MIKE WHITE

[PS17]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

Damn, he forgot Mims!

Mims is rather forgettable.

[#27TheDominator]

46 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm not sure I'm following you.

All I'm saying is the talent level on the Jets right now is potentially elite.  Who's neutering anyone?  The best window the Jets are going to have win a championship is over the next 2-3 years.  They won't be able to maintain this level forever.

I didn't realize that was controversial.  I think most will agree.  

Now, If think JD can duplicate this type of talent without the need to top five drafts picks for many years - multiple first and second rounders in back to back years - I think that's great.  I like JD but I think that's a tough ask for anyone.

Instead of having top 5 picks and two first and two seconds...we're going to have bottom 10 picks and one pick a round.  I didn't realize this would bring out the anger level on this though.  

But I surely hope you're right.  I'm with you then. 

You're not following me?  You are fired up about how we are going to replace all this top flight talent?  The top picks you are talking about are not even who is paying dividends.  They whiffed on #2 overall and #11 overall.  They traded up for Johnson.  He doesn't play much.  AVT looked great.  He's been out since week 7.  Same for Breece Hall.  How will we replace all this talent?  How about we already have!  Sauce and Wilson look great.  They are also pretty far from at their peak.

I am angry because it is scared GMing.  I am not scared of the future.  I look forward every year to the opportunity to make the team better.  I do not cower at the idea that some putz will overpay for some player we have with talent.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

My problem isn't that it was catchable - it was.

And as such, the WR is primarily responsible for catching it.

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

My problem is around here that we hear it was a perfect throw - it wasn't.

Correct, it was not "perfect".  

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

It wasn't all Berrios.

Correct.  It was Berrios, the Defender and White.

I would if forced say it was about 85% Berrios, 10% the Defender and 5% White.

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

 This is five yards away - not 20.  20 yards away he has a chance to adjust and it's more reasonable the throw be off.  5 yards he has no reaction time and the ball should have been better placed.  That's all.

When you have the ball not just in both hands, but deep in your gut, with the game on the line, you should catch it as an NFL WR.

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

It shouldn't be a controversial view when it's the reality as to what happened.  

It's only controversial because you very clearly are using a different set of criteria to evaluate White than you did to evaluate Wilson, despite your claims to the contrary.

The fact that the throw was slightly more behind that perfection is in no way controversial.

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

But you're not allowed to question and Great and Powerful Mike White.  Mike White is beyond reproach.

Of course you are. 

Several of us have repeatedly pointed out he did not play a terribly great game vs. the Vikings, and needs to do better going forward.  Including both myself and @T0mShane to name two.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

You're not following me?  You are fired up about how we are going to replace all this top flight talent?  The top picks you are talking about are not even who is paying dividends.  They whiffed on #2 overall and #11 overall.  They traded up for Johnson.  He doesn't play much.  AVT looked great.  He's been out since week 7.  Same for Breece Hall.  How will we replace all this talent?  How about we already have!  Sauce and Wilson look great.  They are also pretty far from at their peak.

I am angry because it is scared GMing.  I am not scared of the future.  I look forward every year to the opportunity to make the team better.  I do not cower at the idea that some putz will overpay for some player we have with talent.

Fair enough.  

for the record, I'm not suggesting not paying guys.  I'm all for it, you have to pay your good players.  
I guess where we differ is I think it's going to be hard to pay $30mm to Sauce, G. Wilson and QW - and keep a roster without some holes in it.

I agree, you have to pay them and we should.  Def. don't GM scared. - I'm not suggesting that at all.

My concerns are more around the rest of the roster after you've paid them - IMO it will be challenging.  But I get what you're saying - you're more confident than I am for sure.   But I do hear ya and get where you're coming from.

[#27TheDominator]

38 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree, it shouldn't necessarily be an indictment of White, never said it was.  if he plays well and they still lose - it's surely not on him..  Not alone anyway.   I didn't put the MN. loss on Mike White - it was a total team loss - a lot of blame to go around... But the Jets overall should be expecting to win this game.  Not sure why they wouldn't. d.  

Did I expect then to win - no, but I did like their chances.  I also think before the Jets played them Buffalo seemed to be a better team - they seem very beatable right now - not the same team from last year.  Still very good and they are home - so tougher task for sure.

People are putting words in my mouth - never said Mike White has to be Joe Montana, never said it would be Mike White's fault if they lose, never said Zach Wilson should be playing...

All I've said over and over again..

The Jets are a very talented team, Mike White is an upgrade over Zach Wilson, Mike White should be starting the rest of the year - but I had the gall to think the last pass of the game wasn't a good throw and it seems, because I like Zach Wilson - somehow I hate Mike White.  Which isn't at all true.  I think Mike White has been very good, Mike White gives this Jets team the best chance to win - Mike White should take this team to playoffs - and if he continues to play well can make some noise in the playoffs.  That is ALL I've said....but it seems somehow I'm a troll for it.

You go and look, anyone that has had ANYTHING negative at all to say about Mike White has been relentlessly attacked....typically by three or four people...The Mike White Police I call them. 

Mike White Police?  Fine.  Where is my badge?  I can't understand why he didn't get more consideration this offseason.  I can't understand how Flacco ended up ahead of him.  I can't understand much of the negativity about him.  

I'm not calling you a troll.  You actually discuss sh*t.  You don't pop off and just try to get people riled up.  Nobody thinks the last pass of the game was a good one.  It was a pick and he had little choice.  The one to Berrios?  Sure it was.  Watch the videos from all angles.  He is facing a rush has to drop down.  There is a LB inside that is up and he has to worry about and there is a DT that gets his hand up that could have blocked it, both of which contributed to him putting the pass on the back shoulder.  Was it perfect?  I guess not, but that sure as sh*t is not the throw to complain about.

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Fair enough.  

for the record, I'm not suggesting not paying guys.  I'm all for it, you have to pay your good players.  
I guess where we differ is I think it's going to be hard to pay $30mm to Sauce, G. Wilson and QW - and keep a roster without some holes in it.

I agree, you have to pay them and we should.  Def. don't GM scared. - I'm not suggesting that at all.

My concerns are more around the rest of the roster after you've paid them - IMO it will be challenging.  But I get what you're saying - you're more confident than I am for sure.   But I do hear ya and get where you're coming from.

50-50 that Quinnen Williams is retired before we have to pay Sauce and Garrett Wilson in March of 2027.  It is up the the GM and staff to decide which of the good players are actual difference makers.  Guys like Rankins are good players.  They can look great or sh*tty depending on who is around them.  You are worried about having those multiple picks?  Well, say we get to that point - Garrett Wilson wants money?  The Chiefs got a 1st, 2nd, 2 4ths and a 6th for Tyreek Hill.  The Titans got a 1st and 3rd for AJ Brown.  The Packers a 1st and 2nd for Davante Adams.  These are assets.  You get something back and we haven't even started on the franchise tag.

EDITED to add the Ravens got a first for Hollywood Brown, but they had to give back a 3rd and he kind of sucks.

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Correct.  It was Berrios, the Defender and White.

I would if forced say it was about 85% Berrios, 10% the Defender and 5% White.

So I'm being called a troll over % points?

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Of course you are. 

Several of us have repeatedly pointed out he did not play a terribly great game vs. the Vikings, and needs to do better going forward.  Including both myself and @T0mShane to name two.

I have seen @TomShane be very fair - and I've told him such (even though he believes I'm being cynical.)  And you typically have a nuanced perspective.    

Surely some others too.  With that said, the Mike White police are out in force - it's nasty attack after attack for anything other than full obedience.  

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's only controversial because you very clearly are using a different set of criteria to evaluate White than you did to evaluate Wilson, despite your claims to the contrary.

The fact that the throw was slightly more behind that perfection is in no way controversial

I honestly don't agree.  Go and look, I'll try later and pull up some of my posts (have to get some work done - I had legitimate concerns with ZW - the biggest was him throwing behind WR's - particularly on their back hip.  I pointed that out many, many times.  Those are very tough catches to make - and never really put that on the receivers (not past the first few weeks of his rookie year anyway)

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Surely some others too.  With that said, the Mike White police are out in force - it's nasty attack after attack for anything other than full obedience.  

Dude.  For 3 months, you accused anyone who didn't appreciate Zach Wilson struggling to pass for 100 yards as having "psychosis".

Stoppppp with this.  Your hyper-sensitivity is showing.  

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So I'm being called a troll over % points?

I wouldn't call you a troll.  Biased?  Absolutely.  But not a troll IMO.

I've said it before, I'm glad you're a part of our community, even if you drive me nuts some days.

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I have seen @TomShane be very fair - and I've told him such (even though he believes I'm being cynical.)  And you typically have a nuanced perspective.

I try very hard to be objective Monday thru Saturday.  Sunday is for fanaticism and hope and love and the rest.

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Surely some others too.  With that said, the Mike White police are out in force - it's nasty attack after attack for anything other than full obedience.

Something many folks said in re: responses from Zach Wilson's more ardent supports whilst he was playing.

Sorta is what it is, some folks reject criticism or objective analysis when it's "their guy" being analyzed.

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I honestly don't agree.

It's not a point I wish to argue now.  

But I understand that it is an impression many folks have of you, and I personally think there is some truth to it. I honestly don't think you're evaluating the two players on a truly equal playing field.

If you think it's an unfair criticism of you, just be aware that feeling exists in the community, and be cognizant of it when you craft your evaluations now.  Ask yourself "am I looking at this the same way I did for Wilson"?  If you think you are, great.

[K_O_Brien]

11 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Tough to just focus on those 4 on a day when 57 passes were thrown but especially when hypothetically, a last second effort w/ no times out wouldnt have been necessary if Berrios holds on the to ball that he was literally cradling.  That said, I think this is the perfect example of why you need to commit to Mike White.  Has he ever been in that position before in the NFL?  Situational awareness is developed, IMO and to be fair and critical of his play, that needs work.  Even on 3rd downs, a little to fast to get to check downs, but I think these things come w/ experience and now having those situations on tape, which he's never had before.  I also think Lil Mikey does need to tweak his RZ play calling to better fit Mike White's strengths. 

 

Maybe it is tough to focus on 4 throws out of 57, but those type of situations - last minute, four-down territory, ball inside the red zone - are exactly the type that will decide a lot of close play-off games. Our defense was good enough to give us the ball back and atone for the Berrios drop, and the O couldn't get it done. On another day, we might only get one or two chances, we got four, we couldn't take them. 

It's a tough ask for White to step up in those situations, when he doesn't have the experience/situational awareness, etc. as you say, but that's essentially what we are asking him to do. Win the games he supposed to for now, and in a month's time, to make a couple of great throws late on to win the game and knock off a Mahomes/Allen/Burrow on the road in the play-offs. Tough ask, but that has to be the expectation. Now he won't be alone, LeFleur and co will need to step it up as well. 

 

[FidelioJet]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Mike White Police?  Fine.  Where is my badge?  I can't understand why he didn't get more consideration this offseason.  I can't understand how Flacco ended up ahead of him.  I can't understand much of the negativity about him.  

I'm not calling you a troll.  You actually discuss sh*t.  You don't pop off and just try to get people riled up.  Nobody thinks the last pass of the game was a good one.  It was a pick and he had little choice.  The one to Berrios?  Sure it was.  Watch the videos from all angles.  He is facing a rush has to drop down.  There is a LB inside that is up and he has to worry about and there is a DT that gets his hand up that could have blocked it, both of which contributed to him putting the pass on the back shoulder.  Was it perfect?  I guess not, but that sure as sh*t is not the throw to complain about.

Okay, I'm trying to get past the throw to Berrios.  It just keeps coming up.  I keep taking the bait.  I won't anymore.   I'm done discussing it.  I just thought it was a much tougher catch than most are saying.  But I'll leave it there.

There isn't a lot of negativity about Mike White....Honestly, not coming from me.  Feel free to go back and look at my posts since he took over.  It's not all rose pedals but it's actually very positive.  

The question of how Flacco ended up ahead of him is a really good one.  I would really hate to believe the cynical approach - that they were afraid of him looking too good.  That would really bother me if the front office would ever take that approach.

My guess.

Look at Huff being inactive to start the seasons

Look at Bam Knight being inactive until the last few weeks

Look at the defense heavy blitzing early in the season (didn't trust the front 4 to get there)

These are clear and obvious misses...Teams just make mistakes on talent evaluation some times.  Jets figured them out and acted accordingly.  

 

[FidelioJet]

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

50-50 that Quinnen Williams is retired before we have to pay Sauce and Garrett Wilson in March of 2027

I can't imagine those guys don't hold out long before 2027.  They're going to want to get paid.   They're both high picks so they are making real money now - but If Garret Wilson has 3 1,000 plus yard years - no way he's not looking for $30mm.

Just my opinion...

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

This. This is your captain.

Fidelio has been a fine and honorable Captain. One of history’s best.

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

What?

I don't think he needs to be Montana.  I think he's better than Zach Wilson - and the record of the New York Jets should be better under Mike White than Zach Wilson.  Is that unreasonable?  The superior QB (being compared to Chad, Fitz and Super Bowl MVP Nick Foles)

With this defense and this talent - a team that went 5-2 with the worst QB in the NFL - what should we expect from Mike White?  Honest question.

I do keep hearing the Jets would have SURELY won both Pats games with Mike White - and the Jets would be 9-3 if Mike White started  by week 4.

I think it's reasonable to come to that conclusion - but then why should those expectations diminish now?  I mean this honestly...

Before I answer this, the line on Bills-Jets this weekend in 10 points. Would it be higher or lower if Zach Wilson was starting?

[greenwichjetfan]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Fidelio has been a fine and honorable Captain. One of history’s best.

Just like Zach was a fine and honorable captain of BY....oh wait. 

[FidelioJet]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Before I answer this, the line on Bills-Jets this weekend in 10 points. Would it be higher or lower if Zach Wilson was starting?

This is a really good question. 

I imagine it would have depended on how ZW looked against MN. and Chicago.  If it's just after the NE 3 pointer - clearly higher.  

With that said, I love the Jets +10 - But I will almost never bet a Jet game - no point in it.

 

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

No, there’s literally no difference. It’s the internet. Making a spectacle if yourself and signaling that any idiot can troll you into a meltdown with one post is just a bad look. There’s no badge of honor or manly code here… you either look like a clown or you don’t. It’s binary.

 

Idk what you're trying to do here. What you think or say about me carries about this much weight ? 

It's very simple: if you're going to slander and troll someone on the internet for no apparent reason, put your name on it and be prepared to act the same way in real life. Most of us are local and surely tailgate the home games; just be accountable and consistent for what you say and how you act whether its on the internet or in real life. That's my perspective and your lecturing won't change it, so good day 

[#27TheDominator]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Fidelio has been a fine and honorable Captain. One of history’s best.

Before I answer this, the line on Bills-Jets this weekend in 10 points. Would it be higher or lower if Zach Wilson was starting?

Where is your @Fidelio F'n Jet t-shirt? 

I am continuing to put my money where my mouth is.  Facing the fantasy playoffs I am starting Mike White and my opponent Josh Allen.  So far he has outscored Mahomes and Carr head-to-head and both weeks he outscored my alternatives (Brady and Dak).  

[PS17]

This hurts my soul

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is a really good question. 

I imagine it would have depended on how ZW looked against MN. and Chicago.  If it's just after the NE 3 pointer - clearly higher.  

With that said, I love the Jets +10 - But I will almost never bet a Jet game - no point in it.

 

I don't think the line would be much different. The Bills were -10.5 in our house week 9 (so figure it would've been-13.5 in BUF). That was when they were 6-1 and dominating the league. We beat them outright, they lost a close one to MIN, and their only convincing win since was last week against the Pats, which stayed closer than it should've been for 3 quarters. 

Since then we had the brutal NE loss, handedly beat a bad Chicago team, and lost a very close match to MIN. My guess is Vegas's line for this game is a reflection how they felt right after we beat them in week 9... if the game was at our house, we're probably +7. Being in BUF, its +10. 

[#27TheDominator]

56 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I can't imagine those guys don't hold out long before 2027.  They're going to want to get paid.   They're both high picks so they are making real money now - but If Garret Wilson has 3 1,000 plus yard years - no way he's not looking for $30mm.

Just my opinion...

Cross that bridge when we get to it.  I am not too old to remember when we were going to be able to cut Corey Davis last off-season because Mims was set to take over, or when Garrett Wilson was a luxury because Elijah Moore was emerging as a real threat at WR.  Garrett Wilson has not hit 800 yards yet and 1,000 yards is not what it used to be with the extra game.  He has quite a lot to prove before he holds out for $30M.  Excuse me if I am not making decisions this offseason based upon his demands after three seasons doing something he has not done once yet.  He is on a pace for 1,053 for a 16 game season.  He already has 94 targets.  He is a nice player and I am excited with the possibilities, but to quote that famous American philosopher Derrick Coleman, Whoop-de-damn-doo. 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't think the line would be much different. The Bills were -10.5 in our house week 9 (so figure it would've been-13.5 in BUF). That was when they were 6-1 and dominating the league. We beat them outright, they lost a close one to MIN, and their only convincing win since was last week against the Pats, which stayed closer than it should've been for 3 quarters. 

Since then we had the brutal NE loss, handedly beat a bad Chicago team, and lost a very close match to MIN. My guess is Vegas's line for this game is a reflection how they felt right after we beat them in week 9... if the game was at our house, we're probably +7. Being in BUF, its +10. 

I thought home field was 3 points?  That would mean +10 in their house should be +4 in ours, no?  I don't see any way on God's green earth Vegas would put us that close.

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Maybe it is tough to focus on 4 throws out of 57, but those type of situations - last minute, four-down territory, ball inside the red zone - are exactly the type that will decide a lot of close play-off games. Our defense was good enough to give us the ball back and atone for the Berrios drop, and the O couldn't get it done. On another day, we might only get one or two chances, we got four, we couldn't take them. 

It's a tough ask for White to step up in those situations, when he doesn't have the experience/situational awareness, etc. as you say, but that's essentially what we are asking him to do. Win the games he supposed to for now, and in a month's time, to make a couple of great throws late on to win the game and knock off a Mahomes/Allen/Burrow on the road in the play-offs. Tough ask, but that has to be the expectation. Now he won't be alone, LeFleur and co will need to step it up as well. 

 

All true, definitely a 4th quarter league (luckily the Jets have been of the best 4th quarter teams) and those are situations that the best teams/QB's take advantage of for sure.  Hell, look at Brady the other night, terrible for 3 1/2 quarters till they need it.  I guess I would be more critical of that series w/ out knowing the fact that he did bring them back to victory and Berrios dropped it and made ridiculously clutch plays on that drive namely, 31 yards on 4th and 10 to Davis.   Maybe that's why its easier for me to accept that last series, as he was asked to do it twice in less than 2 minutes of play.

And you're right, they're asking him to be those things right now but I think the staff and fans needs to be understanding of the reality of the situation, he's inexperienced and just like there was/is with Zach Wilson, there has to be some grace in the analysis. 

 

 

[Stark]

20 hours ago, JiFields said:

He's not a keyboard warrior but he'll fight anyone, any time, any place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

holy sh!t... it all makes sense now,.. its the real Zachenberg

[K_O_Brien]

10 minutes ago, JiFields said:

And you're right, they're asking him to be those things right now but I think the staff and fans needs to be understanding of the reality of the situation, he's inexperienced and just like there was/is with Zach Wilson, there has to be some grace in the analysis. 

I think most of us will be understanding. Even if we miss the play-offs at 10-7 or 9-8, we would have enjoyed the season, the wins and just being relevant again. But internally, the expectation levels within the organisation would be different. 

White will get these 7 games, and if he delivers big in key moments, then happy days. If he doesn't, Douglas will likely recognise the roster as still being a QB away, and bring in someone else that can be the difference-maker. They will tolerate a certain level of 'growing pains in the job' but not to the point where it hinders the rest of the team. 

The rope for White is seven games, which may seem harsh. But the rope for Wilson was a year and a half, which for the number 2 pick in the draft was harsher again. But it's produce or we move on. 

 

[bonkertons]

3 hours ago, doitny said:

agreed. our window is now till 2024-25 . we wont be able to sign everyone like AVT, Sause, Hall, QW, GW. were probably looking at at minimum over 100 mil for those 5 players.

cant play games at QB. if White isnt the guy this year we need to bring in someone for 2023. cant blow these years on a chance Zach is the guy.

Yeah that’s a hard disagree from me. This is a team that wasn’t even expecting to be good until next year. No way was the expectation “we’ll have a 2 year window”.  Not to say we won’t probably lose a key contributor here and there, but enough to close the window?  I just don’t see it. 
 

Losing guys like Lawson, Tomlinson, Brown, eventually Davis, Zach(if…obviously), Mosley, etc. I don’t see this team struggling to keep its core together, and the core is extremely young. 
 

2-3 year window my arse. 

[Integrity28]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

Idk what you're trying to do here. What you think or say about me carries about this much weight ? 

It's very simple: if you're going to slander and troll someone on the internet for no apparent reason, put your name on it and be prepared to act the same way in real life. Most of us are local and surely tailgate the home games; just be accountable and consistent for what you say and how you act whether its on the internet or in real life. That's my perspective and your lecturing won't change it, so good day 

Yea, you’ve made that clear across the 150 posts threatening me because I made an obviously silly joke.

[football guy]

12 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Yea, you’ve made that clear across the 150 posts threatening me because I made an obviously silly joke.

"Threatening" lol

[Hal N of Provo]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

And as such, the WR is primarily responsible for catching it.

Correct, it was not "perfect".  

Correct.  It was Berrios, the Defender and White.

I would if forced say it was about 85% Berrios, 10% the Defender and 5% White.

When you have the ball not just in both hands, but deep in your gut, with the game on the line, you should catch it as an NFL WR.

It's only controversial because you very clearly are using a different set of criteria to evaluate White than you did to evaluate Wilson, despite your claims to the contrary.

The fact that the throw was slightly more behind that perfection is in no way controversial.

Of course you are. 

Several of us have repeatedly pointed out he did not play a terribly great game vs. the Vikings, and needs to do better going forward.  Including both myself and @T0mShane to name two.

Speaking of different criteria… If Zach threw that ball I’m 99% sure you’d be blaming the QB at a much higher rate.  
 

I think It’s a fine throw.  It was behind and would have been a TD if it wasn’t.  QB doesn’t need to be perfect and WRs need to make that play most of the time.

Any blame for the game put on White is shared with MLF and I’m not sure how much to spread that around.  The 1st half was crap and seemed familiar.  I think MLF trying to play conservative is a HUGE part of that.  

[freestater]

4 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

There’s no badge of honor or manly code here… you either look like a clown or you don’t. It’s binary

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

A lot of talk on the Berrios drop, but if I'm Mike White or I'm Mike LeFleur, I'm not overly fixating on that one. The throw was decent, it gave the receiver to chance to make a play, he almost came down with it. On another day, he probably does. In terms of looking for ways to improve, I'm starting with the last four throws of the game.

First down, White doesn't see Moore who is open, runs the other way, throws it into the dirt. he doesn't try and force it which is fine. 

Second down, tries to force the ball into Garrett, nearly picked off. Not a bad throw/call, good play by the defender. 

Third down, moves out of the pocket, there is a Jet receiver (?) open on a crossing route, White runs to his right, bad throw to Moore. White actually has room to run for a first down here. 

Fourth down, similar to second, tries to force it into either Davis (or Garrett?), this time the ball is picked. Not a great route tree, or playcall. 

If we're in a similar situation again, can we do better than we did in those set of downs? I love Garrett as much as the next guy, but is he someone we trust to win a contested ball with everything on the line? Do we get Mims involved more, the tight ends? Does White need to use his legs more?

I don't know, but to win a play-off game, we need to do a lot better in the red zone than we did last week. 

 

 

This is such a good post, imo. White is so, so good at the nuts and bolts stuff, but if he (and the Jets) are going to take the next step, he has to show some creativity in these spots. LaFleur can help him by not entirely abandoning the run and avoiding calling plays for Berrios, but White needs to at least present the threat of the run and show some ability to improvise on the move. 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, JiFields said:

All true, definitely a 4th quarter league (luckily the Jets have been of the best 4th quarter teams) and those are situations that the best teams/QB's take advantage of for sure.  Hell, look at Brady the other night, terrible for 3 1/2 quarters till they need it.  I guess I would be more critical of that series w/ out knowing the fact that he did bring them back to victory and Berrios dropped it and made ridiculously clutch plays on that drive namely, 31 yards on 4th and 10 to Davis.   Maybe that's why its easier for me to accept that last series, as he was asked to do it twice in less than 2 minutes of play.

And you're right, they're asking him to be those things right now but I think the staff and fans needs to be understanding of the reality of the situation, he's inexperienced and just like there was/is with Zach Wilson, there has to be some grace in the analysis. 

 

 

+1. So much of what happens in short yardage passing is based on making sight adjustments and not having the trust and experience with who you’re throwing to is a problem. White *could have* thrown it to Mims and Moore in those spots, but those two are unreliable. Maybe that changes with more reps and communication, but that will take a few games to develop. The only guys White can count on are Garrett Wilson and Michael Carter. He gave a lot of chances to Conklin, who ******* sucks, so maybe they get Ruckert into the mix at some point just to see what happens

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, PS17 said:

This hurts my soul

I’m just gonna say it: Berrios threw that game because he loves Zach Wilson and Berrios should face jail time.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Cross that bridge when we get to it.  I am not too old to remember when we were going to be able to cut Corey Davis last off-season because Mims was set to take over, or when Garrett Wilson was a luxury because Elijah Moore was emerging as a real threat at WR.  Garrett Wilson has not hit 800 yards yet and 1,000 yards is not what it used to be with the extra game.  He has quite a lot to prove before he holds out for $30M.  Excuse me if I am not making decisions this offseason based upon his demands after three seasons doing something he has not done once yet.  He is on a pace for 1,053 for a 16 game season.  He already has 94 targets.  He is a nice player and I am excited with the possibilities, but to quote that famous American philosopher Derrick Coleman, Whoop-de-damn-doo. 

That Garrett Wilson is on pace for these numbers with Zach Wilson having started 7 of the games tells me he's playing at an All-Pro level, sir.

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Fine with the general idea, but I will say that I don't think Mike White using his legs is a thing.

Like Brady, they both throw it to backs as a substitute for scrambling. Michael Carter catches are de facto Mike White scrambles. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That Garrett Wilson is on pace for these numbers with Zach Wilson having started 7 of the games tells me he's playing at an All-Pro level, sir.

I forgot who had it, but someone ran the math on Garrett Wilson’s season totals if he never had to suffer through the Zach Wilson Death Cycle, and Wilson would have ended up with 1,700 yards and 10 TDs if they played [QBX] over Zach for seven games.