Aaron Rodgers to the Jets rumor: Merged

[The Crusher]

Just now, oatmeal said:

Kyle can make QBs not throw dirt balls???? What a sage! And this is news to me!

Not my point but do you man. 

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, derp said:

To play devils advocate, they would’ve needed to lock in, have those conversations, and make promises really early in the process. Before seeing him and others throw live, meetings, that kind of stuff. The 49ers traded up to the third pick in late March, think that was Wilson’s Pro Day - so free agency was long gone by then.

Not that Douglas wouldn’t have done that, but man what a terrible process if he did.

My premise for it is that Douglas (as reported) became enamored with Wilson at some point in the 2019 college season and by January had tagged him as their guy. They spent the next few months talking to him and his people over Zoom. Wilson family advisor Steve Young—who transparently hates the Jets—warned the family against letting Zach end up here, which was an obstacle Douglas had to overcome. We know the Niners wanted Zach, and we know the Eagles were likewise interested. The Niners move-up was to be in position to draft Zach if Team Wilson and Young were able to exert enough pressure on Douglas to pass on Zach, and Douglas cut a deal with them to ensure Zach ended up with the Jets.

[derp]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

My premise for it is that Douglas (as reported) became enamored with Wilson at some point in the 2019 college season and by January had tagged him as their guy. They spent the next few months talking to him and his people over Zoom. Wilson family advisor Steve Young—who transparently hates the Jets—warned the family against letting Zach end up here, which was an obstacle Douglas had to overcome. We know the Niners wanted Zach, and we know the Eagles were likewise interested. The Niners move-up was to be in position to draft Zach if Team Wilson and Young were able to exert enough pressure on Douglas to pass on Zach, and Douglas cut a deal with them to ensure Zach ended up with the Jets.

Would honestly be fireable to lock in that hard that early. The dude had enough red flags in college, his circle didn’t want him to be here, and you got offered massive deals in an awesome draft to move down. When you’ve got that many reasons to go in another direction and you just stick to your guns, you kind of need to be right.

I think about Eli Manning in 2004, Chargers got a haul and Rivers and did just fine. Philly’s done so well spinning assets from moving down that class too.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Yeah that sounds good and all but there are also VERY few QBs ever as gifted as Zach is throwing the ball.

Also benching Zach was a horrid decision. The worst possible move the Jets could have made in regards to Zach.

Wow.  Talk about alternate realities.....

 

 

[Saul Goodman]

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

Let's just send coach over to GB and have him beat some sense into their GM

Saleh looks like he could put on some pads and play. Dude definitely takes his weight training seriously. 

[JETS SB]

44 minutes ago, derp said:

Would honestly be fireable to lock in that hard that early. The dude had enough red flags in college, his circle didn’t want him to be here, and you got offered massive deals in an awesome draft to move down. When you’ve got that many reasons to go in another direction and you just stick to your guns, you kind of need to be right.

I think about Eli Manning in 2004, Chargers got a haul and Rivers and did just fine. Philly’s done so well spinning assets from moving down that class too.

So this has turned into the Aaron Rodgers and the Zach Wilson sucks thread. It does make it easier to find sh*t. Now it’s all in one place ! Thanks guys !

[derp]

 

5 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

So this has turned into the Aaron Rodgers and the Zach Wilson sucks thread. It does make it easier to find sh*t. Now it’s all in one place ! Thanks guys !

More a discussion about resource allocation than anything, but read it as you like I guess.

[jtomm]

7 minutes ago, derp said:

More a discussion about resource allocation than anything, but read it as you like I guess.

[32EBoozer]

7 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Douglas’ biggest mistake was not throwing big $ at Doug Pederson to become Jets coach after being let go by Eagles in 2020. He develops QBs. I understand he may have wanted to take a break but JD had a relationship with him and could not take no for an answer. Opportunity lost!

@Reasonable Jets Fan & @JETS SB Was the thumbs down reaction due to Doug Pederson as an option at coach, or, throwing big $ to get him to take the job?

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

My premise for it is that Douglas (as reported) became enamored with Wilson at some point in the 2019 college season and by January had tagged him as their guy. They spent the next few months talking to him and his people over Zoom. Wilson family advisor Steve Young—who transparently hates the Jets—warned the family against letting Zach end up here, which was an obstacle Douglas had to overcome. We know the Niners wanted Zach, and we know the Eagles were likewise interested. The Niners move-up was to be in position to draft Zach if Team Wilson and Young were able to exert enough pressure on Douglas to pass on Zach, and Douglas cut a deal with them to ensure Zach ended up with the Jets.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

My premise for it is that Douglas (as reported) became enamored with Wilson at some point in the 2019 college season and by January had tagged him as their guy. They spent the next few months talking to him and his people over Zoom. Wilson family advisor Steve Young—who transparently hates the Jets—warned the family against letting Zach end up here, which was an obstacle Douglas had to overcome. We know the Niners wanted Zach, and we know the Eagles were likewise interested. The Niners move-up was to be in position to draft Zach if Team Wilson and Young were able to exert enough pressure on Douglas to pass on Zach, and Douglas cut a deal with them to ensure Zach ended up with the Jets.

I wonder what the Jets would have done if Zach's family told them to F off. Trade down, I presume? 

I also wonder what the 49ers would have looked like with Zach Wilson starting for them in 2021 and 2022. Would they have been willing to bench him for Jimmy G? 

[Dunnie]

Zach sucks and was always going to suck here, but Douglas looked at the landscape and knew he wasn’t going to get his shot at a QB prospect the level of Zach Wilson again. The 2021 class was balls and he knew it. The great mistake with Zach Wilson was in gifting him the starting job from day one instead of redshirting him while he got his sh*t together. 

This. Zach should have sat. Now, being men and not children, they are attempting to salvage the situation by sitting him behind one of the greatest players ever.

Zach Wilson will play again boys.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[oatmeal]

4 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

This. Zach should have sat. Now, being men and not children, they are attempting to salvage the situation by sitting him behind one of the greatest players ever.

Zach Wilson will play again boys.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

[Embrace the Suck]

 

[neckdemon]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

If Shanahan had gotten Zach people would be calling him a franchise guy right now.

doubtful. zach has been just about the worst qb you'll ever see play at the nfl level

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

....Steve Young—who transparently hates the Jets—....

Why is this?  I keep hearing he hates us, but I've never heard any reason provided for this supposed hatred.

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, ptisme said:

Show you what?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

This. Zach should have sat.

So you admit that you, and those who shared your viewpoint, were 100% wrong in demanding that Zach start day 1, and that no legit QB be brought in to compete against him?

Cool, it's nice to see people admit when they were wrong.

[varjet]

Just going by the eyeball test-both in terms of howhe plays and how he is built physically,, I just don't EVER see Zach Wilson becoming a top 10 NFL QB, even if things go well.  I can see a Geno Smith type turnaround, years out.  Geno was drafted at the top of the second round.  He looks like a child.  He carries himself like a child.   I can't even think of another NFL QB who comes off as such a pipsqueak.  I am sorry, but I just can't.

People compare Wilson to Rodgers in size, build, etc.  Look at the pictures of Aaron Rodgers buying crystals, working out, etc.  You can tell he is an elite athlete and is well put together.  Even at 39.  I think at 39 Aaron Rodgers would beat the poop out of Wilson.  

This Wilson reclamation project is well-intended but too late.  People say he should sit on the bench and not play at all for a whole year.  I don't get that.  Jordan Love got some playing time last year, played ok and will likely get his fifth year option exercised next month.  Zach Wilson should be training, mentally and physically, and should be able to step in mid-season and play well if required.  

 

[maury77]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Wow.  Talk about alternate realities.....

 

 

This thread has gotten so long that we are now resurrecting draft conversations from 2021. You can't play QB in the NFL if you fall apart under pressure .... even if you have the arm of Elway, Marino's release and Vicks legs. 

[AFJF]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why is this?  I keep hearing he hates us, but I've never heard any reason provided for this supposed hatred.

Didn't realize it was a thing until this season.  Heard him do a weekly spot on ESPN radio and if they asked Steve anything about Zach Wilson, his response was basically that because Robert Saleh was a defensive coordinator he's incapable of putting together a staff to help Zach.  It took about 9 straight weeks of Zach playing like trash for Young to finally admit it might be a good idea to sit him.  Not sure if he has history with Saleh but clearly hates the guy.

[Dunnie]

So you admit that you, and those who shared your viewpoint, were 100% wrong in demanding that Zach start day 1, and that no legit QB be brought in to compete against him?
Cool, it's nice to see people admit when they were wrong.

Seeing as I never said that .. yes I admit they were wrong

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jets4Life1979]

I need this deal to be done already......the last thing we need is craig carton being proved right.  And for the people who say dont worry its gonna get done, im sorry this front office gets no benefit of the doubt

[TuscanyTile2]

3 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh looks like he could put on some pads and play. Dude definitely takes his weight training seriously. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

20 minutes ago, Jets4Life1979 said:

I need this deal to be done already......the last thing we need is craig carton being proved right.  And for the people who say dont worry its gonna get done, im sorry this front office gets no benefit of the doubt

Carton is the absolute worst.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, bicketybam said:

Let's just send coach over to GB and have him beat some sense into their GM

The hole is the other direction, Robert.

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, derp said:

Would honestly be fireable to lock in that hard that early. The dude had enough red flags in college, his circle didn’t want him to be here, and you got offered massive deals in an awesome draft to move down. When you’ve got that many reasons to go in another direction and you just stick to your guns, you kind of need to be right.

I think about Eli Manning in 2004, Chargers got a haul and Rivers and did just fine. Philly’s done so well spinning assets from moving down that class too.

Definitely questionable process (if that’s even roughly what took place), but philosophically when you are at 2 and there’s a QB prospect staring you in the face who had consensus value, you kinda have to take him, no?

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Why is this?  I keep hearing he hates us, but I've never heard any reason provided for this supposed hatred.

Young has done a weekly spot with the Michael Kay Show on ESPN radio and regularly throws shade at the organization—not that he’s wrong, mind you—and he’s compared it to the early-80’s Bucs team he got drafted to. His commentary leading up to Zach being drafted here basically boiled down to “I worry about him going there because of the history, but Greg Knapp being there makes me feel better about it.” Then be spent the last two years sniping about Saleh and LaFleur. Again, not that he was wrong. There are a few pre-draft articles floating around where he’s quoted as saying Zach and the Niners are a perfect match, but it seems like the Jets are dug in, etc. 

[GangGreened]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Definitely questionable process (if that’s even roughly what took place), but philosophically when you are at 2 and there’s a QB prospect staring you in the face who had consensus value, you kinda have to take him, no?

No matter how much of his tape I watched he never felt like the “right” pick to me. Apparently Douglas had only seen tape up until his pro day as well. Maybe it was the sting of losing Lawrence because I hadn’t even looked into him until then, but IDK. I would have hated to be in that position, but my gut would have told me to go full Kevin Costner and take Chase if I was stuck at 2.

[derp]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Definitely questionable process (if that’s even roughly what took place), but philosophically when you are at 2 and there’s a QB prospect staring you in the face who had consensus value, you kinda have to take him, no?

I don't think consensus especially matters when you're making a decision with the magnitude of taking a quarterback #2 overall - especially when you have alternatives. I don't think I care what the consensus opinion is, I want to make the right decision, right?

Also without going on a long rant about it, the track record of quarterbacks going in the 2-5 range is absolutely terrible - so I think philosophically if you're there and thinking about a QB it's prudent to pump the breaks. Is this a QB who would've gone first overall almost any year but this year the guy who went first is just that out of the world special (which - I don't know the last time we got two of those guys in a year), or is this just the second best QB this year? Because if it's the latter, let's pump the breaks a little. History shows teams who do this have it blow up in their face, so we should really think about it.

The other big thing is that some players are just unique, right? So people want to find the next Mahomes. I don't think there's going to be a next Mahomes. Teams get burned trying to copycat all the time. So I'd be skeptical about that too. At the end of the day, there are going to be a bunch of uniquely talented players with some overlap in certain areas and also some traits only that individual has, not a bunch of clones. I want to find the next guy who people are going to try to replicate. Think that's the better approach.

It was really easy to look at Zach Wilson and say he's talented but I have no idea how he can play against pressure because the line he played behind was absurdly elite, and that's an important skill. So if you take him, you have to sit him and bring him along slowly. If he doesn't believe that, maybe he belongs somewhere else. And if there are offers on the table, especially from more stable organizations, I think the answer to ownership if he hits elsewhere is we didn't think we had the organizational infrastructure to support that (which they didn't).

Ultimately he's been really really lucky he got so many bites at the high draft pick apple from dumping Maccagnan picks. 

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

No matter how much of his tape I watched he never felt like the “right” pick to me. Apparently Douglas had only seen tape up until his pro day as well. Maybe it was the sting of losing Lawrence because I hadn’t even looked into him until then, but IDK. I would have hated to be in that position, but my gut would have told me to go full Kevin Costner and take Chase if I was stuck at 2.

Yeah, I was against it because he was rarely pressured at BYU and we just watched three years of Darnold getting bounced off the turf. That, and Zach’s personality grated on me. The Jets QB has to be a gritty psycho who’s seen a lot of sh*t and Zach was such a herb. All that said, the component parts of Wilson were worth taking a chance on. 

[choon328]

7 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Zach was as not ready to start in the NFL as much as any QB I've ever seen. Milf wasn't ready to to teach Zach his system, adapt it to his blaring weaknesses and install it all at the same time. Not even close. I think Milf's system with a guy who already knew how to play QB in the NFL would have been just fine. Zach would have likely failed on the rest of the 31 NFL teams if made to start right away in my opinion. I don't think he will ever be a top 5 QB in the league, Id be impressed he could be at the middle of the pack at this point. 

It's hard to explain how he got worse from year 1 to year 2 in the same system with the same play caller. My opinion is that Zach is not a hard worker and that's why he didn't improve. He regressed mentally big time from year 1 to year 2, that's not a Coordinator problem. 

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, derp said:

I don't think consensus especially matters when you're making a decision with the magnitude of taking a quarterback #2 overall - especially when you have alternatives. I don't think I care what the consensus opinion is, I want to make the right decision, right?

Also without going on a long rant about it, the track record of quarterbacks going in the 2-5 range is absolutely terrible - so I think philosophically if you're there and thinking about a QB it's prudent to pump the breaks. Is this a QB who would've gone first overall almost any year but this year the guy who went first is just that out of the world special (which - I don't know the last time we got two of those guys in a year), or is this just the second best QB this year? Because if it's the latter, let's pump the breaks a little. History shows teams who do this have it blow up in their face, so we should really think about it.

The other big thing is that some players are just unique, right? So people want to find the next Mahomes. I don't think there's going to be a next Mahomes. Teams get burned trying to copycat all the time. So I'd be skeptical about that too. At the end of the day, there are going to be a bunch of uniquely talented players with some overlap in certain areas and also some traits only that individual has, not a bunch of clones. I want to find the next guy who people are going to try to replicate. Think that's the better approach.

It was really easy to look at Zach Wilson and say he's talented but I have no idea how he can play against pressure because the line he played behind was absurdly elite, and that's an important skill. So if you take him, you have to sit him and bring him along slowly. If he doesn't believe that, maybe he belongs somewhere else. And if there are offers on the table, especially from more stable organizations, I think the answer to ownership if he hits elsewhere is we didn't think we had the organizational infrastructure to support that (which they didn't).

Ultimately he's been really really lucky he got so many bites at the high draft pick apple from dumping Maccagnan picks. 

Ok so, in three weeks somebody is going to spend a top three pick on Anthony Richardson who, while obviously is a 10x better athlete than Zach hasn’t shown nearly the ability as a passer. Steve Pallazzollo makes this case all the time—if you’re picking in the top five and you don’t already have an elite QB, your best value comes from trying your hand at a reasonably talented quarterback because hitting on one elevates your franchise in a way that no other position or coach can. Practically, it’s a terrible idea to draft a QB high unless you have a rock solid conviction about a prospect, but from an analytics standpoint, it’s where you get your best return

[choon328]

2 hours ago, neckdemon said:

doubtful. zach has been just about the worst qb you'll ever see play at the nfl level

So many people think your comment if overboard but statistically he's probably the worst 1st rd pick QB in a long time. But people still defend him

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

30 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Young has done a weekly spot with the Michael Kay Show on ESPN radio and regularly throws shade at the organization—not that he’s wrong, mind you—and he’s compared it to the early-80’s Bucs team he got drafted to. His commentary leading up to Zach being drafted here basically boiled down to “I worry about him going there because of the history, but Greg Knapp being there makes me feel better about it.” Then be spent the last two years sniping about Saleh and LaFleur. Again, not that he was wrong. There are a few pre-draft articles floating around where he’s quoted as saying Zach and the Niners are a perfect match, but it seems like the Jets are dug in, etc. 

I tend to doubt mental and pocket toughness are coachable.

Neither is leadership.

You either have it or you don’t.

I also remember how during the very first OTA practice, Saleh mentioned it being a closed (no reporters) throwing session for ZW.

Unsolicited, he offered that it had nothing to do with “trying to hide [ZW]” from the cameras.

From the get-go, they created this weird contradictory dynamic of being adamant about throwing him out there week 1 and the entire season with zero competition, while at the same time trying to tamp down any and all expectations for immediate signs of being “#2 overall worthy”, while at the same time touting him continually as “the future of the organization” capable of doing “Superman” type things with his “elite arm talent.”

It always seemed more about ZW than about the team.

Now that their pre-anointed hero-turned-bust has crumbled under the weight of expectation, they are maybe finally putting winning and team success first.