Our All World Elite defense is so overrated....

[bla bla bla]

What are we ranked in points against? That's really the key stat when all is said and done.

10-6 going into half (thanks to a pick 6) before the offense gives up 7 points the other way has gotta have some impact on the "give a sh*t about this game" factor lol

[Joe W. Namath]

These numbers you are all posting mean nothing.  If the Jets were scoring 30 points a game, the def numbers would look totally different.

For example, we would not be as bad as a rush def and our passing numbers would look worse because teams would actually be trying to score on us.

The teams were are playing are being conservative in almost all 2nd halves because we are not threat to score and win a game.

Stop looking at meaningless stats and use your eyes.  The defense is good.  Its not great and not close to being elite.

 

[jamesr]

Purely as an aside ... there are three teams this year that have scored on a fumble return, an INT return AND a safety.

Before you ask, Dallas and Pittsburgh are the other two.  

[GangGreened]

6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

These numbers you are all posting mean nothing.  If the Jets were scoring 30 points a game, the def numbers would look totally different.

For example, we would not be as bad as a rush def and our passing numbers would look worse because teams would actually be trying to score on us.

The teams were are playing are being conservative in almost all 2nd halves because we are not threat to score and win a game.

Stop looking at meaningless stats and use your eyes.  The defense is good.  Its not great and not close to being elite.

 

4th in DVOA. Matches the eye test 

[jamesr]

13 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

What are we ranked in points against? That's really the key stat when all is said and done.

10-6 going into half (thanks to a pick 6) before the offense gives up 7 points the other way has gotta have some impact on the "give a sh*t about this game" factor lol

We're 16th in points against. Better than the team that is currently sat atop our division, and the team with the best record in the NFL, if we want to cherry pick. Also better than half the teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today.

[DonCorleone]

18 hours ago, Beerfish said:

15th in yards per game

31st in run defense

18th on points allowed

26th in 3rd down defense

Tied for 20th in sacks

Tied for the league lead in roughing the passer penalties

(Wail!) Oh but it is not their fault that our offense is poor!!!!!

'Elite' defenses over come poor offenses, get off the field on 3rd down, stop the run and do not take endless awful penalties.

This is not close to an elite defense, a good defense?   Only at some things, pass defense is pretty good, red zone D is pretty good.

Cleveland has an 'elite' defense and we sure as hell are not in their league.

Come at me bros!  I shall bathe in all of your thumbs down votes as I bathe in the souls of my enemies!

 

They are always on the field while the offense just gives the ball back. They were worn by the 5th game of the season.

[Jetsfan80]

This D won us basically 5 games on their own.  Much like last year when they won us a bunch of games, too.

What a pathetic thread. 

[Plen T]

Yup

EVERYTHING about Saleh the Circus Clown is OVERRATED!

[Asymmetrical]

I don't really get the complaining about the defense. They're not all time good, who cares. They're somewhere between regular good and extremely good. it's not anywhere close to a problem. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, jamesr said:

How has Cleveland's D started looking after all the injuries they've had at QB? Because according to the premise of this thread it shouldn't matter.

QB definitely effects the defense. If that was the point they were wrong. Historic bad QB play just allows for the other team to get better and more opportunities that eventually will lead to losses for the team with the great def.

[jamesr]

10 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

I don't really get the complaining about the defense. They're not all time good, who cares. They're somewhere between regular good and extremely good. it's not anywhere close to a problem. 

I think the original argument is that the D is neither elite nor all-world, as a lot of preseason hype led some to believe.

I would agree that the word "elite" is banded around far too easily, and everyone's definition of it is different, so it becomes a pointless, empty term. I would also say that I feel our defense is in the top 25% / top 8, which is absolutely fine and the rest is just a pissing contest about whether your 3rd down conversion rate us 2% better than someone else's, or that sacks mean more than INTs or fumbles or pressures etc etc.

Our D is one that you can win a lot of games with. It is good enough to get you to where you want to be. But ... well, we all know the rest by now.   

[BornJetsFan1983]

46 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This D won us basically 5 games on their own.  Much like last year when they won us a bunch of games, too.

What a pathetic thread. 

Yeah and people complaining about that. It is not normal for a def to win any games they are supposed to finish a game or get that one stop. Our guy literally win games.

 

[Wit]

It’s like asking the defense to basically play and entire game and try and win.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Hex]

Jets allowed more than 23 points (average score) once before the Chargers game, when they gave up. They were elite-level defense before they finally realized the offense wasn't getting better and stopped trying. As @Jetsfan80 explained above too, they won multiple games for the team in a league where offense wins games 99% of the time. I wouldn't expect the strongest man on earth to hold the weight of the world.

[JetPotato]

I swear some of you could be waterboarded and you'd complain that the chair needs some more lumbar support.

[batman10023]

17 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

You can bet the Falcons will march right down the field on their 1st or 2nd drive and score.  That is a given.

remind me again how many times they have done that in the last month?

[batman10023]

17 hours ago, slimjasi said:

 

Interesting theory

FYI, the Jets have given up 3 total points on opening drives in the last 5 games, and those 3 points came off of a Xavier Gipson fumble on the opening kickoff in Buffalo. 

 

it's not a theory.  it's just wrong. 

they basically have not given up any points to start a game in over a month.  

[Alka]

20 hours ago, Beerfish said:

31st in run defense

This is the most disappointing statistic to me.  I think Rex Ryan had the defense in the top 5 in run defense just about every year he was the head coach of the Jets.  At least that is what their identity was.  

Our team loves the edge rushers, but the heart of the defense is the middle up front and the inside linebackers.  But we are a 4-3 defense, so we really don't have the middle linebackers that are stout.  I think Mosely is our middle linebacker, and he was forced to lose the weight so that he can do better in coverage.

[Asymmetrical]

16 minutes ago, Alka said:

This is the most disappointing statistic to me.  I think Rex Ryan had the defense in the top 5 in run defense just about every year he was the head coach of the Jets.  At least that is what their identity was.  

Our team loves the edge rushers, but the heart of the defense is the middle up front and the inside linebackers.  But we are a 4-3 defense, so we really don't have the middle linebackers that are stout.  I think Mosely is our middle linebacker, and he was forced to lose the weight so that he can do better in coverage.

Between 2009-2018 it seemed like we were top 5 in run defense every year and had a bunch of slugs on the edge. There's a lot to complain about with the current roster construction but probably the best thing they've done is load up on the edge. I think some of the yardage statistics are inflated by the fact that teams basically only have to score 8+ points and then can just run all day bc of the offense. I've noticed a little falloff after the Woods injury too but with a normal offense they'd be good enough in that dept.

[Guilhermezmc]

They can't tackle

[jamesr]

37 minutes ago, Alka said:

This is the most disappointing statistic to me.  I think Rex Ryan had the defense in the top 5 in run defense just about every year he was the head coach of the Jets.  At least that is what their identity was.  

Our team loves the edge rushers, but the heart of the defense is the middle up front and the inside linebackers.  But we are a 4-3 defense, so we really don't have the middle linebackers that are stout.  I think Mosely is our middle linebacker, and he was forced to lose the weight so that he can do better in coverage.

The game is geared more and more towards passing these days. Stopping the run is all well and good, but if the opponent can pass all over you it isn't worth much.

How many times did we complain that Rex's defenses couldn't get off the field on 3rd down, and got killed by TEs and RBs running wheel routes? Because the LBs were slow as molasses. But hey, we were great against the run.   

[GreenFish]

We are 2nd to last in time of possession because the offense cant string a couple good plays together.

We are top 5 in passing yards per attempt and passer rating against. Middle of the pack in rushing yards per attempt. Unfortunately, other teams offenses get many attempts since we go 3 and out all the time.

Top 10 in takeaways as well.

We don't need the defense to be all world. They are already a very good defense. That’s sufficient. We need the offense to performance.

[FootballLove]

No defense has ever given their offense 'extra' possessions, no matter how many turn overs they generate.

Both teams will ALWAYS have the same number of drives.

Now, a good D can limit the damage the other Offense does on any particular drive, sack the QB, force a 3 and out, pick off a pass, etc.

But both teams will have the same number of drives, +/- one drive depending on which teams wins the opening coin toss.

Special Teams can change the number of drives, for example if they recover a fumbled punt. But Defenses can't.

[Dcronin]

21 hours ago, Larz said:

No one ever said it was all world elite. If you can’t comprehend how the worst offense in NFL history impacts the defense that’s a you problem not a me problem lol 

Are you crazy? One of the Jets D players compared it to the '85 Bears, LOL. Our defense sucks!

[GreenFish]

2 hours ago, Asymmetrical said:

I don't really get the complaining about the defense. They're not all time good, who cares. They're somewhere between regular good and extremely good. it's not anywhere close to a problem. 

I don't understand it as well.

Taking the defense from very good to all world wins us maybe 1 or 2 more games over the course of a year. We’d end the season at 7-10 instead of say 5-12. Yey!!!!

With just an average offense instead historically bad, we’d be in the playoffs.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Hex said:

Jets allowed more than 23 points (average score) once before the Chargers game, when they gave up. They were elite-level defense before they finally realized the offense wasn't getting better and stopped trying. As @Jetsfan80 explained above too, they won multiple games for the team in a league where offense wins games 99% of the time. I wouldn't expect the strongest man on earth to hold the weight of the world.

Beerfish was awful quiet when the D was forcing 3+ turnovers and/or pitching 2nd half shutouts like 5x in the first half of the season.

Predictably he shows up to squawk now when the D isn’t playing perfect ball.

[Biggs]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This D won us basically 5 games on their own.  Much like last year when they won us a bunch of games, too.

What a pathetic thread. 

The Jets have 4 wins.  

[GangGreened]

33 minutes ago, Dcronin said:

Are you crazy? One of the Jets D players compared it to the '85 Bears, LOL. Our defense sucks!

Lol yes the defense that’s ranked top 5 in DVOA “sucks”

I think you’re the crazy one with this take. Anyone that took DJ Reeds 85 Bears comment seriously deserves to be let down.

[jamesr]

A few more random stats about our overrated D ...

• Tied for third in opponent yards per play
• Third in opponent first downs per play
• Sixth in red zone TD percentage
• Thirty-first in opposing team time of possession
• Thirty-second in opposing team % of run plays (a.k.a. first on opposing team % of pass plays)

A very effective defense ... that is on the field too damned much!

[Biggs]

4 hours ago, jamesr said:

Did you look at our points against in first vs second half? I gave up tracking after a bit but in our first 6 games we gave up 88 points in the first half and 31 in the second half. That is more points in Q1 AND Q2 than we gave up in H2. One TD against in 6 second halves of football.

 

Teams don’t need points in the second half when they play us.  
 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Jets have 4 wins.  

Totally disregards my point then

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Totally disregards my point then

You didn’t mention Zach.  I didn’t know it was you.  Never mind.

[T0mShane]

Let’s check in on the Saints and @Beerfish‘s bubby Derek Carr….OH NO

 

[jamesr]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Teams don’t need points in the second half when they play us.  
 

Buffalo did in Week 1. Scored 3, lost by 6 in OT

Dallas did not in Week 2. Scored 12, won by 20

Patsies did in Week 3. Scored 5, won by 5 (NOTE - 2 of those were a safety on the offense)

KC did in Week 4. Scored 3, won by 3

Denver did in Week 5. Scored 8, lost by 10

Philly did in Week 6. Scored 0, lost by 6

 

 

 

 

[Claymation]

5 hours ago, jamesr said:

How has Cleveland's D started looking after all the injuries they've had at QB? Because according to the premise of this thread it shouldn't matter.

Well the Browns have an average TOP of 33:18 per game this season, and 30:58 the last 3 games. Their offense is actually controlling the ball.

The Jets have no rushing attack, and this CS have abandoned it. For the season they averaged 93 yards per game, in the last 3 games 67 yards.

Cleveland has 33 rushing attempts per game, the Jets 20. Last 3 games for the Jets 16. 

This BS falls squarely on Saleh, he should speak to Hackett and say we need 25 rushing plays every effen game.