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Let's Ask another way, Which QB would you NOT want to get at 3

Jetstream

By Jetstream
in NY Jets Forum

Let's Ask another way, Which QB would you NOT want to get at 3?  

133 members have voted

  1. 1. Staying at 3 and ANY of these 4 QB's are still available, who's your Least Favorite?


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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

As opposed to our talent evaluators at JN. LOL. Yeah, they only played the position at the highest level. What do they know about what makes a great QB.

I played tennis at a high level back in the day and I can tell you I can see things when I watch that no one who has never played would even think to look for. Their opinions most definitely matter. The question is: what are they seeing that makes them excited/convinced that someone with Allen's pedestrian stats is going to be a big time QB? It's obviously more than arm strength. I'm guessing that most are isolating out his best throws and are aware that he's doing something that is above any other prospect. Allen at his best -- outstanding; Allen at his worst -- baffling. That's precisely the problem with evaluation through stats. It's a fool's errand without context and detail.

I wasn’t exactly trying to compare any JN evaluation to Marino, ect.

My point being not everyone who slung a football around at a high level can see the ability in others.

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Long Island Leprechaun

Long Island Leprechaun

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Posted
1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I wasn’t exactly trying to compare any JN evaluation to Marino, ect.

My point being not everyone who slung a football around at a high level can see the ability in others.

People here do that sh*t routinely... "I know more than all the crack-head TV analysts.." "I know more than that doofus, Phil Simms." GM's? Fools and fakers. But our own JN couch-surfers? Geniuses.

Who would you cite as a "high level NFL QB" who can't see the ability/potential in a prospect? Terry Bradshaw is dumb as a post in most areas, but I would bet he would give you a better evaluation of a pro QB prospect than ANY poster here, unless maybe he's really Joe Namath. Are you Joe Namath, perhaps? then I'll give you some slack.

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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3 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

People here do that sh*t routinely... "I know more than all the crack-head TV analysts.." "I know more than that doofus, Phil Simms." GM's? Fools and fakers. But our own JN couch-surfers? Geniuses.

Who would you cite as a "high level NFL QB" who can't see the ability/potential in a prospect? Terry Bradshaw is dumb as a post in most areas, but I would bet he would give you a better evaluation of a pro QB prospect than ANY poster here, unless maybe he's really Joe Namath. Are you Joe Namath, perhaps? then I'll give you some slack.

I wasn’t comparing the two..you are going on about nothing right now lol..all I said was IN GENERAL just because you succeeded doesn’t mean you can see potential in others that can succeed.

That is all I said. You are making this out to be more than what it is.

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derp

derp

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5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Asking this question another way: which QB is most likely to be ruined by Maccagnan and Bowles being awful at their jobs?

Realistically, it’s pretty likely this ends up being a disaster regardless.

Intelligent son of a renowned neurosurgeon has a history of concussion issues among other injuries, plays behind Jets’ mediocre at best offensive line. Maybe that would have worked out the Jets had landed Norwell, or if pops was a dermatologist or something.

Extraordinarily talented but raw quarterback with accuracy issues and issues against pressure gets drafted by the Jets, a franchise that specializes in spending premium selections on players that play the positions their head coaches supposedly excel at coaching rather than attempting to develop players at those positions, in the hope they can develop him. Without a head coach who specializes in quarterback development.

Southern California quarterback with turnover issues gets drafted by the Jets. I don’t think I need to even expand here.

A 6’ even quarterback prospect with on field (suspensions) and off field (arrests) character concerns who played his entire college career in a defense optional (maybe even discouraged) conference that hasn’t produced a quality quarterback since Andy Dalton (lol) moves to New York to be the Jets’ franchise QB.

 

I’m being a little tongue in cheek here, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder here in a big way. It’d be awesome to finally have a franchise quarterback, but this is a struggling organization’s Hail Mary to try and keep their jobs. I think it’s absolutely a risk worth taking and there’s a chance it works out and Macc is the next Bill Polian (GM who made an entire career out of one good move), but moving up to 3 in a four QB draft is like something I’d do because I don’t actually know wtf I’m doing and it’s easier to just take what’s left than make a decision with some level of conviction.

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artemusclyde

artemusclyde

Posted
Posted

Clicked Mayfield, but Rosen is concerning as well. That injury history of his combined with him being a statue in the pocket are going to lead to him talking a lot of hits. Better hope your o-line is good, cause with his durability there's a good chance this guy ends up like Bradford and always hurt.  

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MDL_JET

MDL_JET

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Posted

https://art19.com/shows/the-ringer-nfl-show/episodes/e975adcf-cd14-4873-b960-b09d91bec91b

idk where to put this but fun/interesting listen with Michael Lombardi. Starting at 16:30. Saying Mayfield shouldn’t be a consideration for top 5. 

And the jets trading up shouldn’t mean Browns take a QB at one. Why wouldn’t they take a blue chip pass rusher with Chubb to pair with Garrett then one of the top 3 guys at 4? ???

 

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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14 minutes ago, derp said:

Realistically, it’s pretty likely this ends up being a disaster regardless.

Intelligent son of a renowned neurosurgeon has a history of concussion issues among other injuries, plays behind Jets’ mediocre at best offensive line. Maybe that would have worked out the Jets had landed Norwell, or if pops was a dermatologist or something.

Extraordinarily talented but raw quarterback with accuracy issues and issues against pressure gets drafted by the Jets, a franchise that specializes in spending premium selections on players that play the positions their head coaches supposedly excel at coaching rather than attempting to develop players at those positions, in the hope they can develop him. Without a head coach who specializes in quarterback development.

Southern California quarterback with turnover issues gets drafted by the Jets. I don’t think I need to even expand here.

A 6’ even quarterback prospect with on field (suspensions) and off field (arrests) character concerns who played his entire college career in a defense optional (maybe even discouraged) conference that hasn’t produced a quality quarterback since Andy Dalton (lol) moves to New York to be the Jets’ franchise QB.

 

I’m being a little tongue in cheek here, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder here in a big way. It’d be awesome to finally have a franchise quarterback, but this is a struggling organization’s Hail Mary to try and keep their jobs. I think it’s absolutely a risk worth taking and there’s a chance it works out and Macc is the next Bill Polian (GM who made an entire career out of one good move), but moving up to 3 in a four QB draft is like something I’d do because I don’t actually know wtf I’m doing and it’s easier to just take what’s left than make a decision with some level of conviction.

This is an amazing breakdown because it’s all true. Rosen is the ideal guy...but his numbers vs pressure, on the road, on third down are all nightmare-inducing. Mayfield has all the numbers, but is an NYPD mugshot waiting to happen. Allen? Forget about it. Feels like an orphan you’d sneak onto a frigate so he’d at least have a chance of surviving in some distant country. 

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derp

derp

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Posted
6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is an amazing breakdown because it’s all true. Rosen is the ideal guy...but his numbers vs pressure, on the road, on third down are all nightmare-inducing. Mayfield has all the numbers, but is an NYPD mugshot waiting to happen. Allen? Forget about it. Feels like an orphan you’d sneak onto a frigate so he’d at least have a chance of surviving in some distant country. 

They all have pluses too, I generally really like this class. Even Allen although I realize I shouldn't. Mayfield seems the safest on paper but I feel like there's something I'm missing with him. 

Rosen's my favorite at this juncture. Not perfect but I like him and Bates together. Feel like they'd push each other. 

This franchise is too much sometimes though. You could play two truths and a lie and totally get someone who doesn't follow the team with the whole Rosen/Woody thing.

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ChuckkieB

ChuckkieB

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Posted

I'm going to be ecstatic no matter which of the 4 the Jets draft, but my least favorite is Allen because I think he needs a little more work and polish than the others. I think the other 3 can all start from day 1 if given the chance (which they probably won't with the Jets).

For  me it's Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen.

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Long Island Leprechaun

Long Island Leprechaun

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53 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I wasn’t comparing the two..you are going on about nothing right now lol..all I said was IN GENERAL just because you succeeded doesn’t mean you can see potential in others that can succeed.

That is all I said. You are making this out to be more than what it is.

Don't slow me down, I'm just getting warmed up! :)

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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8 minutes ago, derp said:

They all have pluses too, I generally really like this class. Even Allen although I realize I shouldn't. Mayfield seems the safest on paper but I feel like there's something I'm missing with him. 

Rosen's my favorite at this juncture. Not perfect but I like him and Bates together. Feel like they'd push each other. 

This franchise is too much sometimes though. You could play two truths and a lie and totally get someone who doesn't follow the team with the whole Rosen/Woody thing.

Honestly, here’s how im evaluating it: which of these QBs would [insert next great HC candidate] want to work with? Which of these guys would get, say, Jim Harbaugh to take your phone call? I’d think it’d be Darnold, then Rosen, then ehhhhhh.

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Long Island Leprechaun

Long Island Leprechaun

Posted
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24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is an amazing breakdown because it’s all true. Rosen is the ideal guy...but his numbers vs pressure, on the road, on third down are all nightmare-inducing. Mayfield has all the numbers, but is an NYPD mugshot waiting to happen. Allen? Forget about it. Feels like an orphan you’d sneak onto a frigate so he’d at least have a chance of surviving in some distant country. 

Okay, that was positively Dickensian. Bravo.

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FidelioJet

FidelioJet

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is an amazing breakdown because it’s all true. Rosen is the ideal guy...but his numbers vs pressure, on the road, on third down are all nightmare-inducing. Mayfield has all the numbers, but is an NYPD mugshot waiting to happen. Allen? Forget about it. Feels like an orphan you’d sneak onto a frigate so he’d at least have a chance of surviving in some distant country. 

I haven't seen these numbers - that scares the hell out of me ----- That's NFL football - 3rd down is pretty much all that matters.

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FidelioJet

FidelioJet

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2 minutes ago, Larz said:

Still want to see feedback and rumors from all the pro days and workouts 

As it stands right now the only prospect I'm totally comfortable with is Darnold 

Yeah me too... - he looked great in his pro-day today...He's now a lock to go to Cleveland though.

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derp

derp

Posted
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22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Honestly, here’s how im evaluating it: which of these QBs would [insert next great HC candidate] want to work with? Which of these guys would get, say, Jim Harbaugh to take your phone call? I’d think it’d be Darnold, then Rosen, then ehhhhhh.

I think NFL coaches are egomaniacs. Allen, even if you sat him for a year, would get you attention from offensive coaches IMO. “I can teach him how to do XYZ but you can’t teach that kind of arm strength.”

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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12 hours ago, derp said:

I think NFL coaches are egomaniacs. Allen, even if you sat him for a year, would get you attention from offensive coaches IMO. “I can teach him how to do XYZ but you can’t teach that kind of arm strength.”

Yeah, but if, as expected, Bowles tries to start McCown until the inevitable injury, then Bridgewater gets a few games, then Bowles begrudgingly throws Allen in at the end of a lost season and he’s inevitably awful, that’d be dumpster-firey. Now you’re not selling a rebuild as much as a rehab situation.

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Sonny Werblin

Sonny Werblin

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, derp said:

Realistically, it’s pretty likely this ends up being a disaster regardless.

Intelligent son of a renowned neurosurgeon has a history of concussion issues among other injuries, plays behind Jets’ mediocre at best offensive line. Maybe that would have worked out the Jets had landed Norwell, or if pops was a dermatologist or something.

Extraordinarily talented but raw quarterback with accuracy issues and issues against pressure gets drafted by the Jets, a franchise that specializes in spending premium selections on players that play the positions their head coaches supposedly excel at coaching rather than attempting to develop players at those positions, in the hope they can develop him. Without a head coach who specializes in quarterback development.

Southern California quarterback with turnover issues gets drafted by the Jets. I don’t think I need to even expand here.

A 6’ even quarterback prospect with on field (suspensions) and off field (arrests) character concerns who played his entire college career in a defense optional (maybe even discouraged) conference that hasn’t produced a quality quarterback since Andy Dalton (lol) moves to New York to be the Jets’ franchise QB.

 

I’m being a little tongue in cheek here, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder here in a big way. It’d be awesome to finally have a franchise quarterback, but this is a struggling organization’s Hail Mary to try and keep their jobs. I think it’s absolutely a risk worth taking and there’s a chance it works out and Macc is the next Bill Polian (GM who made an entire career out of one good move), but moving up to 3 in a four QB draft is like something I’d do because I don’t actually know wtf I’m doing and it’s easier to just take what’s left than make a decision with some level of conviction.

I've read that a number of times and accepted it as true. Except it's not. His father is not a neurosurgeon. He is an orthopedic surgeon. And while I have no reason to believe he is anything other than a good doctor who is respected by his peers, he is not "renowned". In fact he is more famous for who is kid is than he is as a doctor. And, here's another tidbit about Josh Rosen's parents, his dad was a nationally ranked ice skater who almost qualified for the Winter Olympics in the 1970s, and his mom is a former journalist who was captain of the Princeton lacrosse team. I'm not sure if any of that should matter, but I wanted to clean up the fake news about his dad being a world renowned neurosurgeon.

So, in a nutshell, no one is threatening to unseat Dick Hammer as the most famous relative of the incoming QB class.

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NYs Stepchild

NYs Stepchild

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Posted
18 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Nostradamus actually said this 500 years ago in reference to the Jets. Einstein stole the Quote

Bp39zN1IEAAuDlW.jpg

 

The Jets moved up to Draft Barkley and still intend to give Hackenburg a shot sometime in the next 10 years

Einstein actually never said this at all. He was pretty precise and this really is a false statement.

Expecting different results doesn't make you insane but ignorant. If you believed you had obtained different results that would make you insane.  

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Rexorcism

Rexorcism

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Posted
This should be asked. 
I think most likely ruined Mayfield with his Heisman trophy on his left hand.

I agree with Tom Shane, Mayfield is what we need, a balls to the wall, ruthless, wont back down crazy man, which I think will leave him unfazed by the typical nonsense that has ruined other promising young Jet QBs
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Warfish

Warfish

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Posted

All along I've said I didn't really have faith in Darnold, Rosen or Allen, and even Mayfield I had some serious doubts about (but still liked him).

I liked being at #6, because I believed (and still do) that Mayfield would have been available at #6.  If we stood pat and got the best QB in college, and it didn't work out, I could stomach that as a reasonable attempt even in failure.

Now, at #3?  Honestly, I simply have to accept whichever guy we take and see what happens.  They're all risky, all of them.  No Luck's in the draft.  No Mannings.  

So with that in mind, and knowing the futility of over-investing in being against a guy, I suppose I can accept ANY of the big 4 QB's this draft class.  

Not the end result I wanted (my perfect offseason would have resulted in Cousins, Luke Falk and Hackenberg, or staying at #6 and having Mayfield, A Veteran, Hack and all those 2nd round picks still) but it is what it is, so we just have to hope luck shines on us for a change.

Because there is no evidence to support faith in the SKILL of our GM to select the right guy of this class and we don;t control our own destiny either.

So luck (and alot of it) is what we'll need, no matter who we pick.

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