Watson documenting his off-season drama?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Those who continue to try to trash Watson’s stellar resume as both a player and person are out of their minds.

Theres a reason no one says anything bad about Watson, ever. 

This is not a situation where Watson is being exposed or is demonstrating character flaws. This is a situation where being in Houston, with this org, is THAT bad.  

Pretty much whatever he has to do to get out is justifiable at this point.  Teams are going to line up to get him no matter what. And for good reason. You’re getting a 25-year old, elite QB who everyone loves.  

Are they salty?

[freestater]

11 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Nope, not that. Honestly didn’t see it. 

[freestater]

Oops

[MykePM]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Well every time I ask what the reasons are no one has any answers...other than post that stupid photo of the guy.

When someone tells me a better reason I'll stop saying it.  Just saying they're bad managers isn't going to do it.

I read that SI article - still didn't see anything in there specifically bad -  This guy seems like a weird dude and in over his head for sure...

But no specific instance other than they wouldn't let him hire the coach.

First off, please show any evidence that Watson expected the Texans to hire one of the coaches that he recommended.  He reportedly wanted to have some input into the process, and the Texans didn't even bring his guys in for initial interviews (until they brought Bienemy in as damage control after news of Watson's feelings of being disrespected became known).  Would you say that if your most important player and team leader recommends a couple of prospective hires, it would be wise to bring them in for a cursory interview - even if you don't want to hire them?  Can you understand why that player would feel insulted if you didn't even go that far, or are you of the "shut up and play" mindset, even with the most valuable player on your team?  Either way, this is more about respect than control.  Watson wants desperately to help the culture of his struggling team, and they won't even entertain his suggestions.

As it turns out, Watson's recommended coaches (Saleh and Bienemy) were significantly more qualified than the out-of-left-field choice that they ultimately made (Culley, a nice guy who had only been an assistant coach, never a coordinator, and was arguably a failure at that) - which added insult to injury.

The "photo" of the "weird dude" is relevant, because he is a team chaplain who was elevated to arguably the highest football decision-making role on the team - which is a level of dysfunction that the Jets haven't hit in their worst moments.  If you're Watson, the "weird dude" becomes especially relevant when he starts calling your mother and telling her that he disapproves of your life choices (as has been reported).

Again, all of this has been discussed many times in many threads, so either you're not buying any of these reasons, or you'd just prefer to cling to your version of the truth against all evidence to the contrary.

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, MykePM said:

First off, please show any evidence that Watson expected the Texans to hire one of the coaches that he recommended.  He reportedly wanted to have some input into the process, and the Texans didn't even bring his guys in for initial interviews (until they brought Bienemy in as damage control after news of Watson's feelings of being disrespected became known).  Would you say that if your most important player and team leader recommends a couple of prospective hires, it would be wise to bring them in for a cursory interview - even if you don't want to hire them?  Can you understand why that player would feel insulted if you didn't even go that far, or are you of the "shut up and play" mindset, even with the most valuable player on your team?  Either way, this is more about respect than control.  Watson wants desperately to help the culture of his struggling team, and they won't even entertain his suggestions.

As it turns out, Watson's recommended coaches (Saleh and Bienemy) were significantly more qualified than the out-of-left-field choice that they ultimately made (Culley, a nice guy who had only been an assistant coach, never a coordinator, and was arguably a failure at that) - which added insult to injury.

The "photo" of the "weird dude" is relevant, because he is a team chaplain who was elevated to arguably the highest football decision-making role on the team - which is a level of dysfunction that the Jets haven't hit in their worst moments.  If you're Watson, the "weird dude" becomes especially relevant when he starts calling your mother and telling her that he disapproves of your life choices (as has been reported).

Again, all of this has been discussed many times in many threads, so either you're not buying any of these reasons, or you'd just prefer to cling to your version of the truth against all evidence to the contrary.

Name all the Jet QB's that felt disrespected when the team hired GM's and HC's they didn't approve of?? And then asked to be traded?? Yes Jamal wasn't happy when he didn't get a contract he wanted but last time I checked the Seahawks haven't given him one either.. 

[Dcat]

11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Is this really the guy we want to give up 4 first round picks for?

 

Now it's 4?  LOL.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

It's not about PR. it's about long term success. If he sits this year, if they burn cap space and critical roster development on the futile hope that they get him back and get no assets in return for not having him, they'll have set that franchise back 3 years. From a pure football perspective, it's the worst move they can make

If he sits out this year I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t against their cap because they won’t have to pay him. Or anyway, cap-wise it’d show up as a credit the following year. They may have another credit coming their way if he sits out because he took their signing bonus — he may have to give all or some of that back, and that still wouldn’t let him out of the contract extension. Moreover, by then he’ll have already paid income tax on that signing bonus, but he’ll have to pay a pre-tax amount back (whether entirely or some amortized amount).

Houston has two problems this year: one is they suck, and have little opportunity to improve this year; two is the PR fiasco they’ve got going with Watson.

Taking the second part first, I don’t think trading Watson will ever have them coming out on top PR-wise unless they win a SB (or enjoys greater success) without him before he does so away from Houston. Since he has a no-trade clause, he’s not going to allow a trade to anywhere he doesn’t want to go.

As far as the first part, yes they could jumpstart a rebuild a year earlier with a haul for Watson that includes 2021 picks that Houston badly needs. But since they don’t have much cap room either, they’ll be rebuilding primarily with rookies — that’s good for the long-term (and they’re cheaper) but most don’t play at veteran starter levels right away. Point being, they’re still going to suck. By next year, in addition to getting back their own full amount of draft picks (independent of any Watson trade) they’ll also be able to fit newcomer veterans by getting out of currently-guaranteed contracts. 

His trade value is surely higher now than it’d be a year from now if he sits out the year for Houston. But it also highlights something else that’s getting overlooked here: Houston does not actually want to trade him. This is a one-way street, not a two-way. He wants out but Houston wants him to stay. If he doesn’t get his wish of getting traded, he may ultimately agree to return by next year (if he sits out 2021). The team isn’t totally out of the driver’s seat here.

[MykePM]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

Name all the Jet QB's that felt disrespected when the team hired GM's and HC's they didn't approve of?? And then asked to be traded?? Yes Jamal wasn't happy when he didn't get a contract he wanted but last time I checked the Seahawks haven't given him one either.. 

Name a Jets QB that was ever a top 5 QB in the league (and Watson is arguably better) and deserved that level of respect.  Namath announced that he was quitting football because the NFL wanted him to sell his nightclub.  Should we kick him out of the Ring of Honor?

And, for the millionth time, Watson is not asking to be traded because the Texans did not hire the HC and GM that he wanted.  Amongst other reasons, he is upset because they said he would have input in the process, and then completely blew off his feedback.  Watson didn't want control over the hirings.  As a team leader, he wanted to help drive positive change in the organization and the team made it clear that they weren't interested.

And regardless of how it turned out, the dysfunctional, Maccagnan-led Jets even let Sam freakin' Darnold have some say in the hiring of Gase - or at least created the illusion that he did, out of respect.

[Sperm Edwards]

53 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Now it's 4?  LOL.

It’s 11. This one goes up to 11. 

[FidelioJet]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

Now it's 4?  LOL.

You think it might be 5?

You could be right - but I was trying to be conservative.

[JustInFudge]

There is some clear underlining sh*t here as always is when it comes to a player like Watson but sure lets pretend you people are actually worked up about this "documentary" that you know nothing about.  The same idiots that were calling Watson a diva for taking the contract and now wanting out are the same morons knocking Watson for this apparently shameful thing he's doing and let that be who Watson is and not everything else that we know to be actual fact that Watson is one of the classiest guys in the league and most of us here with an open mind, would dream about out daughters marrying a genuinely awesome person like Watson.

Oh and news flash; QB's are diva's.  Brett Favre retired 25 times and his life is filled with controversy including drug addition and infidelity.

Tom Brady cried on TV that the hardest day in his life was the day he was drafted - ask Watson what the hardest day in his life is.

Rodgers on the req is crying like a little mopey bitch as he discount double takes and get Rodgers rates with his Mahomey.

Russell Wilson has videos of him need to cook or some sh*t and is upset with Seattle every offseason.

And the ******* list goes on...

Oh and for those of you crying like babies about this, let me know who is on Hard Knocks this year.  You pansy asses. 

 

[Philc1]

13 hours ago, Savage69 said:

People should chill till the Texans decide what they are going to do and what they would want for Warson. Till then it's pointless to argue with no real facts to go on..

Problem is the Texans don’t have a plan.  They literally traded the best WR in football for a running back and a 2nd

 

The lions didn’t do us any favors robbing the Rams of 2 firsts for Stafford.  If it wasn’t for that trade setting the market ridiculously high Watson is a jet already 

[jetophile]

18 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jamal Watson

Deshaun Revis.

[Dcat]

The comparisons to Adams and Revis are flat out dumb.  Everybody in this thread talking through their collective anus. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

50 minutes ago, JiF said:

There is some clear underlining sh*t here as always is when it comes to a player like Watson but sure lets pretend you people are actually worked up about this "documentary" that you know nothing about.  The same idiots that were calling Watson a diva for taking the contract and now wanting out are the same morons knocking Watson for this apparently shameful thing he's doing and let that be who Watson is and not everything else that we know to be actual fact that Watson is one of the classiest guys in the league and most of us here with an open mind, would dream about out daughters marrying a genuinely awesome person like Watson.

Oh and news flash; QB's are diva's.  Brett Favre retired 25 times and his life is filled with controversy including drug addition and infidelity.

Tom Brady cried on TV that the hardest day in his life was the day he was drafted - ask Watson what the hardest day in his life is.

Rodgers on the req is crying like a little mopey bitch as he discount double takes and get Rodgers rates with his Mahomey.

Russell Wilson has videos of him need to cook or some sh*t and is upset with Seattle every offseason.

And the ******* list goes on...

Oh and for those of you crying like babies about this, let me know who is on Hard Knocks this year.  You pansy asses. 

 

What’s the underlying sh*t and whose crying? I don’t like it. I don’t like it when any player pulls sh*t like this. Is it the end of the world, of course not, will I root for him if he comes here, of course. But people are allowed to have opinions on situations, no?

[FidelioJet]

33 minutes ago, JiF said:

There is some clear underlining sh*t here as always is when it comes to a player like Watson but sure lets pretend you people are actually worked up about this "documentary" that you know nothing about.  The same idiots that were calling Watson a diva for taking the contract and now wanting out are the same morons knocking Watson for this apparently shameful thing he's doing and let that be who Watson is and not everything else that we know to be actual fact that Watson is one of the classiest guys in the league and most of us here with an open mind, would dream about out daughters marrying a genuinely awesome person like Watson.

Oh and news flash; QB's are diva's.  Brett Favre retired 25 times and his life is filled with controversy including drug addition and infidelity.

Tom Brady cried on TV that the hardest day in his life was the day he was drafted - ask Watson what the hardest day in his life is.

Rodgers on the req is crying like a little mopey bitch as he discount double takes and get Rodgers rates with his Mahomey.

Russell Wilson has videos of him need to cook or some sh*t and is upset with Seattle every offseason.

And the ******* list goes on...

Oh and for those of you crying like babies about this, let me know who is on Hard Knocks this year.  You pansy asses. 

 

How'd the Favre thing work out for us?

Good guy or bad guy isn't really the point.  I honestly couldn't care less if he was the best guy on the planet, based on what I've heard about him on JN I expect he'll be Sainted soon - so I say good him.

But with that said...

I have little to no doubt once we traded away 4 first round picks for him we will ...

1) Have to give him a new contract and make him the highest paid QB in the league 

2) Have no premium picks or cap money for two years- we'll still be a terrible team

3) The NY media will be all over him and team for giving away all those assets and losing for two years - it will get ugly fast. He will force his way off the Jets as soon as he possibly can.

Good guy, bad guy - great players, overrated -  Diva, Humble...11 wins or 4.  I really don't care.

Bottom line, for me, the trade will backfire on the Jets.  And it is so predictable exactly how it will play out..

We have the picks and cap space to build a team the right way for the first time in a very long time.  Let's not look for shortcuts. 

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

What’s the underlying sh*t and whose crying? I don’t like it. I don’t like it when any player pulls sh*t like this. Is it the end of the world, of course not, will I root for him if he comes here, of course. But people are allowed to have opinions on situations, no?

I'm sorry, did I say you guys couldnt cry like babies over this?  I dont think I did.  Feel free, you do you, I'll just be over here calling out how stupid it is.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

There is some clear underlining sh*t here as always is when it comes to a player like Watson

 

Please expand on that.

 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

How'd the Favre thing work out for us?

Good guy or bad guy isn't really the point.  I honestly couldn't care less if he was the best guy on the planet, based on what I've heard about him on JN I expect he'll be Sainted soon - so I say good him.

But with that said...

I have little to no doubt once we traded away 4 first round picks for him we will ...

1) Have to give him a new contract and make him the highest paid QB in the league 

2) Have no premium picks or cap money for two years- we'll still be a terrible team

3) The NY media will be all over him and team for giving away all those assets and losing for two years - it will get ugly fast. He will force his way off the Jets as soon as he possibly can.

Good guy, bad guy - great players, overrated -  Diva, Humble...11 wins or 4.  I really don't care.

Bottom line, for me, the trade will backfire on the Jets.  And it is so predictable exactly how it will play out..

We have the picks and cap space to build a team the right way for the first time in a very long time.  Let's not look for shortcuts. 

Nothing here has anything to do with what I said but dont worry homey, the Jets are 100% not trading for Watson. They're drafting your boo sauce, so you should be stoked! 

That is until he laughably bust out of the league and we'll looking for another QB in 2 years but yooooo!!!!  At least they did it the right way!!!!!

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Please expand on that.

 

You're smart enough.

[Biggs]

13 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes.

Watson gets paid a lot of money to play QB for an NFL franchise.  His job is to score points and win games.

His job isn't to determine who or what runs the organization.  Now, truthfully, I really don't care if this is what he's decided to do...that's his business - to each his own.  I just don't want it anywhere near the Jets.

What happens next time JD does something he doesn't like?  Will he call in the film crew?

Your complaint that Watson doesn't get input isn't the issue.  The issue is he doesn't want to play for them anymore.  That's his right.  He has every right to ask for a trade.   He has every right not to play, sit out and not get paid.  

This idea you have that an owner can change leadership without input which is his right means that the employees, including the key employees that do a great job, can't decide they don't want to work in that environment.  They can.  The boss may have the last word on who runs the place but he doesn't get to tell the employees to shut up and take it unless they shut up and take it.

Based on what Saleh said about JD and why he took the Jets job he was pretty clear that he liked the collaborative nature from the top down in decision making that impacts the team.  I seem to recall that when we tried to hire Rhule, Mac tried to dictate who he's coaches would be and Rhule told him no thanks.  

Some companies make decisions through a collaborative effort and some companies the boss dictates without collaboration.  Employees aren't property and they don't have to take it.  Employers who ignore that may face consequences.  They may not care which is okay.  

One thing about Douglas is I'm sure if Watson wanted out he would get full value for him.  

 

[playtowinthegame]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Watson is and not everything else that we know to be actual fact that Watson is one of the classiest guys in the league and most of us here with an open mind, would dream about out daughters marrying a genuinely awesome person like Watson.

WTF

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

You're smart enough.

If you're going to go there you really should have courage to say it.

I like you, honestly enjoy our discussions - but I find things like that to weak minded, entirely unfair and unjustified.

But if that works for you - I say keep it up.  I'll just stay away.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Your complaint that Watson doesn't get input isn't the issue.  The issue is he doesn't want to play for them anymore.  That's his right.  He has every right to ask for a trade.   He has every right not to play, sit out and not get paid.  

This idea you have that an owner can change leadership without input which is his right means that the employees, including the key employees that do a great job, can't decide they don't want to work in that environment.  They can.  The boss may have the last word on who runs the place but he doesn't get to tell the employees to shut up and take it unless they shut up and take it.

Based on what Saleh said about JD and why he took the Jets job he was pretty clear that he liked the collaborative nature from the top down in decision making that impacts the team.  I seem to recall that when we tried to hire Rhule, Mac tried to dictate who he's coaches would be and Rhule told him no thanks.  

Some companies make decisions through a collaborative effort and some companies the boss dictates without collaboration.  Employees aren't property and they don't have to take it.  Employers who ignore that may face consequences.  They may not care which is okay.  

 

I agree with that...

I'm just quite confident we're going to be in the same in two years from now.  A losing team, with a top QB that's forcing his away off the team.  We simply won't have the resources to build a winner around him.

If they trade for him - and I honestly believe the Jets are surely in the mix to trade for him - I'll be super excited to have him on the team - I'm just saying I believe it will backfire.

 

[AlexVanDyke]

20 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Is this really the guy we want to give up 4 first round picks for?

Someone that's documenting his life to share it with people another time?

This is the type of ego, the woe is me attitude - he is acting like the definition of a spoiled superstar.

I was on the fence on this trade - but absolutely want NOTHING to do with him...

I now have no doubt the moment things get bumpy here he will start pulling the same sh*t...

I generally agree with you and dislike this type of narcissism and ego and despise the fact it is often celebrated and applauded by the espns of the world.  But I will also say in this case, it was probably smart of him to document such a toxic situation.  Will be interesting to see what all this is about.  

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

I generally agree with you and dislike this type of narcissism and ego and despise the fact it is often celebrated and applauded by the espns of the world.  But I will also say in this case, it was probably smart of him to document such a toxic situation.  Will be interesting to see what all this is about.  

I think I agree.  I probably should have withheld judgement a bit.  

I don't like the idea that it was tweeted the way it was, but not even sure that was him.

I don't like this stuff - but it does seem to be a volatile situation and who really knows what's going on.  

I think the relationship is beyond repair and he will eventually be traded - Texans will come to the conclusion that ultimately it's in their best interest to move him now.

[Biggs]

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with that...

I'm just quite confident we're going to be in the same in two years from now.  A losing team, with a top QB that's forcing his away off the team.  We simply won't have the resources to build a winner around him.

If they trade for him - and I honestly believe the Jets are surely in the mix to trade for him - I'll be super excited to have him on the team - I'm just saying I believe it will backfire.

 

I love Watson and would love to have him.  I'm not sure we can build a winner around him if we gave up a lot of draft capital.  That's really hard to know.  I do know that he's an insanely competitive football player and will play well.  If he doesn't get hurt and the Jets can figure out a way to win with him after trading away a boatload of pick I don't think he will shoot his way off the team.  If he came here and we won with Saleh and Douglas I suspect after his experience in Houston he will be revered by the fans, the media and the corporate sponsors.  If we give up too much and can't win with him, he still will play well and if he wants out we'll get full value.  He'll be 27 and one of the top 3 QB's in the league in 2 years.  

[Integrity28]

15 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

I generally agree with you and dislike this type of narcissism and ego and despise the fact it is often celebrated and applauded by the espns of the world.  But I will also say in this case, it was probably smart of him to document such a toxic situation.  Will be interesting to see what all this is about.  

Right? How do we know it’s narcissism and ego? It really doesn’t strike me as such. As ordinary folks, we can quit a toxic job. We don’t know all the details of what’s going on there, but JJ Watt wanted out - and actually got it. Nobody commented on his ego. Nobody called him a diva. In fact JJ is like Captain America to a lot of football fans.

These are labels that generally get used for some, but not all, players that stand up for themselves. There’s typically some that generally are commenting on behavior, but there’s others that are expressing an unconscious bias. 

Personally, I’ll wait for the facts to come out, because why i don’t want to lend my voice to the latter.

Plus, it’s not my business.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

42 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm sorry, did I say you guys couldnt cry like babies over this?  I dont think I did.  Feel free, you do you, I'll just be over here calling out how stupid it is.

Whose crying? Is not liking it crying?

[chirorob]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It’s 11. This one goes up to 11. 

 

[playtowinthegame]

JiF is like Momma Maria when it comes to Deshaun Watson.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Whose crying? Is not liking it crying?

In a sense, yes.

Once upon a time men didn’t feel the need to weigh in on the affairs of other men. Now it’s constant.

So yes, there’s a lot of figurative crying going on in this thread.

[JustInFudge]

47 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

WTF

^^^ case in point

Triggered by a documentary he knows nothing about, ignores everything else Watson has done his life.

stay classy!

[JustInFudge]

47 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If you're going to go there you really should have courage to say it.

I like you, honestly enjoy our discussions - but I find things like that to weak minded, entirely unfair and unjustified.

But if that works for you - I say keep it up.  I'll just stay away.

 

 

Dude, read the thread.  lmfao.  You have to be kidding me.  

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

In a sense, yes.

Once upon a time men didn’t feel the need to weigh in on the affairs of other men. Now it’s constant.

So yes, there’s a lot of figurative crying going on in this thread.

For what it's worth, I think the Jets are the leading candidate to land Watson..

and I think pretty much everyone here will be fully on board with it - and get behind it - once the move it made.  

I know I for sure will.  

I have concerns now and they're largely around not being able to win with him in the short term and him doing this again in 2 years. 

I thought that's what we do here, is express our views on Jets decisions. 

But once he's a Jet the discussion will move to how to build around him and give him the tools to succeed.