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Integrity28

Westhoff speaketh

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If you haven't checked this out, you might want to... interesting point of view from Westy

 

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/Green--White-Analysis/339c3746-ed82-4f4d-94fa-5a5f4f129a59

 

I'm beginning to wonder, if teams can't run on us at all... and we force the pass... with MoWilk, Sheldon, Babin, Coples, Pace, amongst others all able to get to the QB, and Rex's philosophy of attacking the pass protection, do we have enough talent at Safety and enough pass rush to sort of "hide" our Corners in a lot of situations?

 

I think it may be possible, it certain seems like how the defense has been rebuilt.

 

So, if that works, and Geno doesn't turn the ball over at Sanchez rates, we might actually have something here... 

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Imagine if Geno was able to practice against a defense that wasn't out to kill everything on the other side of the LOS?  If he actually was able to develop, to see things in real time, walk-through, to understand the offense he's running and the actual defenses he's likely to run against?  That would be cool.  Geno will get attacked, harassed, beaten and eventually become gun-shy ala Mark Sanchez.  Because Defense is awesome and Rex has no interest in developing an offense.  Just destroying offense.  Hurray and high-five.  

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Imagine if Geno was able to practice against a defense that wasn't out to kill everything on the other side of the LOS?  If he actually was able to develop, to see things in real time, walk-through, to understand the offense he's running and the actual defenses he's likely to run against?  That would be cool.  Geno will get attacked, harassed, beaten and eventually become gun-shy ala Mark Sanchez.  Because Defense is awesome and Rex has no interest in developing an offense.  Just destroying offense.  Hurray and high-five.

So now the Jets' defense is responsible for Sanchez being terrible? From all the coaches to all the other players, is there anyone ever employed by the Jets who ISN'T responsible for this kid being a bad QB? I mean, other than Sanchez himself, since he's apparently the only one who's blameless.

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Imagine if Geno was able to practice against a defense that wasn't out to kill everything on the other side of the LOS?  If he actually was able to develop, to see things in real time, walk-through, to understand the offense he's running and the actual defenses he's likely to run against?  That would be cool.  Geno will get attacked, harassed, beaten and eventually become gun-shy ala Mark Sanchez.  Because Defense is awesome and Rex has no interest in developing an offense.  Just destroying offense.  Hurray and high-five.  

getting grenades thrown in your lap will make a baseball bat looks down right silly. Our defense makes Geno better. Period.

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the fact that geno probably won't be andrew luck has more to do with geno not being andrew luck and less to do with facing a tough defense at practice.

in fact, if the defense is THAT tough at practice that geno is getting killed, games should be easier, because most teams' defense isn't as good up front as the Jets' d.

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So now the Jets' defense is responsible for Sanchez being terrible? From all the coaches to all the other players, is there anyone ever employed by the Jets who ISN'T responsible for this kid being a bad QB? I mean, other than Sanchez himself, since he's apparently the only one who's blameless.

Sanchez just wanders through like an innocent lamb.

If you want to blame a defense being Sanchez's undoing, blame Baltimore's. he was almost never even average again after that game.

Edited by kay_gee

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage.  Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning.  A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl.  When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful.  We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage.  It's a problem for me.  It doesn't make Geno better.  It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws.  Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level.  I think we're doing it wrong.  Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.  

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

100 percent agree with this

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage.  Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning.  A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl.  When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful.  We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage.  It's a problem for me.  It doesn't make Geno better.  It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws.  Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level.  I think we're doing it wrong.  Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.  

 

:face:

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

You think it's better for him to face vanilla defenses that don't challenge him? Why, he won't see those in games. And isn't the point of the competition mantra to compete with everyone so everyone gets better.

People do better when they're challenged. From all indications Geno has improved compared to last year and that is not because he was babied. I have no problem with Geno being challenged by Rex everyday. And if we truly have one of the most complex defenses in the league then he should feel a lot more comfortable facing defenses that aren't. For me personally when I took a test I wanted the practice test to be harder than the real one.

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So now the Jets' defense is responsible for Sanchez being terrible? From all the coaches to all the other players, is there anyone ever employed by the Jets who ISN'T responsible for this kid being a bad QB? I mean, other than Sanchez himself, since he's apparently the only one who's blameless.

Sometimes a bad quarterback is a bad quarterback.

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

Take a look at the history of Jets drafts since Rex has arrived, and tell me what they draft more of; offense or defense? Then add in the picks traded for offensive players like Braylon, Holmes, Tebow, Sanchez, Greene, and Ivory (off the top of my head). Also take a glance at the free agent money spent on the offensive side of the ball vs. the defensive side. This all we draft is defense that gets repeated here over and over again is 100% false - unless your version of the draft only lasts one round.

Next, name the top 32 WRs in the NFL and let me know if Decker is one of them. He might be.

While I wouldn't mind Rex mixing it up a little bit and running the 1s against the 2s every once in a while, the idea that facing a ferocious defense that isn't allowed to touch you in practice somehow makes the QB worse, or stifles his ability to develop, is just silly.

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage.  Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning.  A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl.  When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful.  We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage.  It's a problem for me.  It doesn't make Geno better.  It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws.  Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level.  I think we're doing it wrong.  Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.  

Yes, Rex should tell the Defense when Geno comes in lay back, don't blitz and play soft so he can complete a few. It will build some confidence for Geno, Then when Sunday rolls around and he faces a REAL defense he will look like Sanchez.

Good Idea.

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

You're right. Other teams are going to go easy on Geno, so our coaches should do the same.

Poor guy has to deal with Rex, who won't make him win once in a while.

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Sanchez just wanders through like an innocent lamb.

If you want to blame a defense being Sanchez's undoing, blame Baltimore's. he was almost never even average again after that game.

Exactly. The Ravens beat the sh*t out of him that night. If only Rex had drafted a competent backup for Mangold...

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Take a look at the history of Jets drafts since Rex has arrived, and tell me what they draft more of; offense or defense? Then add in the picks traded for offensive players like Braylon, Holmes, Tebow, Sanchez, Greene, and Ivory (off the top of my head). Also take a glance at the free agent money spent on the offensive side of the ball vs. the defensive side. This all we draft is defense that gets repeated here over and over again is 100% false - unless your version of the draft only lasts one round.

Next, name the top 32 WRs in the NFL and let me know if Decker is one of them. He might be.

While I wouldn't mind Rex mixing it up a little bit and running the 1s against the 2s every once in a while, the idea that facing a ferocious defense that isn't allowed to touch you in practice somehow makes the QB worse, or stifles his ability to develop, is just silly.

last six #1 draft picks of the New York Jets:

 

Calvin Pryor                  DB

Dee Milliner                   DB

Sheldon Richardson     DL

Quinton Coples             DL

Mohammed Wilkerson   DL

Kyle Wilson                   DB

 

of course offense was drafted in the later rounds.  You couldn't very well never draft offensive players.  

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last six #1 draft picks of the New York Jets:

Calvin Pryor DB

Dee Milliner DB

Sheldon Richardson DL

Quinton Coples DL

Mohammed Wilkerson DL

Kyle Wilson DB

of course offense was drafted in the later rounds. You couldn't very well never draft offensive players.

Yeah, the later rounds. Like the second, where they've gone offense with every second rounder they've had with Rex. And like I said, overall, they've drafted more offense. A lot more when you figure in all the picks traded for offense.

But yeah, everyone knows the draft is over after the 32nd pick.

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You guys are a riot.  TLDR: Rex needs to put the effort into the offense, particularly the QB position, that he puts into the defense.  The guy lives for defense.  He openly admits to being clueless about offensive football. 

 

Personally, I'd like Rex to stay as far away from the offense as possible. I used to agree that he needed to be a more "complete" head coach, but I've changed my mind. Rex isn't going away as HC, but he can be neutered from further ruining the offense... steps towards that began when we fired Sporano, Rex's hand-picked "just like me" replacement to Schotty (who it took far too long to get rid of as well). 

 

Hire a legit OC. Get a QB. Get another QB. Get a project QB. Get a whole sh*tload of RBs. Bring in a ton of mid-round OL talent. Get a bunch of guys who can catch balls. Tell Rex to find a way to create turnovers on defense. 

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Yeah, the later rounds. Like the second, where they've gone offense with every second rounder they've had with Rex. And like I said, overall, they've drafted more offense. A lot more when you figure in all the picks traded for offense.

But yeah, everyone knows the draft is over after the 32nd pick.

 

There are no good players in the NFL selected after #32. None.

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There are no good players in the NFL selected after #32. None.

 

Well duh.  The fact that Mo Wilkerson was drafted all the way high up at #30, while Geno was taken way far down at #39 clearly proves Rex hates offense.

 

We also need to be sure to dismiss the Jets' trading up into the top 5 for a QB in Rex's very first draft and, you know, that little thing where none of this is actually even Rex's job.

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Well duh.  The fact that Mo Wilkerson was drafted all the way high up at #30, while Geno was taken way far down at #39 clearly proves Rex hates offense.

 

We also need to be sure to dismiss the Jets' trading up into the top 5 for a QB in Rex's very first draft and, you know, that little thing where none of this is actually even Rex's job.

 

That and we should be pampering Geno.  Playing two hand touch.  Being mean and playing tough D in practice is going to break his fragile mind.

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Yeah, the later rounds. Like the second, where they've gone offense with every second rounder they've had with Rex. And like I said, overall, they've drafted more offense. A lot more when you figure in all the picks traded for offense.

But yeah, everyone knows the draft is over after the 32nd pick.

 

Look, never going offense in the first round does look bad.  But, only when you eliminate context.  In reality, the way these drafts have fell, defense has made more sense from a BAP standpoint.  At least without the power of hindsight.

 

In 2010, it's not like there was an obvious pick over Wilson.  Would have been nice if we had the foresight to pick Gronkowski or Graham there.  But those weren't realistic first rounders at the time.

 

In 2011, after back to back AFCCGs, you weren't using your first pick to replace Sanchez with Kaepernick/Dalton.  And hell, we got Wilkerson.

 

In 2012, who do you take at 16 on offense?  Kendall Wright?  Doug Martin?  Stephen Hill?  Ashlon Jeffrey?  All would have been major reaches.  The mistake of that draft was not taking Russel Wilson, but you wouldn't have taken him at 16.

 

In 2013, it's been discussed ad naseum... Maybe we take a guard over Milliner?  Bad as Milliner has been, where would we be at the position without him?  Do you take Eifert over Richardson?  Cordelle Patterson?

 

In 2014, the argument is of course the QBs, but I personally didn't like any of them, or Brandon Cooks, who will benefit tremendously from being on the Saints.  But, more salient is the fact that safety was undoubtedly our weakest position, and we took the best one.

 

At the end of the day, it's tiring to hear how we never draft offense without realistic examples.  In my opinion, and disappointingly so, the drafts have fell in such a way there BAP was never an offensive player when we were on the board.

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Just think how great Geno would be if he practiced with offense only and NO defense on the field at all!!! Holy Crap!!! He'd turn into Peyton Freakin' Manning!!!!

 

Jim Mora made Peyton Manning. And then Dungy came in to fill in the missing holes to Manning's development. So maybe if we had those two then Sanchez would have been on his way to the HOF.  

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Ok I will blame Rex for a number of things but to blame him for the offense having to go against the defense in camp is ridiculous. How can you expect anyone to learn how to play QB if you do not throw obstacles at them that they will see live

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Look, never going offense in the first round does look bad.  But, only when you eliminate context.  In reality, the way these drafts have fell, defense has made more sense from a BAP standpoint.  At least without the power of hindsight.

 

In 2010, it's not like there was an obvious pick over Wilson.  Would have been nice if we had the foresight to pick Gronkowski or Graham there.  But those weren't realistic first rounders at the time.

 

In 2011, after back to back AFCCGs, you weren't using your first pick to replace Sanchez with Kaepernick/Dalton.  And hell, we got Wilkerson.

 

In 2012, who do you take at 16 on offense?  Kendall Wright?  Doug Martin?  Stephen Hill?  Ashlon Jeffrey?  All would have been major reaches.  The mistake of that draft was not taking Russel Wilson, but you wouldn't have taken him at 16.

 

In 2013, it's been discussed ad naseum... Maybe we take a guard over Milliner?  Bad as Milliner has been, where would we be at the position without him?  Do you take Eifert over Richardson?  Cordelle Patterson?

 

In 2014, the argument is of course the QBs, but I personally didn't like any of them, or Brandon Cooks, who will benefit tremendously from being on the Saints.  But, more salient is the fact that safety was undoubtedly our weakest position, and we took the best one.

 

At the end of the day, it's tiring to hear how we never draft offense without realistic examples.  In my opinion, and disappointingly so, the drafts have fell in such a way there BAP was never an offensive player when we were on the board.

 

Exactly.  Add in the fact that we coveted Tavon Austin, but watched as the Rams trade up to take him, and its a terrible argument to suggest we ignore offense even if you're only looking at the 1st round of drafts.  The way the board has fallen each year defense simply made more sense.  Any offensive player we took at our spots would have been major reaches.

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