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Westhoff speaketh


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If you haven't checked this out, you might want to... interesting point of view from Westy

 

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/Green--White-Analysis/339c3746-ed82-4f4d-94fa-5a5f4f129a59

 

I'm beginning to wonder, if teams can't run on us at all... and we force the pass... with MoWilk, Sheldon, Babin, Coples, Pace, amongst others all able to get to the QB, and Rex's philosophy of attacking the pass protection, do we have enough talent at Safety and enough pass rush to sort of "hide" our Corners in a lot of situations?

 

I think it may be possible, it certain seems like how the defense has been rebuilt.

 

So, if that works, and Geno doesn't turn the ball over at Sanchez rates, we might actually have something here... 

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Posted · Report post

Imagine if Geno was able to practice against a defense that wasn't out to kill everything on the other side of the LOS?  If he actually was able to develop, to see things in real time, walk-through, to understand the offense he's running and the actual defenses he's likely to run against?  That would be cool.  Geno will get attacked, harassed, beaten and eventually become gun-shy ala Mark Sanchez.  Because Defense is awesome and Rex has no interest in developing an offense.  Just destroying offense.  Hurray and high-five.  

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Posted · Report post

Imagine if Geno was able to practice against a defense that wasn't out to kill everything on the other side of the LOS?  If he actually was able to develop, to see things in real time, walk-through, to understand the offense he's running and the actual defenses he's likely to run against?  That would be cool.  Geno will get attacked, harassed, beaten and eventually become gun-shy ala Mark Sanchez.  Because Defense is awesome and Rex has no interest in developing an offense.  Just destroying offense.  Hurray and high-five.

So now the Jets' defense is responsible for Sanchez being terrible? From all the coaches to all the other players, is there anyone ever employed by the Jets who ISN'T responsible for this kid being a bad QB? I mean, other than Sanchez himself, since he's apparently the only one who's blameless.

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Posted · Report post

Imagine if Geno was able to practice against a defense that wasn't out to kill everything on the other side of the LOS?  If he actually was able to develop, to see things in real time, walk-through, to understand the offense he's running and the actual defenses he's likely to run against?  That would be cool.  Geno will get attacked, harassed, beaten and eventually become gun-shy ala Mark Sanchez.  Because Defense is awesome and Rex has no interest in developing an offense.  Just destroying offense.  Hurray and high-five.  

getting grenades thrown in your lap will make a baseball bat looks down right silly. Our defense makes Geno better. Period.

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Posted · Report post

the fact that geno probably won't be andrew luck has more to do with geno not being andrew luck and less to do with facing a tough defense at practice.

in fact, if the defense is THAT tough at practice that geno is getting killed, games should be easier, because most teams' defense isn't as good up front as the Jets' d.

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So now the Jets' defense is responsible for Sanchez being terrible? From all the coaches to all the other players, is there anyone ever employed by the Jets who ISN'T responsible for this kid being a bad QB? I mean, other than Sanchez himself, since he's apparently the only one who's blameless.

Sanchez just wanders through like an innocent lamb.

If you want to blame a defense being Sanchez's undoing, blame Baltimore's. he was almost never even average again after that game.

Edited by kay_gee
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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage.  Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning.  A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl.  When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful.  We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage.  It's a problem for me.  It doesn't make Geno better.  It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws.  Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level.  I think we're doing it wrong.  Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.  

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

100 percent agree with this
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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage.  Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning.  A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl.  When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful.  We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage.  It's a problem for me.  It doesn't make Geno better.  It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws.  Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level.  I think we're doing it wrong.  Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.  

 

:face:

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

You think it's better for him to face vanilla defenses that don't challenge him? Why, he won't see those in games. And isn't the point of the competition mantra to compete with everyone so everyone gets better.

People do better when they're challenged. From all indications Geno has improved compared to last year and that is not because he was babied. I have no problem with Geno being challenged by Rex everyday. And if we truly have one of the most complex defenses in the league then he should feel a lot more comfortable facing defenses that aren't. For me personally when I took a test I wanted the practice test to be harder than the real one.

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So now the Jets' defense is responsible for Sanchez being terrible? From all the coaches to all the other players, is there anyone ever employed by the Jets who ISN'T responsible for this kid being a bad QB? I mean, other than Sanchez himself, since he's apparently the only one who's blameless.

Sometimes a bad quarterback is a bad quarterback.
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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

Take a look at the history of Jets drafts since Rex has arrived, and tell me what they draft more of; offense or defense? Then add in the picks traded for offensive players like Braylon, Holmes, Tebow, Sanchez, Greene, and Ivory (off the top of my head). Also take a glance at the free agent money spent on the offensive side of the ball vs. the defensive side. This all we draft is defense that gets repeated here over and over again is 100% false - unless your version of the draft only lasts one round.

Next, name the top 32 WRs in the NFL and let me know if Decker is one of them. He might be.

While I wouldn't mind Rex mixing it up a little bit and running the 1s against the 2s every once in a while, the idea that facing a ferocious defense that isn't allowed to touch you in practice somehow makes the QB worse, or stifles his ability to develop, is just silly.

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Posted · Report post

Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage.  Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning.  A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl.  When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful.  We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage.  It's a problem for me.  It doesn't make Geno better.  It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws.  Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level.  I think we're doing it wrong.  Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.  

Yes, Rex should tell the Defense when Geno comes in lay back, don't blitz and play soft so he can complete a few. It will build some confidence for Geno, Then when Sunday rolls around and he faces a REAL defense he will look like Sanchez.

Good Idea.

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Holy crap...not blaming our defense for Sanchez's suckage. Blaming our HC for being so defense-centric that he doesn't give a young, developing QB a fair shot at learning. A big gnarly defense with exotic blitz packages and awkward alignments is great to have, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis should be in developing a franchise QB--at least if you want a realistic chance at winning a Superbowl. When Matt Ryan was drafted he was immediately made the priority and surrounded with talented lineman and receivers to give him the best opportunity to be successful. We draft defense every year, have a mediocre line, our #1 WR is #2 WR quality and our coach glows when his defense shuts down the O in a scrimmage. It's a problem for me. It doesn't make Geno better. It makes him run for his life and second guess his throws. Trial by fire should come after a QB has learned to compete at the pro level. I think we're doing it wrong. Happened to Sanchez, will likely happen with Geno and anyone else brought in as a rookie and thrown to the wolves.

You're right. Other teams are going to go easy on Geno, so our coaches should do the same.

Poor guy has to deal with Rex, who won't make him win once in a while.

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Sanchez just wanders through like an innocent lamb.

If you want to blame a defense being Sanchez's undoing, blame Baltimore's. he was almost never even average again after that game.

Exactly. The Ravens beat the sh*t out of him that night. If only Rex had drafted a competent backup for Mangold...

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He wears a red jersey in practice, so he should not be scared or shellshocked from our "exotic blitz packages."  I don't see how he is supposed to learn to 
"see things in real time" by slowing down his competition.  

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Rex's defense ruined Sanchez. I dig it. I could put dry rub on this thread and watch it cook for hours... 

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You guys are a riot.  TLDR: Rex needs to put the effort into the offense, particularly the QB position, that he puts into the defense.  The guy lives for defense.  He openly admits to being clueless about offensive football. 

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Take a look at the history of Jets drafts since Rex has arrived, and tell me what they draft more of; offense or defense? Then add in the picks traded for offensive players like Braylon, Holmes, Tebow, Sanchez, Greene, and Ivory (off the top of my head). Also take a glance at the free agent money spent on the offensive side of the ball vs. the defensive side. This all we draft is defense that gets repeated here over and over again is 100% false - unless your version of the draft only lasts one round.

Next, name the top 32 WRs in the NFL and let me know if Decker is one of them. He might be.

While I wouldn't mind Rex mixing it up a little bit and running the 1s against the 2s every once in a while, the idea that facing a ferocious defense that isn't allowed to touch you in practice somehow makes the QB worse, or stifles his ability to develop, is just silly.

last six #1 draft picks of the New York Jets:

 

Calvin Pryor                  DB

Dee Milliner                   DB

Sheldon Richardson     DL

Quinton Coples             DL

Mohammed Wilkerson   DL

Kyle Wilson                   DB

 

of course offense was drafted in the later rounds.  You couldn't very well never draft offensive players.  

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last six #1 draft picks of the New York Jets:

Calvin Pryor DB

Dee Milliner DB

Sheldon Richardson DL

Quinton Coples DL

Mohammed Wilkerson DL

Kyle Wilson DB

of course offense was drafted in the later rounds. You couldn't very well never draft offensive players.

Yeah, the later rounds. Like the second, where they've gone offense with every second rounder they've had with Rex. And like I said, overall, they've drafted more offense. A lot more when you figure in all the picks traded for offense.

But yeah, everyone knows the draft is over after the 32nd pick.

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You guys are a riot.  TLDR: Rex needs to put the effort into the offense, particularly the QB position, that he puts into the defense.  The guy lives for defense.  He openly admits to being clueless about offensive football. 

 

Personally, I'd like Rex to stay as far away from the offense as possible. I used to agree that he needed to be a more "complete" head coach, but I've changed my mind. Rex isn't going away as HC, but he can be neutered from further ruining the offense... steps towards that began when we fired Sporano, Rex's hand-picked "just like me" replacement to Schotty (who it took far too long to get rid of as well). 

 

Hire a legit OC. Get a QB. Get another QB. Get a project QB. Get a whole sh*tload of RBs. Bring in a ton of mid-round OL talent. Get a bunch of guys who can catch balls. Tell Rex to find a way to create turnovers on defense. 

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Yeah, the later rounds. Like the second, where they've gone offense with every second rounder they've had with Rex. And like I said, overall, they've drafted more offense. A lot more when you figure in all the picks traded for offense.

But yeah, everyone knows the draft is over after the 32nd pick.

 

There are no good players in the NFL selected after #32. None.

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There are no good players in the NFL selected after #32. None.

Never ever

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There are no good players in the NFL selected after #32. None.

 

Well duh.  The fact that Mo Wilkerson was drafted all the way high up at #30, while Geno was taken way far down at #39 clearly proves Rex hates offense.

 

We also need to be sure to dismiss the Jets' trading up into the top 5 for a QB in Rex's very first draft and, you know, that little thing where none of this is actually even Rex's job.

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Well duh.  The fact that Mo Wilkerson was drafted all the way high up at #30, while Geno was taken way far down at #39 clearly proves Rex hates offense.

 

We also need to be sure to dismiss the Jets' trading up into the top 5 for a QB in Rex's very first draft and, you know, that little thing where none of this is actually even Rex's job.

 

That and we should be pampering Geno.  Playing two hand touch.  Being mean and playing tough D in practice is going to break his fragile mind.

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