Jet Get Van Roten

[BornJetsFan1983]

Awesome  news

[jamesr]

11 hours ago, PS17 said:

How is this even possible outside of New England?

Fixed.  

[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, Jethead said:

You are a broken record. 10M of Woody's $ is chump change 

 You have no idea what JDs plan is.

Seems to me he's off to a very good start. 

When guys stop saying JD is finding great value over and over again, when it’s not actually true, I’ll stop pointing out that we paid $10mm a year to a back up Tackle. 
 

Woody’s $? I assume you know about the salary cap. So I’m unsure if your point.  If you don’t know about it, it’s a pretty big deal. Just let me know.  I’ll happily give you a tutorial. 
 

lastly, I also think he’s doing a mostly solid, if not spectacular, job. I’m def happy with the direction he’s taking us.  I’m just not full of all hype. As some are trying  make JD out to be our savior already.  

We went through this same sh— with Mac. Go back read the threads. After his first couple of weeks virtually everyone was clamoring about how we finally had the right guy etc.   

 

 

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

That’s fantastic.  

[Jetster]

So we're not starting 3 rookies? Of course most of us knew this all along but the fear was JD not being able to sign all of the guys he targeted. 

I don't think Conklin was ever on his radar. Fant was the only expensive pc, a little overpriced but you pay for versatility & experience in this league. Without even drafting a 1st round Olineman, Pollack already has a group he could cull 5 starters from & have veteran experience at every position. 

Would it be a great Oline? No, but at least competent unlike our 1st 8 games last year. Draft is WIDE OPEN now. Trade back a few spots now would be SWEET.

[JustInFudge]

JD is man of his word.  OL was clearly a priority.

[SR24]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I don't know about this.  Right now I'm thinking that we don't want to be trading picks for anyone....even Trent Williams.  Why not just sign Jason Peters to a 1-2 year deal?  That would give the Jets supreme flexibility in the Draft.  If a Tier 1 zone-blocking OT isn't there at a #11 (like Wills or Wirfs) then go WR and come back in Round 2 with Josh Jones, Lucas Niang or Matthew Peart at OT maybe.

Good points man I think Peterson is a good consolation prize but I Also think Williams still has some gas in the tank and he’s a monster when he’s on the field. If I can land a high level LT for a 3rd and a 5th and less than 18mil/yr I’d be all over it. I’ll be honest though I don’t value later draft picks as much as most people though but anyways  We’d have the cap to resign Robby as well so our OL would be rebuilt with significant upgrades at LT and C, we’d have Robby,Lamb/Jeudy,Crowder,Herndon and Bell as weapons for Sam. Throw #48 at an edge  and our remaining 3rd at a corner and we’ve got a team that can at least compete 

[BCJet]

58 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

When guys stop saying JD is finding great value over and over again, when it’s not actually true, I’ll stop pointing out that we paid $10mm a year to a back up Tackle. 
 

Woody’s $? I assume you know about the salary cap. So I’m unsure if your point.  If you don’t know about it, it’s a pretty big deal. Just let me know.  I’ll happily give you a tutorial. 
 

lastly, I also think he’s doing a mostly solid, if not spectacular, job. I’m def happy with the direction he’s taking us.  I’m just not full of all hype. As some are trying  make JD out to be our savior already.  

We went through this same sh— with Mac. Go back read the threads. After his first couple of weeks virtually everyone was clamoring about how we finally had the right guy etc.   

 

 

 

Backup tackle? Fant is our opening day starter at LT and is on a reasonable contract.  Would you rather have Halapoulivaati Vaitai for 5 years and $50 million?

Guys get paid as free agents, especially with a signing bonus and year one cash.  Where a GM finds "value" is not in the first year, its over the life of the contract.  If Fant winds up excelling (and that does not mean he is an all-pro, he doesnt have that ceiling) and becomes an above-average LT, then we have him on a good contract for 3 years.  If he doesnt improve and we have a younger player ready to take over LT, then we move on with little to no cap hit.  The value is in the risk/reward that is in the teams favor.

McGovern's contract doesnt have an out after 1 year because McGovern is who he is already, JD isnt really taking on risk there.  McGovern will probably play exactly like a $9 million a year center - which is what we are paying him.  I doubt that JD sees McGovern as a guy who will suddenly value into the top 5 centers in the league and he also doesnt strike me as a Trumain Johnson who is gonna suddenly mail it in. So we got a starting center for exactly where he is valued.  

Not sure what else you want JD to do.

[GreenFish]

9 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

 

My new favorite player. Unless he misses an assignment. In which case... cut his ass. 
He’s fulfilling a dream many fans have. 

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

When guys stop saying JD is finding great value over and over again, when it’s not actually true, I’ll stop pointing out that we paid $10mm a year to a back up Tackle. 
 

Woody’s $? I assume you know about the salary cap. So I’m unsure if your point.  If you don’t know about it, it’s a pretty big deal. Just let me know.  I’ll happily give you a tutorial. 
 

lastly, I also think he’s doing a mostly solid, if not spectacular, job. I’m def happy with the direction he’s taking us.  I’m just not full of all hype. As some are trying  make JD out to be our savior already.  

We went through this same sh— with Mac. Go back read the threads. After his first couple of weeks virtually everyone was clamoring about how we finally had the right guy etc.   

 

 

 

There is NO DOUBT reading your posts, you truly are the most pessimistic Jet fan I've ever encountered. Downright Debbie Downer posts over & over even though Douglas is getting exactly what needed to be done, done, and, free agency isn't over & we have never even seen one draft by the guy yet. 

Its OK to at least have a little faith. This is the most professional GM with actual experience whose organization didn't want him to leave. I think they held a party in Houston when Macc left. 

[FidelioJet]

21 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Backup tackle? Fant is our opening day starter at LT and is on a reasonable contract.  Would you rather have Halapoulivaati Vaitai for 5 years and $50 million?

Guys get paid as free agents, especially with a signing bonus and year one cash.  Where a GM finds "value" is not in the first year, its over the life of the contract.  If Fant winds up excelling (and that does not mean he is an all-pro, he doesnt have that ceiling) and becomes an above-average LT, then we have him on a good contract for 3 years.  If he doesnt improve and we have a younger player ready to take over LT, then we move on with little to no cap hit.  The value is in the risk/reward that is in the teams favor.

McGovern's contract doesnt have an out after 1 year because McGovern is who he is already, JD isnt really taking on risk there.  McGovern will probably play exactly like a $9 million a year center - which is what we are paying him.  I doubt that JD sees McGovern as a guy who will suddenly value into the top 5 centers in the league and he also doesnt strike me as a Trumain Johnson who is gonna suddenly mail it in. So we got a starting center for exactly where he is valued.  

Not sure what else you want JD to do.

I agree, he will be and was signed to be our opening day starter - but that’s the problem,  he’s a back up level talent.  Basically = or downgrade from Beachum or Shell - who we could have kept for much less.

I would rather have signed Conklin for $13mm a year instead of Fant for $10mm or kept Shell for $6mm.  Used that other $3mm to get Robby back.  

I like the McGovern deal - quality player for the right price.

I haven’t seen any numbers on the Von Roten deal yet, but seems to be a solid guy, hard working, middle of the road talent - that is a massive upgrade over what we had.  Assuming the numbers are fair I really like the signing.  

Right now we’ve upgraded center and one of the guard spots and a hold the fort kinda guy in Lewis at the other guard.  That’s great progress.  Very happy about the interior of the line right now.  Will be MUCH better and sure to give Sam more time!

Tackle, at this point, is worse off than it was - as we only have one starter penciled in - and he’s an expensive flat to downgrade.

All I’m  trying to say, to the people that think it’s okay to go WR right now, is we still have to go Tackle at 11 as we’re still incredibly weak at the position.  

[FidelioJet]

15 minutes ago, Jetster said:

There is NO DOUBT reading your posts, you truly are the most pessimistic Jet fan I've ever encountered. Downright Debbie Downer posts over & over even though Douglas is getting exactly what needed to be done, done, and, free agency isn't over & we have never even seen one draft by the guy yet. 

Its OK to at least have a little faith. This is the most professional GM with actual experience whose organization didn't want him to leave. I think they held a party in Houston when Macc left. 

You want to read half of the post and make statements like that.

I’ve said, many, many times that I like the McGovern signing, I think I like the Von Roten signing (haven’t seen the #’s yet) but I like the player a lot.

I like the direction JD is going and is clearly addressing our most glaring need, one that Mac took as an afterthought.   But when you post things like - “the most professional GM” I just want to call BS on that - we really don’t know enough about him - maybe he will be, maybe he won’t.

While I acknowledge the McGovern/Van Roten signings were solid, why is it not okay to point out that I think the Fant signing was a panic move — where he overpaid for below average, back-up level player.  Why is that so hard for so many of you to accept?  

I’m not going to crown JD the savior quite yet.  I’ve seen a mixed bag from him throughout his tenure so far (not just this week) some good and some bad. 

[Jetster]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You want to read half of the post and make statements like that.

I’ve said, many, many times that I like the McGovern signing, I think I like the Von Roten signing (haven’t seen the #’s yet) but I like the player a lot.

I like the direction JD is going and is clearly addressing our most glaring need, one that Mac took as an afterthought.   But when you post things like - “the most professional GM” I just want to call BS on that - we really don’t know enough about him - maybe he will be, maybe he won’t.

While I acknowledge the McGovern/Van Roten signings were solid, why is it not okay to point out that I think the Fant signing was a panic move — where he overpaid for below average, back-up level player.  Why is that so hard for so many of you to accept?  

I’m not going to crown JD the savior quite yet.  I’ve seen a mixed bag from him throughout his tenure so far (not just this week) some good and some bad. 

 

[Jetster]

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You want to read half of the post and make statements like that.

I’ve said, many, many times that I like the McGovern signing, I think I like the Von Roten signing (haven’t seen the #’s yet) but I like the player a lot.

I like the direction JD is going and is clearly addressing our most glaring need, one that Mac took as an afterthought.   But when you post things like - “the most professional GM” I just want to call BS on that - we really don’t know enough about him - maybe he will be, maybe he won’t.

While I acknowledge the McGovern/Van Roten signings were solid, why is it not okay to point out that I think the Fant signing was a panic move — where he overpaid for below average, back-up level player.  Why is that so hard for so many of you to accept?  

I’m not going to crown JD the savior quite yet.  I’ve seen a mixed bag from him throughout his tenure so far (not just this week) some good and some bad. 

Monty Hall: FidelioJet, do you want to keep your winnings or trade it for what's behind door #2?

FidelioJet: Door #2 Monty!

Monty: OK Fi let's see what's behind door #2

WONK....WONK...WAAAAAH! 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Monty Hall: FidelioJet, do you want to keep your winnings or trade it for what's behind door #2?

FidelioJet: Door #2 Monty!

Monty: OK Fi let's see what's behind door #2

WONK....WONK...WAAAAAH! 

Because door #1 has been so successful in past for the NYJ’s - I shouldn’t even consider it possible our GM could make a mistake. 

I find some caution to be more prudent than wild-eyed optimism.  Someone needs to be the voice of reason around here.

[TMAC]

Greg Van Roten grew up on Long Island (Rockville Centre) and is a graduate of Chaminade High School.  He is also a life long Jet fan with lots of friends and family in the area rooting for him and the Jets.

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, TMAC said:

Greg Van Roten grew up on Long Island (Rockville Centre) and is a graduate of Chaminade High School.  He is also a life long Jet fan with lots of friends and family in the area rooting for him and the Jets.

Just awesome.   I definitely love this guy already. 

[Wonderboy]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

When guys stop saying JD is finding great value over and over again, when it’s not actually true, I’ll stop pointing out that we paid $10mm a year to a back up Tackle. 
 

Woody’s $? I assume you know about the salary cap. So I’m unsure if your point.  If you don’t know about it, it’s a pretty big deal. Just let me know.  I’ll happily give you a tutorial. 
 

lastly, I also think he’s doing a mostly solid, if not spectacular, job. I’m def happy with the direction he’s taking us.  I’m just not full of all hype. As some are trying  make JD out to be our savior already.  

We went through this same sh— with Mac. Go back read the threads. After his first couple of weeks virtually everyone was clamoring about how we finally had the right guy etc.   

 

 

 

JD has targeted the team’s weakness. Macc targeted Starbucks and Dunkin’ Donuts and fooled you all with his eloquent press conferences. Not tooting my own horn, but I knew immediately he was a moron for not getting rid of Geno as soon as he was hired. And it was all down hill after his first year as GM. If not for Fitz’s crazy year, Macc would have been gone much sooner. JD’s first draft will be quite telling. Can’t wait!

[slats]

9 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Maybe if we're lucky I'll hear something about Clowney and Robby and that Yannick guy getting upset about negotiations with JD also. Then we'll be in even better shape'

Seriously though, nice job by JD and Van Roten's agent working things out. I couldn't be happier things ended up like this. There's a reason these guys have their agents do the negotiating. I'm sure Van Roten is ecstatic he's back home playing for his favorite team.

I hope so, too. 

I get no information whatsoever from my Long Island Catholic high school. 

[Wonderboy]

Can one of you stat guys post Fant’s numbers for Seattle. You know sacks allowed, pressures, PFF run/pass block etc. what are his strengths/weaknesses. Where he’d be more effective LT or RT. I think he started 6 games last year. That’s a good number to gauge his effectiveness. 10 M is not backup money. He’s starting.  JD obviously sees something most of us are not. 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree, he will be and was signed to be our opening day starter - but that’s the problem,  he’s a back up level talent.  Basically = or downgrade from Beachum or Shell - who we could have kept for much less.

I would rather have signed Conklin for $13mm a year instead of Fant for $10mm or kept Shell for $6mm.  Used that other $3mm to get Robby back.  

I like the McGovern deal - quality player for the right price.

I haven’t seen any numbers on the Von Roten deal yet, but seems to be a solid guy, hard working, middle of the road talent - that is a massive upgrade over what we had.  Assuming the numbers are fair I really like the signing.  

Right now we’ve upgraded center and one of the guard spots and a hold the fort kinda guy in Lewis at the other guard.  That’s great progress.  Very happy about the interior of the line right now.  Will be MUCH better and sure to give Sam more time!

Tackle, at this point, is worse off than it was - as we only have one starter penciled in - and he’s an expensive flat to downgrade.

All I’m  trying to say, to the people that think it’s okay to go WR right now, is we still have to go Tackle at 11 as we’re still incredibly weak at the position.  

  Fidelity,   @Jetster and @BCJet  Enjoyed your discussion on the OL. One thing we need to keep in mind is the offensive scheme Gase is looking to run. 
From some of the things I’m reading in Gase going with “Outside Zone” blocking scheme. You need different types of OL for this scheme. Maybe Fant is perfect for this? I don’t know but I think we will know more when the draft comes. Thomas may not fit this scheme allowing JD to trade down, grab extra pick, take WR in mid teens and trade back up into 1st for OL.  Below is an article on scheme. Same as 49ers used last season. 
 

On Sunday, if you listen to the Super Bowl LIV television broadcast, you almost certainly will hear the announcers say the key to the San Francisco 49ers’ offense is “outside zone.”

The play concept, while not new, has been instrumental to San Francisco’s success. The 49ers, 4-12 last season, sit a win over the Kansas City Chiefs from their first Super Bowl championship since the 1994 season, in large part because of a rushing attack that ranked second in the league this season at 144.1 yards per game and became an integral part of the team’s identity.

The NFL remains a passing league, but the 49ers used a run-heavy offense to blow past the Minnesota Vikings and Green Bay Packers in the playoffs by taking advantage of the play-calling of Coach Kyle Shanahan and a trio of speedy running backs — Raheem Mostert, Matt Breida and Tevin Coleman. Quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo attempted only eight passes in the 37-20 win over the Packers that gave the 49ers the NFC title.

How does outside zone work? Where did it come from? And what does it mean for Sunday’s matchup? Let’s take a look:

How does outside zone work?

Outside zone is a running play on which offensive linemen focus their blocks on zones, or spaces on the field, as opposed to specific defenders (which is referred to as man-to-man blocking). It calls upon linemen to caravan toward the sideline and push back whichever defenders are in the way. Running backs are asked to look for three options: “bounce” outside, “bang” a cut upfield between the linemen or “bend” on a cutback across the formation.

“You need [running backs] who find the lane, put their foot on the gas pedal and get 0 to 10 fast,” ESPN analyst Matt Bowen said.

The scheme can be boom-or-bust. No run play gets stuffed for no gain or a loss of yardage more often, and no run play yields more plays of 20-plus yards. In pursuit of the type of chunk plays that are necessary to win in the modern NFL (more commonly achieved through the passing game), teams have to keep hammering away in search of pay dirt. This is true even for the 49ers, who ran it better than any other team on their way to the Super Bowl

“Outside zone is a war of attrition,” said Dave McGinnis, a longtime NFL coach. The people who are successful with it are patient.”

What’s the origin of outside zone?

The importance of zone blocking traces to Kyle Shanahan’s father, Mike, who helped innovate the idea in the early 1990s to counter the Pittsburgh Steelers’ zone blitz. Steelers defensive coordinator Dom Capers disrupted the offensive line’s man-to-man blocking assignments with concepts such as blitzing a linebacker and dropping a defensive end into coverage. 

Mike Shanahan, then head coach of the Denver Broncos, and assistant Alex Gibbs realized something: Offensive linemen should block an area rather than a man.

The scheme was simple, yet each play is delicate. If any defender penetrates the blocking wall, the run can be stuffed. This puts extreme pressure on both teams to control the line of scrimmage, and it emphasizes why everyone must be patient — coaches in their play-calling and players in their execution.

“Timing is everything,” said Packers guard Billy Turner, who plays in the samescheme.

Katie Sowers is the first woman to coach in a Super Bowl. Her goal: ‘Make sure I’m not the last.’

Maintaining every block on every play is hard, so the hit rate is low. But even if an offense only totals 20 yards on its first seven or eight rushes, the coach’s philosophy is this: My players will do their jobs more often than your players will. Boom, then there’s a 60- or 70-yarder, and the defender’s saying, ‘He only had one long run!’ ” said Dennis Thurman, a longtime defensive coach. “But how disciplined were you? [Outside zone] only takes one guy breaking down.”

That flexibility proved difficult for opponents to defend. The Broncos won Super Bowl titles in the 1997 and 1998 seasons, and Terrell Davis, the quintessential “one-cut” running back who thrived in Shanahan’s outside zone scheme, landed in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. 
 

One similarity that Shanahan uses in his favor is a personnel grouping — two-running-back sets — that is less common in today’s game. Defenses aren’t used to facing offenses with such a power run-heavy approach — even other outside zone-heavy teams, such as the Los Angeles Rams, typically operate out of one-back, three-wide-receiver lineups — but the 49ers have a fullback in Kyle Juszcyzk and a tight end in George Kittle who are powerful blockers and still versatile enough to factor into the passing game. 

The biggest difference in Shanahan’s version of the outside zone is the way he dresses up plays to confuse the defense. He runs multiple plays out of multiple formations to avoid developing tendencies that opponents can identify in advance. He deploys presnap motion and play-action at rates that rank among the highest in the NFL, creating what defenders refer to as “eye candy” — and forcing the defensive players to think longer and play slower.

“Speed is everything,” McGinnis said. “If you make a slow, correct decision on defense, you’re wrong.”

If this is a line-of-scrimmage game, San Francisco is Super Bowl champion,” Bowen said. “If they can control the offensive front, it’s over.”

Simply slowing San Francisco’s rushing attack won’t be enough to guarantee a Chiefs victory. The threat of outside zone unlocks the rest of the 49ers’ offense. 

[Wonderboy]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

I hope so, too. 

I get no information whatsoever from my Long Island Catholic high school. 

They had some good basketball teams back in the 70’s!!!!

[Greensleeves]

8 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Two good posts.

I think what many fans are failing to see (and I was as well for a little while) is that all those rankings you see online at various websites and from "experts" like Kiper, etc. do not take into account that the Jets are looking for a specific skillset for their Linemen.  The Jets aren't looking for huge, powerful man-blocking linemen who simply plow the guy in front of them.

The Jets want nimble, athletic, quick OLinemen who function like heat-seeking missiles when the ball is snapped and head out into space to square up a linebacker, etc.  To me...this means that guys like Becton might be a lot lower on the Jets list and guys like Wills, Josh Jones, Matthew Peart, etc. could be a lot higher.

We've discussed this a bit in the Draft forum but what we really need is to rank zone-blocking OLinemen....and not just OLinemen.  The Jets ranking of OT's will be different than a lot of other teams, and that's a good thing I think!

 

This is a great post. I think the tackle JD likes may be had in the second round. He may not see a difference at all between the two tackles that fit his system well and the next two that will be available. I've heard good things about Peart and Jones. We can't afford to reach for a tackle in the first instead of getting the best player in the draft at other positions. We can always try and trade back. I just remember that the best Jets offenses had receivers that were picked high. Al Toon (#10 pick) and the Jets were amazing on offense. Keyshawn was amazing while on the Jets (#1). It makes sense to grab an elite receiver and have a high flying offense. Incidentally, those were really good teams. We are basically getting Mosely and possibly Williamson as upgrades to our D this year. Q will be much better IMO as well. Grab a CB later in the draft and let's put up some points dammit!

[slats]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I would rather have signed Conklin for $13mm a year instead of Fant for $10mm or kept Shell for $6mm.  Used that other $3mm to get Robby back.

[..]

Tackle, at this point, is worse off than it was - as we only have one starter penciled in - and he’s an expensive flat to downgrade.

I like Fant's upside for a $9.3M, one year, flyer. If he doesn't work out, it's no great loss. If he does, they have a LT signed below market for the next three years. Seems like the Jets are placing a premium on athleticism on the OL as well and, that while Conklin would've been a great addition for the running game, he doesn't fit that athletic mold. Also, the draft is well stocked at OT. I like that he's targeting interior OL in free agency, presumably with a plan to attack the OT position in the draft. Same with WR, which is why I suspect we're seeing little action there (throughout the league, as well). I think he'll either resign Anderson or bring in a different vet and then take a couple in the draft. Two OTs and two WRs would not be surprising. 

 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

  Fidelity,   @Jetster and @BCJet  Enjoyed your discussion on the OL. One thing we need to keep in mind is the offensive scheme Gase is looking to run. 
From some of the things I’m reading in Gase going with “Outside Zone” blocking scheme. You need different types of OL for this scheme. Maybe Fant is perfect for this? I don’t know but I think we will know more when the draft comes. Thomas may not fit this scheme allowing JD to trade down, grab extra pick, take WR in mid teens and trade back up into 1st for OL.  Below is an article on scheme. Same as 49ers used last season. 
 

On Sunday, if you listen to the Super Bowl LIV television broadcast, you almost certainly will hear the announcers say the key to the San Francisco 49ers’ offense is “outside zone.”

The play concept, while not new, has been instrumental to San Francisco’s success. The 49ers, 4-12 last season, sit a win over the Kansas City Chiefs from their first Super Bowl championship since the 1994 season, in large part because of a rushing attack that ranked second in the league this season at 144.1 yards per game and became an integral part of the team’s identity.

The NFL remains a passing league, but the 49ers used a run-heavy offense to blow past the Minnesota Vikings and Green Bay Packers in the playoffs by taking advantage of the play-calling of Coach Kyle Shanahan and a trio of speedy running backs — Raheem Mostert, Matt Breida and Tevin Coleman. Quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo attempted only eight passes in the 37-20 win over the Packers that gave the 49ers the NFC title.

How does outside zone work? Where did it come from? And what does it mean for Sunday’s matchup? Let’s take a look:

How does outside zone work?

Outside zone is a running play on which offensive linemen focus their blocks on zones, or spaces on the field, as opposed to specific defenders (which is referred to as man-to-man blocking). It calls upon linemen to caravan toward the sideline and push back whichever defenders are in the way. Running backs are asked to look for three options: “bounce” outside, “bang” a cut upfield between the linemen or “bend” on a cutback across the formation.

“You need [running backs] who find the lane, put their foot on the gas pedal and get 0 to 10 fast,” ESPN analyst Matt Bowen said.

The scheme can be boom-or-bust. No run play gets stuffed for no gain or a loss of yardage more often, and no run play yields more plays of 20-plus yards. In pursuit of the type of chunk plays that are necessary to win in the modern NFL (more commonly achieved through the passing game), teams have to keep hammering away in search of pay dirt. This is true even for the 49ers, who ran it better than any other team on their way to the Super Bowl

“Outside zone is a war of attrition,” said Dave McGinnis, a longtime NFL coach. The people who are successful with it are patient.”

What’s the origin of outside zone?

The importance of zone blocking traces to Kyle Shanahan’s father, Mike, who helped innovate the idea in the early 1990s to counter the Pittsburgh Steelers’ zone blitz. Steelers defensive coordinator Dom Capers disrupted the offensive line’s man-to-man blocking assignments with concepts such as blitzing a linebacker and dropping a defensive end into coverage. 

Mike Shanahan, then head coach of the Denver Broncos, and assistant Alex Gibbs realized something: Offensive linemen should block an area rather than a man.

The scheme was simple, yet each play is delicate. If any defender penetrates the blocking wall, the run can be stuffed. This puts extreme pressure on both teams to control the line of scrimmage, and it emphasizes why everyone must be patient — coaches in their play-calling and players in their execution.

“Timing is everything,” said Packers guard Billy Turner, who plays in the samescheme.

Katie Sowers is the first woman to coach in a Super Bowl. Her goal: ‘Make sure I’m not the last.’

Maintaining every block on every play is hard, so the hit rate is low. But even if an offense only totals 20 yards on its first seven or eight rushes, the coach’s philosophy is this: My players will do their jobs more often than your players will. Boom, then there’s a 60- or 70-yarder, and the defender’s saying, ‘He only had one long run!’ ” said Dennis Thurman, a longtime defensive coach. “But how disciplined were you? [Outside zone] only takes one guy breaking down.”

That flexibility proved difficult for opponents to defend. The Broncos won Super Bowl titles in the 1997 and 1998 seasons, and Terrell Davis, the quintessential “one-cut” running back who thrived in Shanahan’s outside zone scheme, landed in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. 
 

One similarity that Shanahan uses in his favor is a personnel grouping — two-running-back sets — that is less common in today’s game. Defenses aren’t used to facing offenses with such a power run-heavy approach — even other outside zone-heavy teams, such as the Los Angeles Rams, typically operate out of one-back, three-wide-receiver lineups — but the 49ers have a fullback in Kyle Juszcyzk and a tight end in George Kittle who are powerful blockers and still versatile enough to factor into the passing game. 

The biggest difference in Shanahan’s version of the outside zone is the way he dresses up plays to confuse the defense. He runs multiple plays out of multiple formations to avoid developing tendencies that opponents can identify in advance. He deploys presnap motion and play-action at rates that rank among the highest in the NFL, creating what defenders refer to as “eye candy” — and forcing the defensive players to think longer and play slower.

“Speed is everything,” McGinnis said. “If you make a slow, correct decision on defense, you’re wrong.”

If this is a line-of-scrimmage game, San Francisco is Super Bowl champion,” Bowen said. “If they can control the offensive front, it’s over.”

Simply slowing San Francisco’s rushing attack won’t be enough to guarantee a Chiefs victory. The threat of outside zone unlocks the rest of the 49ers’ offense. 

 

The line of thinking here is that Fant will be a better player in Gase’s offense as he’s very athletic and a better fit for zone scheme?  I hope that’s the case, not sure if I buy it - but I am def. holding out hope.

Do we know what what did Seattle ran? 

I have noticed two things coming from these OL signings..

1) They are definitely the athletic type over size - fits the system - seems to me the GM and HC are in lock-step.  

2) They seem to be smart players that don’t commit a whole lot of penalties

And yes, Draft will tell us a lot. 

[BCJet]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The line of thinking here is that Fant will be a better player in Gase’s offense as he’s very athletic and a better fit for zone scheme?  I hope that’s the case, not sure if I buy it - but I am def. holding out hope.

Do we know what what did Seattle ran? 

I have noticed two things coming from these OL signings..

1) They are definitely the athletic type over size - fits the system - seems to me the GM and HC are in lock-step.  

2) They seem to be smart players that don’t commit a whole lot of penalties

And yes, Draft will tell us a lot. 

This is an excerpt from a December 2018 article about the Seahawks

Seattle’s ground game has also been more schematically diverse. Fired along with Bevell was offensive line coach Tom Cable and his strict outside zone running game. Hired with Schottenheimer was 63-year-old O-line coach Mike Solari, who has helped install a bevy of man-to-man run-blocking designs, misdirectional jets sweeps and traditional inside zone runs, with double-team blocks at the point of attack.

I do think that as far as run blocking Fant is better off on the move, in space as opposed to trying to push DL around.

[Ghost]

I’m loving what JD is doing. He said he’s going to focus on the offensive line and he has done exactly that. 
 

The picture GVR posted is awesome. Very good player and fits the personality this team is taking. 
 

Fant - I do not know much about him, but I am glad we do not have a long term commitment to him. If he plays great, then we keep him at his current salary. If not, we can easily cut him. 
 

Although this is not the sexy pick, but I still think we should go offensive line in rounds 1 and 2. 

[32EBoozer]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The line of thinking here is that Fant will be a better player in Gase’s offense as he’s very athletic and a better fit for zone scheme?  I hope that’s the case, not sure if I buy it - but I am def. holding out hope.

Do we know what what did Seattle ran? 

I have noticed two things coming from these OL signings..

1) They are definitely the athletic type over size - fits the system - seems to me the GM and HC are in lock-step.  

2) They seem to be smart players that don’t commit a whole lot of penalties

And yes, Draft will tell us a lot. 

I was beginning to type a post on this exact point. Being out in space, you can easily reach and hold. Signing disciplined players is half the battle. Being able to move as a unit is very important. If there are holes when moving left or right. That’s what can get Sam killed. 
 

This new scheme plays to Sam’s strength. He’s much more accurate on the move and can break off some easy runs. This may also be the reason Robbie isn’t being signed. Not a disciplined route runner. Need more of a Debo Samuel type receiver who makes DB’s miss tackles and big YAC. 

[mrcoops]

Some nice Van Roten clips here. Shows mobility, smarts and a killer instinct in these.

Now, can someone more familiar with the intricacies of line play tell me why Van Roten taps the Center on the side before almost every single snap? Checking his spacing? Sending a signal? 

[rangerous]

interesting discussion in this thread about what type of blocking system the jets will be running and how the players douglas has signed fit this scheme.  i offer another observation.  it looks like the jets are also building quite a bit of depth and it could be that they plan on rotating the oline quite a bit to keep the players fresh.  we'll see what happens.  the draft is going to be interesting.

[slats]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

interesting discussion in this thread about what type of blocking system the jets will be running and how the players douglas has signed fit this scheme.  i offer another observation.  it looks like the jets are also building quite a bit of depth and it could be that they plan on rotating the oline quite a bit to keep the players fresh.  we'll see what happens.  the draft is going to be interesting.

Before free agency started, I expected an OT in the first or second round and a G/C in the third. I no longer expect any interior OL drafted until the end of the draft, if at all. 

[ChuckkieB]

Now THIS is a good signing.  Darnold might just survive the 2020 season after all.

[rangerous]

Just now, slats said:

Before free agency started, I expected an OT in the first or second round and a G/C in the third. I no longer expect any interior OL drafted until the end of the draft, if at all. 

yep.  that's probably true.  of course there's always a chance these recent signings don't have good training camps.  it does sound like the guys douglas has gotten are lunch pail guys who come to play.

[section314]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The line of thinking here is that Fant will be a better player in Gase’s offense as he’s very athletic and a better fit for zone scheme?  I hope that’s the case, not sure if I buy it - but I am def. holding out hope.

Do we know what what did Seattle ran? 

I have noticed two things coming from these OL signings..

1) They are definitely the athletic type over size - fits the system - seems to me the GM and HC are in lock-step.  

2) They seem to be smart players that don’t commit a whole lot of penalties

And yes, Draft will tell us a lot. 

Also, reading the part on how it works, when they get to the part about the RB, seems like Bell is definitely not the guy to be using this system with.

[rangerous]

16 hours ago, Jets723 said:

I like what Douglas is doing.  I know many fans wanted Conklin or Glasgow but I like the moves he has made especially with McGovern and Van Roten.  Bringing back Lewis was good too.  I think we are in a good position in the draft too.  

yep.  conklin or thuney or glasgow were the sexy picks but in a real sense just how much better are these guys than the ones they got?  is it a 10 versus a 5 or a 10 versus an 8.  i have a feeling the jets are looking mainly for guy who can fit their blocking schemes.