Woody Has To SHT Or Get Off The Pot

[Barry McCockinner]

It's already become painfully obvious that we're getting second rate coaching hires and front office personnel are fleeing like rats on a sinking ship. Not many want to sign up for a lame duck season.

If you don't think free agents are going to consider that a negative too you're fooling yourself. I'm not saying it will be the only factor but it will be a consideration for a lot of guys. We're taking what should be a FA destination during the Rodgers window and making it more difficult on ourselves.

I personally think Saleh is in over his head at HC but really think Woody needs to extend him or fire him. I have more faith in JD than most but feel the same applies for the same reasons.

I fear that continuing the lame duck year will end up shooting us in the foot and wasting any chances of the Rodgers window striking gold. BTW, a strong experienced head coach is there for the taking in vrabel.

[Jetsfan80]

J!

[Barry McCockinner]

[Fantasy Island]

59 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's already become painfully obvious that we're getting second rate coaching hires and front office personnel are fleeing like rats on a sinking ship. Not many want to sign up for a lame duck season.

If you don't think free agents are going to consider that a negative too you're fooling yourself. I'm not saying it will be the only factor but it will be a consideration for a lot of guys. We're taking what should be a FA destination during the Rodgers window and making it more difficult on ourselves.

I personally think Saleh is in over his head at HC but really think Woody needs to extend him or fire him. I have more faith in JD than most but feel the same applies for the same reasons.

I fear that continuing the lame duck year will end up shooting us in the foot and wasting any chances of the Rodgers window striking gold. BTW, a strong experienced head coach is there for the taking in vrabel.

No extension , just fire him.  Hire Vrabel and let him run the show.  

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

No extension , just fire him.  Hire Vrabel and let him run the show.  

Fine by me but choose one or the other. 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Vrabel is so overrated around these parts. What has he accomplished? Hes a mediocre coach at best. He coached in possibly the weakest division in the nfl. Hes had an offense rank in the top 10 one time in 6 years. Ditto for his defense (1 time in 6 years)  And has a losing record in the playoffs. 

I just don’t understand why everyone here loves vrabel. The titans were the definition of “meh” his entire 6 years as a coach 

[Barry McCockinner]

53 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Vrabel is so overrated around these parts. What has he accomplished? Hes a mediocre coach at best. He coached in possibly the weakest division in the nfl. Hes had an offense rank in the top 10 one time in 6 years. Ditto for his defense (1 time in 6 years)  And has a losing record in the playoffs. 

I just don’t understand why everyone here loves vrabel. The titans were the definition of “meh” his entire 6 years as a coach 

He's a proven winning HC who did so without riding the coat tails of some Hof qb. Guy runs a tight ship. His teams always seem well prepared and he commands the in game stuff well.

Overall winning record.

4 of 6 seasons with winning records

3 playoff seasons with two division titles.

Should we do Saleh next?

 

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's already become painfully obvious that we're getting second rate coaching hires and front office personnel are fleeing like rats on a sinking ship. Not many want to sign up for a lame duck season.

If you don't think free agents are going to consider that a negative too you're fooling yourself. I'm not saying it will be the only factor but it will be a consideration for a lot of guys. We're taking what should be a FA destination during the Rodgers window and making it more difficult on ourselves.

I personally think Saleh is in over his head at HC but really think Woody needs to extend him or fire him. I have more faith in JD than most but feel the same applies for the same reasons.

I fear that continuing the lame duck year will end up shooting us in the foot and wasting any chances of the Rodgers window striking gold. BTW, a strong experienced head coach is there for the taking in vrabel.

Both saleh and Douglas have two years remaining.  Maybe woody needs to separate the two.  Extend Douglas and not saleh this season.  That at least gives any in coming coaches a sense of front office stability.  It’s possible for assistants to stay if the hc gets canned.  Schitty stayed after mangini was launched.

[section314]

7 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's already become painfully obvious that we're getting second rate coaching hires and front office personnel are fleeing like rats on a sinking ship. Not many want to sign up for a lame duck season.

If you don't think free agents are going to consider that a negative too you're fooling yourself. I'm not saying it will be the only factor but it will be a consideration for a lot of guys. We're taking what should be a FA destination during the Rodgers window and making it more difficult on ourselves.

I personally think Saleh is in over his head at HC but really think Woody needs to extend him or fire him. I have more faith in JD than most but feel the same applies for the same reasons.

I fear that continuing the lame duck year will end up shooting us in the foot and wasting any chances of the Rodgers window striking gold. BTW, a strong experienced head coach is there for the taking in vrabel.

Great. I agree on JD. I would have made 5 calls to Frank Reich already.

[Bugg]

7 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

"Is this gonna be a long conversation, 'cause I got a tee time at a primo country club with Joey B in 45 minutes." 

[JetPotato]

If you extend Douglas, he's going to hire Siriani after the Eagles fire him next year. 

[mrcoops]

59 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Both saleh and Douglas have two years remaining.  Maybe woody needs to separate the two.  Extend Douglas and not saleh this season.  That at least gives any in coming coaches a sense of front office stability.  It’s possible for assistants to stay if the hc gets canned.  Schitty stayed after mangini was launched.

You're right - I thought both Saleh and Douglas were lame ducks in their final years, but they do indeed each have two years remaining. Not that it changes much, as they both have this year to prove themselves or they will most likely be gone. 

Guys with options - like Hogan, Alexander and possibly Manuel - are looking for exits, as they can see the writing on the wall.  If the team doesn't win - and win big - this year, it'll be a mass clearout after the 2024 season, and that doesn't look good on anyone's record.

[The Crusher]

@Pac

[bonkertons]

Again I just don't see how it's possible.  Woody is committed to Rodgers for another year, and Rodgers is committed to Hackett.  I don't see a new HC taking a job where they can't bring in their own staff.

 

I don't think you have to extend Saleh either.  Let this year play out.  If they succeed, then you can extend him and JD.  If not, you clean house.  New GM, new HC, and they draft a new QB.  Rodgers, Saleh, Hackett and JD are all tied together at this point.  I think if you fire one, you'll have to move on from all of them.  

 

Either way I think a handful of the coaches people want right now will still be available next offseason.  Next year could even be a better crop, considering you'll have this same group, potentially as well as Ben Johnson, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin.  I think it makes sense to wait.  See what this team can actually do with Rodgers on the field.  Do whatever you can to fix the OL and add another high-end weapon.  If it still doesn't work out, cut bait and go after one of the top candidates next year.  I know there's the "who would want to coach here?" narrative, but basic math should tell us we'll have a shot just based on the sheer quantity of names out there. 

[Trotter]

If rodgers stays healthy I think we see a completely different team this year and that will prob reflect positively on saleh

that is great short term but the real decision and where you need someone who is smart is what do you do with saleh then and can he lead a team with a younger unproven qb if that is who follows rodgers?

I’ll prob be dead so I won’t care but looking out for you younger guys

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, Trotter said:

If rodgers stays healthy I think we see a completely different team this year and that will prob reflect positively on saleh

that is great short term but the real decision and where you need someone who is smart is what do you do with saleh then and can he lead a team with a younger unproven qb if that is who follows rodgers?

I’ll prob be dead so I won’t care but looking out for you younger guys

If I had balls, I'd be king!

  - The Queen

       

[UntouchableCrew]

25 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Again I just don't see how it's possible.  Woody is committed to Rodgers for another year, and Rodgers is committed to Hackett.  I don't see a new HC taking a job where they can't bring in their own staff.

 

 

Pretty much this. Current situation is a disaster but we’re boxed into it because of Rodgers.

[Warfish]

27 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Woody is committed to Rodgers for another year, and Rodgers is committed to Hackett.  I don't see a new HC taking a job where they can't bring in their own staff.

Best comment in the thread.

The reality is nothing can possibly happen now.  We are stuck, like it or not, with Aaron Rodgers in 2024.  That means we're stuck with Hackett and the Friends of ARod Club too.  So knowing that, there is no "bring in another Head Coach" or the like.  It's Saleh (and JD) and that's that.

No one has to like it, I certainly don't, but we do have to accept it.  Cause it ain't changing.

[Augustiniak]

29 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Again I just don't see how it's possible.  Woody is committed to Rodgers for another year, and Rodgers is committed to Hackett.  I don't see a new HC taking a job where they can't bring in their own staff.

 

I don't think you have to extend Saleh either.  Let this year play out.  If they succeed, then you can extend him and JD.  If not, you clean house.  New GM, new HC, and they draft a new QB.  Rodgers, Saleh, Hackett and JD are all tied together at this point.  I think if you fire one, you'll have to move on from all of them.  

 

Either way I think a handful of the coaches people want right now will still be available next offseason.  Next year could even be a better crop, considering you'll have this same group, potentially as well as Ben Johnson, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin.  I think it makes sense to wait.  See what this team can actually do with Rodgers on the field.  Do whatever you can to fix the OL and add another high-end weapon.  If it still doesn't work out, cut bait and go after one of the top candidates next year.  I know there's the "who would want to coach here?" narrative, but basic math should tell us we'll have a shot just based on the sheer quantity of names out there. 

The question is, what happens if the jets go 9-8 or 10-7 and lose in the wild card round?  Saleh will feel vindicated, jd will pump out his chest and they would have accomplished nothing except get rid of the playoff drought.  Yet they still need a qb.  If that happens both guys stay and jd picks another qb.  

[bonkertons]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The question is, what happens if the jets go 9-8 or 10-7 and lose in the wild card round?  Saleh will feel vindicated, jd will pump out his chest and they would have accomplished nothing except get rid of the playoff drought.  Yet they still need a qb.  If that happens both guys stay and jd picks another qb.  

I think that's a "we'll cross that bridge when the time comes" type situation.  It really depends on how things play out.  If we start off hot and then fall off a cliff, barely making the playoffs and then getting bounced immediately, I can see them all getting the axe.  If we start off poorly and then get hot, having a good showing against a top seed in the 1st round, maybe Woody will feel like they finally put it together and decide to keep them around for another year at least(assuming Rodgers wants to play another year).

 

If we're 9-8 or 10-7 and Rodgers looks really good, then I think we'll run it back.  If we make it to 9-8 or 10-7 in spite of Rodgers, and it's clear that he's just not the same guy, then yeah I think they all probably get canned...including Rodgers.  It really all depends on how it plays out.  The available coaching pool next summer would justify firing a 9-8 coach IMO, especially considering what the expectations will be for this team, and if you fire your coach you might as well replace your GM as well.  Either way I don't think Woody will be trapped with this staff if that's how things play out.  

[bicketybam]

Saleh has a couple of things he really needs to improve up on. We know this. But how can you judge the guy when he was handed Zach Wilson and was basically forced to start him for his entire time here. I've read dozens of posts saying that Woody/JD have forced Wilson on Saleh and you would have to assume that would be the case is any other coach was here instead of Saleh the last 3 years. Be me the coach that is winning more games with Zach Wilson than Saleh did. Would Vrabel have had a better record? Mike McCarthy? I need to see Saleh coach this team with a functional QB before I say he's a dog sh*t coach.

[Mo Lew]

15 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Saleh has a couple of things he really needs to improve up on. We know this. But how can you judge the guy when he was handed Zach Wilson and was basically forced to start him for his entire time here. I've read dozens of posts saying that Woody/JD have forced Wilson on Saleh and you would have to assume that would be the case is any other coach was here instead of Saleh the last 3 years. Be me the coach that is winning more games with Zach Wilson than Saleh did. Would Vrabel have had a better record? Mike McCarthy? I need to see Saleh coach this team with a functional QB before I say he's a dog sh*t coach.

[Larz]

You don’t just fire a head coach, you fire most of the staff. There might be a holdover or two but putting all those guys out of work after all the open jobs have been filled would be the final nail in the coffin for woody.  
 

The jets job is already considered trash but adding scumbag that can be influenced to fire an entire staff after a tweet makes him the worst owner in all of North American sports. 
 

it would be catastrophic to do this now 

 

the ship has sailed. 
 

vrabel , Pete and cheater are unemployed for a reason.  
 

y’all need to just move on 

[Warfish]

31 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

But how can you judge the guy when he was handed Zach Wilson and was basically forced to start him for his entire time here.

By judging all his other coaching and decisions separate from Zach Wilson playing QB.

[viffer]

8 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

...

I just don’t understand why everyone here loves vrabel. The titans were the definition of “meh” his entire 6 years as a coach 

For us, "meh" would be an improvement...

[Barry McCockinner]

8 minutes ago, Larz said:

You don’t just fire a head coach, you fire most of the staff. There might be a holdover or two but putting all those guys out of work after all the open jobs have been filled would be the final nail in the coffin for woody.  
 

The jets job is already considered trash but adding scumbag that can be influenced to fire an entire staff after a tweet makes him the worst owner in all of North American sports. 
 

it would be catastrophic to do this now 

 

the ship has sailed. 
 

vrabel , Pete and cheater are unemployed for a reason.  
 

y’all need to just move on 

talk about missing the point.

[bicketybam]

I personally think Saleh is in over his head at HC but really think Woody needs to extend him or fire him. I have more faith in JD than most but feel the same applies for the same reasons.

talk about missing the point.

What point did he miss? Firing them at this point in time would be catastrophic. It's not even an option. So basically you are calling in Woody to extend them, correct?

[Barry McCockinner]

11 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

What point did he miss? Firing them at this point in time would be catastrophic. It's not even an option. So basically you are calling in Woody to extend them, correct?

 

 

 

 

 

The point is Woody needs to choose one or the other because by not choosing he puts us at a disadvantage in many ways including the upcoming FA period where the Jets should be a destination because of Rodgers but as it is may be avoided. Choosing to put yourself at a disadvantage when building for a short term window with an old veteran QB is ridiculous.

Some guys are going to prioritize stability in FA and want to go somewhere where they know the coaching staff is going to be in place for at least a few years.

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Again I just don't see how it's possible.  Woody is committed to Rodgers for another year, and Rodgers is committed to Hackett.  I don't see a new HC taking a job where they can't bring in their own staff.

 

I don't think you have to extend Saleh either.  Let this year play out.  If they succeed, then you can extend him and JD.  If not, you clean house.  New GM, new HC, and they draft a new QB.  Rodgers, Saleh, Hackett and JD are all tied together at this point.  I think if you fire one, you'll have to move on from all of them.  

 

Either way I think a handful of the coaches people want right now will still be available next offseason.  Next year could even be a better crop, considering you'll have this same group, potentially as well as Ben Johnson, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin.  I think it makes sense to wait.  See what this team can actually do with Rodgers on the field.  Do whatever you can to fix the OL and add another high-end weapon.  If it still doesn't work out, cut bait and go after one of the top candidates next year.  I know there's the "who would want to coach here?" narrative, but basic math should tell us we'll have a shot just based on the sheer quantity of names out there. 

And if you do fire Saleh, Vrabel or any respectable HC is not coming into a complete and utter sh*t show where he is bending the knee to Aaron Rodgers while reporting to Woody Johnson.  The Jets have no choice, other than to see this through and hope that Rodgers returns to form.  There is literally, no other choice and if they fail next season, you clean house, start over and pray that Woody Johnson does right by accident. 

[varjet]

I am not feeling that JD and Saleh work without Rodgers.   Baring some miracle where Aaron Rodgers in 2024 looks like Superman and he will likely not be worth the $50mm cap hit in 2025 and paying him an extra $37.5mm.  We would likely want to cut our losses.

We have seen what JD/Saleh 1.0 brought us before Aaron Rodgers.  The question is whether we basically "fire them and rehire them" for the Jets' Next Post AR8 Phase.   Maybe that is a good idea.   Maybe Woody+ decides that they are the right guys to start over with, from scratch.  New contracts that basically look like first time contracts, new QB search, new approach to coaching staff.   Saleh had an OK idea with MLF/Knapp/Darnold or someone else (and maybe Jamar Chase, Penei, etc.).   We were better off with Baker Mayfield last year.  

But for me, I would rather go with Vrabel on a 5 year contract, a new GM, and an offensive OC/Co-HC.  I don't know who that offensive guy is.  

Go with a WCO on offense, and bring back the 3-4 defense, permanently.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I really wonder if all the vibes would actually change here if they did have a good season overall and made the playoffs.

They anger and hate feels so strong it's weird to think it would be any other way lol.

 

 

[slimjasi]

Barry nailed it - fire or extend. You’ve only got two choices. 
 

But, we’re the Jets, so we do neither. 

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

I really wonder if all the vibes would actually change here if they did have a good season overall and made the playoffs.

They anger and hate feels so strong it's weird to think it would be any other way lol.

 

 

It always changes at the first sign of success. Go back and look at the threads from 2022 when we were 7-4: People were talking about Winning a SB. Go back and look at the threads from this past season after we edged the Giants to get to 4-3: People were talking about Saleh getting COTY honors if he actually made the playoffs without Aaron Rodgers.
 

this place is DYING for a winner to smile about. The anger comes from constantly being disappointed. 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

You don’t just fire a head coach, you fire most of the staff. There might be a holdover or two but putting all those guys out of work after all the open jobs have been filled would be the final nail in the coffin for woody.  
 

The jets job is already considered trash but adding scumbag that can be influenced to fire an entire staff after a tweet makes him the worst owner in all of North American sports. 
 

it would be catastrophic to do this now 

 

the ship has sailed. 
 

vrabel , Pete and cheater are unemployed for a reason.  
 

y’all need to just move on 

They should have canned on Black Monday, but I agree that it’s probably too late now. 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

It always changes at the first sign of success. Go back and look at the threads from 2022 when we were 7-4: People were talking about Winning a SB. Go back and look at the threads from this past season after we edged the Giants to get to 4-3: People were talking about Saleh getting COTY honors if he actually made the playoffs without Aaron Rodgers.
 

this place is DYING for a winner to smile about. The anger comes from constantly being disappointed. 

The problem with this team’s construct is that few here believes that Rodgers can really be effective beyond this season.  I’d be surprised if he plays 12 games this year.  Who starts the other 5 if that’s the case?  And rodgers is likely one bad injury away from retirement.  That could happen week 5.  What are the odds they draft even a pratt as qb to possibly come in and give the team hope?  

As long as douglas and saleh are here, this team’s success will be dictated by imported veteran qbs b/c these guys don’t have the patience or job security to endure another rookie qb like wilson again.