General Draft/Prospect news

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

@Lith can we move this to the main board since it’s draft week?

There are plenty of draft threads on the main board.  I like this one where it is.

[kdels62]

Paris Johnson checks every box, except performance. I’m hoping we’re looking at smoke screen here. He’s a good prospect and I can see an argument for resetting the teams OT salary situation but that player is barely a first rounder on the field.

[football guy]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Paris Johnson checks every box, except performance. I’m hoping we’re looking at smoke screen here. He’s a good prospect and I can see an argument for resetting the teams OT salary situation but that player is barely a first rounder on the field.

Fringe first rounder is an aggressive take imo. He’s a top 20 pick in most drafts. He needs some refinement but the argument for PJ is that he has all the tools, incredible character, and showed improvement with technique as the year went on which is no easy feat. Have to also consider he went from RG to LT. Teams are banking in the talent/person and trusting he’s going to put in the work to tidy things up 

[derp]

I think you two are saying similar things and framing them differently.

[football guy]

31 minutes ago, derp said:

I think you two are saying similar things and framing them differently.

Dude was a consensus All-American. I agree with kdels but calling him a fringe 1st round player on the field misses the mark

[T0mShane]

19 hours ago, football guy said:

Should also add: lots of smoke that HOU is trying to land #3. People at CAA are leaking that they are taking Levis. If that’s truly the case it would allow them to grab their top graded DL + the QB

 

[derp]

15 minutes ago, football guy said:

Dude was a consensus All-American. I agree with kdels but calling him a fringe 1st round player on the field misses the mark

I realize it sounds bad in the context but a first round player on film is a good player. He used barely, but barely is in the first.

I think the three of us probably generally agree that:

-He’s ranked as a mid first round player in this class

-This class has half a round worth of first round caliber players

-His tools and character are the biggest selling points in his evaluation 

-He was not a bad player on the field 

I can see how either of you would get to your positions from there.

[kdels62]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

Fringe first rounder is an aggressive take imo. He’s a top 20 pick in most drafts. He needs some refinement but the argument for PJ is that he has all the tools, incredible character, and showed improvement with technique as the year went on which is no easy feat. Have to also consider he went from RG to LT. Teams are banking in the talent/person and trusting he’s going to put in the work to tidy things up 

I love Paris Johnson when he gives interviews. He’s gonna be head of the players union one day, and just generally it’s cool when there’s a guy with that much character and intelligence anywhere. However, his tape isn’t close to where you want for that high of a draft pick. I think Jones is just as much of a project and I prefer Johnson to Jones (I prefer Wright over either). The point is that Johnson is a lesser prospect than any “high end” OT going back to Becton’s class. That’s why I have issue with him being drafted at 13 because each draft can’t be made in a vacuum. 

Last year:

Cross

Neal

Ekwonu

2021:

Sewell

Slater

2020:

Wirfs

Wills

Becton

Thomas

*side note* I can’t believe Austin Jackson got drafted in the first.

All better prospects than Johnson purely based on performance. Johnson in any of those drafts goes in the 20s.  Convincing ourselves that Johnson is must have at 13 is bad process especially in this shallow of a draft.

[win4ever]

I feel like I have draft ED at this point, I just can't get excited for some reason.  Usually the week of the draft is me dodging as much work as possible, looking at All-22 film, and taking extra BP meds so I don't die screaming at the TV when "my guy" is passed over.  But this year, I'm like meh.  

Honestly, I feel like this is the draft I want to trade down and pick up some picks for next year.  The value part of the draft, where talent vs. risk is good, seems to be in the second to third round.  

 

[kdels62]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

I feel like I have draft ED at this point, I just can't get excited for some reason.  Usually the week of the draft is me dodging as much work as possible, looking at All-22 film, and taking extra BP meds so I don't die screaming at the TV when "my guy" is passed over.  But this year, I'm like meh.  

Honestly, I feel like this is the draft I want to trade down and pick up some picks for next year.  The value part of the draft, where talent vs. risk is good, seems to be in the second to third round.  

 

It’s a combo of Aaron Rodgers and the weak draft class.

[Guilhermezmc]

Im with @kdels62 don't see the first ground grade in Paris Johnson. Only Olinemans with a 1st for me is Skoronski and Torrance. Why is this draft class so bad lol

[football guy]

3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I love Paris Johnson when he gives interviews. He’s gonna be head of the players union one day, and just generally it’s cool when there’s a guy with that much character and intelligence anywhere. However, his tape isn’t close to where you want for that high of a draft pick. I think Jones is just as much of a project and I prefer Johnson to Jones (I prefer Wright over either). The point is that Johnson is a lesser prospect than any “high end” OT going back to Becton’s class. That’s why I have issue with him being drafted at 13 because each draft can’t be made in a vacuum. 

Last year:

Cross

Neal

Ekwonu

2021:

Sewell

Slater

2020:

Wirfs

Wills

Becton

Thomas

*side note* I can’t believe Austin Jackson got drafted in the first.

All better prospects than Johnson purely based on performance. Johnson in any of those drafts goes in the 20s.  Convincing ourselves that Johnson is must have at 13 is bad process especially in this shallow of a draft.

Just me but I think PJ had much better tape than Becton and Cross. Both had insane traits but what they did on the field was so so

[football guy]

7 hours ago, derp said:

I realize it sounds bad in the context but a first round player on film is a good player. He used barely, but barely is in the first.

I think the three of us probably generally agree that:

-He’s ranked as a mid first round player in this class

-This class has half a round worth of first round caliber players

-His tools and character are the biggest selling points in his evaluation 

-He was not a bad player on the field 

I can see how either of you would get to your positions from there.

Ironically I think he’s the same level as Taylor Decker. At 13 I’ll take that any day of the week and twice on Sundays but that’s just me

[kdels62]

7 hours ago, football guy said:

Just me but I think PJ had much better tape than Becton and Cross. Both had insane traits but what they did on the field was so so

Charles Cross was awesome his last year in school. Like i thought he’d come in and be immediately better than Ekwonu or Neal. That bore out. Paris Johnson’s lack of strength in pass pro has to worry someone who gets paid for this.

[derp]

31 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Charles Cross was awesome his last year in school. Like i thought he’d come in and be immediately better than Ekwonu or Neal. That bore out. Paris Johnson’s lack of strength in pass pro has to worry someone who gets paid for this.

Cross was my favorite in that class too. For me it’s pass pro first, run blocking plus pass pro is where guys are just elite. Run blocking and shaky pass pro is more high risk to me.

Not talking about anyone in this class, just generally what I look for. Same idea as safety - give me a guy who can cover over a hitter. Defensive line - pass rush over run stuffing. Impacting the passing game is just at a premium across the board.

[YankeeJet22]

Every time I like someone at 13, I read something about that guy that makes me think “not at 13”. I now want to absolutely trade down.  Hopefully JD gets calls, and pulls the trigger. 

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Cross was my favorite in that class too. For me it’s pass pro first, run blocking plus pass pro is where guys are just elite. Run blocking and shaky pass pro is more high risk to me.

Not talking about anyone in this class, just generally what I look for. Same idea as safety - give me a guy who can cover over a hitter. Defensive line - pass rush over run stuffing. Impacting the passing game is just at a premium across the board.

Cross was a technician with an instant understanding of how to counter pass rushers. Honestly, Paris Johnson’s tape reminds me of Abraham Lucas in the sense that immense talent masked technical deficiencies. The difference was that Lucas was an older player while PJ has so much growth ahead of him. 

If Johnson is the pick I don’t foresee him beating out a healthy Becton, Brown or Mitchell on day 1. He does give flexibility  to the front office, who should pick up Becton’s option and have a hugely valuable and tradable asset at a discount price.

[derp]

Just now, kdels62 said:

Cross was a technician with an instant understanding of how to counter pass rushers. Honestly, Paris Johnson’s tape reminds me of Abraham Lucas in the sense that immense talent masked technical deficiencies. The difference was that Lucas was an older player while PJ has so much growth ahead of him. 

If Johnson is the pick I don’t foresee him beating out a healthy Becton, Brown or Mitchell on day 1. He does give flexibility  to the front office, who should pick up Becton’s option and have a hugely valuable and tradable asset at a discount price.

If they are completely locked in on tackle in this class, I think it's very much drafting for an extremely specific need instead of trying to identify the best premium position player they could use who will be available at 13. To me, given the group of pass rushers, catchers, and blockers in this class there's no real way to be certain that of that whole group the best one is available at 13 absolutely will be a tackle.

I absolutely get the idea that it's hard to find left tackles, there will be a big hole next year, and this is a unique opportunity to let someone learn from an awesome veteran like Duane Brown for a year before plugging him in next year. So it's not like I think a tackle is just an outright terrible idea, I get the logic behind it.

But I also get the logic behind doing that at edge and having a guy when Lawson and Huff are gone or WR when it's just going to be Wilson and Lazard next season. Not to mention the OL is the only spot that you won't just get rotational snaps to develop as a rookie - you're in our you're out. To me you take the best guy at those three premium positions, not the best at the one at the position you've decided is the biggest need. But, we'll see what happens.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-rumors-cowboys-seahawks-2023/
 

I posted a tweet on Saturday stating at least one team is looking to trade up with Arizona for an offensive lineman. That lineman is Paris Johnson Jr., the left tackle from Ohio State. Some people lost their minds over the tweet, but it makes complete sense.
 

Northwestern lineman Peter Skoronski is being compared to Brandon Scherff by people I’ve spoken with- a college tackle who’ll play guard in the NFL and then go on to be a multiple Pro Bowl performer.

I was told outright that the Jets are absolutely considering Smith-Njiba with that pick. Both bits of news surprised me, yet I was able to confirm each of them.

If no offensive tackle is available to the Jets at 13, I believe they are in a perfect position to trade down. There will be several teams wanting to trade up for one of the bigger cornerbacks still available (likely Deonte Banks or Joey Porter Jr.) as well as franchises who’ll want to move up to acquire Smith-Njigba.

 

Giddy up

[SickJetFan]

JSN might just happen.

[win4ever]

20 hours ago, kdels62 said:

It’s a combo of Aaron Rodgers and the weak draft class.

I agree, the uncertainty of the draft capital is bothering me because I can't seemed to get attached to a draft spot.  Also, need to know what happens with Corey Davis as well to see if looking at WR is worth it.  I wish we could trade down, but I don't see the top tier guys falling to the point that it makes sense for a team to trade up.  Like, maybe Jalen Carter?  

[win4ever]

JSN is incredibly weird to me, because I don't think his pro-day speed shows up on film, but his film is crazy good.   I remember scouting Wilson last year, and I mistook JSN a few times for Wilson (hard to see numbers sometimes at All-22 day game angles) because his short area quickness is just ridiculous.  

Ideally, I would pick a guy like Jayden Reed/Tank Dell later in the draft, but I wouldn't cry if we picked JSN in the first.   Elite route runner, that shows exemplary knack for setting up defenders.  Already has the small nuances like head fakes, dipping his hips, and coming back to the ball.  I would have liked him much more in a Shanahan system, because I think we're going more vertical with Hackett, and his deep speed just isn't there.  I don't care what his pro-day numbers were, this kid was caught from behind quite often.  However, his ability to separate within a route is the best I've seen.  At worst, I see him as an Edleman type, with the ceiling of a Keenan Allen/Jarvis Landry.  It would definitely be a luxury pick though. 

I feel like we're more going to be on the OL train, and while I don't love this class, I feel like it can help the entire offense.  Essentially, the drop off from the top tier to the second or third tier of OL feels a lot more steep than the drop off from the top tier to the second and third tier of WR.   

[Beerfish]

14 hours ago, derp said:

Cross was my favorite in that class too. For me it’s pass pro first, run blocking plus pass pro is where guys are just elite. Run blocking and shaky pass pro is more high risk to me.

Not talking about anyone in this class, just generally what I look for. Same idea as safety - give me a guy who can cover over a hitter. Defensive line - pass rush over run stuffing. Impacting the passing game is just at a premium across the board.

I couldn't agree more with this post.

The jets have not had a really good cover/ball hawk safety in years.

They have had TONS of set the edge defenders who couldn't pass rush.

Tons of so so lineman that were not pass blocking specialties like D'Brick was.

[Beerfish]

10 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-rumors-cowboys-seahawks-2023/
 

I posted a tweet on Saturday stating at least one team is looking to trade up with Arizona for an offensive lineman. That lineman is Paris Johnson Jr., the left tackle from Ohio State. Some people lost their minds over the tweet, but it makes complete sense.
 

Northwestern lineman Peter Skoronski is being compared to Brandon Scherff by people I’ve spoken with- a college tackle who’ll play guard in the NFL and then go on to be a multiple Pro Bowl performer.

I was told outright that the Jets are absolutely considering Smith-Njiba with that pick. Both bits of news surprised me, yet I was able to confirm each of them.

If no offensive tackle is available to the Jets at 13, I believe they are in a perfect position to trade down. There will be several teams wanting to trade up for one of the bigger cornerbacks still available (likely Deonte Banks or Joey Porter Jr.) as well as franchises who’ll want to move up to acquire Smith-Njigba.

 

Giddy up

Trading up that high for an OT in this draft would be shocking to me.

I'd rather pick JSN than trade down if he is there unless we get a VERY favorable trade haul.

[T0mShane]

This might change the calculus a little bit.

 

[YankeeJet22]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This might change the calculus a little bit.

 

I’d pass on a OL at 13.  Brown and Becton to me are the starters at T. AVT and Laken the Guards.  Sign Jones after the draft at C.

Mitchell, Ogbuehi and AVT are your T depth. JD signed 2 guys for depth at OG. 
 

Drafting a C is all we need in this draft. But not in the 1st rd. 

[Augustiniak]

39 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This might change the calculus a little bit.

 

I do think he’s the preference for the jets, b/c of his versatility.  I know there’s a prevailing opinion that the jets will take their favorite OT at 13 no matter what, b/c there’s enough of them and a few should fall to 13.  I do think there are scenarios where the jets trade back if they’re not loving the OL that are there, and they have an OT plan B where they take one later on and recoup some picks.  

[section314]

9 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I do think he’s the preference for the jets, b/c of his versatility.  I know there’s a prevailing opinion that the jets will take their favorite OT at 13 no matter what, b/c there’s enough of them and a few should fall to 13.  I do think there are scenarios where the jets trade back if they’re not loving the OL that are there, and they have an OT plan B where they take one later on and recoup some picks.  

I think that Skoronski would be tough for the Eagles to pass at #10.

[derp]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This might change the calculus a little bit.

 

Maybe. If he’s actually a tackle and that works out, awesome. However:

Skoronski:

Height 6’4”

Weight 313 lbs

Wingspan 79.5”

Arm Length 32.25”

Hand Size 10”

10 Yard Split 1.75s

40 Yard Dash 5.16s

Vertical Jump 34.5”

Broad Jump 115”

3-Cone Drill 7.8s

Bench Press 30 reps 

AVT:

Height 6’4.5”

Weight 308 lbs

Arm Length 32.125”

Hand Size 9.625”

10 Yard Split 1.77s

40 Yard Dash 5.13s

Vertical Jump 32”

Broad Jump 106”

3-Cone Drill 7.7s

20 Yard Shuttle 4.63s

Bench Press 32 reps

They are so similar physically. Maybe technique is why they project him to tackle. Maybe it’s the eighth of an inch in arm length or the slightly better jumps.

We’ve seen them take a guy who projects to be a better guard than tackle - who can still play tackle - and play him at guard. Then use him as an emergency tackle, where he’s adequate, but still decide he’s most valuable as a guard.

Also, consensus seems to be that a tackle doesn’t necessarily need to play this year because of Brown/Becton/AVT/Mitchell and it’s for depth this year and long term locking up left tackle. If that’s the case, and you’re probably going to take time to develop a guy, do you want a guy who’s got upside and needs technique work or has maxed out technique to have a chance to play at tackle? Maybe they think Skoronski beats out a Brown or Becton.

It’s possible they like Skoronski at tackle. It’s a pretty big dice roll because if he isn’t as good there they’ve got no guard spot to play him. I’m skeptical. My guess? This is a “don’t bank on us passing on Skoronski, if you want him you should move ahead of us” leak.

If they do take him they’d better be really confident he can play tackle.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

I think that Skoronski would be tough for the Eagles to pass at #10.

Tough to see what they’ll do, they can simply go BAP.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I think their preferred order will be - P. Johnson, Skoronski, trade down then JSN.

[Lith]

I think that Skoronski would be tough for the Eagles to pass at #10.

The Eagles might have a lot of really nice options at 10. But a guy like Bijan Robinson might be tough to pass on. They lost Sanders to FA. Why trade for Henry if you can get a guy like Robinson locked up for 4 or 5 seasons on a rookie contract. And he will be able to contribute immediately on a win now team.

I normally would not advocate for a RB that high but for Philly it might make sense.

[maury77]

Is anyone hosting the annual Zoom room for the draft this year? I usually like hanging out with you lunatics on day 2. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

 

So that's now Cimini, Peter King and Jeremiah(who btw, mocked Jones over Paris) all pick Jones for the Jets. Where there's smoke....

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Watching NFLN right now and Ballard is so cringy. He's really lost his shine as a good GM.