Hop on the Bowers train or get left in the dust

[bonkertons]

6 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Because quarterbacks, tackles, edges, and receivers have risen. 

Travis Kelce aside, nearly every team would prefer a 'good' starter at those positions to a 'good' TE. Mark Andrews and George Kittle are damn good players, but I'd bet nearly every team would rather have the second or third-best OT or WR in the league as opposed to either of them. 

We're a team with two aging offensive tackles, one routinely injured and the other recovering from pec surgery. We've got Mike Williams who might not be ready for camp.

Bowers is a luxury pick, and an expensive one from an opportunity cost standpoint. 

In a vacuum, sure.  If you had a TE, WR, and OT all on the same level and knew for a fact that all of them would reach the same tier at the NFL level.  Unfortunately though the draft doesn't work like that.  So basically what you're doing is you are drafting strictly for position, and completely ignoring the individual traits of each prospect.  

 

Basically, you can value OT over TE, which is fine in theory, but you could end up drafting Mekhi Becton over Sam Laporta.  If the choice is good WR vs good TE, sure.  I can get on board with that.  What about good WR vs elite TE?  Because that's basically the choice at 10.  That, and a handful of OTs, the safest one being a RT which doesn't really help in our quest for Tyron Smith depth.  Fashanu is the one pure LT, but the worry is he'll have trouble with power rushers at the NFL level. 

 

Fautanu is the only name that really entices me, mainly because he can play either LG or LT out of the gate.  Even still, he's the type of guy I feel like you can find in any draft.  

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, bonkertons said:

In a vacuum, sure.  If you had a TE, WR, and OT all on the same level and knew for a fact that all of them would reach the same tier at the NFL level.  Unfortunately though the draft doesn't work like that.  So basically what you're doing is you are drafting strictly for position, and completely ignoring the individual traits of each prospect.  

 

Basically, you can value OT over TE, which is fine in theory, but you could end up drafting Mekhi Becton over Sam Laporta.  If the choice is good WR vs good TE, sure.  I can get on board with that.  What about good WR vs elite TE?  Because that's basically the choice at 10.  That, and a handful of OTs, the safest one being a RT which doesn't really help in our quest for Tyron Smith depth.  Fashanu is the one pure LT, but the worry is he'll have trouble with power rushers at the NFL level. 

 

Fautanu is the only name that really entices me, mainly because he can play either LG or LT out of the gate.  Even still, he's the type of guy I feel like you can find in any draft.  

No one is ignoring Bowers traits.  Just because we don't want him at 10 you assume all sorts of things.  Your use of "good" and "great" is so arbitrary and subjective, it makes your whole post just a rant.

[bonkertons]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Taking a TE at #25 is different, with a total guarantee of just $13.4M. Still puts him 13th amongst TEs, which is high. Not Kyle Pitts high, which is #1 for something of a disappointment. 

You're the one practically guaranteeing that he’ll be elite. I’m saying you had better be damn sure you’re right if you’re spending a top ten pick on him. My take all along has been I don’t think JD will be that sure. I think he’ll take the safer, higher valued position there, instead. If he does take Bowers, I’ll root like hell for him. I’d love an elite TE. History says the odds are against it. 

Do you remember how much our #2 TE was making last year?  Just curious.

 

...and no, I never guaranteed he'll be anything.  As far as saying you better be sure, that was in response to you implying there is no or little risk involved by going OT instead of Bowers, when clearly there is.  OT's flop all the time.  Drafting a Becton while Bowers turns into even a Kincaid level TE is absolutely a risk.  

[bonkertons]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

No one is ignoring Bowers traits.  Just because we don't want him at 10 you assume all sorts of things.  Your use of "good" and "great" is so arbitrary and subjective, it makes your whole post just a rant.

My man, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Read the post I was responding to.

[bonkertons]

I've had enough going in circles though.  I respect all of your thought processes.  You want to protect against a Smith injury.  I get it.  I'm just not investing a 10th overall pick on that.  Toodles.  

[Dcat]

7 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

My man, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Read the post I was responding to.

I'm looking at the words, phrases and descriptions you used.  And yes, you arbitrarily assigned "good" and "great" to whichever players you pleased.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

28 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

In a vacuum, sure.  If you had a TE, WR, and OT all on the same level and knew for a fact that all of them would reach the same tier at the NFL level.  Unfortunately though the draft doesn't work like that.  So basically what you're doing is you are drafting strictly for position, and completely ignoring the individual traits of each prospect.  

 

Basically, you can value OT over TE, which is fine in theory, but you could end up drafting Mekhi Becton over Sam Laporta.  If the choice is good WR vs good TE, sure.  I can get on board with that.  What about good WR vs elite TE?  Because that's basically the choice at 10.  That, and a handful of OTs, the safest one being a RT which doesn't really help in our quest for Tyron Smith depth.  Fashanu is the one pure LT, but the worry is he'll have trouble with power rushers at the NFL level. 

 

Fautanu is the only name that really entices me, mainly because he can play either LG or LT out of the gate.  Even still, he's the type of guy I feel like you can find in any draft.  

I like Fautanu as well for the same reason.

Also like Odunze. And I'm aware there are some, like Greg Cosell, that believe Fuaga can play Left or Right tackle.

It's difficult to evaluate and rank-order players of different positions.

But, it's understandable why premium positions are weighted more heavily; financially it makes sense but that's mainly because those positions are perceived as having a greater impact on the outcome of any individual game. 

The argument could be made that Bowers is safer because he's a lower risk to bust, sure.

Generally, I can get behind that. But I'd rather have a tackle that 'didn't bust' (if we're assuming "not busting" = "league average starter"). I'd also rather have a tackle that became top 3 in the league as opposed to a top 3 TE.

The only real exception here is HOF-level/best-in-position players. In that case, I'd take Kelce for a decade over Trent Williams for a decade - although I'd bet there'd be some that still prefer Trent. 

It's just asking a lot, IMO, to bank on that.

If there weren't a few tackles I liked or the possibility of Odunze falling, I might be more inclined. But those are distinct possibilities, and we have needs at those premium positions. 

[Alka]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:40 PM, Untouchable said:

It’s destiny

The Jets have solidified the OL (and no, you don’t need a f*cking Top 10 pick to fill in for Smith or Moses for a few games) and they’ve found their running mate opposite Wilson.

They aren’t drafting a QB and none of the Top 3 wideouts are bound to fall to #10.

Joe Douglas is on video proclaiming Michael Mayer among their Top 3 targets at #15 last year. Don’t try to tell me they wouldn’t take arguably the best TE to ever ascend from the college ranks at #10.

It’s happening. You can either cry about “positional value” or can get on board with giving Rodgers another potentially elite offensive playmaker during a 2-3 year “must win” window.

Get on the bus or inevitably get tossed off while you try to overthink things.

If you are following our Mock draft on our site, you are seeing that the Jets traded their pick to the Steelers, and they in turn picked up a offensive tackle.  Bowers is still waiting to be drafted, and he has slid down to #11.  

In the real draft, it is my opinion that he will be drafted around #15.   Definitely not by the NY Jets.

[Vader]

with Mike Williams coming off the ACL and potentially being on a pitch count, Jets still definitely need help in the passing game whether another WR or someone like Bowers

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

If you are following our Mock draft on our site, you are seeing that the Jets traded their pick to the Steelers, and they in turn picked up a offensive tackle.  Bowers is still waiting to be drafted, and he has slid down to #11.  

In the real draft, it is my opinion that he will be drafted around #15.   Definitely not by the NY Jets.

But do you mock draft dorks have inside sources???

[Ghost]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But do you mock draft dorks have inside sources???

My wife’s sister’s babydaddy great uncle’s wife works with someone that has a cousin that knows a friend who knows a friend of someone who may or may not know JD. I got sources mother ****er! 

[Ghost]

I’m really at the point whether we take OT or Bowers, we have to trade back. We need a 2nd. It’s that simple and that 2nd rounder must contribute. 
 

I personally don’t believe in drafting tight ends that high. History has shown it rarely ever works. 

[Augustiniak]

10 hours ago, Ghost said:

I’m really at the point whether we take OT or Bowers, we have to trade back. We need a 2nd. It’s that simple and that 2nd rounder must contribute. 
 

I personally don’t believe in drafting tight ends that high. History has shown it rarely ever works. 

Best use of the pick is trading back and getting another day 2 pick.  That way you can take the OT in round 1 and get a wr round 2 or vice versa.  I still don’t see a scenario where they take a tackle at 10 and then sit him ‘until someone else gets hurt’ b/c that’s not a win now approach.  

[bicketybam]

Trade up and get a QB. Rodgers is running for VP and Taylor is made of paper maché!

[Alka]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But do you mock draft dorks have inside sources???

Forget about sources.  When asked yesterday about the draft and tight end position, JD said that they were good with the tight end room, citing the 4 individual players currently on our roster.  Of course, JD might be playing coy with that answer, but I believe him in this case.

Boosting a position that already has Tyler Conklin as our #1 tight end, who still has 2 years on his contract, and is still young, along with 3 developmental players that include Ruckert, I really don't see the Jets drafting Brock Bowers with the #10 pick.  We have more of a need with the tackle position, as well as wide receiver. 

After the Jets pass on Bowers at #10, or trade down, Bowers will not be picked until around #15 in my opinion.  

We will find out in 4 weeks!

[slats]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

Best use of the pick is trading back and getting another day 2 pick.  That way you can take the OT in round 1 and get a wr round 2 or vice versa.  I still don’t see a scenario where they take a tackle at 10 and then sit him ‘until someone else gets hurt’ b/c that’s not a win now approach.  

It takes two to tango. Who’s trading up to #10 and for whom? 
 
JD’s best picks so far have been sticking and picking or trading up. I don’t think he’ll trade down unless he can actually find a partner and feels extremely comfortable about who’ll be there at his new, lower pick. 
 
If the pick is an OL, that player will likely be in competition for the starting RT and/or LG jobs. 

[Augustiniak]

11 minutes ago, slats said:

It takes two to tango. Who’s trading up to #10 and for whom? 
 
JD’s best picks so far have been sticking and picking or trading up. I don’t think he’ll trade down unless he can actually find a partner and feels extremely comfortable about who’ll be there at his new, lower pick. 
 
If the pick is an OL, that player will likely be in competition for the starting RT and/or LG jobs. 

Obviously you need to find a team to trade up.  But in concept, the best use of the 10 pick is to turn it into 2 picks.  Also, I’m not sure that the tackle they take at 10 is any better a prospect than the tackle teams are taking 10 spots later.  So ideally, i prefer a trade back if they can’t get a top wr. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Obviously you need to find a team to trade up.  But in concept, the best use of the 10 pick is to turn it into 2 picks.  Also, I’m not sure that the tackle they take at 10 is any better a prospect than the tackle teams are taking 10 spots later.  So ideally, i prefer a trade back if they can’t get a top wr. 

I just think this is exactly where JD found himself last year; looking to trade down, finding no partner, and ultimately using the entire clock to take McDonald. If the three WRs are gone, I could see a repeat with an OL being the consolation prize. 
 
I also want the WR, though, and wonder if Bryan Thomas Jr. might be in play at that point. And do either of the Bryan Thomases want him on the Jets? 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I just think this is exactly where JD found himself last year; looking to trade down, finding no partner, and ultimately using the entire clock to take McDonald. If the three WRs are gone, I could see a repeat with an OL being the consolation prize. 
 
I also want the WR, though, and wonder if Bryan Thomas Jr. might be in play at that point. And do either of the Bryan Thomases want him on the Jets? 

Worse draft last year.  For all you know, there’s a team that wants bowers, or a particular tackle or a defender who falls.  

If the jets can slide back in round 1 and swap a 4th for a 2nd, they’d still be able to take a tackle and then have a 2nd rounder for wr.  If they can achieve this, i think it’s the best use of the 10 pick.  If they go OL at 10, that guy is still a rookie competing to start against some serious OL veterans and may start off on the bench again like mcdonald.  Drafting fashanu isn’t a bad pick, but it’s questionable when rodgers may have 1 real year left and they’re running around telling everyone who will listen that they’re all in right now.  Fashanu is a futuresque move.  Not a bad pick, but you’re really saying you expect injuries and that’s when he contributes.  It’s odd considering where the team is right now. 

[Larz]

Apparently he was Georgia’s primary screen target  this guy is very interesting 

 

 

[Rich Thornburgh]

Bowers going to benefit from the new dumb hip drop tackle rule

[BigRy56]

The division in this thread tells me one thing…. Brock Bowers is the pick at 10. He’s perfect for us

[Mr. Rogers]

11 hours ago, slats said:

It takes two to tango. Who’s trading up to #10 and for whom? 
 
JD’s best picks so far have been sticking and picking or trading up. I don’t think he’ll trade down unless he can actually find a partner and feels extremely comfortable about who’ll be there at his new, lower pick. 
 
If the pick is an OL, that player will likely be in competition for the starting RT and/or LG jobs. 

I have a few things to add to multiple discussions. Firstly - if anyone is ruling out Fuaga because he's only RT, consider that the Jets may feel comfortable moving Moses or even AVT to LT, if not Fuaga himself. Personally I like Fuaga a lot, but I also like Fashanu, Fatuanu and Latham. I view the latter 2 as interchangeable 4th best and think any of them will be good for the Jets if we move off pick 10. I think the American Samoan fellas often seem to live up to billing in the trenches.

There is another thing to consider - compared to last year, I think the Jets are in much better position to trade back. Partly because more homework and prep will have been done for our slot (compared to having changed slots for Rodgers last year) but mainly because multiple QB needy teams pick behind the Jets and may be willing to jump each other. 

Consider that the Broncos & Vikings are viewed as very likely to draft QBs, as well as the Raiders and maybe even Saints (though unlikely). All 4 pick in a row after us, and if we're on the clock with a QB they're interested in out there they would be wise to leapfrog each other into our spot. A "short" trade up like that is probably only worth a 3rd, but if we're lucky a bid war / advantageous positioning may even yield a 2nd there. I'd be happy with a 3rd.

Of course, if the Vikings trade into the top 8 as widely predicted, this may not be the case, as the Broncos may be happy to sit pat, particularly if they don't guess the Raiders/Saints are interested in their guy. A weird exception may be if the Giants trade back to 11 and still want QB, though!

[LAD_Brooklyn]

All targets and carries (2023).

 

 

[Larz]

 

[Jetmaster Flex]

On 3/19/2024 at 7:08 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

Thread title says train but now you’re saying bus?  Sure it’s not a wagon?

Getting “tossed off” ain't such a bad thing either 🍆 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Travis Kelce rookie stat line 🤣

0 offensive snaps 

1 ST snap

0 rec

0 yds

0 TD

Bowers is going to come in and set the league on fire 🔥 though 🤣

Conklin and Ruckert won’t even see the field because Bowers is the instant GOAT.

[Fantasy Island]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:40 PM, Untouchable said:

It’s destiny

The Jets have solidified the OL (and no, you don’t need a f*cking Top 10 pick to fill in for Smith or Moses for a few games) and they’ve found their running mate opposite Wilson.

They aren’t drafting a QB and none of the Top 3 wideouts are bound to fall to #10.

Joe Douglas is on video proclaiming Michael Mayer among their Top 3 targets at #15 last year. Don’t try to tell me they wouldn’t take arguably the best TE to ever ascend from the college ranks at #10.

It’s happening. You can either cry about “positional value” or can get on board with giving Rodgers another potentially elite offensive playmaker during a 2-3 year “must win” window.

Get on the bus or inevitably get tossed off while you try to overthink things.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

19 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Travis Kelce rookie stat line 🤣

0 offensive snaps 

1 ST snap

0 rec

0 yds

0 TD

Bowers is going to come in and set the league on fire 🔥 though 🤣

Conklin and Ruckert won’t even see the field because Bowers is the instant GOAT.

Did you do any further research beyond looking at the stat sheet? He was injured basically his whole rookie year and didn't play. 

[adb280z]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:02 AM, Bobby816 said:

And what needs do we have? Seriously I'm asking. Is a backup LT an urgent need? The word backup would imply NO. Never mind than Anyone at 10 outside of Alt (almost guaranteed he wont be available) or Fashanu aren't LTs/ Everyone else has been a RT. So of the argument is to have depth behind Smith bc he gets injured. Fuaga, Latham, etc aren't offering that. You could argue even if we drafted a guy like Fashanu that the staff very well might favor a guy like Warren a whole year in the system and a whole other year to develop to play over the rookie.

WR a bigger need? This I could get behind and it falls in line with my line of thinking that I prefer weapon at 10. But let's play the other side of this. Williams lets say is healthy Week 1. So no matter who you draft (let's say Odunze). Is at best WR3. BUT.... is that rookie for sure starting over Lazard who Rodgers trusts. So that rookie very well might be WR4.

Bowers at worst TE2 right away.

TE2 is a backup

[Bobby816]

7 hours ago, adb280z said:

TE2 is a backup

We run plenty of 2 TE sets. As well as Bowers would in lots of sets I’d imagine be our slot WR. And even h back. He’s a moving chess piece. So he’d get more snaps than a “backup”

And Conklin isn’t this great player ahead of him that he can’t beat out to be TE1.

[Larz]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:04 PM, Ghost said:

I’m really at the point whether we take OT or Bowers, we have to trade back. We need a 2nd. It’s that simple and that 2nd rounder must contribute. 
 

I personally don’t believe in drafting tight ends that high. History has shown it rarely ever works. 

Just imagine that the jets draft Rodgers when pick 41 rolls around 

[Adoni Beast]

I put this is another thread but feel like it belongs here the most for the people saying TE isn’t worth a top 10 pick. This doesn’t mean I am sold on drafting Bowers but if we do and hit on that pick then we’ll have a schematic advantage that the top teams in the league have.

 

KC, SF, Baltimore, Detroit all conference representatives all have 4 of the top 5 TEs in the league. All of those TEs are certainly worth the top 10 pick. They open up their whole offense and in a sense their offenses play off of their position.

 

 

[Bobby816]

44 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I put this is another thread but feel like it belongs here the most for the people saying TE isn’t worth a top 10 pick. This doesn’t mean I am sold on drafting Bowers but if we do and hit on that pick then we’ll have a schematic advantage that the top teams in the league have.

 

 

KC, SF, Baltimore, Detroit all conference representatives all have 4 of the top 5 TEs in the league. All of those TEs are certainly worth the top 10 pick. They open up their whole offense and in a sense their offenses play off of their position.

 

 

Thank you. Been saying look at the teams that succeed last year for a bit. And the kick back on it was that those teams didn’t use 1sts on there TEs.

 

And my stance on that is in restarts every one of them would be drafted in Round 1. Likely top 10. We redraft last year are we not drafting Addison, Nacua, Harrison, Achane, LaPorta, Torrence, etc over McDonald.

 

But DE was a “premium” Position. So some don’t care.

But for whatever reason TE isn’t being looked at as premium when the top teams are using the TE. We use Bowers the way we should and I think we would with Rodgers at QB. He’s absolutely worth the 10th pick. 

[GangGreened]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:04 PM, Ghost said:

I’m really at the point whether we take OT or Bowers, we have to trade back. We need a 2nd. It’s that simple and that 2nd rounder must contribute. 
 

I personally don’t believe in drafting tight ends that high. History has shown it rarely ever works. 

It’s not THAT simple though, because you need the board to fall in a way that a team wants to move up. Douglas historically trades up, not down. Maybe if a QB falls to 10 some teams will come calling.