Bowles Sees no Need to Play Young QB’s

[Larz]

This again?

You don't go to the scrubs untill you are eliminated from the playoffs

This isn't difficult

[Larz]

4 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Su

p

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

This again?

You don't go to the scrubs untill you are eliminated from the playoffs

This isn't difficult

Should I tell him you guys?

[Beerfish]

Matt Moore gives us the best chance to win.

[Bugg]

Basically 3 years into Maccagnan/Bowles and the Jets are arguably even worse than the day they ditched Idzik and Rex Ryan. But with safeties. 

[Jetster]

Your sticking with a 38 year old QB coming off 4 losses in 5 games, after getting beat by an old scrub QB you jettisoned the year before playing his 1st game of the season without his #1 WR. Give me a f*cking brake Todd! I won't be watching your next 4 losses in a row. Change comes from indifference. I'll be happier without watching some 38 year old stiff wobbling into another sack. Ridiculous.

[Dink and Drunk]

Suppose McCown is infact the best QB on the roster, and the young QBs don't have starter potential. Would you rather:

1. Play McCown to let the other skill position players get experience playing with a better QB?

2. Play a young QB for tank reasons?

Personally, I would choose #1

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

It's gonna be a looooong bye week.

Don't worry and hold your horses everyone,  few more losses and all of our wishes will come true. Petty and Hackenburg will play don't think they won't play. I personally don't think that either one is the solution, but they'll get their try outs once more.

Losing fixes everything.

In some ways I don’t want Petty to play because if Petty comes in and were to play well then it would prove that the whole Jets organization is totally incompetent.  

[Beerfish]

24 minutes ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Suppose McCown is infact the best QB on the roster, and the young QBs don't have starter potential. Would you rather:

1. Play McCown to let the other skill position players get experience playing with a better QB?

2. Play a young QB for tank reasons?

Personally, I would choose #1

1. You do not know about players until they are given a true live action reg season play. 

2. If these guys can't play they why are they still in the team, at all?  Why was not at least one if not both cut in the off season.  If mccown gets hurt you may as well have another jag vet.

3. If there is any doubt about the other two qbs then next year once again they will not know if they can play.

The Browns for as sh*tty as they are at least know for sure that none of the guys they have played this year, hogan, kizer, kessler can play at all.

McCown is not long for this league and is not such a great QB that he is miles ahead of these guys,

All i can say is if they go this route all year then there is no way in hell either petty or hack should be in camp at all next year, no way in hell.

 

[Dink and Drunk]

14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

1. You do not know about players until they are given a true live action reg season play. 

I believe this is an overstatement. Do they need to test "Beerfish" and "Dink and Drunk" just to make sure? It is at least plausible Hack has some obvious issues that will prevent him from being a viable QB, and he has failed to improve on those issues. Perhaps it is mechanical. Maybe he has failed to pick up the playbook. Perhaps his accuracy is way way off. Maybe he throws more picks than completions in practice.  

 

14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

2. If these guys can't play they why are they still in the team, at all?  Why was not at least one if not both cut in the off season.  If mccown gets hurt you may as well have another jag vet.

I will give one explanation: this offseason your FO could have hoped that one of these two QBs would turn the corner and develop. Neither has shown any progress. Do you have any replacement level QBs in mind? Would they be expensive? Not worth it if the JAG is not the answer either.

14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

3. If there is any doubt about the other two qbs then next year once again they will not know if they can play.

My whole post presupposes that we know they can't. Everyone thinks that Todd is messing up. I asked people to suppose the depth chart actually reflected both ability and potential. 

14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The Browns for as sh*tty as they are at least know for sure that none of the guys they have played this year, hogan, kizer, kessler can play at all.

I think the Jets did the smarter thing. The Browns have been a joke for so long that college QBs are threatening to not sign for them. The Browns should have gone with Kessler as the starter and make actually win it. Perhaps give Kizer garbage time snaps. Many Browns fans are complaining about the exact opposite things as Jets fans, it is amazing actually. 

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, Stark said:

Nope. I don't think Bowles knows what the heck he is doing. Mac needs to get Lil Chris Johnson to agree to move on from him. 

Well if they lose out Bowles will definitely get hired. But Chris Johnson has to do his own evaluation of Macc as well.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Dink and Drunk said:

I believe this is an overstatement. Do they need to test "Beerfish" and "Dink and Drunk" just to make sure? It is at least plausible Hack has some obvious issues that will prevent him from being a viable QB, and he has failed to improve on those issues. Perhaps it is mechanical. Maybe he has failed to pick up the playbook. Perhaps his accuracy is way way off. Maybe he throws more picks than completions in practice.  

 

I will give one explanation: this offseason your FO could have hoped that one of these two QBs would turn the corner and develop. Neither has shown any progress. Do you have any replacement level QBs in mind? Would they be expensive? Not worth it if the JAG is not the answer either.

My whole post presupposes that we know they can't. Everyone thinks that Todd is messing up. I asked people to suppose the depth chart actually reflected both ability and potential. 

I think the Jets did the smarter thing. The Browns have been a joke for so long that college QBs are threatening to not sign for them. The Browns should have gone with Kessler as the starter and make actually win it. Perhaps give Kizer garbage time snaps. Many Browns fans are complaining about the exact opposite things as Jets fans, it is amazing actually. 

- You can ALWAYS find a vet jag that will be better than a rookie QB.  Always.  Jared Goff should still be sitting on the bench because they could have found a vet jag better than him last year, and because he never would have played they could get another jag this year.

- Pick and old jag qb, call matt flyn call josh johnson, call nick foles.  If these guys are so bad that they are not worthy to play ahead of a 38 year old mediocre qb on a team that is no making the playoffs they they have no future and should be gone now, as in at the end of camp.

- Potential there is a good one, what potential does josh mccown have?

- I could care less hos awful the browns have been for years, they know now that none of their young guys are any good, proof from this year.  They will draft a qb high next year.  The jets come camp time next year will have a vet jag, a newly drafted QB and one of the guys here now.  The vet jag will start.

Fitzpatrick, Fitzpatrick, mccown, mccown again or some other vet jag.  If you think that is good qb handling I don;t know what to say.

[Dink and Drunk]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

- You can ALWAYS find a vet jag that will be better than a rookie QB.  Always.  Jared Goff should still be sitting on the bench because they could have found a vet jag better than him last year, and because he never would have played they could get another jag this year.

- Pick and old jag qb, call matt flyn call josh johnson, call nick foles.  If these guys are so bad that they are not worthy to play ahead of a 38 year old mediocre qb on a team that is no making the playoffs they they have no future and should be gone now, as in at the end of camp.

- Potential there is a good one, what potential does josh mccown have?

- I could care less hos awful the browns have been for years, they know now that none of their young guys are any good, proof from this year.  They will draft a qb high next year.  The jets come camp time next year will have a vet jag, a newly drafted QB and one of the guys here now.  The vet jag will start.

Fitzpatrick, Fitzpatrick, mccown, mccown again or some other vet jag.  If you think that is good qb handling I don;t know what to say.

Perhaps I was not clear, mb. My point was that having competent QB play means that the OC can actually game-plan. The entire offense can prepare as if they are trying to win the game. WRs can practice option routes. The team can practice audibles. The young offensive players can learn to run NFL full blown plays.

I never tried to imply Josh Mccown has future potential. I meant that the 2 young QBs won't ever even get to McCown's level (I am not sure this is true of course. I invited us suppose it was. The FO/HC strategy only makes if they think it is true).

Furthermore, I did not say you could not find a JAG vet QB. I asked if it was worth the cost to do it now.

It seems clear AF to me that you all draft a QB. If you don't you should revolt. But I actually think the FO/HC strategy makes sense if we assume that Hack & CO. are complete garbage. 

[DoubleDown]

Jets fans need to accept reality.  McCown is the starting quarterback until the Jets are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs or he goes down due to injury.

The organization views Petty as nothing more than backup quarterback material.  Hackenberg is not ready.

All the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change the mindset of the man making this decision.  He's not about to throw away a season of progress and exceeded expectations to risk it all by making an uncharacteristic aggressive move.

This season is truly shaping up to be a worst case scenario for the Jets.  No playoffs, no front office changes, no answers at quarterback, and a mediocre pick in the middle of the round. At least some of the young players are showing promise and development, but it's tough to say at this juncture whether it's enough progress from enough players or more of a smoke and mirrors situation. I've been fooled before.

[BrickTamland]

Haha (Nelson voice). This guy is so stupid.

[August]

In before Case Keenum is the starting quarterback next season 

[nycdan]

Somehow Watson, Kizer, Brisset, Trubisky, Cody Kessler, Nathan Peterman, Brett Hundley, Kevin Hogan and Tom Savage have all found at least an opportunity to take a snap behind center this season.  Meanwhile on the Jets, the coach only has eyes for his 38 year-old vet who is just good enough to not get blown out too often but falls apart in the 4th quarter in almost every game he plays.  No matter how bad you think Petty might be, he likely can't be worse than watching paint dry which is what we get with McCown and might just surprise a few folks and be decent.  

Everyone who has written him off seems to be very good at ignoring the fact that he played exceedingly well this preseason despite getting buried behind Hack by Bowles.  His injury (another lame excuse) is long healed.  Almost any other team would have gotten him on the field by now.  Heck, we will probably see Davis Webb on the field for the Giants this season.  

Seriuosly...if you are actually supporting the continued presence of McCown at this point, you have to ask yourself if sniffing glue is really for you.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, NJ said:

Newsflash - you can play the game to win with a QB you've invested a relatively high draft pick on to prove out what you may want to do next in your personnel strategy. That player may not give you the absolute best chance to win the game that means nothing - but unfortunately for your "Gipper" mentality - the ability to potentially make your team stronger is set up to favor teams with worse records. As it should be. End of real story. 

Dude....seriously? 

Read the posts first.  Everyone for 8 weeks is bitching about us winning and why we are trying to win.  Newsflash, because that is what players and coaches do.  So if that means McCown is REALLY the best choice, then he will be put out there unfortunately. 

I would LOVE to see Hack and Petty out there.  They should be playing, to see what we have.  But unfortunately, Bowles sees things differently on how we should be trying to win. 

[Jetster]

8 hours ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Suppose McCown is infact the best QB on the roster, and the young QBs don't have starter potential. Would you rather:

1. Play McCown to let the other skill position players get experience playing with a better QB?

2. Play a young QB for tank reasons?

Personally, I would choose #1

Then they should both be fired if that is the case for passing on Watson. That's how I would look at your question if I owned this Jets team.

[Jetster]

8 hours ago, Dink and Drunk said:

Perhaps I was not clear, mb. My point was that having competent QB play means that the OC can actually game-plan. The entire offense can prepare as if they are trying to win the game. WRs can practice option routes. The team can practice audibles. The young offensive players can learn to run NFL full blown plays.

I never tried to imply Josh Mccown has future potential. I meant that the 2 young QBs won't ever even get to McCown's level (I am not sure this is true of course. I invited us suppose it was. The FO/HC strategy only makes if they think it is true).

Furthermore, I did not say you could not find a JAG vet QB. I asked if it was worth the cost to do it now.

It seems clear AF to me that you all draft a QB. If you don't you should revolt. But I actually think the FO/HC strategy makes sense if we assume that Hack & CO. are complete garbage. 

I get what your saying but how many games of old jag are enough? I think it's 9 after that ball sack smashing loss to your old jettisoned Jag QB Fitz! This false narrative that this Jet team has any chance of getting to the playoffs after the way they performed on Sunday is ludicrous. 

[nyjunc]

when we lose that 8th game and are basically officially out he needs to play one of the young guys and I believe he will.  he may wait until that 9th loss but I expect it will happen.

[Skeet Ulrich]

30 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

when we lose that 8th game and are basically officially out he needs to play one of the young guys and I believe he will.  he may wait until that 9th loss but I expect it will happen.

Yeah I'm not going to take anything Bowles says as gospel. They're still under the delusion that they're going to run the table and make the playoffs. However, once they get that 9th loss if McCown starts, fire everyone.

 

[MaxAF]

Most will disagree with me on this, however McCown's numbers and performance doesn't warrant him being benched. He's middle of the pack with NFL QB's, (ranked 13th) he's playing well. The Sunday loss to the Bucs wasn't on McCown. Penalties and a O-line that couldn't hold back water is what I credit the loss to. The Defense held up well and kept the Jets in the game but they were on the field way too long and were gassed in the 4th Qtr. The Jets were just flat Sunday. Winters had a horrendous game with penalties and he just got beat almost every play. Bowles job is to win games not evaluate QB's for 2018. No coach in the NFL will ever throw in the towel, sacrifice losses to evaluate next years QBs. The coaches work with the QBs every day.  Last year he kept Fitz playing way too long. This year McCown's play doesn't justify a benching. I'm not a big fan of Bowles right now, not to say as he matures as a HC he could be better. Last week many were singing his praises, this week he needs to be fired. Oh the fickle fans of the NY Jets. I was hoping the Bills game would put them on a path to make a run, but it was the same ol' Jets. And the schedule doesn't get any easier. They needed that win against the Bucs.

[Skeet Ulrich]

6 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

Most will disagree with me on this, however McCown's numbers and performance doesn't warrant him being benched. He's middle of the pack with NFL QB's, (ranked 13th) he's playing well. 

This is not seeing the forest for the trees. Explain to me why you are starting a 38 year old QB in a non-playoff year. Unless McCown is going to be the QB in 2018(which I wholeheartedly believe will happen, at least to start the year), it makes no sense.

[jetspenguin]

ok so what he really said was........

 

1. I already saw Hackenburg and there is no way in hell I am starting him over Josh unless they tie me down and whip me. 

2. I already saw Petty and this is the second coaching staff that believe he is nothing more than a backup. We dont need to play him to see that. 

3. We are gonna lose the same amount of games no matter who plays so the fans who want a new QB will still get one.

4. I need the team to still feel we are fighting to win every game and not quit on me. They all saw how the QB's looked, if I switch they give up. 

5. I hate the press as much as Belichicken but when he doesnt tell them shyt he is praised, when I dont I am incompetent. Bias much?

[MaxAF]

1 hour ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

This is not seeing the forest for the trees. Explain to me why you are starting a 38 year old QB in a non-playoff year. Unless McCown is going to be the QB in 2018(which I wholeheartedly believe will happen, at least to start the year), it makes no sense.

As a HC there is no such thing as a non-playoff year. Each week a team plans to win unless you clinch a playoff spot and the game is meaningless. The Jets are still mathematically in the hunt for a playoff spot. If the coach portrays an image of, oh well this season is over let's put in Hack and see what he will do, the rest of the team has no motivation to play and risk injury. I've said here many times before, until McCown gets hurt or the team is mathematically out of the playoffs we won't even get a sniff of the youngbloods.

[Skeet Ulrich]

3 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

As a HC there is no such thing as a non-playoff year. Each week a team plans to win unless you clinch a playoff spot and the game is meaningless. The Jets are still mathematically in the hunt for a playoff spot. If the coach portrays an image of, oh well this season is over let's put in Hack and see what he will do, the rest of the team has no motivation to play and risk injury. I've said here many times before, until McCown gets hurt or the team is mathematically out of the playoffs we won't even get a sniff of the youngbloods.

I agree. Now when the Jets get their 9th loss, is there a reason not to play Hackenburg or Petty? I understand(though I don't agree) with them starting McCown after the bye.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

This is not seeing the forest for the trees. Explain to me why you are starting a 38 year old QB in a non-playoff year. Unless McCown is going to be the QB in 2018(which I wholeheartedly believe will happen, at least to start the year), it makes no sense.

Yep.  He may be the QB in 2018, but we need to be looking ahead to 2019 and beyond.  Hackenberg, for instance, is the only QB on the roster under contract thru 2019. 

We know beyond a shadow of a doubt McCown won't be a starting QB for any team in the league by 2019 at 40 years old.  He might not even be on a roster by then. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Coaching staff must believe Petty and Hack are terrible and do not want to prove that to the rest of the league, maybe to create some doubt during the draft? or for trade value?

Advice from Arians on older QB's?

I don't know, nothing else really makes sense, this is an insane statement to make unless he really thinks the playoffs are possible, shocking

 

 

[SMC]

This is really the worst possible season for the Jets.  Relying on a journeyman QB to be slightly worse than mediocre which prevents them from (1) getting a high pick for a needed QB and (2) develop the young QBs on the roster.

[ARodJetsFan]

9 hours ago, nycdan said:

Somehow Watson, Kizer, Brisset, Trubisky, Cody Kessler, Nathan Peterman, Brett Hundley, Kevin Hogan and Tom Savage have all found at least an opportunity to take a snap behind center this season.  Meanwhile on the Jets, the coach only has eyes for his 38 year-old vet who is just good enough to not get blown out too often but falls apart in the 4th quarter in almost every game he plays.  No matter how bad you think Petty might be, he likely can't be worse than watching paint dry which is what we get with McCown and might just surprise a few folks and be decent.  

Everyone who has written him off seems to be very good at ignoring the fact that he played exceedingly well this preseason despite getting buried behind Hack by Bowles.  His injury (another lame excuse) is long healed.  Almost any other team would have gotten him on the field by now.  Heck, we will probably see Davis Webb on the field for the Giants this season.  

Seriuosly...if you are actually supporting the continued presence of McCown at this point, you have to ask yourself if sniffing glue is really for you.

100% accurate and correct.

There is absolutely nothing to gain by allowing McCown to keep starting.

Once the Jets dropped below .500 - this team should have been handed over to Petty.

Any other decision is counterproductive and not in the best interest of the team's future.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, MaxAF said:

Most will disagree with me on this, however McCown's numbers and performance doesn't warrant him being benched. He's middle of the pack with NFL QB's, (ranked 13th) he's playing well. The Sunday loss to the Bucs wasn't on McCown. Penalties and a O-line that couldn't hold back water is what I credit the loss to. The Defense held up well and kept the Jets in the game but they were on the field way too long and were gassed in the 4th Qtr. The Jets were just flat Sunday. Winters had a horrendous game with penalties and he just got beat almost every play. Bowles job is to win games not evaluate QB's for 2018. No coach in the NFL will ever throw in the towel, sacrifice losses to evaluate next years QBs. The coaches work with the QBs every day.  Last year he kept Fitz playing way too long. This year McCown's play doesn't justify a benching. I'm not a big fan of Bowles right now, not to say as he matures as a HC he could be better. Last week many were singing his praises, this week he needs to be fired. Oh the fickle fans of the NY Jets. I was hoping the Bills game would put them on a path to make a run, but it was the same ol' Jets. And the schedule doesn't get any easier. They needed that win against the Bucs.

You are right, I disagree. McClown is not a middle of the pack QB in game impact, he is a middle of the pack in EFFICIENCY  which is a function of scheme and padding your stats with 3rd down checkdowns instead of trying to make a play. He consistently chokes under pressure. Bowles learned nothing from Fitz he wants essentially his older clone. Bowles will not start a young QB unless forced to. Ever. I would fire him today.

We should have gone into camp with Hack, Mahomes or Watson (whoever we had higher rated), Petty and Kyle Sloter who we should have picked in the 7th and ran a REAL QB competition. At this point we would have some clarity at QB, instead of a bigger question mark than the beginning of the season.

God I hate what Bowles is doing to this team. Make no mistake, Bowles is hurting this franchise by even still being here, trying to protect his job.

 

[JohnnyLV]

11 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

100% accurate and correct.

There is absolutely nothing to gain by allowing McCown to keep starting.

Once the Jets dropped below .500 - this team should have been handed over to Petty.

Any other decision is counterproductive and not in the best interest of the team's future.

FWIW, Polian thought McClown should have only started until Petty was healthy. He was OK starting Hack too but he thought starting McClown was the worst thing the Jets could do and said it all year.

[UnitedWhofans]

The weird thing is that Jets fans want to see the young QBs play, yet are worried about the Giants drafting a franchise QB because it would take away the Jets doing that. 

That seems a bit at odds. If you don't believe in the young QBs why would you play them?

If you do believe in the young QBs, why would you care about draft position for a QB?

[Beerfish]

44 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Coaching staff must believe Petty and Hack are terrible and do not want to prove that to the rest of the league, maybe to create some doubt during the draft? or for trade value?

Advice from Arians on older QB's?

I don't know, nothing else really makes sense, this is an insane statement to make unless he really thinks the playoffs are possible, shocking

 

 

Arians sticking with Carson Palmer the last two years has basically sunk any chance that team had to contend.