Oline Schematically Awful

[BCJet]

I made this point in the thread about replacing individual players but the scheme we have been running is much more to blame then individual player issues like Beachem getting smoked by Garrett all game. 

Across the league teams like the cardinals are able to run the ball and protect their QB much better then the Jets have done, with far less talent. The Pats have a backup center, lost their 2018 LT to free agency, their new LT to injury and won’t miss a beat in protecting Brady. 

For whatever reason we haven’t been protecting players like Beachem when they have a bad matchup by using a TE to max protect. We are also struggling to pick up blitzes and make line calls but the below article also shows (albeit with similar examples) of us also having awful play designs right from the beginning.  This is where Gase needs to vastly improve (oh and Winters is awful and we finally have a capable backup to replace him) 

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2019/9/18/20873320/jets-blocking-schemes-are-incomprehensible-right-now

[JoJoTownsell1]

The first play of the game when Siemian got killed it looked like the Oline was blocking for a completely different play. We had two lineman blocking air. 

So yeah, I am not impressed with our oline coach. 

[Beerfish]

They twice had a TE on one side of the formation go across the formation at the snap of the ball and try and block a guy on the other side with predictably awful results.

[Lupz27]

13 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I made this point in the thread about replacing individual players but the scheme we have been running is much more to blame then individual player issues like Beachem getting smoked by Garrett all game. 

Across the league teams like the cardinals are able to run the ball and protect their QB much better then the Jets have done, with far less talent. The Pats have a backup center, lost their 2018 LT to free agency, their new LT to injury and won’t miss a beat in protecting Brady. 

For whatever reason we haven’t been protecting players like Beachem when they have a bad matchup by using a TE to max protect. We are also struggling to pick up blitzes and make line calls but the below article also shows (albeit with similar examples) of us also having awful play designs right from the beginning.  This is where Gase needs to vastly improve (oh and Winters is awful and we finally have a capable backup to replace him) 

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2019/9/18/20873320/jets-blocking-schemes-are-incomprehensible-right-now

I wonder if Gase got so spoiled with Peyton being a genius at adjusting OL responsibilities from the Defensive look, and thinks this is what normal QB’s can do so having a set blocking scheme could be lacking if my way out there reach of an idea has any legs ??.

[The Crusher]

Yeah looks like scrambled eggs out there. I find it hard to believe letting Miles Garret be a free runner is a part of the blocking scheme. Look like a sandlot squad out there. 

[Untouchable]

Yep

Rick Dennison at least had pretty much this same group playing competently last year.

Now we have Osemele, who should be an improvement over Carpenter/Long and they look like dogsh*t.

This Pollard guy sucks

[sec101row23]

The lack of help given on Garrett was alarming, but even when they tried to go max protect the line gave way.  Maybe it’s bad scheme AND bad players?  

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Yep

Rick Dennison at least had pretty much this same group playing competently last year.

Now we have Osemele, who should be an improvement over Carpenter/Long and they look like dogsh*t.

This Pollard guy sucks

I think part of the problem is that you had a 3rd team QB out there not able to make the line calls and a veteran center who hasn’t played very much up to this point in the season not being able to make the calls either.  Pretty sure Gase had to “dumb down” much of what he wanted to do.  That said, guys were getting beat pretty easily, so that’s not encouraging.  

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I think part of the problem is that you had a 3rd team QB out there not able to make the line calls and a veteran center who hasn’t played very much up to this point in the season not being able to make the calls either.  Pretty sure Gase had to “dumb down” much of what he wanted to do.  That said, guys were getting beat pretty easily, so that’s not encouraging.  

This was an issue week 1 too though. I was hopeful that it would have been a major priority to fix for week two but they came out and immediately started having a bunch of free rushers again.

It's going to be hard to defend Gase if this continues to be an issue. Fans can easily see it happening - an NFL head coach needs to be able to fix it.

[kdels62]

13 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I think part of the problem is that you had a 3rd team QB out there not able to make the line calls and a veteran center who hasn’t played very much up to this point in the season not being able to make the calls either.  Pretty sure Gase had to “dumb down” much of what he wanted to do.  That said, guys were getting beat pretty easily, so that’s not encouraging.  

The OL played better with Falk in. 

On that first play the problem is in execution because of 2 things. 1) bad play fake by Siemian 2) Winters getting blown up. It’s possible that Winters getting blown up causes the bad play fake but both Bell and Robby are open. If Winters doesn’t get blown up then Siemian has space to his right to set his feet and make his throw. If Siemian sells the fake then Garrett plays himself out of the play which he almost does until Siemian drifts into his view.

[Losmeister]

34 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Peyton being a genius at adjusting OL responsibilities

btw, not the fisrt time i have heard this...    is this fact? its not like i am ryna call out Lup, i dunno if he was the person who mentioned this previously, i mean, i know the qb calls out certain things, the mike, et cet....     but is it common that adjustment to OL calls is on the qb? my impression was the C often di that...   just asking.

cos, i feel kyer murray, josh rosen, darnold are executin th e play and looking for wrs not assigning the OL scheme...

[Jetsfan80]

Until this gets fixed this is pretty much the # 1 concern right now.  We can't be bringing back sickly Sam until the scheme gets fixed and the OL "gels" a bit.  

[ItsTheSameOldJets]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Until this gets fixed this is pretty much the # 1 concern right now.  We can't be bringing back sickly Sam until the scheme gets fixed and the OL "gels" a bit.  

That or he is stuck playing shotgun formations. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, ItsTheSameOldJets said:

That or he is stuck playing shotgun formations. 

Are we sure our Centers can snap the ball properly?

[JustInFudge]

As I mentioned in another thread, it doesnt add up.  All these dudes have been part of good to great offensive teams.  Except Shell, who's been the best of the bunch.  Now they're here and they suddenly cant play Football?  Just like Siemian - the guy has thrown 4 TD's in game twice in his career, suddenly he is totally incapable of playing NFL Football?

Gase is a ******* disaster.  The problem is this was so ******* duh it's not even funny. 

[nico002]

There are too many smart coaches and experienced players on this team on both sides for this to be an issue. Someone would say something and adjust.  The defense would be annilihaiting the O in practice. I honestly think Kalil is THAT bad. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Gase is a ******* disaster.  The problem is this was so ******* duh it's not even funny. 

Yet another wonderful parting gift from Mike Maccagnan.  

[Lupz27]

13 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

cos, i feel kyer murray, josh rosen, darnold are executin th e play and looking for wrs not assigning the OL scheme...

This is exactly my point, Peyton made the changes, he would get info from another lineman once in awhile, but the call was ultimately his, same can be said for most RB’s they need to be told who to pick up, or moved only a select few can figure it out themselves, luckily the Jets have one of the select few.

[CrazyCarl40]

It’s almost like the guy who sucked at coaching in Miami didn’t get better in the few weeks he was unemployed.

[Barry McCockinner]

8 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

btw, not the fisrt time i have heard this...    is this fact? its not like i am ryna call out Lup, i dunno if he was the person who mentioned this previously, i mean, i know the qb calls out certain things, the mike, et cet....     but is it common that adjustment to OL calls is on the qb? my impression was the C often di that...   just asking.

cos, i feel kyer murray, josh rosen, darnold are executin th e play and looking for wrs not assigning the OL scheme...

Minimally the QB is responsible for identifying the mike backer. If they see multiple potential blitzers they can audible TE's or RB's back into the box as extra blockers.

With younger QBs and backup QBs it would be ideal if the play calling defaulted to have these extra blockers who have the option to release when the extra rusher isn't coming rather than rely on the QB to make the extra presnap adjustment. 

Peyton Manning is far and away the exception, obviously.

[nico002]

Our offensive line coach has 15+ years as an OL coach in the NFL. Including three years in leading the unit in Dallas (‘15-‘17) when they had the #1 OL in the NFL. I’m sorry but I can’t believe that the issue is scheme or coaching. Too many smart guys here for that to be the issue. The players suck.

[Green DNA]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

It’s almost like the guy who sucked at coaching in Miami didn’t get better in the few weeks he was unemployed.

It's like recurring nightmare.  Johnson couldn't contain his boner for Gase just like Hess couldn't hire Kotite fast enough after the Eagles dumped him after coming off a 7-9 record in 1994.  The more things change.....

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, nico002 said:

Our offensive line coach has 15+ years as an OL coach in the NFL. Including three years in leading the unit in Dallas (‘15-‘17) when they had the #1 OL in the NFL. I’m sorry but I can’t believe that the issue is scheme or coaching. Too many smart guys here for that to be the issue. The players suck.

What about the scheme of this play makes sense to you?

[Losmeister]

29 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

This is exactly my point, Peyton made the changes, he would get info from another lineman once in awhile, but the call was ultimately his, same can be said for most RB’s they need to be told who to pick up, or moved only a select few can figure it out themselves, luckily the Jets have one of the select few.

hmm...    i find it harda swallow that Sam is doing this already, or tryna...    sounds like an awful lot to chew...

again, not pickin a fight ....  just tryna wrap my head around what is common practice...

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

What about the scheme of this play makes sense to you?

The one where Shell, Winters and Kalil all block the same guy while everyone else runs wild was great play design. 

[section314]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

The one where Shell, Winters and Kalil all block the same guy while everyone else runs wild was great play design. 

Unless it's Reggie White or Aaron Donald, you've got a problem.?

[Lupz27]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

hmm...    i find it harda swallow that Sam is doing this already, or tryna...    sounds like an awful lot to chew...

again, not pickin a fight ....  just tryna wrap my head around what is common practice...

I’m saying Sam isn’t doing this, thus Gase’s scheme is bad without the best possibly ever at playing chess with defense’s as his QB as a possibility again it’s just a way out there guess.

[PCP63]

Only looked at two plays so far. First play, Garrett was so narrow, Griffen didn't see him. But that's on him. Second play, looked the HB was supposed to check and release, but forgot the checking part. My guess is that he expected Sam to see him come free. 

 

Edit: Yup ,next two plays shows that it was designed to throw right around Garrett. 

Dumb plays, but the first one wasn't the scheme, it was a missed block (at least as far as we can tell). 

[Losmeister]

8 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I’m saying Sam isn’t doing this, thus Gase’s scheme is bad without the best possibly ever at playing chess with defense’s as his QB as a possibility again it’s just a way out there guess.

ok...   i think i get you now...    fanx

[Losmeister]

also...  KO might be a physical specimen with a decent resume...  but he's been abysmal...totakly whiffs and then runs back to pile on top o th eguy after the sack is already secured...

man...     thats Winters 2.0

[jgb]

“Turnstile” isn’t a scheme?

[Bleedin Green]

I agree with others that is an issue of both talent and coaching.  The players are certainly not doing so well themselves, but the ridiculous volume of free rushers coming flying in goes just beyond talent.  There were numerous plays where the entire line was rolling away from a DE, while the rest of the play itself was doing no such thing.  Now it's difficult for us to say whether that was atrocious play-calling or totally screwed up line calls coming from Kalil, but when it's every single player doing the same wrong thing, it tells you that it was quite intentional, which is really the most frightening part.

[bitonti]

there's no scheme that helps vs Myles Garrett let's start there

he's an absolute beast who should break Strahan's fake sack record

 

as for the Line they are not 5 blocks of granite or whatever but teams blitz against young/sh*tty QBs who can't handle pressure and the Jets have been trotting out both (including week 1)

 

yes the line needs to be better they are a low tier group the way Winters and Kalil are playing but it's not the reason the team is scoring 16 and then 3 points

the reason the team is struggling is because Sam Darnold let this team down.  this thing was only going to work if the FQB took the next step. He's unavailable again and when we get to year 3 how many games will he have started

QBIE 

SOJ

[#27TheDominator]

50 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Our offensive line coach has 15+ years as an OL coach in the NFL. Including three years in leading the unit in Dallas (‘15-‘17) when they had the #1 OL in the NFL. I’m sorry but I can’t believe that the issue is scheme or coaching. Too many smart guys here for that to be the issue. The players suck.

The Cowboys fired him.  They had pass protection issues.  Sound familiar?  He was with the Bengals last year.   Guys like Kalil and Beachum may be long in the tooth, but this is more than them getting bull rushed and beat around the edge.  They are allowing free runners and it isn't blitzing CBs.  

[Losmeister]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

The Cowboys fired him.  They had pass protection issues.  Sound familiar?  He was with the Bengals last year.   Guys like Kalil and Beachum may be long in the tooth, but this is more than them getting bull rushed and beat around the edge.  They are allowing free runners and it isn't blitzing CBs.  

when the guy goes right around KO, its cos he was coached to let the guy in front of him run past him?