Championship Teams Retain Special Players

[JetsLife]

Why is it not long after we traded Keyshawn and Revis they were soon part of championship teams? (Makes no difference Revis was in NE - another championship team, cheaters yes, scooped him up). Because championship teams recognize special players who teams must account for.

Adams is a difference maker. He influences the offense when he’s at the LOS. 

Make him the highest-paid safety in NFL history and don’t look back. It’s a bad precedent to tear up his deal after year 3; but every player and every deal is different. Adams is the AAPL of safeties - you don’t let go of such an asset, you pay the premium and watch your investment grow. And then for a little while it becomes a bargain.

Also: sure safety isn’t the most valuable position on D, but it has become a premium position in the flag-football modern NFL. ‘19 Honey Badger with his big contract in KC and they win it all; Earl Thomas in Baltimore they get the No. 1 seed. Thomas & Chancellor LOB Seattle. Denver’s ‘15 safeties. Safety position has always been strong at the Cheating Pats. And so on. 

 

 

 

[T0mShane]

[kdels62]

As long as we play Haskins and Jones in the playoffs he’ll really help us.

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, JetsLife said:

Make him the highest-paid safety in NFL history and don’t look back.

[themeangreenkillingmachine]

So if Keyshawn and Revis weren’t traded the Jets would’ve had 2 more superbowls?

[ZachEY]

23 minutes ago, JetsLife said:

Makes no difference Revis was in NE - another championship team, cheaters yes, scooped him up)

[slimjasi]

"Special player" is in the eye of the beholder. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

I'm fine with keeping Adams, but the the premise of this thread is pretty much out the window once you look at what the Patriots have done the last 15 years. They have made a living off of letting go really good players rather than overpay them. 

[BROOKLYN JET]

How many of these championship teams are retaining 15-18 million dollar special player safeties?

[BROOKLYN JET]

Why is it Keyshawn and Revis were not safeties?

[JohnnyLV]

Can we just create a single  Jamal Adams thread or maybe its own subforum like the draft? This really REALLY did not need its own thread.

[Wonderboy]

Last I heard Sam isn’t going anywhere so this OP is senseless.

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, JetsLife said:

Adams is a difference maker.

What is our record in 2018 and 2019 if we hadn't had Adams, and just had an average Strong Safety?

[Greenbloodblitz]

 Total BS!

In fact It's usually the polar opposite!

Normally teams that make the big dance are followed up by a huge Exodus with players and coaches abandoning ship.

 

[68JET11]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I'm very proud of you this time lol... You got in there right away

[rangerous]

14 hours ago, JetsLife said:

Why is it not long after we traded Keyshawn and Revis they were soon part of championship teams? (Makes no difference Revis was in NE - another championship team, cheaters yes, scooped him up). Because championship teams recognize special players who teams must account for.

Adams is a difference maker. He influences the offense when he’s at the LOS. 

Make him the highest-paid safety in NFL history and don’t look back. It’s a bad precedent to tear up his deal after year 3; but every player and every deal is different. Adams is the AAPL of safeties - you don’t let go of such an asset, you pay the premium and watch your investment grow. And then for a little while it becomes a bargain.

Also: sure safety isn’t the most valuable position on D, but it has become a premium position in the flag-football modern NFL. ‘19 Honey Badger with his big contract in KC and they win it all; Earl Thomas in Baltimore they get the No. 1 seed. Thomas & Chancellor LOB Seattle. Denver’s ‘15 safeties. Safety position has always been strong at the Cheating Pats. And so on. 

 

 

 

i don't care if they do make him the highest paid safety but it has to be in concert with what the near future plans are.  it makes no sense to give him a ton of money if it keeps the jets from signing players who might be more valuable, or even multiple players.  as for the examples of revis, keyshawn, et al, teams on the verge of a superbowl can afford to pick up that one last piece and even overpay.  in the case of key, tampa traded two 1st round picks.  so the value of the picks was in excess of what key brought to the team.  also that jet team wasn't close to being a superbowl contender with vinny firmly on the backside of his career and the changes in going from parcells to groh.  same thing for revis although they didn't get as much compensation for the trade.

[EM31]

Look no further than the Patriots for an example of how championship teams are built and maintained.  The list of players who got too expansive to keep is extremely long.  Many of these were at the top of the league in terms of their position when the Patriots decided to cut ties because their salary demands would have wrecked the Patriots long term cap position.

• Ty Law
• Mike Vrabel
• Deion Branch
• Brandin Cooks
• Logan Mankins
• Wes Welker
• Malcom Butler
• Jamie Collins
• Chandler Jones
• Richard Seymour
• jimmy Garopolo
• Adam Vinitari
• Randy Moss
• Drew Bledsoe
• Lawyer Milloy

Now let's talk about Revis.  New England got him for cheap and he got himself a ring.  They would never have been serious bidders for Revis unless he came down below his price to other teams.

So to the OP.... It is a mark of truly successful teams that they make the tough calls early and manage their cap position with a long term view in mind.  THEY DO NOT SIMPLY CAVE IN TO THE DEMANDS of star players who want to break the bank.  Go break someone else's bank, we have a winner to build here.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Look no further than the Patriots for an example of how championship teams are built and maintained.  The list of players who got too expansive to keep is extremely long.  Many of these were at the top of the league in terms of their position when the Patriots decided to cut ties because their salary demands would have wrecked the Patriots long term cap position.

• Ty Law
• Mike Vrabel
• Deion Branch
• Brandin Cooks
• Logan Mankins
• Wes Welker
• Malcom Butler
• Jamie Collins
• Chandler Jones
• Richard Seymour
• jimmy Garopolo
• Adam Vinitari
• Randy Moss
• Drew Bledsoe
• Lawyer Milloy

Now let's talk about Revis.  New England got him for cheap and he got himself a ring.  They would never have been serious bidders for Revis unless he came down below his price to other teams.

So to the OP.... It is a mark of truly successful teams that they make the tough calls early and manage their cap position with a long term view in mind.  THEY DO NOT SIMPLY CAVE IN TO THE DEMANDS of star players who want to break the bank.  Go break someone else's bank, we have a winner to build here.

The Patriots had Tom Brady, that sounds be removed from this discussion.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Look no further than the Patriots for an example of how championship teams are built and maintained.  The list of players who got too expansive to keep is extremely long.  Many of these were at the top of the league in terms of their position when the Patriots decided to cut ties because their salary demands would have wrecked the Patriots long term cap position.

• Ty Law
• Mike Vrabel
• Deion Branch
• Brandin Cooks
• Logan Mankins
• Wes Welker
• Malcom Butler
• Jamie Collins
• Chandler Jones
• Richard Seymour
• jimmy Garopolo
• Adam Vinitari
• Randy Moss
• Drew Bledsoe
• Lawyer Milloy

Now let's talk about Revis.  New England got him for cheap and he got himself a ring.  They would never have been serious bidders for Revis unless he came down below his price to other teams.

So to the OP.... It is a mark of truly successful teams that they make the tough calls early and manage their cap position with a long term view in mind.  THEY DO NOT SIMPLY CAVE IN TO THE DEMANDS of star players who want to break the bank.  Go break someone else's bank, we have a winner to build here.

That’s a pretty solid response. This thread is busted! Well done. 

[The Crusher]

Just now, nyjunc said:

The Patriots had Tom Brady, that sounds be removed from this discussion.

Brady didn’t play defense. 

[Scoop24]

13 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Can we just create a single  Jamal Adams thread or maybe its own subforum like the draft? This really REALLY did not need its own thread.

Agreed ain’t like it ain’t same people recycling the same takes over and over in Each post anyway .

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Brady didn’t play defense. 

They won because of Brady and the offense. Every player changed around him on the team and they never stopped winning.

[Scoop24]

9 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Look no further than the Patriots for an example of how championship teams are built and maintained.  The list of players who got too expansive to keep is extremely long.  Many of these were at the top of the league in terms of their position when the Patriots decided to cut ties because their salary demands would have wrecked the Patriots long term cap position.

• Ty Law
• Mike Vrabel
• Deion Branch
• Brandin Cooks
• Logan Mankins
• Wes Welker
• Malcom Butler
• Jamie Collins
• Chandler Jones
• Richard Seymour
• jimmy Garopolo
• Adam Vinitari
• Randy Moss
• Drew Bledsoe
• Lawyer Milloy

Now let's talk about Revis.  New England got him for cheap and he got himself a ring.  They would never have been serious bidders for Revis unless he came down below his price to other teams.

So to the OP.... It is a mark of truly successful teams that they make the tough calls early and manage their cap position with a long term view in mind.  THEY DO NOT SIMPLY CAVE IN TO THE DEMANDS of star players who want to break the bank.  Go break someone else's bank, we have a winner to build here.

And yet they paid  there all pro safety in McCourty 3 times effectively making him a pat for life.. I wonder why that is 

[EM31]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

The Patriots had Tom Brady, that sounds be removed from this discussion.

I get it that they had Brady and so letting go of Drew Bledsoe does not seem to fit the pattern but the list was somebody else's list and drew Bledsoe was still a big name player who they decided to part ways with.  Almost all of the others (to a man) would have caused a riot here on these boards if they were NY Jets and the team decided to part ways with them. 

Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Adam Vinitari and Richard Seymour in particular were more accomplished or at least as accomplished as Jamal Adams is today and all of them had a ring or rings to emphasize that point.

[EM31]

3 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

And yet they paid  there all pro safety in McCourty 3 times effectively making him a pat for life.. I wonder why that is 

Maybe McCourty was not trying to break the bank.

[nyjunc]

Just now, EM31 said:

I get it that they had Brady and so letting go of Drew Bledsoe does not seem to fit the pattern but the list was somebody else's list and drew Bledsoe was still a big name player who they decided to part ways with.  Almost all of the others (to a man) would have caused a riot here on these boards if they were NY Jets and the team decided to part ways with them. 

Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Adam Vinitari and Richard Seymour in particular were more accomplished or at least as accomplished as Jamal Adams is today and all of them had a ring or rings to emphasize that point.

My point wasn't about Bledsoe, it was about all of them. Brady is the best QB of all time, he was able to win no matter who was around him.  He made it easy to let higher priced players go and to continuously move down in the draft to acquire more picks of lower salaried players.  The NE situation was very unique.

There are other examples of teams moving on from good players and still winning, personally I disregard the NE examples because of Brady.

[Scoop24]

1 minute ago, EM31 said:

Maybe McCourty was not trying to break the bank.

He definitely did reset the safety market on his 2nd contract. But hey good teams don’t pay there stars right lol

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They won because of Brady and the offense. Every player changed around him on the team and they never stopped winning.

They went 11-5 with Matt Cassel.  

[EM31]

Just now, nyjunc said:

My point wasn't about Bledsoe, it was about all of them. Brady is the best QB of all time, he was able to win no matter who was around him.  He made it easy to let higher priced players go and to continuously move down in the draft to acquire more picks of lower salaried players.  The NE situation was very unique.

There are other examples of teams moving on from good players and still winning, personally I disregard the NE examples because of Brady.

I think you are inadvertently making the argument against yourself.

If the player wanting a new deal was Sam Darnold then maybe we are having a different conversation.  We are talking about a Safety here, a position at which we are stacked.  Adams is the furthest thing from being indispensable.

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

They went 11-5 with Matt Cassel.  

Awesome job losing 5 more games than a year earlier against a much weaker schedule while still missing the playoffs with a QB who would win a division title in Kansas City just 2 years later.

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, EM31 said:

I think you are inadvertently making the argument against yourself.

If the player wanting a new deal was Sam Darnold then maybe we are having a different conversation.  We are talking about a Safety here, a position at which we are stacked.  Adams is the furthest thing from being indispensable.

I'm not disagreeing with your premise, I'm disagreeing with the example.  No other team could sustain those losses and still be a championship contender every year like NE.  Brady made that situation unique.

[ZachEY]

Jamal Adams now has more threads about how great he is than he did tackles in 2019.

[EM31]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I'm not disagreeing with your premise, I'm disagreeing with the example.  No other team could sustain those losses and still be a championship contender every year like NE.  Brady made that situation unique.

I was reacting to the premise in the original post where both NE and Revis were cited in the first paragraph.

Brady or no Brady New England have had a reputation for years of managing their cap dollars and roster choices in a very tough way.  I think that proactive cap dollars hawkishness is the true lesson to be learned from the sustained success in New England here,  The very opposite of what was suggested in the OP.

[Untouchable]

Can we please, for the love of god, talk about something else?

Literally anything?

How many dimples do you guys think are on the average football? Let’s talk about that.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, EM31 said:

I was reacting to the premise in the original post where both NE and Revis were cited in the first paragraph.

Brady or no Brady New England have had a reputation for years of managing their cap dollars and roster choices in a very tough way.  I think that proactive cap dollars hawkishness is the true lesson to be learned from the sustained success in New England here,  The very opposite of what was suggested in the OP.

It's easy to do when you have Brady who also takes a below market deal himself.  This wouldn't work with any other QB.