hear from him again. I think Levis is a guy that the Colts will give 50 starts to before admitting defeat. The other three will end up being backups.

[32EBoozer]

On 4/20/2023 at 1:02 PM, football guy said:

Giants assistant GM apparently spoke to a number of guys with the Jets about gauging interest in a trade up, but other than that I haven't heard about trading down.

Interesting. Outside of OT & a surprise Edge falling to us, I don’t see how the Jets would not try and trade down…. Especially if we’re looking CB, JSN, Qb, Robinson & Branch all sitting at #13. The OT are pretty safe bets in the top 10

[SickJetFan]

Another guy I really like in this draft is Sydney Brown - have not read anyone mention him

[derp]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:34 AM, Matt39 said:

1. PARIS JOHNSON, Ohio State (6-6 ½, 311, no 40, 1): Third-year junior. Hardly played in 2020, started at RG in 2021 and at LT in 2022. He replaced Nicholas Petit-Frere, a third-round pick by the Titans. “He’s a physical freak,” one scout said. “He is a great kid, too. He’s more talented than (Peter) Skoronski. Maybe not the football player that Skoronski is now but Johnson has a higher ceiling.” Extremely long arms (36 1/8 inches), small hands (9 ½). “He’s got all of the physical traits,” said a second scout. “He’s got really good character. He doesn’t have unique stopping power (compared to past leading prospects). Needs to get stronger.” His score of 26 on the Wonderlic test was the highest of the top four tackles. “He is so up and down,” a third scout said. “It’s all there but there’s no consistency. Needs to play stronger and more physical. He pushes. Soft hands. If you can get through to him he certainly has the size and long arms.” A fourth scout insisted that Petit-Frere manned the position better in 2021 than Johnson did in ’22. “I don’t see it with this guy,” a fifth scout said. “Decent athlete, nothing special. Technique is off. He falls off a lot of stuff. Just real hit or miss. Just a work in progress. Unlike (Broderick) Jones, who has tons of natural athletic ability, I see this dude as just an average sort of talent. He’s not (real tough). He's not impressive.” From Cincinnati.

BRODERICK JONES, Georgia (6-5 ½, 313, 4.94, 1): Like Johnson, he was a 5-star recruit. “Damn good athlete,” one scout said. “He’s just still raw and green. Got a lot of technical (bleep) to clean up and he doesn’t finish plays, but he’s a really good foot athlete. He’s got some bad habits. … Sisters raised him with his mom in Atlanta. He’s a good kid.” Played two games as a true freshman in 2020, filled in for injured LT Jamaree Salyer (four starts) in 2021 and started all 15 games at LT for the national champs in 2022. “This guy is ultra-athletic,” said a second scout. “But he’s raw as can be, and very inconsistent. It’s all about, when you interview him, to see what’s inside him and if he will develop. He has developmental movement and feet but his hands are all over the place. He gets caught off-guard with anticipation and vision. Falls off a lot. Looks like he has 36-inch arms (actually 34 ¾) and keeps them down by his side. C’mon. He’s just so far away. It’s all the assumption that he’s this great athlete. Someone will be disappointed.” Wonderlic of 12. “You’re taking a little bit of risk on the kid,” said a third scout. “He’s got some immaturity to him. Like a lot of these Georgia guys, a lot of talent but maybe not the greatest football character. He’s athletic and he’s strong and he shows he can be mean. It’s just are you going to get it out of him? Is he going to be a pro?” From Lithonia, Ga.

3. DARNELL WRIGHT, Tennessee (6-5 ½, 333, 5.01, 1-2): Another 5-star recruit, this time from Huntington, W.Va. “He is a talented underachiever,” said one scout. “Not great football character. You could hit on him. If he has an epiphany and becomes a pro, he’s got a sh*tload of talent.” Started 42 of 47 games over four seasons, including 27 at RT, 13 at LT and two at RG. “There’s a lot of entitlement with this kid but did he shut out (Alabama’s) Will Anderson,” another scout said. “Absolutely. If you want to like him that’s the tape you point to and say, ‘This guy’s a starting left or right tackle. Case closed.’ But when you dig into it, he’s never been much of a worker. Barely does enough to get by. Not super cooperative. Hard work is not in his vocabulary. Just does enough … But he has absolutely helped himself. Had a good Senior Bowl. Had a good combine. He’s probably been clean enough in the interviews that somebody would say, ‘Hey, we’ll work with him.’ I think he could flame out pretty quick because he’s not a worker. It might not be as easy as he thinks it’s going to be in the league.” So-so arm length (33 ¾), tiny hands (9). “Pro Bowl-caliber player,” a third scout said. “Looked a lot more comfortable on the right side. Really strong hands. Aggressive, can move people in the run game. Hard to beat in pass pro because he’s good with his set. You can’t run through him because he’s strong.” Wonderlic of 18. “He’s got character but he’s talented,” a fourth scout said. “He’s just got poor football character. Lazy, but he blocked Alabama, he blocked Georgia like it was nothing.”

 

4. ANTON HARRISON, Oklahoma (6-4 ½, 316, 4.99, 1-2): Third-year junior. “Not gifted athletically but he plays with balance and has enough movement,” said one scout. “Guys that really know how to play, they’re going to make it and they last and they play well. The hand use, the punch, he’s patient, the vision. He does all that little stuff that you say, ‘Wow. This guy really knows how to play.’ Not elite with his feet and movement and athletic ability, but good enough in all those areas.” Backup in 2020 before starting 24 games at LT in 2021-’22. “It might take him a year or two but the ceiling is very high for him,” a second scout said. “Maybe he hasn’t played up to his talent level but I would be optimistic he’ll get there. The character’s fine. The work ethic? Same. It’s certainly not ideal. I think he’s relied upon his athleticism and gotten away with that.” Arms were 34 1/8, hands were small (9 ¼). Wonderlic of 19. “He’s not a consistent finisher and his technique can be a little inconsistent,” said a third scout. “But he’s got good feet and quick hands. Plays a little bit high sometimes.” From Washington. “Do you see the foot agility? Sure, but that is it,” a fourth scout said. “I thought he was just underdeveloped … ordinary. Is he a get-in-the-way pass protector? Yes, against lousy rushers in the Big 12. I think when he’s playing real bonafide NFL football he’s going to struggle big time if he’s put on that field this year. He’s a little bit undersized for tackle. He’s not powerful enough to play on the right side. I would be leery of him.”

5. MATT BERGERON, Syracuse (6-5, 317, no 40, 1-2): From Victoriaville, Quebec (Canada). “Mentally, he could play all five spots,” one scout said. “He’s an acquired taste, though. Pretty good athlete. Probably better moving inside but he could play tackle in a pinch.” Started five games at RT in 2019 as a true freshman before moving to LT in 2020-’22. “He’s a starter Year 1,” said a second scout. “Really nice feet, really good athlete. He’s got the girth and is square enough to play guard but he’s also got enough length (33 ¾ arms) to play out there on the edge with his feet. He goes in the top 50 and he starts next year.” His Wonderlic score of 27 paced the top 10 tackles. “I think he’s an All-Pro guard in the making,” said a third scout. “He’s got unbelievable prick in him. He has more upside than (Peter) Skoronski.” A 3-star recruit. “He just doesn’t play strong at all,” a fourth scout said. “The lack of length kind of shows up. He doesn’t sustain any blocks. In pass pro you can tell he has decent feet but just not a nimble, quick-footed guy. Misses his punch way too much, which is when his short arms show up. If you move him to guard I don’t know if he’s got the grit in there. You can see he has some ability but a disappointing player. Fourth round for me.”

6. DAWAND JONES, Ohio State (6-8, 374, 5.36, 2): Biggest man in the draft. “He’s so enormous and I love watching him play,” one scout said.  “I was scouting the other guy, Paris Johnson, but I couldn’t take my eyes off Dawand. Some absolutely love him and some think he’s absolutely no good. It’s a strange thing. He does have some character issues.” Started just one of 15 games from 2019-’20 before starting 25 games at RT from 2021-’22. “He has just dominating strength,” a second scout said. “He’s a big guy that actually plays big. His bend for his size is amazing. He’s got great feet. He’s crazy long. His hand use is really good. He’s light on his feet. His punch is ridiculous. He’s really similar to the best Mekhi Becton played in college (at Louisville) but he’s more dominant. You can see the basketball player in him.” Fielded mid-level Division I basketball offers after a top-notch career on the court for Ben Davis High School in Indianapolis. “I think he likes basketball more than he likes football,” said a third scout. “I don’t know if he really likes football.” Arms (36 3/8) and hands (11 5/8) were the longest at the combine. His Wonderlic score of 11 was the lowest of the top 12 tackles. “He just wins with his size,” said a fourth scout. “He does stay on his feet for the most part but reaching guys, adjusting, space, slide, all that, he just struggles to do that. How much of that will transfer? Zach Banner was so big and had those limitations, too, and he just kind of bounced around.” Made a terrible post-Day 1 impression at the Senior Bowl and then at pro day. His weight of 374 at the combine didn’t thrill scouts, either. “He was listed at 359 (in the fall),” a fifth scout said. “That (374) scares me. When a guy gains weight before the combine that shows you how much pride he has. Next thing you know he’s going to be 400.”

Good context for these because I was curious.

“Starting RT in 2007-'08 and LT in '09. Even played some center when injuries struck. "He's the most talented tackle in this draft," one scout said. "You don't see (laziness) on film. He's just a talented kid that does everything easy. He's got great feet." Compared by one scout to Andre Smith from the '09 draft. "I don't trust him all the time," another scout said. "He shows up for games but he's not a big practice player." His idol is former Seattle all-pro LT Walter Jones. "He's a great talent but I just can't warm up to who he is," a third scout said. "He could (bust) based on his past history and his work ethic. I think he's going to be a nightmare to manage and get him to keep working."”

That’s from the McGinn piece regarding Trent Williams, who’s got to be the best LT in the league.

That said, here’s some more from McGinn on this 2023 class:

““This is the worst offensive-line crowd in the history of the draft — maybe,” a long-in-the-tooth NFL personnel executive. “We have like 15 guys in our top 150. For an entire 32-team league. We need 320 linemen.

“It’s so bad,” he continued. “There’s going to be some reaches on offensive linemen in this draft. I think every lineman in the top 100 overall will go a half-round to a full round, if not two rounds, higher than they normally would in a given year.”

Six years ago, talent evaluators also foresaw a terrible draft for offensive linemen. That year, however, teams didn’t even bite. Just 10 were taken among the top 100 selections, a far cry from the five-year average of 19.4 in the top 100 from 2018-’22.

As might have been predicted, just one of the 33 offensive linemen drafted in 2017 has made a Pro Bowl. That was Bills left tackle Dion Dawkins, a 2021 selection who was the 63rd player chosen in 2017. Right tackle Ryan Ramczyk of New Orleans, the No. 32 pick that year, has made All-Pro but, oddly, never the Pro Bowl.

The deficiencies in this class exist at the top, in the middle and probably near the end.

“In years past there have been more clear-cut (elite linemen),” an executive in personnel for an AFC team said. “Charles Cross would still be the top guy in this draft by head and shoulders. There’s guys with traits. Paris Johnson has those kind of traits so it wouldn’t surprise me if people took him at pick 9 or 10 but the film isn’t as clean as some of those other guys that have gone that high. A lot of these guys don’t feel as clean as what you feel like a first-round O-lineman is.”

Cross, a third-year sophomore out of Mississippi State, was selected No. 9 by Seattle a year ago. He went off shortly after Ikem Ekwonu was picked by Carolina at No. 6 and Evan Neal went to the New York Giants at No. 7.“

Some of this seems like an exaggeration and I know there are differing opinions here about this class. That said, I think I agree that this class doesn’t seem as clean at the top as past years and that Cross would’ve been far and away the top tackle in this class from my perspective. Granted, I really liked him a lot. But it’s nice to reinforce that - whether or not it’s accurate - the idea that this is a pretty weak tackle group isn’t completely off the wall.

Think this draft class on the whole is weak in general, but it definitely extends to the OL group. Starting to almost feel a little like the 2013 class. Probably not quite that bad, but it’s pretty ugly.

[Lith]

30 minutes ago, derp said:

Good context for these because I was curious.

“Starting RT in 2007-'08 and LT in '09. Even played some center when injuries struck. "He's the most talented tackle in this draft," one scout said. "You don't see (laziness) on film. He's just a talented kid that does everything easy. He's got great feet." Compared by one scout to Andre Smith from the '09 draft. "I don't trust him all the time," another scout said. "He shows up for games but he's not a big practice player." His idol is former Seattle all-pro LT Walter Jones. "He's a great talent but I just can't warm up to who he is," a third scout said. "He could (bust) based on his past history and his work ethic. I think he's going to be a nightmare to manage and get him to keep working."”

That’s from the McGinn piece regarding Trent Williams, who’s got to be the best LT in the league.

That said, here’s some more from McGinn on this 2023 class:

““This is the worst offensive-line crowd in the history of the draft — maybe,” a long-in-the-tooth NFL personnel executive. “We have like 15 guys in our top 150. For an entire 32-team league. We need 320 linemen.

“It’s so bad,” he continued. “There’s going to be some reaches on offensive linemen in this draft. I think every lineman in the top 100 overall will go a half-round to a full round, if not two rounds, higher than they normally would in a given year.”

Six years ago, talent evaluators also foresaw a terrible draft for offensive linemen. That year, however, teams didn’t even bite. Just 10 were taken among the top 100 selections, a far cry from the five-year average of 19.4 in the top 100 from 2018-’22.

As might have been predicted, just one of the 33 offensive linemen drafted in 2017 has made a Pro Bowl. That was Bills left tackle Dion Dawkins, a 2021 selection who was the 63rd player chosen in 2017. Right tackle Ryan Ramczyk of New Orleans, the No. 32 pick that year, has made All-Pro but, oddly, never the Pro Bowl.

The deficiencies in this class exist at the top, in the middle and probably near the end.

“In years past there have been more clear-cut (elite linemen),” an executive in personnel for an AFC team said. “Charles Cross would still be the top guy in this draft by head and shoulders. There’s guys with traits. Paris Johnson has those kind of traits so it wouldn’t surprise me if people took him at pick 9 or 10 but the film isn’t as clean as some of those other guys that have gone that high. A lot of these guys don’t feel as clean as what you feel like a first-round O-lineman is.”

Cross, a third-year sophomore out of Mississippi State, was selected No. 9 by Seattle a year ago. He went off shortly after Ikem Ekwonu was picked by Carolina at No. 6 and Evan Neal went to the New York Giants at No. 7.“

Some of this seems like an exaggeration and I know there are differing opinions here about this class. That said, I think I agree that this class doesn’t seem as clean at the top as past years and that Cross would’ve been far and away the top tackle in this class from my perspective. Granted, I really liked him a lot. But it’s nice to reinforce that - whether or not it’s accurate - the idea that this is a pretty weak tackle group isn’t completely off the wall.

Think this draft class on the whole is weak in general, but it definitely extends to the OL group. Starting to almost feel a little like the 2013 class. Probably not quite that bad, but it’s pretty ugly.

I read comments like this and similar about the OT class.  And then I think about the WRs, JSN may be a nice pick, but he missed most of the season with a hamstring injury, and those often recur.  Jordan Addison could be a nice pick, but at 13?  We are 5 days from the draft, and there really is nobody that I see at 13 that I think we have to have. 

At this point, if the likely trade is day 2 picks this year and next year, I would rather just send 13 to GB.  Keep all of our day 2, day 3 picks this year and all of next year's picks and be done with it.  I don't expect it to happen, but I would prefer to keep all of our premium draft capital in 24 given the apparent weakness of this class.