Hop on the Bowers train or get left in the dust

[Paradis]

26 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Blue chip prospects at premium positions please.

I understand taking a shot at an elite TE in the late first, early second after all the blue chips at OT, WR, QB, CB, and PR are off the board.  It makes no sense at #10 where the Jets will be looking at players like Alt, Nabers, Fuaga, Odunze, and Thomas assuming that the run on QBs happens as predicted.

Hey I have nothing against someone not wanting to take Bowers. There's a few ways this team could go and if you don't want that to be BB -- i tip my hat. I'm just out here spittin' on the subject of him being a valid option for anyone in round 1

[Paradis]

27 minutes ago, slats said:

What about the dude in your avatar? Came into the league hurt, changed coordinators, had crap at QB… 

Conklin, Ruckert, and Kuntz is not a terrible TE room. The need is far more apparent at WR where you have Wilson, a recovering Williams, Lazard(?), and then the UDFAs. The WR is both the greater need and the better value. 
 
Unless you’re in love, but that’s when GMs tend to get into trouble. 

I still love what we can get out of Ruckert. And as much as i want to have all the TEs, if it was my job to be the GM of the NYJ, Bowers wouldn't be my option A... there's a things i'd be trying to do first, trade down, flirt with Odunze, etc. But he's a legit option. 

I personally want to run 2-3 TE formations more often, but don't think that's the current regime's mandate. FTR I think Conklin is whatever, and I don't believe Kuntz is an NFL talent. 

[Paradis]

29 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

LMAO 

@Warfish

 

Who could blame the alien there... 

He is the best college TE prospect of all time, i don't say that with hyperbole.. but also the bar isn't exactly everest either. There's been better athletic profiles, sure, but in terms of a guy that did it all, and in the best conference in NCAA, at the highest levels week in and week out -- yea, it's him and then no one for miles. 

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Who could blame the alien there... 

He is the best college TE prospect of all time, i don't say that with hyperbole.. but also the bar isn't exactly everest either. There's been better athletic profiles, sure, but in terms of a guy that did it all, and in the best conference in NCAA, at the highest levels week in and week out -- yea, it's him and then no one for miles. 

Ok. 
 

It just feels like, as the years go by, we hear more and more of these sorts of proclamations. The draft gets SO much coverage now and we have SO much time to talk about it, I’m just weary of these guys being overhyped. 
 

if we end up picking Bowers, I’ll be excited, but I’m just nervous as hell. The Jets don’t do well with high expectations. 

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In a world where both the TE and WR work out, the TE will be much cheaper in the long run, starting with the 5th year option.  And that's true even if the TE ends up the best in the game and the WR is outside the top 10 at his position.

It's not a defining reason to take the TE over the WR but it sure is a nice little benefit.  

But that's specifically because the TE will have less market value, so I'm not sure it's a benefit at all

[#27TheDominator]

FWIW, Yeboah is back and he is ahead of Kuntz, even if that is primarily based on specials. 

[UntouchableCrew]

46 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

if we end up picking Bowers, I’ll be excited, but I’m just nervous as hell. The Jets don’t do well with high expectations. 

Same here.

I'll do what any good fan would do -- start talking about how he's a "mismatch nightmare" and a "positionless weapon" getting myself hyped up.

And then the season will start and we'll realize we spent a top ten pick on a worse blocking Dallas Clark.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In a world where both the TE and WR work out, the TE will be much cheaper in the long run, starting with the 5th year option.  And that's true even if the TE ends up the best in the game and the WR is outside the top 10 at his position.

It's not a defining reason to take the TE over the WR but it sure is a nice little benefit.  

I don't get this take.  First of all, I do not give a flying **** about after the rookie deal.  The draft is about getting guys on their rookie deals.  Getting a TE on their rookie deal is less of a savings than getting a corresponding quality WR.  That is a negative.  If they are cheaper after their contract is up, then why not just sign somebody else's draft pick?  Pitts for example.  The only place you will save is on that 5th year option and I sure as sh*t am not concerning myself with 2028 right now if I am Joe Douglas. 

For me, I am comparing Bowers to the WR and what we will be able to get out of each. Or at least Bowers vs. Ruckert vs. the available WR vs. Corey Davis or whoever else we end up with.  My choice still might be Bowers, but I have not really delved that hard into Thomas.

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't get this take.  First of all, I do not give a flying **** about after the rookie deal.  The draft is about getting guys on their rookie deals.  Getting a TE on their rookie deal is less of a savings than getting a corresponding quality WR.  That is a negative.  If they are cheaper after their contract is up, then why not just sign somebody else's draft pick?  Pitts for example.  The only place you will save is on that 5th year option and I sure as sh*t am not concerning myself with 2028 right now if I am Joe Douglas. 

For me, I am comparing Bowers to the WR and what we will be able to get out of each. Or at least Bowers vs. Ruckert vs. the available WR vs. Corey Davis or whoever else we end up with.  My choice still might be Bowers, but I have not really delved that hard into Thomas.

Yeah just sign Pitts and Hockenson - easy!

[#27TheDominator]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah just sign Pitts and Hockenson - easy!

Nice of you to be so facetious about something you are so wrong about.  The Lions literally got the actual Hockenson and a 4th for a 2nd and 3rd.  Then they signed him for 4/$66M.  That seems pretty easy to me.  At least compared to giving up a 1st, 2nd, 2 4ths and a 6th to give Tyreek Hill 4/$120M or a 1st and 2nd to pay Davante Adams 5/$140M.  Which sounds easier to you?  AJ Brown for a 1st and 4th and 4/$100M?  Before you tell me those guys are better than Hockenson, remember that doesn't really help the argument that TE is a better choice than WR that all those guys warranted so much more than a top TE.

[bealeb319]

Tight ends are usually late bloomers we don't need a potentially elite tight end the year after Rodgers retires when are trying to win now.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Ok. 
 

It just feels like, as the years go by, we hear more and more of these sorts of proclamations. The draft gets SO much coverage now and we have SO much time to talk about it, I’m just weary of these guys being overhyped. 
 

if we end up picking Bowers, I’ll be excited, but I’m just nervous as hell. The Jets don’t do well with high expectations. 

No i get it.  He's a TE, and if you're not a degenerate like me with a Tiger Beat poster of Bowers in their room - then that's normal

That said, I'm almost always the "get off my lawn" guy with the incessant/gross overuse of words like Generational. Elite. Etc. America has become untenable with exaggeration. Bowers is generational. MHJ is likely elite.... well, i don't even know if he's that. He's just so fcking clean that his floor is invincible. Other than that? 

• Caleb Williams is not generational. None of the QBs are. The last one two to fit that handle in the last 15 years were Trevor Lawrence and Andrew Luck. 
• The last one before MHJ was Calvin Johnson in 2007... AJ Green was close. He and Jamar Chase were fringe names imo
• RB? Adrian Peterson, and maybe Saquon. There's been great prospects like Zeke, Gurley, T-Rich, DMC - and I can understand the handle "elite" but generational?

You get the idea. We love literally actually naming things the best absolutely a hundy percent of the time

[TuscanyTile2]

4 hours ago, jetswin said:

I see he left swimming out.. we should have known

I think you're confusing him with Al Campanis

[Rich Thornburgh]

19 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Tight ends are usually late bloomers we don't need a potentially elite tight end the year after Rodgers retires when are trying to win now.

Not necessarily. Pitts had a 1,000 yd rookie season playing with a crappy qb. Laporta was good right away

[Jetsfan80]

36 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Nice of you to be so facetious about something you are so wrong about.  The Lions literally got the actual Hockenson and a 4th for a 2nd and 3rd.  Then they signed him for 4/$66M.  That seems pretty easy to me.  At least compared to giving up a 1st, 2nd, 2 4ths and a 6th to give Tyreek Hill 4/$120M or a 1st and 2nd to pay Davante Adams 5/$140M.  Which sounds easier to you?  AJ Brown for a 1st and 4th and 4/$100M?  Before you tell me those guys are better than Hockenson, remember that doesn't really help the argument that TE is a better choice than WR that all those guys warranted so much more than a top TE.

LaPorta then.  Sign him and Pitts instead of Hockenson.  Boom.  Done.

[Doggin94it]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

Your argument actually works completely contrary to your position. It's hella hard to lock down a TE who can really be "The Guy" and those that have one, are at a distinct advantage in a dozen ways

Whether he's the priority pick, or if we trust our staff to development him -- all valid points. Your drunken take of "TE is duuuuhhh not a round 1 talent, gus-gus " is for the birds. For real. 

Look, I'm not going to lie and say I didn't know I was putting out the @paradis signal when I posted that, I know you and your love affair with the position. Yes, sure, if you've got" the guy" take him at 10. But there isn't an NFL draft prospect you can look at and say oh this is definitely going to be a guy who is among the elite at his position all time. Especially not at a position like tight end where the bust rate is super high. So if that's what you need to make the pick worthwhile, and that is what you need if you're drafting a tight end in the top 10, it's a bad pick

[jetswin]

25 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think you're confusing him with Al Campanis

Damn you're right

My bad lol

[Rich Thornburgh]

8 hours ago, Morrissey said:

You are "ALL IN" on 1 year of Aaron Rodgers but are gonna risk going into the season with two 33 year old tackles (one who is guaranteed to miss at least 4-6 games), AVT who has played in what 7 games in 2 years? and with little to no depth on the rest of the OL. Not to mention both those tackles are on 1 year deals. Hell whatever linemen you take at 10 could beat out John Simpson in training camp if you actually let him.

Only people with zero foresight thinks Bowers is the right pick.

AVT is 24 and also a OT as is Warren who looked decent at LT last season 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Your argument actually works completely contrary to your position. It's hella hard to lock down a TE who can really be "The Guy" and those that have one, are at a distinct advantage in a dozen ways

Whether he's the priority pick, or if we trust our staff to development him -- all valid points. Your drunken take of "TE is duuuuhhh not a round 1 talent, gus-gus " is for the birds. For real. 

@Jetsfan80 I think this is the argument for Bowers.  It's certainly not that TEs are cheaper.  Especially at the Hockenson/LaPorta level.  It is that guys like Bowers and Pitts are unicorns are there are just so few of them. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

@Jetsfan80 I think this is the argument for Bowers.  It's certainly not that TEs are cheaper.  Especially at the Hockenson/LaPorta level.  It is that guys like Bowers and Pitts are unicorns are there are just so few of them. 

I believe I’ve been saying that plenty in this thread.  I also said the money aspect was only a small part of the advantage.  So….

[T0mShane]

Is Bowers going to beat a 4.56/40 with a 35” vertical? I’d guess so? I only ask because that’s what Njigba tested around last offseason, and Bowers is clearly a better player.

[Green Ghost]

If Bowers didn’t run at the Georgia Pro Day because of a hammy, I wonder if he ever will before the draft?

@Beerfish

[Lith]

2 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

If Bowers didn’t run at the Georgia Pro Day because of a hammy, I wonder if he ever will before the draft?

@Beerfish

I think he is having his own workout sometime during the second week in April - I forget the date.  He is expected to run then.

[Green Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

I think he is having his own workout sometime during the second week in April - I forget the date.  He is expected to run then.

Thanks @Lith I wasn’t being flip when I asked, I wondered because how much training could he have been doing? I’d be leery of running an abnormally slow time that could move him down the board.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Look, I'm not going to lie and say I didn't know I was putting out the @paradis signal when I posted that, I know you and your love affair with the position. 

that got a good lol from me

[Beerfish]

51 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Is Bowers going to beat a 4.56/40 with a 35” vertical? I’d guess so? I only ask because that’s what Njigba tested around last offseason, and Bowers is clearly a better player.

Who cares, Dallas Turner ran a 4.46!

[Jet_Engine1]

I hop for no man.

[Morrissey]

14 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

AVT is 24 and also a OT as is Warren who looked decent at LT last season 

AVT has missed how many games the last 2 seasons?

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

12 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

If Bowers didn’t run at the Georgia Pro Day because of a hammy, I wonder if he ever will before the draft?

@Beerfish

Soft-tissue injuries like hamstring tears have a way of recurring.

Bowers also had the dreaded high-ankle sprain in 2023.

Dude lowers his head when he runs which in the NFL makes for a concussion waiting to happen.

I want no part of Bowers at #10 but Joe Douglas can’t resist a hype train so am mentally preparing for that to be the pick.

Just hope he doesn’t suck and somehow manages to stay healthy despite having to play on the MetLife turf 8x a year.

Rodgers has been very durable over his career and we saw him last 4 plays.

[slats]

4 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

I want no part of Bowers at #10 but Joe Douglas can’t resist a hype train so am mentally preparing for that to be the pick.

I tend to disagree. I see a number of mocks with Jets taking Bowers -occasionally with Odunze still on the board(?!?)- but to me, Joe Douglas is a guy who has very firm values set for players and positions, and I have a difficult time seeing him taking a TE at #10 as a result. 
 
The mocks that have just two WRs going in the top nine are my favorites. If three go, and it’s Bowers vs. the third or fourth OT? I honestly don’t know. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, slats said:

I tend to disagree. I see a number of mocks with Jets taking Bowers -occasionally with Odunze still on the board(?!?)- but to me, Joe Douglas is a guy who has very firm values set for players and positions, and I have a difficult time seeing him taking a TE at #10 as a result. 
 
The mocks that have just two WRs going in the top nine are my favorites. If three go, and it’s Bowers vs. the third or fourth OT? I honestly don’t know. 

I haven’t seen mocks where the jets take bowers over rome.  I think if rome is there he’s the pick.  It seems as if rome is more likely to slip to 10 rather than nabers, who seems unlikely to get past the giants.  

I’m torn on bowers.  I hated so many of the 1st round picks the jets have made under prior gms, safeties, DT (though Q is great), darron lee.  Yet i believe bowers will be great.  

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I haven’t seen mocks where the jets take bowers over rome.  I think if rome is there he’s the pick.  It seems as if rome is more likely to slip to 10 rather than nabers, who seems unlikely to get past the giants.  

I’m torn on bowers.  I hated so many of the 1st round picks the jets have made under prior gms, safeties, DT (though Q is great), darron lee.  Yet i believe bowers will be great.  

If Bowers is the pick, my bold prediction is that the Jets don’t submit the card until they’ve exhausted every option they can think of to move back - similar to last year with McDonald. I just can’t see JD being enthusiastic about a top ten TE. 

[Claymation]

10 minutes ago, slats said:

I tend to disagree. I see a number of mocks with Jets taking Bowers -occasionally with Odunze still on the board(?!?)- but to me, Joe Douglas is a guy who has very firm values set for players and positions, and I have a difficult time seeing him taking a TE at #10 as a result. 
 
The mocks that have just two WRs going in the top nine are my favorites. If three go, and it’s Bowers vs. the third or fourth OT? I honestly don’t know. 

I don't believe JD sees Bowers a traditional inline TE. He can line up everywhere, and you can make the argument that he has the 2nd best hands in the draft behind Marvin.

Now whether he takes him at 10 is another story. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

If Bowers is the pick, my bold prediction is that the Jets don’t submit the card until they’ve exhausted every option they can think of to move back - similar to last year with McDonald. I just can’t see JD being enthusiastic about a top ten TE. 

One element of the draft that needs to be considered is that jd needs an impact pick.  He enjoyed a lot of kudos after the sauce/garrett/breece draft, which he desperately needed after the wilson fail.  While i think mcdonald will be good, in today’s nfl you can’t draft a guy in mid 1st round who isn’t a qb, and just sit him and pretend all is well.  So i think this is definitely in the mindset.  I don’t think tackle is in play at 10.  I think if jd gets a compelling offer to move back and get a 2nd rounder, then tackle is definitely in play.  B/c if they take a tackle mid round 1, and have a 2nd, then they can address wr in round 2.  

But assuming they stay at 10, and considering how bad the offense is year after year after year, i think it’s a weapon.  And that guy needs to produce.  So i think it’s bowers, rome or dark horse, thomas, and i could see a slide to 12 or so and then taking thomas. 

[slats]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

One element of the draft that needs to be considered is that jd needs an impact pick.  He enjoyed a lot of kudos after the sauce/garrett/breece draft, which he desperately needed after the wilson fail.  While i think mcdonald will be good, in today’s nfl you can’t draft a guy in mid 1st round who isn’t a qb, and just sit him and pretend all is well.  So i think this is definitely in the mindset.  I don’t think tackle is in play at 10.  I think if jd gets a compelling offer to move back and get a 2nd rounder, then tackle is definitely in play.  B/c if they take a tackle mid round 1, and have a 2nd, then they can address wr in round 2.  

But assuming they stay at 10, and considering how bad the offense is year after year after year, i think it’s a weapon.  And that guy needs to produce.  So i think it’s bowers, rome or dark horse, thomas, and i could see a slide to 12 or so and then taking thomas. 

I totally get it. The more I see about Bowers, the more I understand the hype. 
 
I have real doubts about Bowers being the pick, though. First, I cannot get past the positional value thing. Fans may want to throw that out, but in the first two rounds he’s only strayed from high value positions for interior OL and Breece high in the second. Does JD see Bowers like Breece? A weapon regardless of position? It’s possible, but there’s also a big difference between pick #10 and pick #36. Another thing is that Bowers is a little undersized. He may be a willing and capable blocker at the college level, but he’s likely to struggle at that in the pros. So can he be a traditional TE, especially as a rookie? Or is he gonna be the TE you bring in for passing downs and 2 TE sets? Is their offensive staff capable of putting together a formidable 12 personnel attack? I don’t have a lot of confidence in them, either. 
 
I believe that if Odunze is there, he should and probably will be the pick. It does get dicey for me if the top three WRs are gone.