1st round edge was the right move

[football guy]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

When looking at the first round how do they not have an initial order and just stick to that?

That has to be able to be pre-planned.  Honestly, what am I missing if it's not?

It's not like you've already taken a player and then it adjusts based on that player taken?

The vertical board is largely generated by the grade, whereas the horizontal is to account for positional value and resource allocation. They do add weights to their scores but if the RB and the DE are in the same tier, they’re going with the DE even if the RB has a higher grade

[Rich Thornburgh]

4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Btw, for those who don't believe in defense anymore, the last three Super Bowl champions were all top 5 in sacks. 

If you want to win a Super Bowl you have to go through Kansas City, probably on the road in their building on a cold disgusting day in January.  We are not winning a scoring contest with Mahomes.  The way you beat Mahomes is pass rush.

[PS17]

I’m definitely guilty of this ?

 

[football guy]

3 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

weapons of mass destruction?

This has the potential to be a great nickname... 

Will McDonald, the Weapon of Mass Destruction 

[Dunnie]

That's what she said ...

Harrumph

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[LIJetsFan]

7 hours ago, JetHammer said:

Do you remember the time when people used to moan we haven't drafted edge since Jon Abraham!....

I think that it's we drafted 2 last year and neither one was in the DROY hunt so some Jets fans think why bother.  These SOJFans are going to take a lot of convincing.  I myself thank the football gods that we have a keeper at GM.     

[LIJetsFan]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

McDonald was drafted for sacks. Not pressures, sacks. It will be a disappointment if he doesn’t become an annual 8+ sack guy. Not saying he has to hit 8 his rookie year to avoid being a bust but he needs to get there by years 2 or 3 at latest to be considered a good pick at 15. 

and you know this how? Might I remind you, "pressure breaks pipes" or something like that.  The statements in bold are beneath you.  Your arguing from a false premise.    

[Maynard13]

3 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Not necessarily.  We dafted Tippman who will start at C an McGovern would move in at Guard.  JD probably prefers AVT at RT over Fant.  AVT is younger and better.  Regardless I think Mitchell starts at RT anyway

Thinking is dangerous

[jgb]

4 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

and you know this how? Might I remind you, "pressure breaks pipes" or something like that.  The statements in bold are beneath you.  Your arguing from a false premise.    

Because I’m smart

[neckdemon]

19 hours ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

abanikanda IS a weapon..,..and our wrs overall are better this year with hardman and lazard. oline should be better too if they can stay healthy. also remind how mahomes did when he was getting constantly pressured by the bucs
also please name the teams that have more than 2 elite talents in offensive skill positions. the eagles, bengals and maybe the 49ers? and US? we have hall, rodgers and wilson

[rangerous]

12 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!

Let me get this straight the Jets had one of the worst defenses in years, then we draft and procure talent at the edge rusher position and the Jets had a Championship level defense last year and now many are saying that is bad thing!

Cause those making this critique know next to nothing about creating or running an NFL defense when compared to Robert Saleh... so this is insane!

in all fairness i think the success of last season's defense was due more to the addition of sauce and reed at the corners. true that lawson made some good plays and johnson started to come on but the corners made it difficult for the offenses more than the edge guys.

[Dunnie]

abanikanda IS a weapon..,..and our wrs overall are better this year with hardman and lazard. oline should be better too if they can stay healthy. also remind how mahomes did when he was getting constantly pressured by the bucs
also please name the teams that have more than 2 elite talents in offensive skill positions. the eagles, bengals and maybe the 49ers? and US? we have hall, rodgers and wilson

The OLine has never been a strength in this team .. ever ... I have never seen a Phili, Dallas, NE esque line on Jets.

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[Doggin94it]

Just now, Dunnie said:

The OLine has never been a strength in this team .. ever ... I have never seen a Phili, Dallas, NE esque line on Jets.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Brick-Faneca-Mangold-Moore-Woody

[Dunnie]

Brick-Faneca-Mangold-Moore-Woody

That was a close at the the Jets have gotten .. bit watching NE Brady era lines, Dallas Aikman era lines, and now Phili ... Not the same class .. and the Brick/Mangold/Faneca era was one of my favorite lines.

Interesting that a sh*t QB like Sanchez looked competent ... I love these guys that think all you need is da weponz.

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[32EBoozer]

20 minutes ago, rangerous said:

in all fairness i think the success of last season's defense was due more to the addition of sauce and reed at the corners. true that lawson made some good plays and johnson started to come on but the corners made it difficult for the offenses more than the edge guys.

Hopefully there will be more balance I in defensive strength this year. Year two of JJ and Clemons, Huff playing for a contract and Lawson two years removed from surgery. Add McDonald’s speed and bend And year two of the Sauce/Reed pairing, and I think we can even be a better defense.

[neckdemon]

17 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

The OLine has never been a strength in this team .. ever ... I have never seen a Phili, Dallas, NE esque line on Jets.

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i said it should be better i never said it was going to be elite

also o-lines look better when the opposing defense front 7 can't just stack the box or rush with abandon because they have to fear that the qb can exploit that. rodgers will make defenses pay for blitzing too many times or guys

[GreenReaper]

Was I surprised by the McDonald pick...yes.  But it does make sense. 

The one one piece missing to this defense...that would have a major impact...is the addition of a John Abraham-Von Miller scary pass rushing demon.  Jets never replaced Abraham.  Jets would have an outside force to complement Q inside, if McDonald pans out.  And JD-Saleh think he will. 

Did the Jets want a blue chip OT at 15?  Yea...but no one was available.  So they moved on to take someone who was high on their board at a premium position.   Jets fans won't  be sorry if McDonald  ends up terrorizing QBs for our NYJ for the next 5-8 years.  Jets simply don't have a DL with McDonald's  skills and explosiveness.  He's a freak athlete with a relentless motor.   

This year he'll most likely be situational as he refines and develops his skills.  By year two we may see McDonald jumping over OL...like he does with cars...and closing in on QBs and RBs.  With those long arms sniping  the ball out.  Grabbing-sacking-blocked PDs...as he uses that combination of swim-chop and speed-bend ...to blow up plays in the backfield.  

He may not be a ROTY this year.  But he has the skill set to be special.  JD-Saleh believe he will be.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[Warfish]

13 hours ago, football guy said:

Makeup of final boards are a fickle thing because there’s some element to bias team-to-team, purposefully stacking it in a way to bump players that they know they’re going to take (most commonly for QBs)

I do take their word he was 8th, which ironically was what Jermaine Johnson was last year as well. What I don’t believe is that they would’ve still taken him if Jones was still there, who was a top 13 player on their board. They’ll never come out and say it but it does happen

An example of a gross departure from the board? Christian Hackenberg. That was Maccagnan identifying a QB he wanted and ignoring the scouts’ grading to select him

I understand.

Point is that no team ever comes out and says "yeah, this isn't the guy we targeted or wanted, he was like 10th on our list of guys we wanted, but our preferred guys all got picked, so I guess this guy was all that was left".

Even IF the above were in fact what happened, teams always come out and say "yeah, this guy was like, tots like #3 overall on OUR board (even if the guy was projected as a 2nd rounder), we're amazed he was available (not fell, available) at our pick, and we are so happy".

i.e. It's all PR after the fact.  That's all.  McD was 8th on their Board?  Believe it, don't, doesn't matter, he's the guy they picked.

[slats]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I understand.

Point is that no team ever comes out and says "yeah, this isn't the guy we targeted or wanted, he was like 10th on our list of guys we wanted, but our preferred guys all got picked, so I guess this guy was all that was left".

Even IF the above were in fact what happened, teams always come out and say "yeah, this guy was like, tots like #3 overall on OUR board (even if the guy was projected as a 2nd rounder), we're amazed he was available (not fell, available) at our pick, and we are so happy".

i.e. It's all PR after the fact.  That's all.  McD was 8th on their Board?  Believe it, don't, doesn't matter, he's the guy they picked.

I think it’s safe to say that that’s pretty much understood. Every team is very happy with their draft every year without exception. 
 
It could also be true, as @football guy said, that they did actually have McDonald rated higher as a prospect, but had the OT listed higher due to perceived need. Or not, lol. Like you said, it really doesn’t matter. 
 
For me, I didn’t want another first round OL and thought going into the draft that the DL was the larger priority. I was hoping for a center in the second, though, and they clearly landed their favorite there, so I’m good. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

I think it’s safe to say that that’s pretty much understood. Every team is very happy with their draft every year without exception. 
 
It could also be true, as @football guy said, that they did actually have McDonald rated higher as a prospect, but had the OT listed higher due to perceived need. Or not, lol. Like you said, it really doesn’t matter. 

I just said something about this in another thread, but it's amazing IMO that literally no one at JN was talking about, or advocating for, McDonald prior to his being picked.  That's exceedingly rare in my experience here and at JI, that a guy is picked in the first that no one amongst the fans was advocating for and no one in the fanbase was talking about.  

The lone exception, interestingly, was @football guy who in my search was the only one who really mentioned McDonald directly, and seemed in several posts pre-draft to imply the Jets were interested in him.  For "insider" bona fides, this may be one of the more clear cut cases frankly, given the absolute lack of talk about McDonald except for him.

2 minutes ago, slats said:

For me, I didn’t want another first round OL and thought going into the draft that the DL was the larger priority. I was hoping for a center in the second, though, and they clearly landed their favorite there, so I’m good. 

I may quibble with which specific Center a bit, but I'm very glad we drafted a Center.  I hope Tipp is everything we want.  And the 2nd was the likely spot IMO as well, so we agree on that.  

[Claymation]

The 1982 NY Jets OL of Ward, Waldemore, Fields, Alexander and Powell was a pretty damn good OL. They had 2 All pros on that line in Powell and Fields.

Hell, the 1999 OL of Elliott, Jenkins, Mawae, Thomas and Fabini was solid as well.

You could make the argument that the '82 OL was better than the'82 DL.

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I just said something about this in another thread, but it's amazing IMO that literally no one at JN was talking about, or advocating for, McDonald prior to his being picked.  That's exceedingly rare in my experience here and at JI, that a guy is picked in the first that no one amongst the fans was advocating for and no one in the fanbase was talking about.  

The lone exception, interestingly, was @football guy who in my search was the only one who really mentioned McDonald directly, and seemed in several posts pre-draft to imply the Jets were interested in him.  For "insider" bona fides, this may be one of the more clear cut cases frankly, given the absolute lack of talk about McDonald except for him.

Obviously, this is why the pick is a head scratcher for many. Most people wanted the OT, some wanted the WR, no one was really talking edge. I was talking DT but, when you look at the first round, there just weren’t any plug & play guys there at #15. Definitely seemed like Douglas worked the phones for a trade down before the pick, or maybe he was fielding offers. Either way, the internal debate was is the BAP (which McDonald clearly became at that time) worth more or less to us than what we’re being offered for the pick? They decided he was. Even though no one was talking about him before, there’s a lot to like once you start reading up on the guy or watching YouTube. 
 
I take @football guy at his word as I have no reason not to. I was disappointed when he said before the draft that the Jets were targeting an OT, then happy when the Steelers jumped us. I stand by what I said that day, though, I’d rather have the edge who’s guaranteed to at least be in the DL rotation over an OT who had a very good chance of riding the bench. 

[football guy]

19 minutes ago, slats said:

It could also be true, as @football guy said, that they did actually have McDonald rated higher as a prospect, but had the OT listed higher due to perceived need. Or not, lol. Like you said, it really doesn’t matter. 

Personally I don't care what the Jets are leaking right now; I can't get inside Joe's head, but based on what I heard and know throughout the entire process I trust they would've taken Jones and would've chalked it up to resource allocation/positional value even if WMD had a better grade. Kind of like @Warfish is saying, it becomes a bit of a PR exercise after the pick is made. Ultimately doesn't matter- what's done is done. 

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The lone exception, interestingly, was @football guy who in my search was the only one who really mentioned McDonald directly, and seemed in several posts pre-draft to imply the Jets were interested in him.  For "insider" bona fides, this may be one of the more clear cut cases frankly, given the absolute lack of talk about McDonald except for him.

23 minutes ago, slats said:

When I found out they had a first-round grade on him it became easy. I had been told prior they had 14/15 first-round players in this draft (conflicting from 2 different people), and if you're drafting 15th that would insinuate that he's at least an option. Didn't find out that he was 8th on their board until yesterday. Exact conversation was about the true discrepancy of the draft: Jermaine Johnson was 8th on their board last year and had a better grade than McDonald did, yet went 26th overall. Depending who you ask, McDonald's floor was 20. 

[RutgersJetFan]

19 minutes ago, slats said:

Obviously, this is why the pick is a head scratcher for many. 

For me the head scratcher is that the Jets have now used first round picks on edge in consecutive years and they still might need an edge rusher after the season is over.

[Ron Rico]

4 hours ago, Dunnie said:

The OLine has never been a strength in this team .. ever ... I have never seen a Phili, Dallas, NE esque line on Jets.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

The 1998-1999 O-Line was great.

[Jethead]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I just said something about this in another thread, but it's amazing IMO that literally no one at JN was talking about, or advocating for, McDonald prior to his being picked.  That's exceedingly rare in my experience here and at JI, that a guy is picked in the first that no one amongst the fans was advocating for and no one in the fanbase was talking about.  

The lone exception, interestingly, was @football guy who in my search was the only one who really mentioned McDonald directly, and seemed in several posts pre-draft to imply the Jets were interested in him.  For "insider" bona fides, this may be one of the more clear cut cases frankly, given the absolute lack of talk about McDonald except for him.

I may quibble with which specific Center a bit, but I'm very glad we drafted a Center.  I hope Tipp is everything we want.  And the 2nd was the likely spot IMO as well, so we agree on that.  

I mentioned him directly but to be fair I preferred Nolan Smith. What I mainly wanted was for JD to have choice. Did not want 4th ranked OL.

 

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Jethead said:

I mentioned him directly but to be fair I preferred Nolan Smith. What I mainly wanted was for JD to have choice. Did not want 4th ranked OL.

Comparable players. Smith is faster, but McDonald is quite a bit longer. Both are a little undersized -the main complaint about WMD- but Smith is smaller. 

[Jethead]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Comparable players. Smith is faster, but McDonald is quite a bit longer. Both are a little undersized -the main complaint about WMD- but Smith is smaller. 

Living in Atlanta, I have been drinking UGA koolaid. Smith was one of my favorites.

Very happy with our pick and the roster being assembled!

[Dax89]

People are severely overestimating our WDE room.  Lawson and Huff are good players but while they're good at getting pressures Lawson's two highest sack figures are 8.5 and 7, and nobody's game planning around either.  Not to mention both are only on contract for 1 year.  Draft picks are 4-5 year investments.  JJ and Clemons aren't wide-9 players.  

Eagles and San Fran have been stacking their D-line with high draft picks for years, nobody is calling them stupid for doing it.  

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

It doesn't matter any more, but I'd really like to know where the Jets had JSN on their board.  Day 2 grade?

Maybe @football guy can tell us?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Jethead said:

Did not want 4th ranked OL.

I think the one thing we al agree on, based on the way the draft went, is that appropriate OT's were all gone by our pick, and OT would have been a big reach at #15 at that point.  100% agreed.

[Beerfish]

Eagles and niners blitz far more than the jets and play their best rushers more snaps.

If McDonald can't hold up vs the run which was supposedly a pre-draft weakness he will not get enough snaps to justify the #15 overall pick.

We shall see, time will tell.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I was thinking Kancey might be the pick.

Kancey and McD are both undersized.  But you can play every down 4-3 DT at 280 if you know what you're doing.

The Jets must think McD is a much better prospect than Kancey because they still have a gaping hole at DT.

Interior pass rush with Kancey and Q would have been pretty good.

 

[slats]

28 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Eagles and niners blitz far more than the jets and play their best rushers more snaps.

If McDonald can't hold up vs the run which was supposedly a pre-draft weakness he will not get enough snaps to justify the #15 overall pick.

We shall see, time will tell.

FYI, you appear to be talking out of your anus right now. 

Jets: QW 60%, Lawson 58%, JFM 56%, Rankins 49%

Eagles: Cox and Hargrove 64%, Sweat 53%, Graham 43%

49ers: Bosa 69%, Omenihu 53%, Ebukam 52%, Hyder 33%

But keep singing that same tune, soon it will be a classic. 

[32EBoozer]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

FYI, you appear to be talking out of your anus right now. 

Jets: QW 60%, Lawson 58%, JFM 56%, Rankins 49%

Eagles: Cox and Hargrove 64%, Sweat 53%, Graham 43%

49ers: Bosa 69%, Omenihu 53%, Ebukam 52%, Hyder 33%

But keep singing that same tune, soon it will be a classic.