Scouting Report: Christian Hackenberg

[j4jets]

2 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

My plan is very simple.  I want Bryce and Christian learning from a cerebral pro who,has fun playing the game but has a solid work ethic.  Not a clown who forgets to set his watch and gets punched out over $600.00

Oh how I'd do anything for a QB that is so anti-Rex, guarantees no playoffs. 

[NYJ37/12]

Agree with the OP here. I think the Jets feel that with this schedule Geno and Fitz are pretty much even. I feel the Jets would like Fitz here to groom Hack above anything he can do this year on the field. We shall see. As of now, until the Jets make some money moves it doesn't matter.

[Big Blocker]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The gameday roster is 45, yes.  But you still have to count those QB's on your 53-man roster even if they don't dress on gameday.  And there's little chance Petty would make it onto the practice squad.  Someone else would sign him away.  We're not cutting Petty in an attempt to save roster space after investing a 4th rounder in him with the full knowledge he'd be a project QB.

If the news to date about Petty was really bad, maybe they would cut him.  But it hasn't been.  Smith Fans may not want to hear this, but Petty has more upside potential.  And as you say another team would almost certainly pick a fourth rounder who has been groomed for a year over someone who can't even draw a seventh round future pick, no doubt due to his putrid record.  That would be Smith, of course.

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Fitz went to harvard, we get it he's a very smart man but that hasn't translated on the football field.  He has turned it over at a very high level throughout his career and continualyl makes boneheaded decisions.  he was a good QB for us last year and hopefully will be this year but he's not a smart QB.

Another person who doesn't get the topic.  I'm not suggesting he's the answer at qb, just that he'd be a better mentor for Hackenberg.  

[JustInFudge]

I think its funny that a career journeyman who's got 1 winning season under his belt is considered some type of amazing mentor.  

Who has the guy mentored in his sh*tty 12 year career?  What makes you think he wants to?  He's already insulted by the Jets offer but now he's going to take what he views as a low ball offer to groom future QB's.

You guys are funny.

Roll with Geno, Petty and Hack.  Ride or die because Fitzpatrick does absolute nothing for this team whatsoever. 

 You know it (unless you're in denial), I know it and clearly the Jets brass knows it.

[pointman]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I guess my analogy went right over your head.  Just because  fitz hasn't been a great qb in this league doesn't mean he isn't a very smart  qb that would make him a better mentor to Hackenberg.  

Most of the great  qb coaches weren't great nfl qbs. 

Do you still not get it? 

LOL. Salty salty. I am happy for you that your analogy works to your liking. Players and coaches, still not the same. You'll be OK. Dry your eyes.

[nyjunc]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Another person who doesn't get the topic.  I'm not suggesting he's the answer at qb, just that he'd be a better mentor for Hackenberg.  

I was responding to someone else, not you, so that response had nothing to do w/ the original post.

[Big Blocker]

^

It is a fallacy to conclude that all interceptions are the result of bad decisions.  And that the decisions involved are evidence of if you will football stupidity.

At least Fitzpatrick has never fumbled while handling the ball behind his back, forgot where he is on the field on a frequent basis, run out of the end zone for no good reason and committed countless other Smith-type stupidities.

[Greenseed4]

The word, "Jets" in front of this thread title makes this thread waaay more interesting. 

[slats]

2 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

My plan is very simple.  I want Bryce and Christian learning from a cerebral pro who,has fun playing the game but has a solid work ethic.  Not a clown who forgets to set his watch and gets punched out over $600.00

This is not a plan, this is merely an opinion. If you'd like to develop it into an actual, full-fledged plan you'll need to explain what you're going to be paying Fitzpatrick and where that money's gonna come from. 

[Rangers9]

Here is part of the explanation on roster size http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640782-the-anatomy-of-a-53-man-roster-in-the-nfl. 46 of the 53 dress on Sunday and most teams are only dressing 2 Qbs but many have 3 on their active roster. So one guy usually the rookie doesn't dress. That's what they mostly did with Petty in 2015. So it would be tough to carry 4 out of your 53. I think that Petty is expendable. Last season he would have been claimed but this year probably not because his new team would have to carry him on their 53. So they'd then have to cut a Qb if they claim Petty. 

[Jetster]

It wasn't rumor regarding Geno playing better than Fitz in camp, it was reported by every Jet & Geno hating media scribe that was allowed to attend the camp workouts. Cimini & Mehta were both extolling Genos command of the offense, they reported the difference wasn't even close. The Jets started hot with Fitz at QB & there was no way Bowles could not stick with him all the way through. It was the right choice, and Fitz was making only 5 million I believe. They're offering a 2 million dollar raise reportedly.

Tells me everything I need to know. Bill Obrien is no dummy, why did he cut Fitz loose? Because you can't fool the defense with Fitz, his arm is just not strong enough for certain throws. Look at his film from last year, he literally has to wind up, really spread his legs to get zip on the ball. Has Rex ever lost to Fitz? Why would that change? (He beat him while his team showed up with their bags packed). Rex can't game plan Geno running for 35 yards on 1 of his all out blitzes. 

Fitz is a hold the fort guy, the 8-8 fort. What's the point really if signing him means cutting any young players?

[Beerfish]

"does anyone really believe that Fitz could win more games than Geno? "

 

Yes, next question?

[Mainejet]

4 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

My plan is very simple.  I want Bryce and Christian learning from a cerebral pro who,has fun playing the game but has a solid work ethic.  Not a clown who forgets to set his watch and gets punched out over $600.00

Well, That's obviously the plan for the Jets front office. Despite many dingbats on this site claiming Bryce Petty will get cut , the plan was always very clear and people could have seen it coming from a mile away. Now, that they have drafted Hackenberg, Mac still has every intention of resigning Fitz. When that happens? Possible even before the word gets out that Fitz had resigned, Geno is cut. When/if that happens it will bring me joy. The guy is a POS.

[Mainejet]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Looking at this upcoming schedule in 2016 does anyone really believe that Fitz could win more games than Geno? Last years schedule was probably one of the easiest I can remember. I know I'm going to get killed for this but I think Macc actually believes Geno will have just as much chance for success as Fitz and maybe more with his youth and athleticism.

Word out of last years camp was that Geno was way ahead of Fitz. As fans we always look at things through the eye of a needle but the coaches see a lot more than we do. I know I'm in the minority but with Petty not ready, Hack just brought in I'd love to see what Geno could do in Gaileys offense with Marshall, Decker, Enunwa, Amaro, Forte & Powell. Please don't bring up the Oakland game, the entire team was a no show, especially the defense. The Jets offense struggled when Powell was out in every game this year including the final. Was he available in Oakland? I don't remember. Geno got a whole HUMBLING year to see what it takes to be a successful QB and teammate in the NFL. 

He actually scrambled very well playing with much lesser players so it would be much tougher for defenses to squeeze the box on him. He throws a pretty seam pass and he's also much stronger on out throws than Fitz which could open the field more. So bring it on, my opinion is that Fitz shot his load last year vs inferior defenses, and we'll have just as much success this year with Geno as we would with Fitz but we end up keeping Mo and fielding a real kick azz defense ourselves, top 3 in the league. 

If Fitz does come back it's with his tail between his legs for short money because Macc feels the same way I do.

YES. I do. Fitz is far more responsible with the football. Geno is an idiot with the football. Fitz had a career year last season. When has Geno ever even sniffed so much as a decent season? Geno Smith is going to be cut immediately after the Jets resign Fitz.

[Augustiniak]

who cares what mccags says.  it's what he does and doesn't do that matters.  he drafted hack in the 2nd, that says a lot.  he hasn't overpaid fitz.  hasn't cut geno.  he's playing everyone against each other, preaching competition.  that's his plan.  

[Doggin94it]

3 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

My plan is very simple.  I want Bryce and Christian learning from a cerebral pro who,has fun playing the game but has a solid work ethic.  Not a clown who forgets to set his watch and gets punched out over $600.00

I have a different plan. Sign 2004 Peyton Manning, cut Geno.  I want Bryce and Christian learning from one of the best QBs of all time in his prime, not some clown with an epic beard.

Oh, what's that?  Plans have to be actionable to be meaningful?  Sorry, I thought we were discarding that rule for purposes of this thread.

[ylekram]

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

"does anyone really believe that Fitz could win more games than Geno? "

 

Yes, next question?

the real question should be "does anyone really believe that geno could win as many games as fitz?"

[Mainejet]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I think its funny that a career journeyman who's got 1 winning season under his belt is considered some type of amazing mentor.  

Who has the guy mentored in his sh*tty 12 year career?  What makes you think he wants to?  He's already insulted by the Jets offer but now he's going to take what he views as a low ball offer to groom future QB's.

You guys are funny.

Roll with Geno, Petty and Hack.  Ride or die because Fitzpatrick does absolute nothing for this team whatsoever. 

 You know it (unless you're in denial), I know it and clearly the Jets brass knows it.

WTF are you talking about? He's NOT considered some type of amazing mentor, but he is considered the best mentor we have on this team. I mean WTF are going to do? Have Geno doing the mentoring? That would be like trusting Pablo Escobar to teach children to be Christians. It's the BEST option for the Jets, not only as a starting QB, but also as a mentor.

[slats]

I don't think there's a big difference in the number of wins the team will get this year between starting Geno or Fitz. I just don't. Fitz was carried by his supporting cast more than he lifted the team. Geno would get most of them back (maybe an upgrade at RB), along with getting Amaro back, and having the arm to get something out of Devin Smith (who's a complete waste with Fitz under center). I also don't think that Fitz is needed here to mentor Hack and Petty. That's what we have a QB coach and offensive coordinator for. 

There's a lot of upside to this plan, even if there's a short term drop off in wins. First, the team saves $7-10-whatever it takes million against the cap. Second, Geno gets to play in Gaileys system, with these weapons, and maybe demonstrates some real improvement in his fourth year in the league. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing happened. If he either played well enough for the Jets to want to retain him, or well enough to get a big contract from someone else (netting a high comp pick) it's a major positive for the franchise. Everyone, even -I think- Fitz' biggest supporters, recognize that the Jets want to move on from Fitz ASAP. Geno has a better chance (however slim) of being the Jets long term solution at QB only because Fitz has no chance of being their long term solution. None. 

Save a huge chunk of cap space and (most likely) get a decent comp pick in two years in exchange for a win or two in a year where I don't expect to legitimately compete for a post season berth anyway? Doesn't sound like a terrible plan to me. 

[nyjunc]

40 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

^

It is a fallacy to conclude that all interceptions are the result of bad decisions.  And that the decisions involved are evidence of if you will football stupidity.

At least Fitzpatrick has never fumbled while handling the ball behind his back, forgot where he is on the field on a frequent basis, run out of the end zone for no good reason and committed countless other Smith-type stupidities.

Having watched Fitz in Buffalo and here I can conclude most of his INts were the result of boneheaded decisions.  No he hasn't had an around the back fumble so he's smarter than Geno- Yay!

[Augustiniak]

Just now, slats said:

I don't think there's a big difference in the number of wins the team will get this year between starting Geno or Fitz. I just don't. Fitz was carried by his supporting cast more than he lifted the team. Geno would get most of them back (maybe an upgrade at RB), along with getting Amaro back, and having the arm to get something out of Devin Smith (who's a complete waste with Fitz under center). I also don't think that Fitz is needed here to mentor Hack and Petty. That's what we have a QB coach and offensive coordinator for. 

There's a lot of upside to this plan, even if there's a short term drop off in wins. First, the team saves $7-10-whatever it takes million against the cap. Second, Geno gets to play in Gaileys system, with these weapons, and maybe demonstrates some real improvement in his fourth year in the league. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing happened. If he either played well enough for the Jets to want to retain him, or well enough to get a big contract from someone else (netting a high comp pick) it's a major positive for the franchise. Everyone, even -I think- Fitz' biggest supporters, recognize that the Jets want to move on from Fitz ASAP. Geno has a better chance (however slim) of being the Jets long term solution at QB only because Fitz has no chance of being their long term solution. None. 

Save a huge chunk of cap space and (most likely) get a decent comp pick in two years in exchange for a win or two in a year where I don't expect to legitimately compete for a post season berth anyway? Doesn't sound like a terrible plan to me. 

curious about the cap space.  if they sign fitz to a 1 year deal, they're still going to be way under next season when guys like harris (i think) come off the books.  so really, the cap is a 'this year only' issue.  if they don't sign fitz this year, who else at this point would they sign to make the savings worthwhile?

[section314]

The Jets struck lightening in a bottle last year with Fitz. The odds tell you that he will more than likely revert back to the mean, which is average at best. Geno is in his 4th year, so he is not an inexperienced player by any stretch. The Jets would be crazy to let him go without seeing what he can do with better talent around him. If it were my decision, Geno plays, Petty is #2, and tell Fitz thanks for your service. Do I think Geno will be the "guy" ultimately? No, but I'm going to let him have his chance to prove it on the field. Certainly not going to kick him to the curb for a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[Jetster]

1 minute ago, Mainejet said:

YES. I do. Fitz is far more responsible with the football. Geno is an idiot with the football. Fitz had a career year last season. When has Geno ever even sniffed so much as a decent season? Geno Smith is going to be cut immediately after the Jets resign Fitz.

Hey, if you want to push all of your chips to the middle of the table with Fitz (never been to the playoffs, wants well over 10 million to come back, sh*t the bed with 2 huge picks vs Rex Bills, will face much better defenses in 2016, WILL NOT BE THE STARTING QB FOR NY JETS IN 2017) be my guest. I'd rather move on, give Geno the opportunity to play with actual NFL players (other than Decker not 1 WR he played with is a starting WR in the entire NFL, with 3 of them completely out of football). Now he has WRs that actually FIGHT for the ball, unlike Clyde Gates, Stephen Hill, David Nelson, lol, it's funny writing these names. Plus, when you really look at it, Marty didn't even play Bilal Powell, it was 90% Ivory who has mittens for hands. Geno played with what might have been the worst group of skill players other than Decker ever assembled,lol. (And Decker had a hamstring the ENTIRE YEAR).

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Having watched Fitz in Buffalo and here I can conclude most of his INts were the result of boneheaded decisions.  No he hasn't had an around the back fumble so he's smarter than Geno- Yay!

lol 

 

[cant wait]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Having watched Fitz in Buffalo and here I can conclude most of his INts were the result of boneheaded decisions.  No he hasn't have an around the back fumble so he's smarter than Geno- Yay!

Yeah now let's pay him $16M a year because he's got a great personality!

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

curious about the cap space.  if they sign fitz to a 1 year deal, they're still going to be way under next season when guys like harris (i think) come off the books.  so really, the cap is a 'this year only' issue.  if they don't sign fitz this year, who else at this point would they sign to make the savings worthwhile?

There's no money now to pay Fitz. So that money will have to come from restructures of other deals on the books that will push his salary forward into future years. And for what? A win or two? Maybe a .500 season? Very short-sighted reasoning. Rather save the money, and get a comp pick in 2018. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, slats said:

There's no money now to pay Fitz. So that money will have to come from restructures of other deals on the books that will push his salary forward into future years. And for what? A win or two? Maybe a .500 season? Very short-sighted reasoning. Rather save the money, and get a comp pick in 2018. 

that's a good question.  but just looking at this roster there does not appear to be anyone on offense they're going to have to give a long-term contract to anytime soon, so capspace shouldn't be much of an issue.  maybe hack if he pans out.  

[Warfish]

28 minutes ago, Jetster said:

It wasn't rumor.......Cimini & Mehta were both extolling Genos command of the offense, they reported the difference wasn't even close.

There is your first mistake, taking anything these two chuckleheads say as truth.

[Jetster]

42 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Another person who doesn't get the topic.  I'm not suggesting he's the answer at qb, just that he'd be a better mentor for Hackenberg.  

That's what we have Palmer & Gailey for! What can Fitz teach Hack? How to throw low & outside? Any ex-vet QB could mentor Petty & Hack how to work around the LOS ie. snap counts, quick snaps ect. (It's not rocket science).

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

WTF are you talking about? He's NOT considered some type of amazing mentor, but he is considered the best mentor we have on this team. I mean WTF are going to do? Have Geno doing the mentoring? That would be like trusting Pablo Escobar to teach children to be Christians. It's the BEST option for the Jets, not only as a starting QB, but also as a mentor.

I'm talking about not having some sh*tty journeyman QB who's had 1 winning season in his career mentoring young QB's.  He knows nothing about winning or about being a good QB, for that matter.  And just to clarify, he's not on the team.  So there's that too. 

This might be a wild, crazy idea but I think the HC, OC and QB coach, could all potentially be great mentors in charge of developing the QB's.  Wild idea, I know. 

 

[Mainejet]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Hey, if you want to push all of your chips to the middle of the table with Fitz (never been to the playoffs, wants well over 10 million to come back, sh*t the bed with 2 huge picks vs Rex Bills, will face much better defenses in 2016, WILL NOT BE THE STARTING QB FOR NY JETS IN 2017) be my guest. I'd rather move on, give Geno the opportunity to play with actual NFL players (other than Decker not 1 WR he played with is a starting WR in the entire NFL, with 3 of them completely out of football). Now he has WRs that actually FIGHT for the ball, unlike Clyde Gates, Stephen Hill, David Nelson, lol, it's funny writing these names. Plus, when you really look at it, Marty didn't even play Bilal Powell, it was 90% Ivory who has mittens for hands. Geno played with what might have been the worst group of skill players other than Decker ever assembled,lol. (And Decker had a hamstring the ENTIRE YEAR).

Move on to WHO genius?! There are no options right now. The CS is not going to start Petty or Hack, it's been said already they are NOT ready to start. The CS already knows that Geno will never be the answer. Fitz is the BEST and ONLY option for the Jets in 2016.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Looking at this upcoming schedule in 2016 does anyone really believe that Fitz could win more games than Geno? Last years schedule was probably one of the easiest I can remember. I know I'm going to get killed for this but I think Macc actually believes Geno will have just as much chance for success as Fitz and maybe more with his youth and athleticism.

Word out of last years camp was that Geno was way ahead of Fitz. As fans we always look at things through the eye of a needle but the coaches see a lot more than we do. I know I'm in the minority but with Petty not ready, Hack just brought in I'd love to see what Geno could do in Gaileys offense with Marshall, Decker, Enunwa, Amaro, Forte & Powell. Please don't bring up the Oakland game, the entire team was a no show, especially the defense. The Jets offense struggled when Powell was out in every game this year including the final. Was he available in Oakland? I don't remember. Geno got a whole HUMBLING year to see what it takes to be a successful QB and teammate in the NFL. 

He actually scrambled very well playing with much lesser players so it would be much tougher for defenses to squeeze the box on him. He throws a pretty seam pass and he's also much stronger on out throws than Fitz which could open the field more. So bring it on, my opinion is that Fitz shot his load last year vs inferior defenses, and we'll have just as much success this year with Geno as we would with Fitz but we end up keeping Mo and fielding a real kick azz defense ourselves, top 3 in the league. 

If Fitz does come back it's with his tail between his legs for short money because Macc feels the same way I do.

I think Geno could have successfully missed the playoffs last year as well...so yeah, Geno, Petty and Hack.  Ride or die. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Mainejet said:

Move on to WHO genius?! There are no options right now. The CS is not going to start Petty or Hack, it's been said already they are NOT ready to start. The CS already knows that Geno will never be the answer. Fitz is the BEST and ONLY option for the Jets in 2016.

bowles said it's not a big deal fitz isn't signed b/c he knows the offense. i think they expect him to be there in 2016, and maybe in 2017 if it's for less money and it's understood he's there to be the backup to hack.  hack will be starting in 2017 and may start later this season.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, section314 said:

The Jets struck lightening in a bottle last year with Fitz. The odds tell you that he will more than likely revert back to the mean, which is average at best. Geno is in his 4th year, so he is not an inexperienced player by any stretch. The Jets would be crazy to let him go without seeing what he can do with better talent around him. If it were my decision, Geno plays, Petty is #2, and tell Fitz thanks for your service. Do I think Geno will be the "guy" ultimately? No, but I'm going to let him have his chance to prove it on the field. Certainly not going to kick him to the curb for a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Jets Fans in a nutshell.

Kick the 31 TD, 4,000 Yard 10 win QB to the curb, because our 5 win-a-year bust of a young QB "just needs a fair chance", the single most overused phrase in Jets QB Discussion history.  For a guy we know is no leader, does nothing for our future QB's, and the fan himself admits "isn't the guy" anyway.

If the Jets were run the way fans want, we'd be 2-14 every single year, and no veteran would ever sign with us, and we'd be in a permanent state of non-competitive rebuilding.