1st round edge was the right move

[Maynard13]

25 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

And AVT might end up being a tackle...

Terrible move. Did not like it then, dont like it now. AVT excels at guard. You instantly water down the effectiveness of the OL moving him to a position hes not as good at and compromise the guard position as well. 

[Barry McCockinner]

59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

I think if you go back and look at the offensive & defensive rankings of Superbowl winners you'll find most of them have highly ranked offenses and defenses. 

I do think we need to add to a big time WR (dhop please) and a swing T (Fant?) still but putting a guy out there that can get to Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, etc definitely improves our chances of hitting on the short window.

[RedBeardedSavage]

4 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Terrible move. Did not like it then, dont like it now. AVT excels at guard. You instantly water down the effectiveness of the OL moving him to a position hes not as good at and compromise the guard position as well. 

Disagree.

If AVT is the best RT on the roster, he should play RT.

Tackle is more important than guard and I'd rather have a good tackle + decent guard than a great guard + a sub-par tackle.

We'll see what happens in camp with the tackles we have. 

[jetblue95]

52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

 

given corey davis remains on the team and they didn't draft a WR at any point, i'd have to think the coaching staff feels comfortable with the receiving corps.  they have a young stud in GW and a few veterans in davis, lazard and hardman.  it's probably wishful thinking to expect anything out of mims, but he should get his chance.  and i'd guess we will see another veteran added (most likely randall cobb as a nod to rodgers).  while i too was hoping for JSN when we were on the clock (and as a michigan alum, THAT is not easy), it's clear WR was not a priority.  and given the first WR didn't come off the board until pick 20 or so, it may be that the WR class lacks the elite upside that last year's had (GW, olave, j williams, london all went top 12).  if they considered the top WR a lower prospect than mcdonald, it would be a mistake to pick the WR, especially for what is an already crowded receiving corps.  i get that mcdonald will probably be a situational pass rusher to start his career.  well JSN would likely have been a rotational players as well, at least to start his career.

obviously they upgraded at the QB position, and hopefully improve the overall scheme with the change in offensive coaching staff.  i know it's fun to beat up on hackett (not saying you did this specifically), but he and rodgers have a pretty good history together and having the coach and QB on the same page is clearly a big change from last year.  so i think overall, between bringing in rodgers and a new offensive staff/scheme, upgrading (imo) lazard and hardman over moore and berrios, adding some dart throws in the RB&TE in the draft, and hopefully seeing better overall health in the o-line (it would be hard to be worse than last year) and getting breece back, that the foundation is set for an material improvement in the offense.  

mcdonald clearly wasn't on my radar.  but he's not just some workout warrier.  he's tied for the all-time lead in sacks in the big 12.  obviously the jets had him higher than most of the "mocks", but he was still considered a 1st round prospect.  i don't think he is mike mamula, a workout warrior that comes from nowhere to go in the top 10.

 

[RevisIsland610]

48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

This offense is going to be far better than you think and harder to defend. Rodgers changes everything and I think you are wrong about the supporting cast being thin. Oline should be healthier and deeper, WR's are an upgrade over last year and I'm not sure JD is done adding to that group. Running backs are solid especially when Hall returns to form. TE's are ok as well. You can't compare an offense led by 4 time MVP Rodgers to one that had ZW behind center for the better part of the last 2 years. He was the worst QB in the league and the entire offense suffered. Also getting to the QB is just as important and both Philly and KC did this very well. Edge is an elite position. This team could use more outside pressure to sack the QB and create more TO's. Both of those aspects were lacking with this defense. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

this is all true but it's better to get an impact EDGE (or anything) then whiff on a weapon just because QBs need weapons. 

this is "best player available" Theory and we've been talking about it for literally decades together

Looking at the WR that did get drafted there's gotta be a reason JSN fell from top 10 mock draft darling to 20 or wherever he actually went. 

I like Zay Flowers (a lot) and also Jordan Addison but for size reasons I get why neither is worth a top 20 pick. 

Will McDonald IV was a legit prospect before 2022 draft and he's more legit now. He's got like the 5th biggest broad jump in DE combine history. And it was a need too. Carl Lawson is not going to play forever (maybe 1 more year), JJ is kind of a disappointment, Even accounting for Huff they needed more there. 

WR and DE are are both premium position they could always turn around and trade him or JJ or Huff if they need an extra pick in the future  

[Maynard13]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Disagree.

If AVT is the best RT on the roster, he should play RT.

Tackle is more important than guard and I'd rather have a good tackle + decent guard than a great guard + a sub-par tackle.

We'll see what happens in camp with the tackles we have. 

But hes not the best RT.  he doesnt have the meassurements to be a dominant RT. If that were the case, why then not draft Cyrus Torrence at guard at 15 and slide AVT to tackle.  Actually I would have een preferred that over McDuck at 15 since Lake was lousy last year. 

[ScarletKnight89]

I don't understand why people wanted JSN anyway. Wilson/Lazard/Davis/Hardman are already on this roster. I understand you draft for the long term and not short term but the edge rusher is a much more important position to fill out for this team. There's receivers that come along every draft. 

Having a wave of pass rushers is better for this team in the short and long term than having another receiver. 

[fullblast]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No, it wasn't.

Oh ok

[LockeJET]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

You forgot AVT and G. Wilson 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, Maynard13 said:

But hes not the best RT.  he doesnt have the meassurements to be a dominant RT. If that were the case, why then not draft Cyrus Torrence at guard at 15 and slide AVT to tackle.  Actually I would have een preferred that over McDuck at 15 since Lake was lousy last year. 

All of my concern about AVT's arm length limiting his ability to play tackle is gone after his stint there last year. He wasn't just 'solid', he was damn good.

Granted, it could've just been a good stretch and he would've eventually been exposed. We don't know for sure.

That's what training camp is for, though, right? 

With our DE room, we'll find out quick in training camp whether the 'AVT is our RT' meme has any truth to it. 

No reason to decide now.

[Jethead]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

They had the choice of the only offensive weapon anybody thought was of the same caliber and chose McDonald. They have the same reality confronting them that you do and believe me they want to win just as much as you do. Sorry, I trust their judgement over yours. Said with respect.

[Jethead]

Philly lost the Super Bowl because they could not put Mahomes on the ground. Just sayin'.

[Larz]

“ I wanted a WR. Jets didn’t take one. Jets are dumb”

[Columbia Jet Fan]

All that matters is you get a good player. Jets are offseason champions but our fans have a tendency to forget just how hard it is to draft good players. 

From my memory: 

2019: I remember everyone wanting Bosa - but assuming he wouldn't be there a reluctant acceptance that QW would be the pick. If not him people wanted Josh Allen or Ed Oliver - some wanted to trade back or just pick Jonah Williams. Turns out QW was the right pick and the other options would have been OK at best (its likely all of the other three will no longer be with their teams after next year if not sooner)

2020: WR or OT? Protect Darnold or get him a weapon? Turns out it didn't matter. Jets could have gone either way and gotten a stud (CeeDee or Wirfs - kinda JJ but this would be w/ hindsight b/c I think most people had him below the bama WRs + CD) or be disappointed (Becton, Ruggs, kinda Jeudy - I still think he can be good). 

2021: Weird b/c of QB and trade up so I'll ignore

2022: Most people wanted OT or Edge at #4. CB not important in this scheme! We like Bryce Hall! We just signed DJ Reed to be #1 CB! Well my guess is if we had to choose 1 player on our team to "protect" from a league wide draft our choice would be Sauce. Anyone want to trade Sauce for Icky/thibs/evan neal? At number 10 it was edge or WR - sorry JJ but GW17 was the right choice there. 

Things change quickly. Lawson will be gone next year almost assuredly, Huff may be as well. If McDonald can become a good edge rusher it was worth it. If he sucks or is meh it wasn't.

 

 

[Maynard13]

16 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

All of my concern about AVT's arm length limiting his ability to play tackle is gone after his stint there last year. He wasn't just 'solid', he was damn good.

Granted, it could've just been a good stretch and he would've eventually been exposed. We don't know for sure.

That's what training camp is for, though, right? 

With our DE room, we'll find out quick in training camp whether the 'AVT is our RT' meme has any truth to it. 

No reason to decide now.

Hopefully it doesnt happen. He's a great guard and thats where he was drafted to play.  Even if Sko was there at 15, he'd more likely play guard as well as they are very similar.  More than likely they draft a tackle next year.  The Pitt tackle they drafted is more suited as a depth piece like Mitchell.  Brown is gone after this year so they will need another tackle to go along with Becton and will need yet another guard to relpace Lake.  Unreal the OL is still a mess after 5 years under JD. Still lots of refining to do but its getting there.

[BUM-KNEE]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

Since 2007 we have picked Defense with our top #1 pick 13 times out of 17 years.  

Of the remaining 4 top #1 picks, three were QB's!  Sanchez, Darnold and Wilson.

Only once in the past 17 years has our top #1 pick been a non-QB Offensive player, and that was Becton. 

And what do we have to show for this incredible investment of draft capital to the Defense and the constant hiring of Defense minded Head Coaches?

The longest streak of uncompetitive football in the NFL.

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

All this said, I just think the route to change is CHANGE, to try and win by building elite talent on offense.  Not doing the same old defense, defense, defense thing we've always done, especially with a pick like this one that is almost all athleticism/RAS score based, who at most will only be a rotational guy while we have Rodgers.  especially the year after we invested a #1 in a supposedly elite edge rusher (a narrative that's now changed when this pick got made, lol).

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

Youre correct, you cant win if you cant score.

 Sacks/pressures keep the opposing O off balance, and even keeps them from putting scoring drives together. 

It was a good pick

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I say it over and over, the NFL is an offense-dominated league.  You do not win if you do not score.

Our Offense has been ranked 28th, 29th, 28th, 11th (Fitzy), 30th, 24th, 23rd, 31st, 32nd, 28th and 29th since 2012.

No wonder we're the leader by far in years without a playoff appearance.  

Closest we came, yup, 2015 with Fitz and the 11th ranked scoring Offense.

And yet, we as a team invest far heavier in Defense with our top picks than we do with offense.  Despite the regime, we seem to consistently try and build the 1985 Bears or the elite D era Ravens, rather than try to compete with the top Offenses.

<snip>

So in desperation, due to our ongoing failure to find or identify a QB, we got Aaron Rodgers.  That is awesome if he still has it (and I think he does).  But he isn't Jesus Christ, he doesn't walk on water, and he won't turn water into wine.  He's 40 ffs. Our supporting cast is thin, subpar at many spots and unreliable health-wise (O-line) and our skill position players have only two elite talents, one of whom is coming back off a horrible injury and is 100% TBD if he'll be the same guy.

<snip>

We paid alot to get Rodgers, I would have gotten him another weapon.  But clearly, mot of the forum does not agree and loves bendy gumby, lol.

I get the historical overview, fish - we've been here together through it, after all. But our wepinz are already elite - better than what Rodgers was working with in GB his MVP seasons:

WR: No, Wilson isn't Davante Adams. But he's a true No. 1 WR who produced at a high level despite dogsh*t QB play last year. Our No. 2 WR - Davis - is a 1A type who is at his best when he's not asked to be the No. 1; he eats against No. 2 coverage, which is what he'll see. Lazard is basically Davis part 2, Hardman is a very good field stretcher and gadget guy with elite speed. I'll take that WR room, overall, ahead of Adams-Lazard-MVS-Cobb (which is what Rodgers was working with in 2021), and so would every GM in the NFL.

TE: Conklin and Uzomah are each better pass-catchers than Robert Tonyan, let alone their No. 2 TE (Marcedes Lewis)

RB: At the high end, and if healthy, Breece Hall is better than Aaron Jones (and that's no slight to Jones who is terrific). AJ Dillon is certainly better than Carter/Bam/Abanikanda, though. Of course, Breece might not be fully recovered, and if so that's a downgrade. But I know you didn't want us taking the third RB in the top 15.

That leaves OL. And yeah, I get the injury concerns at OT. But the 2021 Packers started Elgton Jenkins (a guard) at LT, Jon Runyan Jr. at LG, Lucas Patrick (currently a backup OG on the Bears) at C, Royce Newman at RG, and Billy Turner at RT. That's not exactly the 7 Blocks of Granite and definitively worse than our starting 5.

Of course, that all depends on Aaron still "having it". But if he doesn't then picking Jaxon Smith-Njigba wouldn't change that.

[Maynard13]

13 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Philly lost the Super Bowl because they could not put Mahomes on the ground. Just sayin'.

No they lost because Hurts fumbled the game away.  That opened the door for the Chiefs comeback.  And Mahomes slammed it shut.

[FootballLove]

My thoughts on Ol McDonald Had A Farm is we may see him on more snaps than predicted.  I can see Saleh rotating the big men (+300lbs) to keep the at least a bit fresh for the 4th qtr, especially when it's hot out.

But McD could probably play every snap and be fine. He's what? 250? I'd expect to see him at least on EVERY 3rd and long (any down that's 'long', ie 1st and 20 after a holding call).

I think we're gonna see a lot of the young pass rushers. McD, Jermain, Clemens. Huff could be the odd man out if the other 3 dominate.

On a side note, it seemed to take JD forever to turn his card in. Probably trying to trade down SOME (3-4 spots) with teams that didn't have McD in their sites. Most teams trading up tell the holder of the pick which player they're trading up for. This is common. If said players is off the board, then trade evaporates. So when JD was calling around looking for a trade up partner, I wonder how many potential trade partners said they'd only trade up if McD was still on the board at 15! Forced JD's hand in taking McD at 15, knowing he'd be gone if JD waited.

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

I really find it hard to believe that people think there are many better allocations of assets in the NFL than first round edge rusher. 

I’m starting to think edge is the 5th or 6th most important position on the team

1. QB

2. WR

3.  CB

4. LT

5.  Edge or DT not sure which is higher 

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

I get the historical overview, fish - we've been here together through it, after all. But our wepinz are already elite - better than what Rodgers was working with in GB his MVP seasons:

WR: No, Wilson isn't Davante Adams. But he's a true No. 1 WR who produced at a high level despite dogsh*t QB play last year. Our No. 2 WR - Davis - is a 1A type who is at his best when he's not asked to be the No. 1; he eats against No. 2 coverage, which is what he'll see. Lazard is basically Davis part 2, Hardman is a very good field stretcher and gadget guy with elite speed. I'll take that WR room, overall, ahead of Adams-Lazard-MVS-Cobb (which is what Rodgers was working with in 2021), and so would every GM in the NFL.

TE: Conklin and Uzomah are each better pass-catchers than Robert Tonyan, let alone their No. 2 TE (Marcedes Lewis)

RB: At the high end, and if healthy, Breece Hall is better than Aaron Jones (and that's no slight to Jones who is terrific). AJ Dillon is certainly better than Carter/Bam/Abanikanda, though. Of course, Breece might not be fully recovered, and if so that's a downgrade. But I know you didn't want us taking the third RB in the top 15.

That leaves OL. And yeah, I get the injury concerns at OT. But the 2021 Packers started Elgton Jenkins (a guard) at LT, Jon Runyan Jr. at LG, Lucas Patrick (currently a backup OG on the Bears) at C, Royce Newman at RG, and Billy Turner at RT. That's not exactly the 7 Blocks of Granite and definitively worse than our starting 5.

Of course, that all depends on Aaron still "having it". But if he doesn't then picking Jaxon Smith-Njigba wouldn't change that.

Like I said, we'll see.  

The pick is what it is, so we all better hope you're right, on both counts (that the weapons ARE "elite" as you say, AND That the Edge guy is the bendy freak people say, and a 8+ sack a year guy immediately).  Seems like alot of folks are very much is "best case" thinking re: our O, O depth, O talent and O duabillity....

And before anyone objects to 8 sacks, that total would make him tier for 38th in the NFL last year, I think being 38th is pretty reasonable for a middle 1st round pick.

Personally, I think you very much over-rate most of our Offensive talent (with the exception of Wilson), and if I was a betting man I'd wager McDonalds doesn;t see 5 sacks, much less 8 this year. 

But we'll see.

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Youre correct, you cant win if you cant score.

 Sacks/pressures keep the opposing O off balance, and even keeps them from putting scoring drives together. 

It was a good pick

I suspect our defense is a bit overrated because offenses played conservatively against us last year knowing our offense wasn’t professional-caliber (especially after Breece went down). This year we might see some shoot-outs. Getting to the QB is a requirement.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

I really find it hard to believe that people think there are many better allocations of assets in the NFL than first round edge rusher. 

These are the same guys that liked Kyle Brady draft pick.

[Warfish]

28 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Philly lost the Super Bowl because they could not put Mahomes on the ground. Just sayin'.

Counterargument:  The Chiefs were the #1/#1 Offense in the NFL in 2022.  The Eagles were the #3/#3.

Neither is IN the Super Bowl without that level of Offense.

And the better offense won the game.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Getting to the QB is a requirement.

The Jets were 7th in the NFL in 2022 in Sacks, and 3rd in % of QB Pressures.

Without McDonald.

Pressuring and sacking the QB was not our problem in 2022.  Scoring was.

[fullblast]

43 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I don't understand why people wanted JSN anyway. Wilson/Lazard/Davis/Hardman are already on this roster. I understand you draft for the long term and not short term but the edge rusher is a much more important position to fill out for this team. There's receivers that come along every draft. 

Having a wave of pass rushers is better for this team in the short and long term than having another receiver. 

I want to score 50 points a game damnit.

[Bronx]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No, it wasn't.

Ok Mr. Flip-flopper.

 

[Warfish]

32 minutes ago, Larz said:

“ I wanted a WR. Jets didn’t take one. Jets are dumb”

LOL.

No worries, like our Head Coach, we should all take receipts, and compare notes sometime around Dec. 2023.

[slats]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

We’ll, if you think he is a fix-all savior for this O, then I could see where you might think a second edge #1 after last years edge #1 was best.

Guess we’ll see. If our O finishes top 10 then I guess I was wrong. That’ll be the coolest wrong I’ll have ever been.

I didn’t love the JJ pick last year. He’s more of an edge setter than a pass rushing specialist. This guy is a pass rushing specialist. We’ll also get to see how JSN does with Geno. Like I said, I was originally with you on that pick, but reading up on the player more since has me very happy with their decision to pass on him. 
 
As important as having an effective passing game in the NFL is, it’s also pretty critical to have the ability to shut the other team’s passing game down. A DL of Huff, QW, JFM, and now McDonald on obvious passing downs has scary -in a good way- possibilities. I really don’t see JSN having that sort of effect on the the offense. 

[Beerfish]

 A huge endorsement of edge in this draft is at the same time a total indictment of trading up for jermaine johnson and drafting clemons last year, also in putting a 2nd rounder tender on huff and resigning him.

Drafting an edge?  Fine I have no big issue with adding yet another edge guy to a loaded position category.

Drafting a passing downs rotational only edge at 15 when no WRs and no TEs had been taken is flat out stupid.  Especially when speed rushers who are rotational guys were loaded in this draft.  In round 4 and 5 like 4 or 5 of these type of players went off the board.

I feel the Jets panicked when the last OT went off the board (they should have been totally prepared for this), Douglas was on the phone probably trying feverishly to trade down up to half way or more through our pick time.  Then he deferred to Wormtongue Saleh whispering in his ear as to what to do.

By the end of next year we will be wondering how we could have just passed on the new offensive rookie of the year for rotational 6-7 sack guy who is getting 30% of the D snaps.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Drafting a passing downs rotational only edge at 15 when no WRs and no TEs had been taken is flat out stupid.

Taking a slot receiver or TE at #15 would’ve been flat out smart in your eyes? 
 
Taking an elite level athlete with on the field production to match at the second most important position on the field seems like a better use of a mid-round first to me, especially with Huff and Lawson possibly in their last year here. 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I really find it hard to believe that people think there are many better allocations of assets in the NFL than first round edge rusher. 

Its certainly one of the high value first round selections. But some seem to want to spend every single first rounder we have on Edge. We had the choice of any playmaker we wanted and went with a rotational developmental edge. He better turn out to be a pro bowler to justify the move over a weapon four your 1 or 2 year franchise QB

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

I didn’t love the JJ pick last year.

Alot of folks did.

13 minutes ago, slats said:

He’s more of an edge setter than a pass rushing specialist.

Not what those folks said last year.

13 minutes ago, slats said:

This guy is a pass rushing specialist.

So over/under 8 sacks in 2023?  

Surely a pass rushing specialist athletic freak will get a paltry 8 sacks, right?  Good for a mid-30's type ranking for top sack getters.

13 minutes ago, slats said:

We’ll also get to see how JSN does with Geno. Like I said, I was originally with you on that pick, but reading up on the player more since has me very happy with their decision to pass on him. 
 
As important as having an effective passing game in the NFL is, it’s also pretty critical to have the ability to shut the other team’s passing game down. A DL of Huff, QW, JFM, and now McDonald on obvious passing downs has scary -in a good way- possibilities. I really don’t see JSN having that sort of effect on the the offense. 

And we'll never know now.

What is, is.  McDonald is a Jet. I hope he's as great as so many folks here think.

I've said my peace, no need to beat it to death now.  Forward to Camp.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Maynard13 said:

Hey bet he cant flip burgers and pancackes like you though. ?

Directly into my own mouth FTW!