Why was Berrios even on the field on that play from the 1 yard line.

[jamesr]

8 minutes ago, JiFields said:

They went 5 wide, there were other options on the field.  Yet, Braxton is the one that got open.  lmfao, this is hilarious. 

 

He was the one White threw the ball to ... whether anyone else was open isn't overly clear.

One interesting comment I recall reading was that White "didn't want the game to end with him holding the ball". This said a lot to me about his approach to the game, his role, and his play in general. It tells me he was aware of the "internal clock"... he had held the ball maybe longer than hoped, and time was likely running out to avoid a sack. Whether one was imminent or not, he realised he had to give someone a chance to make a play - rather than waiting for a perfect shot that likely wouldn't ever come up. So he may not have wanted to make that pass specifically, but it was better than making no pass at all.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think there is a difference between the skillset to run an end around which allows a player to get a full head of steam before turning up field or a bubble screen where if it is thrown to you, it means the DB is playing off coverage and you have room to make a move as opposed to an EZ with 9 guys in coverage. 

Right yet, the Jets went 5 wide and the one who got open was Berrios. So?  idk, it's almost like if he catches the ball that he makes 99 out of 100 times we're celebrating his greatness vs. complaining about nonsensical poop. 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, jamesr said:

He was the one White threw the ball to ... whether anyone else was open isn't overly clear.

One interesting comment I recall reading was that White "didn't want the game to end with him holding the ball". This said a lot to me about his approach to the game, his role, and his play in general. It tells me he was aware of the "internal clock"... he had held the ball maybe longer than hoped, and time was likely running out to avoid a sack. Whether one was imminent or not, he realised he had to give someone a chance to make a play - rather than waiting for a perfect shot that likely wouldn't ever come up. So he may not have wanted to make that pass specifically, but it was better than making no pass at all.

Right on but the "not ending w/ the ball in his hands" comment was regarding the INT he threw up for grabs at the end of the game on 4th down, not 4th call to Berrios that he should have caught. 

[#27TheDominator]

Sometimes I get insight and reasonable takes on this board.  I get pointed to sources I would not normally find to learn more about the team, the NFL and why things are done in a particular way.  This is not one of those days. 

You guys are back to killing LaFleur?  Back to one day the Braxton Berrios type of player?  Remember when we were discussing the season and discussing that 6 wins was likely and whether that should mean everyone gets fired?  Again?  Remember at the start of the season when the D was finding its legs and everyone wanted to fire Ulbrich?  They just played what is literally one of the top teams in the league on the road and played them toe to toe.  They made plenty of mistakes and missed plenty of opportunities, but they were right there.  This is literally exactly what we were hoping for - meaningful December football.  Now I read we have no shot at the playoffs?  What are you guys?  Rex in 2009 after Atlanta?  

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

Berries has been one of the Jets most clutch receivers with Zach and yes other teams who have great TE’s or tall receivers with big vertical leaps will go to them in the red zone. But MW was playing in his 2nd game of the season and hasn’t had the time to develop that kind of relationship with a receiver he can count on to go to in clutch situations. GW is the most likely receiver to become that guy, but when Zach was playing it never happened with GW, and with MW it will probably take more than 1 game (after yesterday 2 games), before he is super comfortable throwing to GW in any type of passing situation with the game on the line.

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Forget that we should be able to pickup a yard on the ground with three shots, why was our smallest WR on the field. Where was Davis, Mims, Wilson, even Moore who isn't tall but I would prefer they throw to him over Berrios. Berrios doesn't  catch many contested balls. Where were the TE's? I can't  believe of all the pass catchers we have, we wanted to go to him. Sure any of them could drop it as well but I don't  think they went tonBerrios once in the pass game before that. You saw who MN. Went to when they needed a TD pass in the 4th Qrt, it was Jefferson. We seriously couldn't  draw up a play to go to a different guy? 

 

I was in the car listening and couldn't believe we couldn't get in from the 1. Not sure same play but we never ran the ball.

Im not second guessing, maybe I am, but yesterday was frustrating.

 

 

 

[jamesr]

14 minutes ago, JiFields said:

They went 5 wide, there were other options on the field.  Yet, Braxton is the one that got open.  lmfao, this is hilarious. 

 

I realise this is a second reply to the same comment, but as this is a different topic I'm responding on I thought I'd keep it separate.

I know we were in a mostly-obvious passing situation, but I also wonder - given how things had gone to that point - if 5 WRs split out wide was the best option. I'm sure there are plenty reasons for it, especially being so close to the end zone. But other than Wilson and Davis, the rest of the WR group had hardly had an impact all game.

Wilson and Davis had 25 targets, 13 catches, tonnes of yards. Rest of the WRs had 10 targets, 4 catches, 16 yards. Berrios was the "most productive" of the rest of the WRs (or "least unproductive") with 9 yards on 2 catches / 2 targets prior to this.

Conversely, our RBs had 11 catches off of 12 targets for 66 yards. I know red zone play are different, but having a guy coming out of the backfield may have helped with misdirection / confusing the DBs rather than a more "simple" 5 WR set.

 

 

[jamesr]

5 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Right on but the "not ending w/ the ball in his hands" comment was regarding the INT he threw up for grabs at the end of the game on 4th down, not 4th call to Berrios that he should have caught. 

Thanks for clarifying ... I think I'd largely forgotten we had yet another desperation attempt after that.

[TuscanyTile2]

27 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Yes, in small spaces.   It's almost like you dont even watch or pay any attention to the team ie; not knowing who Max Mitchell was after we drafted him.

Braxton is a perma fixture in Lil Mikey's RZ offense.  He has 2 rushing TD's on the season and he had 2 last year, in the same fashion.  They throw him the ball on screens and give him end arounds w/ in the 10 yard line because of his ability to make people miss in small spaces.  On the play that he dropped, he created separation in phone booth for White to get him the ball and had an extremely rare drop.  

Fwiw, MW praised Berrios for running that route (which wasn't called in the huddle).

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Not in a small space like an EZ. He created no space. In the open field, yes, he is hard to tackle, not in a small space. He created no space really which is why the pass had to be low. There were two defenders right next to him. 

Did he get open?  Yes

Is he as sure handed as any receiver on the team?  Yes

Did he drop a pass behind him that he should and usually does catch?  Yes

Thats football.  Stop second guessing it.  If he caught the pass do you start this thread?  Hell no.  

 

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Did he get open?  Yes

Is he as sure handed as any receiver in the team?  Yes

Did he drop a pass behind him that he should and usually does catch?  Yes

Thats football.  Stop second guessing it.  If he caught the pass do you start this thread?  He’ll no.  

Oh for Gods sake go away. You sited nothing about the point I was making. 

Yeah, he was so open, White had to throw the ball low forcing him to dive for it. Wide open. 

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

For me the saddest part yesterday was when I kept thinking if we only still had Breece Hall playing we would have got in the end zone at least once instead of having to kick 5 field goals . . . and Breece probably would have gotten into the end zone for what would have been our game winning drive yesterday.

[the Claw]

Meh, Berrios is usually pretty sure-handed. He’s had drops before, but so have every single one of the receiving core. Wilson drops passes, Mims drops passes, Davis drops passes, Conklin drops passes, and Moore is still working his way into the game. They all have their reason to not throw to them in this situation.
 

If White throws a better ball in this instance then we’re not likely having this discussion. Better yet, if they can run an effective short yardage run play, we’re not having this discussion. It was a comedy of errors on that play. Too many little things built up over the game for the Jets to overcome. 

 

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I realise this is a second reply to the same comment, but as this is a different topic I'm responding on I thought I'd keep it separate.

I know we were in a mostly-obvious passing situation, but I also wonder - given how things had gone to that point - if 5 WRs split out wide was the best option. I'm sure there are plenty reasons for it, especially being so close to the end zone. But other than Wilson and Davis, the rest of the WR group had hardly had an impact all game.

Wilson and Davis had 25 targets, 13 catches, tonnes of yards. Rest of the WRs had 10 targets, 4 catches, 16 yards. Berrios was the "most productive" of the rest of the WRs (or "least unproductive") with 9 yards on 2 catches / 2 targets prior to this.

Conversely, our RBs had 11 catches off of 12 targets for 66 yards. I know red zone play are different, but having a guy coming out of the backfield may have helped with misdirection / confusing the DBs rather than a more "simple" 5 WR set.

 

 

All fair critique but they put Berrios in motion and the play call was there, he dropped a would be a TD.  They ran it on 1st and 2nd, they also they tried to ISO Wilson on 3rd down and he slipped.  Then, they dialed up the right call on 4th and Berrios dropped it.  I mean, we can dissect this 5 ways till Sunday but the fact of the matter is, if Berrios makes a play he makes 99 out of 100 times, we're not having this conversation.

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Oh for Gods sake go away. You sited nothing about the point I was making. 

Yeah, he was so open, White had to throw the ball low forcing him to dive for it. Wide open. 

[Gastineau Lives]

18 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Sometimes I get insight and reasonable takes on this board.  I get pointed to sources I would not normally find to learn more about the team, the NFL and why things are done in a particular way.  This is not one of those days. 

 

You. Are. Welcome.

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Fwiw, MW praised Berrios for running that route (which wasn't called in the huddle).

Even better...dude saw a spot, got open, just made a costly uncharacteristic mistake.  I'll say it again, Berrios has never dropped a 4th down pass thrown to him, ever.

[#27TheDominator]

I have generally probably second guessed LaFleur while watching the game as much as anybody, but I think he knows what he is doing.  I think he runs tons of end arounds, receiver screens and receiver passes to keep the D honest and to see what they were doing.  I don't know what the exact call was, or if Berrios ran that route on his own or what.  I can say that having Berrios in makes the D wonder about a receiver screen and I will bet that the D will tend to lose him or lay off once that doesn't happen. 

I don't know if that was the plan, but they should be looking at how the D responds to different plays and formations and using them to determine what they are doing at that point of the game.  

[August]

He catches that and no one questions why he’s out there. It is what it is. 

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Oh for Gods sake go away. You sited nothing about the point I was making. 

Yeah, he was so open, White had to throw the ball low forcing him to dive for it. Wide open. 

That close to the goal line with 5 wideouts in the EZ it isn’t that easy to simply get “so open” — it’s quite the norm to rely upon ball placement and sure hands. There are only so many Justin Jeffersons in the league who twitch a shoulder & get 2 yards of separation.

Anyway the called, winning TD play was there to be had.

As you’ve heard said on the podium countless times, they didn’t execute. It happens.

[ScarletKnight89]

That was the play I had the least issue with out of all the red zone opportunities we had yesterday. 

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

In case we needed someone to call for a fair catch.

Braxton Kerley Berrios 

[IndianaJet]

Can't fix stupid

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Braxton Kerley Berrios 

Holy smokes

[Gastineau Lives]

Just now, IndianaJet said:

 fix stupid

FTFY

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Oh for Gods sake go away. You sited nothing about the point I was making. 

Yeah, he was so open, White had to throw the ball low forcing him to dive for it. Wide open. 

My post totally addressed your take.  No agrees with your MMQB filled take where you’re dead wrong.   Berrios was the only open WR.  He should have caught the ball but didn’t.  More than a few of us have said it, Berrios said it.  As have said if he did catch this thread doesn’t exist. 

Of course for some reason known only to you, there’s an attack for me to go away.  Should all the others like jif go away?

He was open, no one else was.  And as usual you’re wrong attacking someone who saw what you can’t grasp.  You go away, learn the game.   Just don’t tell anyone to go away and attack them 

[batman10023]

i would have tried to run it in 3 times honestly.  i guess the jets thought the pass defense was worse.  but we were having struggles getting TD all game.  

[More Cowbell]

47 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

My post totally addressed your take.  No agrees with your MMQB filled take where you’re dead wrong.   Berrios was the only open WR.  He should have caught the ball but didn’t.  More than a few of us have said it, Berrios said it.  As have said if he did catch this thread doesn’t exist. 

Of course for some reason known only to you, there’s an attack for me to go away.  Should all the others like jif go away?

He was open, no one else was.  And as usual you’re wrong attacking someone who saw what you can’t grasp.  You go away, learn the game.   Just don’t tell anyone to go away and attack them 

First off, we don't  know if he was or wasn't  the only one open. There was no wide shot of the EZ that showed all the players.  Secondly it is this stupid if he made the catch this thread doesn't  exist  argument that I find so annoying and you do this same crap all the time. I am talking about a play that happened,  not one that didn't  happen and how reality would be altered had it happened. WTF is the point of arguing something that didn't  happen? 

[bonkertons]

Eh, it happens.  Obviously should have caught it and I'm sure he knows that too, but he's been good for us overall.  I have no idea how much he makes but as a return man and a 4th or 5th WR option he brings a decent amount of value, IMO. 

 

This team is playing meaningful football late in the year for the first time in a LOOOOONG time.  This is a learning experience even for some of the vets on the team like Berrios.  These guys will be alright. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Should've been thrown better. Watched it back. Mike White pulled a Zach and drifted for no reason, throwing side arm. Lead him a smidge more and it's an easier catch.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, JiFields said:

Berrios has been the epitome of clutch and continually comes up big when needed.  The dude has caught every 4th down pass ever thrown to him before yesterday.  He has one costly drop and the whole board has turned on him?   What the actual **** peeps? 

I don't hate Berrios or anything but he definitely didn't get the job done yesterday.

And considering how little he's contributed so far this year, he's overpaid.  

[Barry McCockinner]

[Beerfish]

He is part of the redzone package with his jet sweeps which have been successful a number of times before.  The play was there they just did not execute it.

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

Stop with the excuses and blame game, Berrios has been a sure handed WR.  He needed to make the play

personnel had nothing to do with it

Where's the "Game Observations" thread my friend?

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, JiFields said:

Right yet, the Jets went 5 wide and the one who got open was Berrios. So?  idk, it's almost like if he catches the ball that he makes 99 out of 100 times we're celebrating his greatness vs. complaining about nonsensical poop.