Hop on the Bowers train or get left in the dust

[DoubleDown]

This team needs OTs and WRs long term. They also have two young developing prospects at TE under contract for at least two more seasons.

Bowers would be a luxury pick. Take the blue chip OT or WR when you have the opportunity. 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

This team needs OTs and WRs long term. They also have two young developing prospects at TE under contract for at least two more seasons.

Bowers would be a luxury pick. Take the blue chip OT or WR when you have the opportunity. 

I think the biggest issue with jd taking bowers, especially with no trade back and getting another day 2 pick, is that he’s under fire as a gm for his failure to fix the OL.  If you believe that people act with self preservation objectives, then he’d really be risking his job even more if he took bowers at 10, as opposed to say, 15.  If he traded back, got a 2nd rounder and then took bowers at 15, that’s still risky.  Taking him at 10 is even worse, even though i believe in bowers as a player.

increasingly, I think rome is plan A, he’s a best case outcome.  If not, then i believe there will be teams wanting to jump to 10 to take either a qb or their favorite OT.  I do believe the jets will have opportunities to trade back.  

[GangGreeninBetween]

11 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

This team needs OTs and WRs long term. They also have two young developing prospects at TE under contract for at least two more seasons.

Bowers would be a luxury pick. Take the blue chip OT or WR when you have the opportunity. 

Agreed, someone mentioned before an 800 yard and 8 TD statline which would be nice but how often does a rookie TE ever reach those numbers? LaPorta did last year but he was kind of an outlier, plus Lions offense has lots of talented players that took the coverages off of him. And does Rodgers even have a track record or really throwing to TE's? I can't think of too many besides like Finley.

[Ghost]

29 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

It’s not THAT simple though, because you need the board to fall in a way that a team wants to move up. Douglas historically trades up, not down. Maybe if a QB falls to 10 some teams will come calling.

Teams trade up for other positions too. We traded up for AVT and Revis. 
 

Similarly, Eagles traded up two spots to get to 10 to draft Devonta Smith. Ironically that trade was done with the Cowboys. Cowboys drafted Parsons at 12 and got a 3rd in return. 

[Gastineau Lives]

4 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

This team needs OTs and WRs long term. They also have two young developing prospects at TE under contract for at least two more seasons.

Bowers would be a luxury pick. Take the blue chip OT or WR when you have the opportunity. 

Luxury pick that makes your whole offense better for at least five years. How luxurious!

Nothing compared to that Kalgon take me away feeling you get from seven backup tackles but still.

[Jethead]

Rodgers will figure out what to do if Bowers is one of his options. That's the least of issues.

[jNYC1]

I personally don't understand the fascination with Bowers in the current 2 year window...  The biggest needs over the next 2 years are WR/OL.  Not sure that is debatable if viewed through the lens of a 2 year window.

As for Bowers... it feels like a big risk that has to hit big in order to payoff.  Need Bowers to be a Top 7 tight end out of the gate.  A WR or OL only has to be potential starter level (WR3 or Swing Tackle) in first year.

As for those that think Bower is a no brainer... there's a lot of hopeful thinking...

• First round TEs have largely disappointed but Bowers is different.
• Do it all tight ends are rare.  Of course Bowers can't play in-line but don't worry about that.
• TEs typically take 2-3 years to adjust the NFL, but last year 2 TEs came in and produced decent stats so that trend is irrelevant.
• Great production from a rookie TE is lower than great production from a 2nd round WR but a rookie TEs will put the Jets over the top.
• Bowers was a mismatch nightmare in college which doesn't always translate, but Bowers is guaranteed to be a mismatch nightmare in the NFL even if the talent all over the field is faster, stronger, and better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gastineau Lives]

11 hours ago, jNYC1 said:

I personally don't understand the fascination with Bowers in the current 2 year window...  The biggest needs over the next 2 years are WR/OL.  Not sure that is debatable if viewed through the lens of a 2 year window.

As for Bowers... it feels like a big risk that has to hit big in order to payoff.  Need Bowers to be a Top 7 tight end out of the gate.  A WR or OL only has to be potential starter level (WR3 or Swing Tackle) in first year.

As for those that think Bower is a no brainer... there's a lot of hopeful thinking...

• First round TEs have largely disappointed but Bowers is different.
• Do it all tight ends are rare.  Of course Bowers can't play in-line but don't worry about that.
• TEs typically take 2-3 years to adjust the NFL, but last year 2 TEs came in and produced decent stats so that trend is irrelevant.
• Great production from a rookie TE is lower than great production from a 2nd round WR but a rookie TEs will put the Jets over the top.
• Bowers was a mismatch nightmare in college which doesn't always translate, but Bowers is guaranteed to be a mismatch nightmare in the NFL even if the talent all over the field is faster, stronger, and better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re playing with semi truths here

[TuscanyTile2]

20 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

This team needs OTs and WRs long term. They also have two young developing prospects at TE under contract for at least two more seasons.

Bowers would be a luxury pick. Take the blue chip OT or WR when you have the opportunity. 

The only counter I'd give is that if JD sees Bowers as "generational", then I'd see nothing wrong with taking him as our weapon #2 as a receiver.  And the idea that you can have a lot of talent on the field at the same time is pretty tempting (Bowers, GW and Mike Williams).  Plus, longer-term, it's probably easier to replace a WR2 than it is to acquire a top TE.

I'm not sold on Bowers though but I'll trust JD.

[ChewyandtheJets]

Terrible value at the TE position.  If you take a LT or WR and they reach the top end of their position  (top 20 in the league) you pay them in the range of $7-9 million when their market value is over $20 million.  For a TE you pay the same but it is pretty much full market value if they reach this level of play.  It's amazing how many mock drafts have the Jets making this boneheaded move -  too many to be a coincidence.  Guess their research shows making the Jets look foolish gets a lot of clicks and attention.  No way they all think Joe Douglas is such a dope.      

[Jethead]

Value is 2nd order issue. Primary is to win football games. If the Jets think Bowers is part of a winning formula I'm good.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, ChewyandtheJets said:

Terrible value at the TE position.  If you take a LT or WR and they reach the top end of their position  (top 20 in the league) you pay them in the range of $7-9 million when their market value is over $20 million.  For a TE you pay the same but it is pretty much full market value if they reach this level of play.  It's amazing how many mock drafts have the Jets making this boneheaded move -  too many to be a coincidence.  Guess their research shows making the Jets look foolish gets a lot of clicks and attention.  No way they all think Joe Douglas is such a dope.      

Tell that to the Niners, Chiefs, Lions, Ravens, Bills.

The Chiefs and Lions basically didn’t even have a second receiver (the chiefs barely had an FIRST receiver) and the Chiefs started a left tackle that hasn’t even been signed by anyone else yet.

This perceived value argument is 2018 sh*t.

Im taking a chance that the player is what most people think he is. If he is, then our offense becomes borderline unguardable. 

[Augustiniak]

39 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Value is 2nd order issue. Primary is to win football games. If the Jets think Bowers is part of a winning formula I'm good.

It’s funny, douglas definitely has prioritized positional value in the first rounds of his drafts.  Yet, his two biggest fails are at qb and OT.  So on the one hand, taking another LT in round 1 makes perfect sense, if the guy isn’t good who cares.  If bowers is good most here will stop whining i think.  

[rbstern]

14 hours ago, jNYC1 said:

I personally don't understand the fascination with Bowers in the current 2 year window...  The biggest needs over the next 2 years are WR/OL.  Not sure that is debatable if viewed through the lens of a 2 year window.

As for Bowers... it feels like a big risk that has to hit big in order to payoff.  Need Bowers to be a Top 7 tight end out of the gate.  A WR or OL only has to be potential starter level (WR3 or Swing Tackle) in first year.

As for those that think Bower is a no brainer... there's a lot of hopeful thinking...

• First round TEs have largely disappointed but Bowers is different.
• Do it all tight ends are rare.  Of course Bowers can't play in-line but don't worry about that.
• TEs typically take 2-3 years to adjust the NFL, but last year 2 TEs came in and produced decent stats so that trend is irrelevant.
• Great production from a rookie TE is lower than great production from a 2nd round WR but a rookie TEs will put the Jets over the top.
• Bowers was a mismatch nightmare in college which doesn't always translate, but Bowers is guaranteed to be a mismatch nightmare in the NFL even if the talent all over the field is faster, stronger, and better.

First round TEs have largely disappointed but Bowers is different.

He is different.  Outstanding productivity and versatility at the highest level of college football, from the moment he stepped on the field as a freshman, with no drop-off throughout his entire three years at UGA.

Do it all tight ends are rare.  Of course Bowers can't play in-line but don't worry about that.

Just because he lines up all over the place because he can do things other TEs can't doesn't mean he isn't good in-line.  NOTHING in his college tape says otherwise.

TEs typically take 2-3 years to adjust the NFL, but last year 2 TEs came in and produced decent stats so that trend is irrelevant.

Nearly all NFL rookies go through learning adjustments to improve their performance.  First rounders flash based purely on talent, but they inevitably improve over time, unless they area a bust.  It's not unique to the TE position.

Great production from a rookie TE is lower than great production from a 2nd round WR but a rookie TEs will put the Jets over the top.

Forget the numbers.  The versatility Bowers brings is enough to change the way a defense plays, and that may skyrocket other skill player stats.  Barring QB injury, if Bowsers is a Jet, Garrett Wilson will have his best year yet.  Mike Williams will similarly benefit, as will Breece Hall.  Opposing linebackers will be leaning back on their heels out of concern for getting beat by a quick, fast TE who runs great routes.  Mismatches will pop up everywhere.  That's why Bowers has so much upside.

Bowers was a mismatch nightmare in college which doesn't always translate, but Bowers is guaranteed to be a mismatch nightmare in the NFL even if the talent all over the field is faster, stronger, and better.

Except Bowers was doing that to elite college guys now playing in the NFL, or who will be draft into the NFL this year or in future years.  He's already proven himself against NFL-caliber talent.

[playtowinthegame]

Draft Brock Bowers! 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Tanny has Bowers going to Miami at 22nd in his mock which seems to be fair value. I would be excited as well if the Jets got him in the 20s. But top 10 is another ball game. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Tanny has Bowers going to Miami at 22nd in his mock which seems to be fair value. I would be excited as well if the Jets got him in the 20s. But top 10 is another ball game. 

That is not a team i want to get him. 

[chirorob]

4 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Tanny has Bowers going to Miami at 22nd in his mock which seems to be fair value. I would be excited as well if the Jets got him in the 20s. But top 10 is another ball game. 

Bowers added into that offense....

Please no

[slimjasi]

On 3/31/2024 at 11:00 AM, DoubleDown said:

This team needs OTs and WRs long term. They also have two young developing prospects at TE under contract for at least two more seasons.

Bowers would be a luxury pick. Take the blue chip OT or WR when you have the opportunity. 

All of this 

[RockyM]

We should be more worried about how quickly Hackett ruins him if we do take him...

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Tanny has Bowers going to Miami at 22nd in his mock which seems to be fair value. I would be excited as well if the Jets got him in the 20s. But top 10 is another ball game. 

If he’s great at 22 he’s great twelve spots sooner.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I’m down for drafting Bowers if we trade back a few spots and net a 2nd rounder out of it

Have to hope a team gets desperate and wants to vault up to #10 for Penix Jr or Nix

Absolutely have to get a starting caliber OT prospect somewhere in this loaded class though 

Would be a pity not to.

If they want to go all in for MHJ or Nabers, Carter Warren better be freaking ready to step up when needed.

[ChewyandtheJets]

21 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Tell that to the Niners, Chiefs, Lions, Ravens, Bills.

The Chiefs and Lions basically didn’t even have a second receiver (the chiefs barely had an FIRST receiver) and the Chiefs started a left tackle that hasn’t even been signed by anyone else yet.

This perceived value argument is 2018 sh*t.

Im taking a chance that the player is what most people think he is. If he is, then our offense becomes borderline unguardable. 

What’s funny is I needed to reread your post.   At first my eyes must have just defaulted to “our offense becomes unwatchable” which I guess is understandable.   Unguardable makes more sense for your point.   Still think if you go against value too often you end up in a bad spot but if you believe this player is truly an outlier then I can get on board.   Just have to be right.

[Augustiniak]

7 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

I’m down for drafting Bowers if we trade back a few spots and net a 2nd rounder out of it

Have to hope a team gets desperate and wants to vault up to #10 for Penix Jr or Nix

Absolutely have to get a starting caliber OT prospect somewhere in this loaded class though 

Would be a pity not to.

If they want to go all in for MHJ or Nabers, Carter Warren better be freaking ready to step up when needed.

The more i think about it ( which is already too much), i think if the jets stay at 10, it’s going to be fautanu.  The tackle need is the biggest and they have a layup with him, a guy who can start out at guard and finish at either tackle spot and assuming douglas survives this year (which i believe happens, not necessarily saleh though), he’s fixed the LT spot.  Then worst case he’s taking BAP wr in round 3 with maybe a trade up using either a 4th rounder or a pick next year.  

If he trades out of 10, anywhere from 12-16, then you’re looking at OT, bowers or MTJ.  But i think if douglas takes even rome at 10, and then the OL has a bad injury and the protection for rodgers is bad again and they don’t make the playoffs, that’s kinda it for Douglass.  

[usanyj]

19 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

If he’s great at 22 he’s great twelve spots sooner.

 

That’s always funny about this “value” talk… so if we trade down to say 15, and bowers is there and we take him and he’s great, we are happy! If we stay at 10 and he’s great… will people be mad because VaLuE?!

id much rather take a swing at a potential unicorn like bowers or a receiver over a lineman after the off season we have had. I’d be more bothered if we picked a lineman at 10 who didn’t see the field in a potential make or break year over taking a swing at an offensive mismatch.

similar to my view on this regime picking a qb, why would they do that when they may not even see him develop? Same with a lineman, you’re legit picking him at 10 and hoping you don’t ever have to use him.

take the weapon

[Adoni Beast]

21 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Tell that to the Niners, Chiefs, Lions, Ravens, Bills.

The Chiefs and Lions basically didn’t even have a second receiver (the chiefs barely had an FIRST receiver) and the Chiefs started a left tackle that hasn’t even been signed by anyone else yet.

This perceived value argument is 2018 sh*t.

Im taking a chance that the player is what most people think he is. If he is, then our offense becomes borderline unguardable. 

It's tough to read your posts and be able to focus when you have a stud Jackie Gleason with a 'stache as the avatar. Bravo.

[Adoni Beast]

26 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The more i think about it ( which is already too much), i think if the jets stay at 10, it’s going to be fautanu. 

Is this under the assumption that Fashanu is off the board? Fashanu and Fautanu are a tough choice for me if both are on the board at 10 which I think they very well will be. I honestly don't know for sure but I think gun to head I go with Fashanu, although Fautanu's versatility is very appealing....however if you're drafting him to play LT then you don't really want to move him to guard in a pinch. He is sort of the inverse of AVT....more tackle than guard whereas AVT is more guard than tackle.

[Adoni Beast]

29 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

If he trades out of 10, anywhere from 12-16, then you’re looking at OT, bowers or MTJ.  But i think if douglas takes even rome at 10, and then the OL has a bad injury and the protection for rodgers is bad again and they don’t make the playoffs, that’s kinda it for Douglass.  

With exception of something insane like Maye, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze falling to 10.....Trading down in the 12-16 range is our best draft outcome. We could still get Bowers, Fautau, Fuago, Latham, MTJ in the first and an extra 3rd or possibly even 2nd round pick.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

Is this under the assumption that Fashanu is off the board? Fashanu and Fautanu are a tough choice for me if both are on the board at 10 which I think they very well will be. I honestly don't know for sure but I think gun to head I go with Fashanu, although Fautanu's versatility is very appealing....however if you're drafting him to play LT then you don't really want to move him to guard in a pinch. He is sort of the inverse of AVT....more tackle than guard whereas AVT is more guard than tackle.

The versatility is part of it.  But i also think he’s better.  FWIW, Kiper has fautanu at 9 and fashanu at 16.  Jeremiah has fautanu at 12 and fashanu at 15.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Adoni Beast said:

With exception of something insane like Maye, MHJ, Nabers, Odunze falling to 10.....Trading down in the 12-16 range is our best draft outcome. We could still get Bowers, Fautau, Fuago, Latham, MTJ in the first and an extra 3rd or possibly even 2nd round pick.

That is the best scenario.  I am torn on whether they would take a top 3 wr at 10 if one falls.  Probably, but maybe not.  I also think there are teams that would want the 10 pick for a qb, LV, denver, even Seattle.  So i believe there will be trade back opportunities.   

[Adoni Beast]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

That is the best scenario.  I am torn on whether they would take a top 3 wr at 10 if one falls.  Probably, but maybe not.  I also think there are teams that would want the 10 pick for a qb, LV, denver, even Seattle.  So i believe there will be trade back opportunities.   

I think the trade back options for us got more real after Penix killed it at his pro day because he not only won't get past the teams in the teens but may be going before 10 which leaves more desperate for someone like Nix who might want to get ahead of those same teen teams.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I think the trade back options for us got more real after Penix killed it at his pro day because he not only won't get past the teams in the teens but may be going before 10 which leaves more desperate for someone like Nix who might want to get ahead of those same teen teams.

Either teams are gearing up to trade for him in the top 10, or before denver picks (or minny depending on what they do).  

The jets are actually in a great spot at 10.  The only bad thing is that they have no 2nd rounder (yet), and they need a wr and LT.  The smarter thing is to take the OL in round 1 and then go skill position, but if rome or nabers falls to 10 b/c teams are taking mccarthy and penix, then that’s the play even though it’s riskier for douglas’ job security.  

[Dunnie]

Either teams are gearing up to trade for him in the top 10, or before denver picks (or minny depending on what they do).  
The jets are actually in a great spot at 10.  The only bad thing is that they have no 2nd rounder (yet), and they need a wr and LT.  The smarter thing is to take the OL in round 1 and then go skill position, but if rome or nabers falls to 10 b/c teams are taking mccarthy and penix, then that’s the play even though it’s riskier for douglas’ job security.  

I agree... the only way it's not OL is if a top 3WR, or their QB falls in their laps. Can't see TE at 10.. I can see Bowers in the teens though and picking up an extra 3rd for dropping a couple slots. May give the Jets ammo to trade back up into the 2nd.

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[rbstern]

In case you haven't seen Bowers' freshman and sophomore highlights...  First eight minutes:

 

[Dunnie]

In case you haven't seen Bowers' freshman and sophomore highlights...  First eight minutes:
 

Not a whole lot to hate there .. dude looks like the real deal.

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