playtowinthegame Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, JetPotato said: Any victory you have in a season after playoff elimination is damaging to the franchise no matter who is in charge. We need a loss, not only for draft position, but also one less reason to keep the current regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 5 hours ago, Maynard13 said: Once we were eliminated, Saleh should have sat the starters (as much as possible) and played the reserves. it serves numerous puproses: it help identify who you want to bring back the following year, it helps give these guys experience and it spares any unnecessary injuries to you star players. Oh and it helps, if possible, to get a better pick in the draft. We already know what these guys can do like JJ, Sauce, Breece, GW, QW, QW, JFM, Conklion, etc etc etc They need to play guys who are on the bubble, call up some practice squad players, deactivate their star players and call it a rainy day. you cant do that. we got eliminated with what 4 games left? so your going to tell GW that he cant break 1,000 yds which he said was very important to him? yeah that will go over well with the locker room. these guys need these games to bump up there stats for contract time. GW needs to get all these games so he can get paid like the WR he thinks he is and not hold a grudge against us because we cost him money by sitting him 4 games a year cause we keep getting eliminated. did you want to do this last year too? you probably did. and you would have cost GW and Sause the ROTY playing only 13 games. nobody does this and would send a terrible message to FAs and draft picks would be telling there agents to tell the Jets not to draft them. plus those guys will never resign here if you do that to them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPitch Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The crappy jets program and culture surely has an effect on fans, no? And their mentality, no? So thats why we have fans that WANT to lose. Not only do they want to lose, but they are willing to lose to hated rivals such as the pats. Thats the REAL test of this sickness. Is nothing sacred?!? You guys think that 49er or Steeler fans want to lose? I doubt it. Do you think Dallas fans want to lose to the Eagles just to move up a spot during sh*tty seasons? Never. Jet fans have no pride and are real dummies. Sorry guys its true. Weve done this losing for draft position thing a million times and things never improve. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, JetPotato said: Any victory you have in a season after playoff elimination is damaging to the franchise no matter who is in charge. We need a loss, not only for draft position, but also one less reason to keep the current regime. I think as a general matter it is better for the core of the team to learn to win-but that assumes that the team has the core positions to be successful. That is basically QB, LT and EDGE. The Jets blew the Becton pick. Yes, they could have picked Wirfs, but it took 3 years for him to move to LT, and who knows if he will be good there. In this draft there are potentially 2 LTs who can walk in and start. That is rare. With AR8 out this season and Zach Wilson determined not to be a QB of any any future, the best thing for the Jets in the near term would be to draft an LT. There does not appear to be an LT in FA that will work. When your team does not have a QB or LT, learning to win does not accomplish anything. They need to get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomebodytoAnybody47 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 9 hours ago, BP said: Off topic a bit, but part of the root cause of the problem. The Steelers invest in their players, the Jets are too cheap and don’t. That’s one reason why the Jets have so many injuries. Somebody compared the Jets training staff to the Steelers and it literally was a joke. The jets have mostly interns, the Steelers have professionals. The Steelers have had a full time sports dietitian on their payroll for 10 years. Dr Kim Schwabenbauer. Remember a few years back fatso Mekhi had to hire his own dietitian? That worked out well. The problems lie way deeper in the franchise than just knowing how to find talent in the draft. The Jets are clueless from literally top to bottom. They may have a state of the art training facility in florham park, but they have interns training players. It’s a ******* joke and they’re in denial they’re doing anything wrong. You realize the Jets have had the same team dietician, on their payroll, for the last 6 years right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 9 minutes ago, varjet said: I think as a general matter it is better for the core of the team to learn to win-but that assumes that the team has the core positions to be successful. That is basically QB, LT and EDGE. The Jets blew the Becton pick. Yes, they could have picked Wirfs, but it took 3 years for him to move to LT, and who knows if he will be good there. In this draft there are potentially 2 LTs who can walk in and start. That is rare. With AR8 out this season and Zach Wilson determined not to be a QB of any any future, the best thing for the Jets in the near term would be to draft an LT. There does not appear to be an LT in FA that will work. When your team does not have a QB or LT, learning to win does not accomplish anything. They need to get them. No team in the history of the NFL has needed a meaningless December victory in a previous season to have any impact on the next season. It's complete nonsense. These are exhibition games now. Each meaningful game is its own animal. You don't suddenly execute in October in a way you wouldn't have because you won a nothing game last January. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pajet Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 32 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said: Ironically from the coach who in the biggest moments played not to lose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 10 hours ago, Beerfish said: No it is utterly stupid in a lost season to win meaningless games that screw you come draft time. The Jets have proven this time and time and time again. Those wins are forgotten in a week and come draft time you miss out on far better player in every round. These meaningless wins never make a culture difference at all. Agreed. BTW, what culture is that that you might be referring to? I see no evidence of any sort of culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 35 minutes ago, pajet said: Ironically from the coach who in the biggest moments played not to lose Hello! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 50 minutes ago, JetPotato said: No team in the history of the NFL has needed a meaningless December victory in a previous season to have any impact on the next season. It's complete nonsense. These are exhibition games now. Each meaningful game is its own animal. You don't suddenly execute in October in a way you wouldn't have because you won a nothing game last January. That’s all the Jets do well lol. Remember they celebrated like they won the Super Bowl beating a top team like the rams for first win of year in 2020. Celebrating losing first pick and Trevor Lawrence, and inheriting Zach fing Wilson. That would have been nice W to give back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said: That’s all the Jets do well lol. Remember they celebrated like they won the Super Bowl beating a top team like the rams for first win of year in 2020. Celebrating losing first pick and Trevor Lawrence, and inheriting Zach fing Wilson. That would have been nice W to give back. They celebrated like that vs washington too. It’s all they ever have, irrelevant wins after they’ve been eliminated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurntDice Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 11 hours ago, Ulrich said: I along with many have wanted the Jets to lose this & every season after they were eliminated from playoff contention. To get the highest draft pick possible. Look how far that’s gotten us. It’s great programs that win. Not where you draft. Good/great programs like the Chiefs, Ravens, Niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, et al drafted at the end of the first round annually for many years when they’ve been good. Yet they just kept winning. Because their great programs. Picking high in the draft is fool’s gold. Unless it’s for a legit franchise QB. The only time we should be rooting for the Jets to lose is if we’re convinced the current regime is incompetent. This regime seems to check that box. So yes I don’t mind if the Jets lose Sunday because JD & Saleh’s results have been awful and the hotter their seats the better. They either rise to the occasion next season or get gone asap. This endless cycle of rooting to lose for a high draft pick is a loser’s game. Instead we can hope the Jets to win Sunday because a light finally went on in this regime’s dim bulb. Otherwise we’ll be back in the exact same place next year. I’m sure the 9ers really regret losing and picking Nick Bosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 11 hours ago, Ulrich said: I along with many have wanted the Jets to lose this & every season after they were eliminated from playoff contention. To get the highest draft pick possible. Look how far that’s gotten us. It’s great programs that win. Not where you draft. Good/great programs like the Chiefs, Ravens, Niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, et al drafted at the end of the first round annually for many years when they’ve been good. Yet they just kept winning. Because their great programs. Picking high in the draft is fool’s gold. Unless it’s for a legit franchise QB. The only time we should be rooting for the Jets to lose is if we’re convinced the current regime is incompetent. This regime seems to check that box. So yes I don’t mind if the Jets lose Sunday because JD & Saleh’s results have been awful and the hotter their seats the better. They either rise to the occasion next season or get gone asap. This endless cycle of rooting to lose for a high draft pick is a loser’s game. Instead we can hope the Jets to win Sunday because a light finally went on in this regime’s dim bulb. Otherwise we’ll be back in the exact same place next year. Obviously true. But we need a QB. Rodgers does not really count. We should be drafting at least 1 QB a year until we find the guy and need to completely overhaul how we handle developing a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 If the Jets had just let the F'ing Commanders back and win the game and then properly lose out the season, they'd be drafting Marvin Harrison Jr. instead of, insert - random T prospect that comes out every year, in every round. Or if you were insane, you could take one of the QB's. Now, they cant and if they beat the Pats, they put themselves out of contention for every HOF caliber player and will be sitting in no mans land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Harris Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Winning programs have QB's. That's the common thread. Organizations are very important but without a QB you're dead in the water. Top 10 picks greatly increase your odds of getting impact players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, jamesr said: Mike Tomlin has now had 17 consecutive non-losing seasons as a coach. Have the Jets even had 17 in their entire history? But then I guess we'd want Tomlin fired too. Steelers fans complain about him all the time. This place would be in full riot gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Steelers fans complain about him all the time. This place would be in full riot gear. Even a really good coach will struggle to turn a mediocre QB into a superb one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, JetPotato said: No team in the history of the NFL has needed a meaningless December victory in a previous season to have any impact on the next season. It's complete nonsense. These are exhibition games now. Each meaningful game is its own animal. You don't suddenly execute in October in a way you wouldn't have because you won a nothing game last January. I know this may not be the greatest example, but take Detroit last year. 1-4 at their bye week, dropped to 1-6 after two more losses. Could have decided to tank from there on in - secure that really high draft pick etc etc. They didn't and they went on to win seven of their next nine. But ahead of the last game - a divisional match up vs. the Packers, who still had playoff hopes of their own - they were already out of post-season contention. What do you reckon would have happened to that team if Campbell played to lose in that last game, to improve their draft position? How would the locker room have responded? Instead they went out and won a "meaningless" December victory ... and just won their division for the first time in 30 years this year. Would the players still have played every bit as hard if Campbell had thrown in the towel in that last game and let the Packers get to the playoffs? I seriously doubt it. If you ask your players to give it their all every day in training camp, and to go above and beyond every week, and then pull the rug from under them - that is how you lose a locker room and create a losing culture. And lose your job shortly afterwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The idea that better draft picks don't win games but better programs do isn't totally unreasonable. Though the Jets have dropped out of higher draft picks and missed out on some very good players and that could certainly happen again this year. But the Jets are established at this point as a losing program. So then what's the goal to fix that? Fire everyone? Force the owner to sell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 minute ago, jamesr said: I know this may not be the greatest example, but take Detroit last year. 1-4 at their bye week, dropped to 1-6 after two more losses. Could have decided to tank from there on in - secure that really high draft pick etc etc. They didn't and they went on to win seven of their next nine. But ahead of the last game - a divisional match up vs. the Packers, who still had playoff hopes of their own - they were already out of post-season contention. What do you reckon would have happened to that team if Campbell played to lose in that last game, to improve their draft position? How would the locker room have responded? Instead they went out and won a "meaningless" December victory ... and just won their division for the first time in 30 years this year. Would the players still have played every bit as hard if Campbell had thrown in the towel in that last game and let the Packers get to the playoffs? I seriously doubt it. If you ask your players to give it their all every day in training camp, and to go above and beyond every week, and then pull the rug from under them - that is how you lose a locker room and create a losing culture. And lose your job shortly afterwards. Just plain silly. Detroit would have won the division this year regardless of what happened in their last game of 2022. There is zero causation. Zero. They won their games one at a time. The outcome of a game in a prior season meant absolutely nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 It's all relative. The only time it truly benefits you to lose every game is when it could land you a franchise QB. Otherwise, building some kind, any kind of competitive culture is better than stacking losses. Candidly this is a zombie regime destined for failure. I think we'll probably land a franchise LT picking in the top ten regardless. Not gonna lose sleep about it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I tend to agree with the overall narrative in here. Football is a sport where coaching and player development runs supreme. The fan in me wants the higher draft pick. I get excited by the possibilities. But I also think big picture a winning culture is more important than draft picks. Teams that have a winning culture are usually good at identifying and developing talent regardless of their draft position. With that said, I don't think this week matters. I'm rooting for the Jets to lose but will feel indifferent when its all said and done. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just plain silly. Detroit would have won the division this year regardless of what happened in their last game of 2022. There is zero causation. Zero. They won their games one at a time. The outcome of a game in a prior season meant absolutely nothing.So who are all these smart teams who are following the "tanking" strategy?Arizona - beat Philly this weekend. Silly them.Chicago - won their game this weekend. Silly them.Washington - very nearly beat us. Silly them. Shouldn't have tried in the second half.Giants - tried like fury to beat LA this weekend. Silly them.Patriots - fought like hell to beat Buffalo. Silly them.Broncos - meaningless win against Chargers. Silly them.Where are all the smart teams? The ones who understand that draft picks are the most important thing at this time of year? Or previous years?Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 13 hours ago, Ulrich said: I along with many have wanted the Jets to lose this & every season after they were eliminated from playoff contention. To get the highest draft pick possible. Look how far that’s gotten us. It’s great programs that win. Not where you draft. Good/great programs like the Chiefs, Ravens, Niners, Packers, Pats, Steelers, et al drafted at the end of the first round annually for many years when they’ve been good. Yet they just kept winning. Because their great programs. Picking high in the draft is fool’s gold. Unless it’s for a legit franchise QB. The only time we should be rooting for the Jets to lose is if we’re convinced the current regime is incompetent. This regime seems to check that box. So yes I don’t mind if the Jets lose Sunday because JD & Saleh’s results have been awful and the hotter their seats the better. They either rise to the occasion next season or get gone asap. This endless cycle of rooting to lose for a high draft pick is a loser’s game. Instead we can hope the Jets to win Sunday because a light finally went on in this regime’s dim bulb. Otherwise we’ll be back in the exact same place next year. The obsession with draft picks and position when not even drafting a qb is just weird 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 24 minutes ago, jamesr said: So who are all these smart teams who are following the "tanking" strategy? Arizona - beat Philly this weekend. Silly them. Chicago - won their game this weekend. Silly them. Washington - very nearly beat us. Silly them. Shouldn't have tried in the second half. Giants - tried like fury to beat LA this weekend. Silly them. Patriots - fought like hell to beat Buffalo. Silly them. Broncos - meaningless win against Chargers. Silly them. Where are all the smart teams? The ones who understand that draft picks are the most important thing at this time of year? Or previous years? Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk The smart teams with real owners and management aren't eliminated from the playoffs in November amd December every year. They don't have these conversations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Rico Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Along with doing a lottery for draft position, implement a schedule each year, where all the teams who won their division have to play each other twice, and all the teams who lost their division get to play each other twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The smart teams with real owners and management aren't eliminated from the playoffs in November amd December every year. They don't have these conversations. So ... tanking only exists in the minds of the fan base?Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 29 minutes ago, Ron Rico said: Along with doing a lottery for draft position, implement a schedule each year, where all the teams who won their division have to play each other twice, and all the teams who lost their division get to play each other twice. Participation Trophies next ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, football guy said: I tend to agree with the overall narrative in here. Football is a sport where coaching and player development runs supreme. The fan in me wants the higher draft pick. I get excited by the possibilities. But I also think big picture a winning culture is more important than draft picks. Teams that have a winning culture are usually good at identifying and developing talent regardless of their draft position. With that said, I don't think this week matters. I'm rooting for the Jets to lose but will feel indifferent when it’s all said and done. What would it take for you to reveal your identity? I enjoy your insights / comments here, and I’m not sure what you have to lose? Unless you are afraid some overzealous posters (like the guy who hid in the bushes at 1JD when Saleh was being interviewed) here might find out where you live and stalk / harass you or something? 😂😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: What would it take for you to reveal your identity? I enjoy your insights / comments here, and I’m not sure what you have to lose? Unless you are afraid some overzealous posters (like the guy who hid in the bushes at 1JD when Saleh was being interviewed) here might find out where you live and stalk / harass you or something? 😂😬 I've never shied away from revealing it. I believe I have before (my name is Michael btw). I do not work in football or sports writing lol. I considered joining the agent community way back when I was in law school, but ultimately chose real estate development consulting for my career path. Now I run my family business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just plain silly. Detroit would have won the division this year regardless of what happened in their last game of 2022. There is zero causation. Zero. They won their games one at a time. The outcome of a game in a prior season meant absolutely nothing.My point here was - how would the players react to Campbell bending over and taking one from a hated rival, in order to influence their draft position? Would they all have come back this year as fired up and as motivated to win, putting their bodies on the line for a guy who called their last outing "meaningless"?I reckon that would have had quite a negative impact. You lose the respect of your core players, you lose the team. Then you lose the games. And your job.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I tend to agree with the overall narrative in here. Football is a sport where coaching and player development runs supreme. The fan in me wants the higher draft pick. I get excited by the possibilities. But I also think big picture a winning culture is more important than draft picks. Teams that have a winning culture are usually good at identifying and developing talent regardless of their draft position. With that said, I don't think this week matters. I'm rooting for the Jets to lose but will feel indifferent when its all said and done. I'm mostly with you ... I will root for them to win, but will likely feel indifferent if they lose. Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 12 minutes ago, jamesr said: I'm mostly with you ... I will root for them to win, but will likely feel indifferent if they lose. Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk What it comes down to me is less about our draft positioning and more to do with NE. I do not want to gift them the QB prospect of their choosing. Otherwise I would root for us lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 What it comes down to me is less about our draft positioning and more to do with NE. I do not want to gift them the QB prospect of their choosing. Otherwise I would root for us lol This is why I hope BB comes back for another year. He's far more likely to 'outsmart' everyone by trading down multiple times. Patsies need so much more than a QB, and BB likely doesn't want to go through the growing pains associated with a rookie QB.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 5 hours ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said: You realize the Jets have had the same team dietician, on their payroll, for the last 6 years right? Why did fatso hire his own then? Seems odd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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