Cimini: Should Jets Be Concerned By Wison's Early Hiccups?

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Yeah... About that long.  Three games is about right.  Not saying I can project his learning curve or anything like that.  Just if he is a sure bust or not.  Even if he is not a sure bust, he may or may not work out in the end.  Only a few years at work will yield answers to that. 

Its actually about as wrong as wrong could be.

Look at other QBs in their first seasons.  A handful out of the 100's start off hitting the ground running after all of 3 games

Anyone can blurt out he wont work out after 3 games.  In the vast majority of the cases you'd be right.  You dont even have to watch a single game

[THE BARON]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its actually about as wrong as wrong could be.

Look at other QBs in their first seasons.  A handful out of the 100's start off hitting the ground running after all of 3 games

Anyone can blurt out he wont work out after 3 games.  In the vast majority of the cases you'd be right.  You dont even have to watch a single game

I'm not planning on blurting out any statement due to a preexisting prejudice.  I'm planning on making observations.  Statistics may support a conclusion before the fact, but that does not invalidate observations. 

If you don't agree with the quality of my observations, it is one thing.  Statistics don't play a part here. 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I'm not planning on blurting out any statement due to a preexisting prejudice.  I'm planning on making observations.  Statistics may support a conclusion before the fact, but that does not invalidate observations. 

If you don't agree with the quality of my observations, it is one thing.  Statistics don't play a part here. 

Dude, no one is making blanket statements about a QB, a player, their careers in all of 3 games

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

No offense but the worst logic ever.  What does Zach, picked by JD have to do with O'B, Chad, Sanchez, Geno or Sam? 

Chiefs went from Dawson to Mahomes and who in-between?  Who'd the Pats draft before Brady?

 

OK...  so 22 years of crappy QB play does have something in common. The Johnsons.  They have hired incompetent management that seems clueless with QB's. Even when they try, they fukk it up. aka Gase.  You can't suck this long without a clear reason.  You defend them ad nauseum but they are terrible businessmen. Terrible. 

[THE BARON]

23 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dude, no one is making blanket statements about a QB, a player, their careers in all of 3 games

Dude, I will be.  How you receive or value my conclusions is up to you.

TUNE IN · Sun 09/26 · Approx 8:05 PM EDT

Be there or be square.... 

[Pac]

Refusing to bring in a capable starter to pair with Zippy may be JDs undoing.  I'm still shocked we're rolling with Wilson, the captain, and Mike white..  Holy sht LOL!

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

Refusing to bring in a capable starter to pair with Zippy may be JDs undoing.  I'm still shocked we're rolling with Wilson, the captain, and Mike white..  Holy sht LOL!

Why?

How does a capable starter help the Jets?

[Defense Wins Championships]

8 minutes ago, Pac said:

Refusing to bring in a capable starter to pair with Zippy may be JDs undoing.  I'm still shocked we're rolling with Wilson, the captain, and Mike white..  Holy sht LOL!

Which career losing backup QB did you want who was actually an available Free Agent? 

(Give me your top 3-5).

Fair warning. Expect for me to nitpick their career losing starting statistics in order to prove (whoever you mention) how they weren't capable starters to begin with and when I say capable, I mean career WINNING one's. 

[Matt39]

Just now, Defense Wins Championships said:

Which career losing backup QB did you want who was actually an available Free Agent? 

(Give me your top 3-5).

Fair warning. Expect for me to nitpick their career losing starting statistics in order to prove (whoever you mention) weren't capable starters to begin with and when I say capable, I mean career WINNING one's. 

Nick Mullens would have been a signing that would have made a ton of sense. Has played competitive football as a backup and knows the system. I dont need you to nitpick Nick Mullens though thanks.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Nick Mullens would have been a signing that would have made a ton of sense. Has played competitive football as a backup and knows the system. I dont need you to nitpick Nick Mullens though thanks.

Why?  What good would it do?

Were the Jets winning a Super Bowl with Nick Mullens? Heck, were the Jets going to the playoffs with Nick Mullens?

 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Why?  What good would it do?

Were the Jets winning a Super Bowl with Nick Mullens? Heck, were the Jets going to the playoffs with Nick Mullens?

 

They went on a minor spending spree this offseason. Im of the belief right now Wilson is nowhere near ready to start a real NFL game. Mullins could do that. Putting a noncompetitive product on the field while watching a rookie get killed because his internal clock is still on Mountain West Conference time isnt going to help anyone. 

[nj meadowlands]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

They went on a minor spending spree this offseason. Im of the belief right now Wilson is nowhere near ready to start a real NFL game. Mullins could do that. Putting a uncompetitive product on the field while watching a rookie get killed because his internal clock is still on Mountain West Conference time isnt going to help anyone. 

Based on some practice tweets. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Based on some practice tweets. 

6 sacks on 23 snaps in practice today. You are going to get him killed like that.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Matt39 said:

They went on a minor spending spree this offseason. Im of the belief right now Wilson is nowhere near ready to start a real NFL game. Mullins could do that. Watching a rookie get killed because his internal clock is still on Mountain West Conference time isnt going to help anyone. 

I just want to make sure I understand your point here...

That after two weeks of practice you've made the determination that our rookie QB is "nowhere near ready to start" and he will "get killed"

Therefor, brining in a QB that will help the Jets go, at best, 7-10 would be the smarter move.

And because JD chose to have faith that letting his #2 overall draft pick learn on the job, instead of bringing in a JAG QB - will be his "undoing"?

Is that what you're saying?

[Defense Wins Championships]

21 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Nick Mullens would have been a signing that would have made a ton of sense. Has played competitive football as a backup and knows the system. I dont need you to nitpick Nick Mullens though thanks.

Nick Mullens? 

I thought the QB backup camp wanted an experienced career winner for veteran backup protection? 

Nick Mullens is only 26 years old and is a former undrafted players from Southern Miss (not even a D1 football program) so I'd much rather take my chances on JD's coaching staff developing our own 4th round draft pick in James Morgan into a quality backup. 

He's only 5-11 overall as a starter (.312%).

I don't believe he's the type of career backup QB who you want trying to save your season if anything were to happen to Zach Wilson and obviously neither did San Francisco. Because if so, they wouldn't of had to (trade the farm in order to trade up and) draft Trey Lance 3rd overall (all while quitting on Nick Mullens @ the same time and after only 3 years too (2-6 just wasn't good enough for them last year).

It's mind boggling to me. To want to quit on a 4th round James Morgan and for what? An undrafted career nothingness? Who San Francisco just absolutely quit on after only 3 years?

No thnx you to Nick Mullens. 

Next....

[Defense Wins Championships]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

6 sacks on 23 snaps in practice today. You are going to get him killed like that.

Or maybe our Saleh led Jets Defense is going to get opposing QBs killed come 2021 because of a beast D-Line like that. 

[nj meadowlands]

I'm actually relieved / refreshed to hear the reportz saying that the kid, and the offense, are taking their lumps in camp.  Tired of reading GLOWING training camp / practice reports (which were never more prevalent than during Sam Darnold's rookie camp) only to be bitch slapped with a harsh reality check by Week 2.

I know there are some posters here who need to stay on the vanguard of having EDGY JETS TAKES, but the obvious bottom line is that we can't tell jack sh*t from practices.  Especially what beat writers and other fans are saying about practices.

[nj meadowlands]

deleted double post

[Matt39]

18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I just want to make sure I understand your point here...

That after two weeks of practice you've made the determination that our rookie QB is "nowhere near ready to start" and he will "get killed"

Therefor, brining in a QB that will help the Jets go, at best, 7-10 would be the smarter move.

And because JD chose to have faith that letting his #2 overall draft pick learn on the job, instead of bringing in a JAG QB - will be his "undoing"?

Is that what you're saying?

Wilson is getting sacked seemingly every other plan in 11-11 work because his reads or super slow right now. That gets players hurt. The amount of sacks he's taking in practice is not competitive. You cant put him on the field if that's happening, it's not fair to him or the other players. Are you seeing things differently? I know most Jets fans fall into the nothing actually matters category, but Im of the belief practice matters. He's not even getting hit yet and he's not seeing things.

[PS17]

4 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I've never created a Twitter account but I think over the weekend I'm going to create one. Just so I can flame these beat writing hacks and expose them for being grown men who attack younger kids with horse crap articles. 

There is a 280 character limit on Twitter. Not sure it’s the best platform for you. 

[oatmeal]

 Cant stand these dudes, before the draft the dude on the right was praying and hoping some how the 49ers would get Zach and was pushing the “Justin Fields bad” narrative, now this ???

 

Smfh ? media 

[UnknownJetFan]

5 hours ago, THE BARON said:

No need to look to Cimini or any of the other talking heads for a proper evaluation of Wilson.  You've got me  

As advertised (by me) and promised (by me), I will announce by the end of game three of the regular season if Wilson is going to be a sure bust, or if he at least has real potential to grow into a reasonably consistent and productive starting NFL QB.

It wont take any longer than that to make the call on Wilson being an absolute bust or not. 

That does not in any way discount the fact that he will have rookie growing pains even if he does exhibit potential.

Stay Tuned !!! 

 

 

I think 3 games will not be enough of a sample for sure. But, if you mean by game 3 you would like to see he is not making the same mistakes as in games 1 and 2, then you are right that would be an indicator which is a major flag. No moreso than any other position in the world is at QB where you just can't keep making the same mistakes over and over again or you will never be any good.

[Claymation]

52 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Nick Mullens would have been a signing that would have made a ton of sense. Has played competitive football as a backup and knows the system. I dont need you to nitpick Nick Mullens though thanks.

For whom? the Jets? I don't know if you have been keeping up with current events but this team isn't winning anything this year. 

[Larz]

Before the draft my feeling based on his college experience was that Wilson should sit a year. 
 

I hope I’m wrong obviously but he needs to start showing that he can get rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds consistently or it’s going to be rough sledding. 
 

I don’t agree with the jets letting the play go on after Lawson taps Wilson on the shoulder. 
 

Knowing when a play is dead and how to deal with that is crucial. 
 

 

[Claymation]

Just now, Larz said:

Before the draft my feeling based on his college experience was that Wilson should sit a year. 
 

I hope I’m wrong obviously but he needs to start showing that he can get rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds consistently or it’s going to be rough sledding. 
 

I don’t agree with the jets letting the play go on after Lawson taps Wilson on the shoulder. 
 

Knowing when a play is dead and how to deal with that is crucial. 
 

 

Why? When Zach gets sacked during a game, he'll know when the play is over. He has played 3 season of college ball before this season, I have a feeling he understands the concept of football. Zach is trying to learn a much more complicated offense, ending the play after a tap on his shoulder does nothing but ends the play. But by finishing the play, it allows the team to finish on what they are working on. NFL preseason stats are worthless, and stats in a practice is even less than that. Teaching the internal clock is the job of the OC, and not the DE tapping on his shoulder.

Here is the grim reality, the Jets have 4 1st-2nd year players who will play prominent roles on this offensive team. Cutting a play short or asking the DL to go easy, would be a detriment to the development of the players. Whether they play well or look bad, it serves no purpose for their development. 

[yvj]

It would have been nice if he got elected into the HOF right after the draft, but I guess sometimes the world isn't fair. 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Wilson is getting sacked seemingly every other plan in 11-11 work because his reads or super slow right now. That gets players hurt. The amount of sacks he's taking in practice is not competitive. You cant put him on the field if that's happening, it's not fair to him or the other players. Are you seeing things differently? I know most Jets fans fall into the nothing actually matters category, but Im of the belief practice matters. He's not even getting hit yet and he's not seeing things.

It's practice.  I know you understand that.  Unless you think Coach Saleh was lying, which I don't as he's seemed to be a straight shooter so far...

He's stated in no uncertain terms that ZW is trying things to see how far he can push it.  That screams to me, NOT taking check down, not throwing the ball away.  Waiting for the play develop and taking a sack if need be.

Moreover, up until yesterday they were just installing the offense.  Every day he was being bombarded with new plays, new reads and new understanding.

To think he has 200% more time left than he's had already I think it's a bit premature to claim his going to get killed because he won't be ready.

[Rangers9]

I love Saleh's answer referring to Peyton Manning. It's smart, accurate and shows good leadership skills. Look the Jets made a decision to jettison a 3 year veteran Qb and start over again. And if it doesn't work out jobs will definitely be on the line. I would really be surprised if Wilson turns out to be a bust. 

[Larz]

43 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Why? When Zach gets sacked during a game, he'll know when the play is over. He has played 3 season of college ball before this season, I have a feeling he understands the concept of football. Zach is trying to learn a much more complicated offense, ending the play after a tap on his shoulder does nothing but ends the play. But by finishing the play, it allows the team to finish on what they are working on. NFL preseason stats are worthless, and stats in a practice is even less than that. Teaching the internal clock is the job of the OC, and not the DE tapping on his shoulder.

Here is the grim reality, the Jets have 4 1st-2nd year players who will play prominent roles on this offensive team. Cutting a play short or asking the DL to go easy, would be a detriment to the development of the players. Whether they play well or look bad, it serves no purpose for their development. 

Why ?  It’s like my opinion man    
 

he had cushy pockets at BYU   He had what, 2 surgeries?   
 

so how is he going to hold up against an NFL pass rush?

Like I said I hope I’m wrong but it’s not trending that way. 

[defensedoesntgetyoulaid]

IMO the rookie season, good or bad, doesn't tell the whole story. Plenty of QBs look good year 1 and have high hopes but they never end up going anywhere or taking that next step.

Wasn't Darnold's rookie year pretty good? I don't know his stats but I know he was being talked about as a kid who would continue improving and end up being potentially great.

Really it's all from the eye test, not the stats. I think people will see by the end of the year whether Wilson has the it factor, regardless of where he finishes in TD, INTS and passer rating. If his stats are bad people will be out in force saying he's a bust, but that stuff doesn't always tell the full story.

[Action Zachtion]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Before the draft my feeling based on his college experience was that Wilson should sit a year. 
 

I hope I’m wrong obviously but he needs to start showing that he can get rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds consistently or it’s going to be rough sledding. 
 

I don’t agree with the jets letting the play go on after Lawson taps Wilson on the shoulder. 
 

Knowing when a play is dead and how to deal with that is crucial. 
 

 

Practice does not equal game situations.  

I'd guess they want him to get used to staying in the pocket.  No point to wasting reps if he can't leave the pocket when pressure comes.  

[Matt39]

28 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's practice.  I know you understand that.  Unless you think Coach Saleh was lying, which I don't as he's seemed to be a straight shooter so far...

He's stated in no uncertain terms that ZW is trying things to see how far he can push it.  That screams to me, NOT taking check down, not throwing the ball away.  Waiting for the play develop and taking a sack if need be.

Moreover, up until yesterday they were just installing the offense.  Every day he was being bombarded with new plays, new reads and new understanding.

To think he has 200% more time left than he's had already I think it's a bit premature to claim his going to get killed because he won't be ready.

We’ll see. Get the feeling the staff has been a bit blindsided here with how behind he seems to be. A QB at 2 will make some mistakes in practice obviously but he should know how to get the ball out on time consistently.

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We’ll see. Get the feeling the staff has been a bit blindsided here with how behind he seems to be. A QB at 2 will make some mistakes in practice obviously but he should know how to get the ball out on time consistently.

And why do you get that feeling?

All I've heard is how impressed they are with him.  

[Matt39]

17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

And why do you get that feeling?

All I've heard is how impressed they are with him.  

The sacks/not getting rid of the ball/not seeing things

[Rangers9]

JD said after trading him that he liked Darnold and would have kept him if he couldn't have drafted Wilson. So despite Sam's experience (and that should not be discounted---he went through his training period, had a good number of starts etc.) Jets management obviously thinks Wilson will be the better player. Lets hope they are correct on this because we don't want to go through another 3 year training period with only fair results and losses.