Deeper than usual dive into Zachs struggles.

[Jet_Engine1]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/12/15/22836791/zach-wilson-new-york-jets-struggles

 

 

[freestater]

Quote

If Wilson is officially bad, why aren’t Lawrence and Fields? Because their film is just remarkably better. We can find examples of both going through their progressions with better pacing, and delivering late in their progressions with better accuracy.

Gee. Its almost as if it did matter that he was playing against Eastern Wyoming Culinary Institute and the like, and not versus elite, power 5 opponents. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, freestater said:

Gee. Its almost as if it did matter that he was playing against Eastern Wyoming Culinary Institute and the like, and not versus elite, power 5 opponents. 

There can only be one worst-rated QB in the NFL. That is Zack Wilson. That's the reason people are more pessimistic about Zach than any of the others.

[Beaver]

28 minutes ago, freestater said:

Gee. Its almost as if it did matter that he was playing against Eastern Wyoming Culinary Institute and the like, and not versus elite, power 5 opponents. 

There have been plenty of smaller school QBs who have been good in the NFL.  

[TheClashFan]

Hmm. That article seems familiar!

 

[DetroitRed]

Zach may never be good, but I don’t put any weight into what this guys says…….

 

 

Josh Allen’s sheet here only re-affirms what I already believed: you’re drafting a player solely on a potential, no matter where you take Allen. Allen makes some jaw-dropping throws, and certainly has some generational talent. But the risks he takes when asked to process/decide beyond his first read or under pressure are absurd, and he cannot be trusted on an NFL field with his sporadic ball placement.

On top of his poor decision making as a passer, Allen scrambled on nearly 1 out of every 10 dropbacks and took a sack on 1 out of every 13. He simply is not yet an NFL quarterback—just a dude with insane contact balance, nice speed, and a cannon attached to his right shoulder. Allen very well can become an NFL quarterback, but a team investing in Allen faces the two steepest challenges a young QB can face: improving decision-making (especially under pressure) and improving accuracy.

[freestater]

12 minutes ago, Beaver said:

There have been plenty of smaller school QBs who have been good in the NFL.  

Did all those guys lose to Coastal Carolina too?

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, freestater said:

If Wilson is officially bad, why aren’t Lawrence and Fields? Because their film is just remarkably better. We can find examples of both going through their progressions with better pacing, and delivering late in their progressions with better accuracy.

 

The real disappointment here is that THIS really needed to be as much a safe pick as it did a potential/upside pick.  Coming off a failed QB experiment with Darnold who some (certainly not all) felt was the top QB in the 2018 class the one thing the Jets couldn't do was whiff on a Top 5 QB again.  Especially with 4 or 5 Draft worthy QBs in Round 1, when you're picking at #2 you HAVE to be sure the floor is very high.

If by the early part of next year Zach doesn't look as good as Jones, Fields or even Lance then it will turn out to have been a devastating Draft for this franchise.  It won't be anything that a great AVT, Elijah Moore or Michael Carter can save!

[Beaver]

44 minutes ago, freestater said:

Did all those guys lose to Coastal Carolina too?

I'm not arguing that Zach Wilson does not suck.  He does, but where he went to college is not why.

 

Steve McNair final season at Alcorn State.  

Date	Opponent	Site	Result	Attendance
September 3	at Grambling State	Eddie Robinson Stadium Grambling, LA	L 56–62
September 10	at Chattanooga*	Chamberlain Field Chattanooga, TN	W 54–28
September 17	Alabama State	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 39–7
September 24	at Sam Houston State*	Bowers Stadium Huntsville, TX	L 23–48	16,148
October 8	Texas Southern	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 28–21
October 15	at Prairie View A&M	Blackshear Field Prairie View, TX	W 69–14
October 22	Southern	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 41–37
October 29	at Samford*	Seibert Stadium Homewood, AL	T 45–45
November 5	at Mississippi Valley State	Magnolia Stadium Itta Bena, MS	W 49–24
November 12	Troy State	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 47–44
November 19	Jackson State	Mississippi Veterans Memorial Stadium Jackson,MS	W 52–34	62,500
November 26	at Youngstown State*	Stambaugh Stadium Youngstown OH (NCAA Division I-AA Playoffs First Round)	L 20–63	16,455

[munchmemory]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

Gee. Its almost as if it did matter that he was playing against Eastern Wyoming Culinary Institute and the like, and not versus elite, power 5 opponents. 

Hey, The Golden Whisks were pretty competitive.   Plus, their post game mis en place is unrivaled. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Or, it is just as Wilson says, he is thinking too much and not just playing. This is a trap cerebral QBs, who want to understand and know everything, fall into. It is not a problem for QBs who earned their beans with athleticism and quick reactions. This was exactly Pennington's problem initially, and he had the benefit of 1+ seasons as a backup to an experienced Vinny T. Pennington straightened out quickly because he executed Herm's instructions that it was impossible to know everything and he had to trust his practicing, study, teammates and coaching and simply react and throw on instinct because instinct is the culmination of practice and trust. Of course Pennington had more skilled teammates so it was a little easier.

 

The bottom line is that Zach Wilson's story has yet to be written. So, people need to stop pretending that they know what is on the last page. 

[Green Ghost]

Zach Wilson parlayed the combination of a Covid year, a truncated season against weak competition along with a bad pro team with an unproven GM that desperately needed to find a QB after they blew their chance at picking the one they really wanted into $30 million.

Good for him, bad for the Jets. 

[Green Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Or, it is just as Wilson says, he is thinking too much and not just playing. This is a trap cerebral QBs, who want to understand and know everything, fall into. It is not a problem for QBs who earned their beans with athleticism and quick reactions. This was exactly Pennington's problem initially, and he had the benefit of 1+ seasons as a backup to an experienced Vinny T. Pennington straightened out quickly because he executed Herm's instructions that it was impossible to know everything and he had to trust his practicing, study, teammates and coaching and simply react and throw on instinct because instinct is the culmination of practice and trust. Of course Pennington had more skilled teammates so it was a little easier.

 

The bottom line is that Zach Wilson's story has yet to be written. So, people need to stop pretending that they know what is on the last page. 

So now the narrative is changing from Zach Wilson looks lost out there to he is too cerebral to play competently within an NFL offense, huh?

Interesting.

 

[DetroitRed]

21 minutes ago, Beaver said:

I'm not arguing that Zach Wilson does not suck.  He does, but where he went to college is not why.

 

Steve McNair final season at Alcorn State.  

Date	Opponent	Site	Result	Attendance
September 3	at Grambling State	Eddie Robinson Stadium Grambling, LA	L 56–62
September 10	at Chattanooga*	Chamberlain Field Chattanooga, TN	W 54–28
September 17	Alabama State	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 39–7
September 24	at Sam Houston State*	Bowers Stadium Huntsville, TX	L 23–48	16,148
October 8	Texas Southern	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 28–21
October 15	at Prairie View A&M	Blackshear Field Prairie View, TX	W 69–14
October 22	Southern	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 41–37
October 29	at Samford*	Seibert Stadium Homewood, AL	T 45–45
November 5	at Mississippi Valley State	Magnolia Stadium Itta Bena, MS	W 49–24
November 12	Troy State	Jack Spinks Stadium Lorman, MS	W 47–44
November 19	Jackson State	Mississippi Veterans Memorial Stadium Jackson,MS	W 52–34	62,500
November 26	at Youngstown State*	Stambaugh Stadium Youngstown OH (NCAA Division I-AA Playoffs First Round)	L 20–63	16,455

People just repeat stuff they hear on Esp woke

[Sonny Werblin]

41 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

So now the narrative is changing from Zach Wilson looks lost out there to he is too cerebral to play competently within an NFL offense, huh?

Interesting.

 

I think there is less a narrative change to me simply expressing my opinion. You are free to have your own.

[Jet Nut]

Thanks, this clears up the fog that was around this same article the last time it was used to start a thread

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

There can only be one worst-rated QB in the NFL. That is Zack Wilson. That's the reason people are more pessimistic about Zach than any of the others.

Not good, but not last without ESPNs voodoo QBR

29) Trevor Lawrence, Jacksonville Jaguars ⇓2

Season: 13 GP | 210.4 YPG (26th) | 58.2% (29th) | 5.2 avg CAY (T-22nd) | 1.9 TD% (32nd) | 3.0 INT% (24th) | 243 rush yards (11th) | 2 rush TDs (T-10th)

Trevor Lawrence slides a couple of places in the QB Power Rankings as his first-year struggles continue to concern me. He’s now gone five of the last six games without a touchdown pass. And it’s not as if he’s running for his life every Sunday. In actuality, Lawrence was given ample time to operate against the Titans. Yet, he still threw 3 of his 4 interceptions when given 2.5 or more seconds to throw.

30) Zach Wilson, New York Jets

Season: 9 GP | 193.4 YPG (28th) | 56.1% (31st) | 6.3 avg CAY (T-8th) | 2.1 TD% (31st) | 3.9 INT% (30th) | 58 rush yards (26th) | 2 rush TDs (T-10th)

Zach Wilson’s rookie season continues to be a massive letdown. There are glimpses here and there. But for the most part, Wilson is struggling to do the things that came easy to him in college. He lacks trust in those around him and confidence in himself. And his moxie is what made him so appealing throughout the draft process.

31) Justin Fields, Chicago Bears

Season: 11 GP | 144.1 YPG (31st) | 57.6% (30th) | 7.2 avg CAY (1st) | 2.6 TD% (29th) | 4.3 INT% (31st) | 385 rush yards (4th) | 2 rush TDs (T-10th)

Between special teams and defense, Justin Fields and the Bears offense received adequate support to take down the NFC North’s top dog. Unfortunately, 3 turnovers from the first-year quarterback doomed the unit from keeping pace with the QB Power Rankings’ top passer.

32) Mike Glennon, New York Giants

Season: 3 GP | 191.3 YPG (30th) | 53.3% (32nd) | 4.5 avg CAY (29th) | 2.9 TD% (T-26th) | 3.8 INT% (T-28th) | 9 rush yards (32nd) | 0 rush TDs (T-27th)

Unfortunately for Mike Glennon, the Giants threw him under center for consecutive road games against tough defensive units. During that time, he’s been sacked 5 times, took some shots, and turned the ball over 4 times. No wonder he’s completing half his throws for fewer than 200 yards passing per game.

[varjet]

The Jax game is the Jets’/Zach Wilson’s 2021 Super Bowl.  That game will show us what JD has accomplished in two full off-seasons.  

The Jaguars will be motivated.  I actually think the Jets are going to lose that game.  

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, Beaver said:

There have been plenty of smaller school QBs who have been good in the NFL.  

Couple  that jump out are  Josh Allen and Ben Rothlisberger, and to a lesser extent (height) Justin Herbert. And difference compared to Wilson is they're  huge guys. 2 smaller guys; Philip Rivers and Drew Brees are both guys you would think are more cerebral than Wilson. Problem with an off the beaten path QB is he has to fall into one of those camps, or be great out of the box like Herbert. Wilson is so far not any of those things. 

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

People just repeat stuff they hear on Esp woke

Steve McNair was built like a fullback, so that doesn't really apply. 

[Green Ghost]

24 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I think there is less a narrative change to me simply expressing my opinion. You are free to have your own.

It’s original, I’ll give you credit for.that. ?

[Saul Goodman]

Posting stats that show other rookie QB’s performing poorly proves that Zach Wilson is actually good. 

[JTJet]

2 hours ago, freestater said:

Did all those guys lose to Coastal Carolina too?

While he is deserving of criticism, that isn't the game to point to. 

A Coastal Carolina has been great

B They volunteered to play that game across country on a short week, and they lost by basically half a yard. 

Maybe point to something else. 

[Snook]

2 hours ago, freestater said:

Did all those guys lose to Coastal Carolina too?

You’re going to point out the only loss he had that year? He beat Tennessee and USC the year before. Does any of that make a difference now?

[DetroitRed]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Steve McNair was built like a fullback, so that doesn't really apply. 

You think Mcnair is the only example?

[Bugg]

29 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

You think Mcnair is the only example?

No; read the post before. But if you're gonna raise Mcnair, he was a much bigger guy. 

[DetroitRed]

11 minutes ago, Bugg said:

No; read the post before. But if you're gonna raise Mcnair, he was a much bigger guy. 

I never brought up McNair.  You responded to me

[jetswinbaby!]

Most young QB's fail because they can't get good at the things they have never been good at...

Wilson is failing because he can't get good at things he's always been good at...

Only our Jets...

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

If by the early part of next year Zach doesn't look as good as Jones, Fields or even Lance then it will turn out to have been a devastating Draft for this franchise.  It won't be anything that a great AVT, Elijah Moore or Michael Carter can save!

Poppycock.

[k-met57]

i am so tired of this sh*t. what did people want the jets to do? i was for keeping Darnold....but beyond that...?

Fields looks bad (you can make an argument, but Bears fans are asking the same questions we are), Lance cant get on the field, and Mac Jones was never ever ever going to get drafted in the top 2. Not to mention that next years draft eligible QB's looking questionable. Oh i forgot...the jets should have lost out to draft the star that is Trevor Lawrence.

[Bugg]

15 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i am so tired of this sh*t. what did people want the jets to do? i was for keeping Darnold....but beyond that...?

Fields looks bad (you can make an argument, but Bears fans are asking the same questions we are), Lance cant get on the field, and Mac Jones was never ever ever going to get drafted in the top 2. Not to mention that next years draft eligible QB's looking questionable. Oh i forgot...the jets should have lost out to draft the star that is Trevor Lawrence.

The reasons for not drafting a productive and successful QB at #2 is....? He was too successful at Bama? Too good a supporting cast? Did it against actual SEC soon to be  NFL talent? Instead let's reach for a tiny guy with poor mechanics and playing against future garbage ment and stockbrokers? Huge example of groupthink among scouts, buying into a story,a  find, isntead of just buying the sensible chalk pick. 

[k-met57]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

The reasons for not drafting a productive and successful QB at #2 is....? He was too successful at Bama? Too good a supporting cast? Did it against actual SEC soon to be  NFL talent? Instead let's reach for a tiny guy with poor mechanics and playing against future garbage ment and stockbrokers? Huge example of groupthink among scouts, buying into a story,a  find, isntead of just buying the sensible chalk pick. 

This isn’t aging well…

I guess i have to explain how the NFL works. When you draft second, you draft for potential…you dont draft guys who are considered “safe” picks, that will likely end up being average to above average. Was enough for me to see Jones miss long throws on both his pro days to know he wasn’t being drafted top 10. 

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Poppycock.

lol

I disagree, but...

 

 

 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

lol

I disagree, but...

 

 

 

Fiddlesticks!

[playtowinthegame]

8 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Posting stats that show other rookie QB’s performing poorly proves that Zach Wilson is actually good. 

And Josh Allen and Peyton Manning stunk in their rookie season. That also makes me feel better about Zach Wilson.