Another Bowers thread? Yup

[slats]

Reminds me of the hype around Vernon Davis, another undersized but freakish TE with solid college production. Ran the 40 in under 4.4 at 6’3” 240. Was primarily a blocker thru three seasons in the NFL before finally breaking out in his fourth with over 900 yards and 13 TDs. Had a long career, but never had a 1000 yard season. Turned out to be a nice player eventually, but he was clearly not worth the top ten pick spent on him. 

[Creepy Lurker]

3 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Sam LaPorta needs to be on that list too. Besides LaPorta and Kincaid, the rest are awful and did not live up to the hype. 

It’s a terrible gamble and value at 10. Resource mismanagement. 

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Sam LaPorta needs to be on that list too. Besides LaPorta and Kincaid, the rest are awful and did not live up to the hype. 

Wasn’t a first round pick.

Thats kind of the point — exceedingly difficult position to project to the NFL level where top ten picks are often totally irrelevant and the majority of elite players go after the first.

Just such a high bust rate.

[Barry McCockinner]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I've said it before i'll say it again.

I like Bowers a lot and will be fine with the jets picking him but I have ZERO confidence that Hackett can make proper use of him.

With an HB/TE weapon you have to go out of your way to make the best use of him.  I see hackett going, oh, a tight end, lets do all the tight end things.

Agreed. Add in the fact that Rodgers avoids throwing to the middle of the field and it feels like a super low impact move for the win now idea.

[JustInFudge]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I've said it before i'll say it again.

I like Bowers a lot and will be fine with the jets picking him but I have ZERO confidence that Hackett can make proper use of him.

With an HB/TE weapon you have to go out of your way to make the best use of him.  I see hackett going, oh, a tight end, lets do all the tight end things.

Curious because you have said this a bunch but do you actually think Hackett is running the offense w/ Rodgers back?  Rodgers is calling the plays and running the offense, so the actual question you should be asking is, can Rodgers get Bowers involved properly and I think that's an easy yes.

The other aspect you have to figure in here is, Hackett is gone next season.  So you're passing on a potential HOF TE because for 1 season he's going to have "bad" coaching?

Especially when you consider Hackett just coached Hall to lead the league in yards from scrimmage for a RB.  He's creative enough to get that productivity but he wont be a HB/TE/WR...it's kind of doesnt make sense

[Ghost]

6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Wasn’t a first round pick.

Thats kind of the point — exceedingly difficult position to project to the NFL level where top ten picks are often totally irrelevant and the majority of elite players go after the first.

Just such a high bust rate.

You are right. I thought he was late 20s. But you are right, this proves that drafted a tight end in the mid-rounds is exactly where they should go, not in the top 10. 
 

I’m not even opposed to drafting a tight end. I just don’t believe in doing it in the 1st and especially with the top 10. 

[Doggin94it]

The thing I see with Bowers cutups is a guy in space running away from defenders in a way a TE is just not supposed to be able to do. Which, don't get me wrong, is great. But the athletic difference between college defensive players (yes, even in the SEC) and NFL defensive players is night and day. He's just not going to be able to do that in the NFL, not running a 4.5. With his blocking issues he's functionally a big WR, but for a WR he's slow, not fast. I'm just not seeing a player that looks all but guaranteed to dominate the NFL from the TE position. If we take him, I'm not going to riot, and I'll hope I'm wrong, but I'll be disappointed.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Rodgers is calling the plays and running the offense, so the actual question you should be asking is, can Rodgers get Bowers involved properly and I think that's an easy yes.

This is an interesting argument for Bowers considering that many of the arguments against taking a WR early involve Rodgers having no interest in throwing to rookies. Do you think OC Rodgers would be able to get Odunze involved, too? 

[Bobby816]

I think another thing to keep in mind when thinking about Bowers is that we weren't even good with a TE room of Conklin Uzo and Ruckert last year.

When we got a sneak peak into our draft room. Apparently we were really high on Meyer from ND. Just thought that 15 was maybe too high for him. So we didn't think TE we were set at. We cut Uzo and Ruckert didn't do anything to solidify himself. So I cant see our viewpoint of that room being vastly different.

 

If nothing else... I'd have to say Bowers will be ranked high on our board. Whether we draft him or not, I don't know. But I do feel like we just don't think TE is worth that spot. Considering how we considered a vastly not as good of a prospect in Meyer last year at 15.

[CanadienJetsFan]

8 hours ago, Untouchable said:

People can take their supposed “premium positions” and stick them up their collective assh0les. 

League average guards now make $16-17 million a year after every dickhead from here to Timbuktu told me I was a nutter for wanting Quenton Nelson at #6 before we ultimately moved up for Darnold.

Dudes like Kelce, Kittle, LaPorta, Andrews, etc are some of the premier offensive weapons in the game today. Stop telling me that drafting arguably the best TE prospect to ever step out of the college ranks is some sort of batsh*t fools errand at #10 after you’ve already attacked the hell out of the OL in FA and landed your #2 wideout opposite Wilson.

Two years fellas before we go back to bottom of the sh*t barrel QB play and a completely inept offense as a whole. Better utilize the time you have.

Well, if you’re right then no way he’s there @#10.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

The thing I see with Bowers cutups is a guy in space running away from defenders in a way a TE is just not supposed to be able to do. Which, don't get me wrong, is great. But the athletic difference between college defensive players (yes, even in the SEC) and NFL defensive players is night and day. He's just not going to be able to do that in the NFL, not running a 4.5. With his blocking issues he's functionally a big WR, but for a WR he's slow, not fast. I'm just not seeing a player that looks all but guaranteed to dominate the NFL from the TE position. If we take him, I'm not going to riot, and I'll hope I'm wrong, but I'll be disappointed.

Bowers seems like a guy who will disappoint if the jets pick him but be an all pro if the dolphins pick him. 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

This is an interesting argument for Bowers considering that many of the arguments against taking a WR early involve Rodgers having no interest in throwing to rookies. Do you think OC Rodgers would be able to get Odunze involved, too? 

What happens when rodgers is retired next year and the jets have a new qb and possibly new coaches?  I wouldn’t draft bowers for the 2024 season. 

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

The thing I see with Bowers cutups is a guy in space running away from defenders in a way a TE is just not supposed to be able to do. Which, don't get me wrong, is great. But the athletic difference between college defensive players (yes, even in the SEC) and NFL defensive players is night and day. He's just not going to be able to do that in the NFL, not running a 4.5. With his blocking issues he's functionally a big WR, but for a WR he's slow, not fast. I'm just not seeing a player that looks all but guaranteed to dominate the NFL from the TE position. If we take him, I'm not going to riot, and I'll hope I'm wrong, but I'll be disappointed.

Agreed. He’s a man amongst boys in college, he’ll be a man amongst bigger and faster men in the NFL. Not saying he’s gonna bust, either, just that he’s an incredibly risky pick. I still think it’s between WR and OT, I don’t think JD could pull this trigger. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, slats said:

Agreed. He’s a man amongst boys in college, he’ll be a man amongst bigger and faster men in the NFL. Not saying he’s gonna bust, either, just that he’s an incredibly risky pick. I still think it’s between WR and OT, I don’t think JD could pull this trigger. 

The one reason why i think bowers is different from these other TEs coming out of college is that he runs more like a running back and lines up a lot in the slot.  He’s a guy i am scared for the jets to draft, yet if another team does i expect to see his highlights on redzone

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

What happens when rodgers is retired next year and the jets have a new qb and possibly new coaches?  I wouldn’t draft bowers for the 2024 season. 

If anything I look at that as a pro. That's a weapon for maybe a young QB. Our biggest fault we've had when drafting young QBs is not giving them weapons. Darnold had none. Geno had none. Wilson had some, but very young guys. Having Garrett and Bowers for sure would be great for a young QB.

 

Another thing no one has really mentioned is how polished Bowers is. This is a guy that started as a true freshman and was arguably the best TE in the nation at 18. Playing in the SEC where competition is great pretty much weekly. Played in big time games winning 2 national championships. I mean didnt he only lose 1 game in 3 years of NCAA football? Thats crazy for an SEC team and to start as a freshman.

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

Agreed. He’s a man amongst boys in college, he’ll be a man amongst bigger and faster men in the NFL. Not saying he’s gonna bust, either, just that he’s an incredibly risky pick. I still think it’s between WR and OT, I don’t think JD could pull this trigger. 

That's what all the critics said about CMC.

[BurntDice]

7 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Brock bowers. 
10 100 yard games in 3 years

Rome Odunze.

10 100 yard games last year 

WRs > TE

 

This 100% the production of even average WRs is usually better than that of “good” TEs 

[JustInFudge]

8 hours ago, doitny said:

Conklin was pretty good last year. 65 catches on 87 targets. do you expect better use than that?

TE was not ignored last year. in fact i would argue Conklin was a big part of the offense.

 

We've discussed this too.  Conklin cant run routes.  He's not a dynamic player at all.  He is a JAG.  He's basically a check down queen / outlet guy who runs like he has rocks in his shoes.  He's never beat anyone on a route, he's never made anyone miss, he's catches the ball and goes down.  He's not scaring anyone as a receiver or scaring anyone w/ the ball in his hands.

This thread, illustrates the difference in the two players magically.  Conklin averages 4.2 yac, that's awful when you consider his air yard and depth of target is is 6.9 yards.  He had 27 1st downs on 67 catches and 0 TD's - it's like being part of the game but not actually doing anything that helps your team move the chains and/or score.  Compared to the #1 team in the nation's most dynamic playmaker, lead receiver, yac king, TD making, stud.   

It's like saying, we dont need Marvin Harrison Jr., we have Allen Lazard.

[Dunnie]

Not being a college football junkie I didn't watch a lot of Georgia football .. can someone tell me if he took a lot of punishment and got a lot of his YAC at the expense of his body ? Just wondering if that will take an early toll in the NFL.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[UntouchableCrew]

15 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

The thing I see with Bowers cutups is a guy in space running away from defenders in a way a TE is just not supposed to be able to do. Which, don't get me wrong, is great. But the athletic difference between college defensive players (yes, even in the SEC) and NFL defensive players is night and day. He's just not going to be able to do that in the NFL, not running a 4.5. With his blocking issues he's functionally a big WR, but for a WR he's slow, not fast. I'm just not seeing a player that looks all but guaranteed to dominate the NFL from the TE position. If we take him, I'm not going to riot, and I'll hope I'm wrong, but I'll be disappointed.

This pretty much perfectly sums up my fears with Bowers, beyond my general belief that TEs are extremely hard to project and should never be picked in the top ten.

[oatmeal]

3 talented top tier WR available

Jets fans: “GIVE ME THE TE WHO SUCKS INN CONTESTED CATCH SITUATIONS AND IS NOT THAT GOOD OF A BLOCKER!”

Bowers not worth a top 10 pick you TV draft analysts 

[Warfish]

36 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Sam LaPorta needs to be on that list too. Besides LaPorta and Kincaid, the rest are awful and did not live up to the hype. 

Hockenson is “awful”?

Dude just put up back to back -950 yard seasons, with 5-6 TD’s and is a very good blocker. In what universe is that awful?

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

This is an interesting argument for Bowers considering that many of the arguments against taking a WR early involve Rodgers having no interest in throwing to rookies. Do you think OC Rodgers would be able to get Odunze involved, too? 

Yes, absolutely.  The idea that Rodgers/Hackett wont be able to involve a talented play makers, is weird.  I dont get it at all.  And again, what I thought was the more compelling argument I made is you're taking player to be a part of your organization for years to come, Hackett and Rodgers are not long term fixtures w/ the NY Jets.  The rookie they select, will be here long after they're gone (hopefully).

[slats]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

That's what all the critics said about CMC.

Let’s face it, CMC is a unicorn. Are you saying Bowers is another one? Because he’ll need to be to justify the pick. I’m not saying the Bowers isn’t going to be good or great, he could be the GOAT for all I know. The problem is that if he’s not Kelce/Kittle, he’ll be labeled a bust - fair or not. My take isn’t against Bowers, my take is that JD won’t take that risk. 

[Dunnie]

Hockenson is “awful”?
Dude just put up back to back -950 yard seasons, with 5-6 TD’s and is a very good blocker. In what universe is that awful?

Voice of reason enters the room ^ thank you ... serious... Not every player is all-pro

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Let’s face it, CMC is a unicorn. Are you saying Bowers is another one? Because he’ll need to be to justify the pick. I’m not saying the Bowers isn’t going to be good or great, he could be the GOAT for all I know. The problem is that if he’s not Kelce/Kittle, he’ll be labeled a bust - fair or not. My take isn’t against Bowers, my take is that JD won’t take that risk. 

As many have mentioned, JD had Michael Mayer on his short list at 15.  I got to imagine he's got Bowers ranked a lot higher. 

I know there are a quite a few posters who dont watch college ball around here but the fact of the matter is, Bowers looked the best player in the country during his tenure at UGA.  Like, if you havent had the chance to really see him on display, it's kind of hard to describe but it's not often that a player enters the SEC and is so head and shoulders better than everyone else that you're kind of awestruck.  Dude dominated from day 1, looking like the best player on the field every single game he played in during his career.  I've watched the SEC religiously for a long long time, the last time a player of this magnitude entered the league and had this type of an impact on his team was Percy Harvin, who ironically, also led his team to 2 National Championships. 

[Bobby816]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

Let’s face it, CMC is a unicorn. Are you saying Bowers is another one? Because he’ll need to be to justify the pick. I’m not saying the Bowers isn’t going to be good or great, he could be the GOAT for all I know. The problem is that if he’s not Kelce/Kittle, he’ll be labeled a bust - fair or not. My take isn’t against Bowers, my take is that JD won’t take that risk. 

Well it's in comparison to what you'd get if you didn't draft him right?

So let's say we go OL. What no one is talking about is let's say the pick is Fuaga (I think we can cross off Alt off as being there). Fuaga has never played LT in college. So the reasoning for drafting OT is that Smith misses time every year. Well Smith is a LT. Is Fuaga even the backup to Smith? I'd question that actually Warren would be. So the reasoning for drafting OT would be for that depth behind Smith. But Fuaga might not offer that.

Now if we draft Fushanu, that's different bc he has been a LT.

Let's say we draft Odunze. Is he for sure WR3 over Lazard if we don't trade him? After all AR has played with Lazard and he knows the offense like no one else in our WR room. Is a rookie for sure starting over him? So you might be drafting Odunze to be a WR4.

I think Bowers IMO comes in and at wo5rst is TE2. Likely becoming TE1 based on how fast he can grasp the system. As well as TE2s do play a decent amount. There's no great player in his way. Conklin is just fine. But he has no inside track like Lazard does to have that trust with Rodgers. And as I said. Bowers is VERY polished. He can block and be a weapon. Most NCAA TEs aren't good at both as rookies. Bowers quite frankly is a guy that if he was even able to declare the last couple years would have been TE1 in the draft.

The kid at 18 put up nearly 900 yards and 13TDs for a SEC National Championship team

At 19 nearly 1,000 yards and 7 tds for an SEC national championship team

At 20 he only played 10 games and had 700+ yards and 6 tds in the SEC for a team that was undefeated while he played. The kid never lost a game he was in in college in the SEC. Put those Junior stats into a 15 game season like he had as a freshman and sophmore and he was on pace for a an over 1,000 yard season and over 10 tds.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Ruckert is a complete player and will show the world this season. 
Conklin is a fine #2.

 

Draft the receiver, tackle, or trade down. 

[GreenFish]

7 hours ago, PS17 said:

I’m trading up to 7 or 8 to get Odunze. Need to jump the Bears and the price shouldn’t be too high. Will be so worth it. 

This is the way. Atlanta is highly likely going defense and they can assume Chicago and NYJ are going offense. So who ever they want will still be there at 10.

The chart suggest it’ll cost us dropping from the 3rd round to the 4th round in order to move up from 10 to 8. 

[Barton]

30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Hockenson is “awful”?

Dude just put up back to back -950 yard seasons, with 5-6 TD’s and is a very good blocker. In what universe is that awful?

He’s only cracked 800 yards once in 6 years. Before 2023, his production was worse than Conklin. 

[Barton]

If you draft Bowers, you have to move him around like he’s a weapon. It’s a risky but high upside pick. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Barton said:

He’s only cracked 800 yards once in 6 years. Before 2023, his production was worse than Conklin. 

In 2022 he had 914 yards and 6 TDs.  He’s thus cracked 900+ twice.  With Pro Bowl appearances in 2020 and 2022.  

“Awful”, huh. 

[slats]

7 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

As many have mentioned, JD had Michael Mayer on his short list at 15.  I got to imagine he's got Bowers ranked a lot higher. 

I know there are a quite a few posters who dont watch college ball around here but the fact of the matter is, Bowers looked the best player in the country during his tenure at UGA.  Like, if you havent had the chance to really see him on display, it's kind of hard to describe but it's not often that a player enters the SEC and is so head and shoulders better than everyone else that you're kind of awestruck.  Dude dominated from day 1, looking like the best player on the field every single game he played in during his career.  I've watched the SEC religiously for a long long time, the last time a player of this magnitude entered the league and had this type of an impact on his team was Percy Harvin, who ironically, also led his team to 2 National Championships. 

I don’t follow college ball. For many years now, I’ve appreciated your opinions on prospects and this one is no different. If Douglas agrees with you and pulls the trigger, I’ll hope you’re right. I’m certainly not arguing that you’re not. 
 
I don’t give much credence to what JD’s short list may’ve been last year, I’m going by his actions. In the first two rounds, he goes after premium positions. The only times he hasn’t have been for interior OL and Breece. Does he see Bowers like Breece? The low value position with too much juice to pass up? I guess we’ll see. I don’t think you can take him if one of the top three WRs is there, and I just have a hard time seeing Douglas use a top ten pick on a TE. While at #10 you can come away with a very good/solid starter at OT or WR without much complaint, a very good/solid starting TE would be a massive disappointment in the same spot. The top ten TE would need to be near HoF quality as a rookie in order to keep the heat off a GM drafting for his job here. As we all know, he will be compared to all the players taken after him in the first round, and any TE taken two or three rounds later who has a better rookie season. I think the risk is too high. 

[TheAustrian]

49 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Bowers seems like a guy who will disappoint if the jets pick him but be an all pro if the dolphins pick him. 

Like Zach Wilson?

[mrcoops]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Reminds me of the hype around Vernon Davis, another undersized but freakish TE with solid college production. Ran the 40 in under 4.4 at 6’3” 240. Was primarily a blocker thru three seasons in the NFL before finally breaking out in his fourth with over 900 yards and 13 TDs. Had a long career, but never had a 1000 yard season. Turned out to be a nice player eventually, but he was clearly not worth the top ten pick spent on him. 

Please don't get @hmhertz started on the subject of Vernon Davis!