State income tax a stated factor in Shaq Barrett picking Mia over NYJ

[southparkcpa]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Florida teams all stink and free agents generally avoid playing there except for end-of-life losers like Shaq Barrett. Ditto the Texas teams. Who’s the big free agent prizes for the Texans and/or the Cowboys this year? Any athlete deciding where to go based on state income tax needs a better accountant.

You forgot to mention that they avoid NYJ because the culture.  It is well known in the league that the Jets org is run like a candy store.   

[PFSIKH]

6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This again…..I don’t think People understand how taxes work. Or how being in the New York media market makes you more money in ads and exposure then some sh*tty Florida town….

Mods can we stop this narrative that borders on politics 

That was true like last century, but it is no longer true.

Patrick Mahomes is doing well in endorsements from KC.   An athlete does not need NY as much as a NY company needs an athlete regardless of where they play.

[Rich Thornburgh]

23 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

You forgot to mention that they avoid NYJ because the culture.  It is well known in the league that the Jets org is run like a candy store.   

The owner is a dimwit who meddles in football ops - basically a way worse version of Jerry Jones without Super Bowl trophies.

 

And can’t we just admit New Jersey sucks?  It really is the most unpleasant state in the entire country to live in.  It’s expensive regardless of taxes, the people are unpleasant, the traffic is insane, it’s overcrowded,  bad weather and I’m saying this as a native New Jerseyan who has lived in other parts of the country and seen how much better the quality of life is.

[TuscanyTile2]

20 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

That was true like last century, but it is no longer true.

Patrick Mahomes is doing well in endorsements from KC.   An athlete does not need NY as much as a NY company needs an athlete regardless of where they play.

Agreed.  We live in the internet era now.  Baker Mayfield can be famous.

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I guess it could become an issue if high-tax teams lose significant players because of those taxes, but when teams from the Northeast and California are consistently appearing in and winning Super Bowls while teams from Florida and Texas are, well, not, then what’s the motivation? Because the Dolphins gave 31 year old Shaq Barrett and his 7 sacks over the past two seasons $9 million dollars? 

How come the lakers, 49ers, warriors, Celtics, pats keep appearing in championships?

[Maynard13]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We always suspected it, but here's more confirmation that these guys are well aware they make (keep) 10% less, on all their bonus and home game checks, if signing with the Jets over a no state tax team like Miami.

Years ago we used to be able to get past that with NYC being such a draw: night life and media hub and higher endorsements made up for a lot of that. Now the city has become a disgusting s***hole again like when I was a kid, and with there no longer being a need to be in a high population state or city to get publicity for big endorsements & such, what is left? A nice practice facility (yay) that's still over an hour drive to/from the city that's supposed to be a draw (unless you're driving at 6am on a weekend when there is no NYC draw anyway); crazy high prices for homes and property taxes; our awful + cold weather while they're in the area for most of the season (for many/most, nowhere near where they live or want to live in the off-season); and the final kick in the balls of a financial penalty where 10% of your bonus and home checks pay goes to the state. If there isn't the allure of playing with a proven winner here - which there isn't - it's really not an even. Every team having an even cap ceiling is itself a built-in uneven system, unintended as that may be. 

Mia, Tampa, Jax, Ten, Dal, Hou, Sea, LV get to discount their offers by millions. Especially on short (especially 1 year short) contracts where they can offer the bulk of the compensation paid out as signing & roster bonus at a 0% state tax rate. Having to outbid one player after another by ~10% and it cumulatively adds up to losing the ability to pay (or at least upgrade the quality of) an extra good/great veteran starter or two.

The league can't even-out all the states' tax rates, and can't even out weather and locations of course, but I'm thinking maybe they could fudge it so a base salary cap limit applies to teams in no tax states, and the rest get an increased cap ceiling bump by the amount of the respective states' marginal tax rates. If Miami gets a $255MM ceiling, the Jets get a $282MM ceiling. Or even if it's by just half that amount it would be a good start to leveling things. Otherwise even aside from weather/area draws, with the amounts the in-demand FAs make now this is now such a blatant bidding disadvantage for totally non-football reasons. 

And I don't even care about Shaq Barrett.

If Miami gets a $255MM ceiling, the Jets get a $282MM ceiling.

You should call Goddell on this. You'd probably be put on hold though.   

[RutgersJetFan]

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

[Maynard13]

8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Shut up

Break him like a pretzel.  

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

And can’t we just admit New Jersey sucks?  It really is the most unpleasant state in the entire country to live in.  It’s expensive regardless of taxes, the people are unpleasant, the traffic is insane, it’s overcrowded,  bad weather and I’m saying this as a native New Jerseyan who has lived in other parts of the country and seen how much better the quality of life is.

Have you ever considered that it's you

[Trotter]

1 hour ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

The owner is a dimwit who meddles in football ops - basically a way worse version of Jerry Jones without Super Bowl trophies.

 

And can’t we just admit New Jersey sucks?  It really is the most unpleasant state in the entire country to live in.  It’s expensive regardless of taxes, the people are unpleasant, the traffic is insane, it’s overcrowded,  bad weather and I’m saying this as a native New Jerseyan who has lived in other parts of the country and seen how much better the quality of life is.

Nj has the Snooki shop so there is that

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You sure this post was meant for me?

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

10 hours ago, Robert said:

 

and we specifically know WHY our states suck

but we don’t have the smartest voters  to fix the problems

Please don’t rub it in

Same can be said of California and Illinois. Born and raised in California myself, and have some family in the Chicago area whom I commiserate with during tax season.

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

54 minutes ago, Trotter said:

Nj has the Snooki shop so there is that

 

2 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

 

 

And can’t we just admit New Jersey sucks?  It really is the most unpleasant state in the entire country to live in.  It’s expensive regardless of taxes, the people are unpleasant, the traffic is insane, it’s overcrowded,  bad weather and I’m saying this as a native New Jerseyan who has lived in other parts of the country and seen how much better the quality of life is.

George Carlin himself, asked the same question. 

 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, JetsfaninNorthHollywood said:

Same can be said of California and Illinois. Born and raised in California myself, and have some family in the Chicago area whom I commiserate with during tax season.

The public schools are the same in every district in America. 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

The owner is a dimwit who meddles in football ops - basically a way worse version of Jerry Jones without Super Bowl trophies.

 

And can’t we just admit New Jersey sucks?  It really is the most unpleasant state in the entire country to live in.  It’s expensive regardless of taxes, the people are unpleasant, the traffic is insane, it’s overcrowded,  bad weather and I’m saying this as a native New Jerseyan who has lived in other parts of the country and seen how much better the quality of life is.

it also smells like hot garbage. 

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

it also smells like hot garbage. 

I always thought Secaucus smelt rather nice in comparison, to say Newark, Bayonne, or even lovely Perth Amboy. Never made it to Camden so cannot comment on that or Trenton for that matter.

[Dcat]

12 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We always suspected it, but here's more confirmation that these guys are well aware they make (keep) 10% less, on all their bonus and home game checks, if signing with the Jets over a no state tax team like Miami.

Years ago we used to be able to get past that with NYC being such a draw: night life and media hub and higher endorsements made up for a lot of that. Now the city has become a disgusting s***hole again like when I was a kid, and with there no longer being a need to be in a high population state or city to get publicity for big endorsements & such, what is left? A nice practice facility (yay) that's still over an hour drive to/from the city that's supposed to be a draw (unless you're driving at 6am on a weekend when there is no NYC draw anyway); crazy high prices for homes and property taxes; our awful + cold weather while they're in the area for most of the season (for many/most, nowhere near where they live or want to live in the off-season); and the final kick in the balls of a financial penalty where 10% of your bonus and home checks pay goes to the state. If there isn't the allure of playing with a proven winner here - which there isn't - it's really not an even. Every team having an even cap ceiling is itself a built-in uneven system, unintended as that may be. 

Mia, Tampa, Jax, Ten, Dal, Hou, Sea, LV get to discount their offers by millions. Especially on short (especially 1 year short) contracts where they can offer the bulk of the compensation paid out as signing & roster bonus at a 0% state tax rate. Having to outbid one player after another by ~10% and it cumulatively adds up to losing the ability to pay (or at least upgrade the quality of) an extra good/great veteran starter or two.

The league can't even-out all the states' tax rates, and can't even out weather and locations of course, but I'm thinking maybe they could fudge it so a base salary cap limit applies to teams in no tax states, and the rest get an increased cap ceiling bump by the amount of the respective states' marginal tax rates. If Miami gets a $255MM ceiling, the Jets get a $282MM ceiling. Or even if it's by just half that amount it would be a good start to leveling things. Otherwise even aside from weather/area draws, with the amounts the in-demand FAs make now this is now such a blatant bidding disadvantage for totally non-football reasons. 

And I don't even care about Shaq Barrett.

San Francisco is more of a sh*thole over the past 5 years and California taxes are way higher than NJ taxes. Yet players want to go there.

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, JetsfaninNorthHollywood said:

 

George Carlin himself, asked the same question. 

 

That was Da Man. Got thrown out of my HS Cardinal Hayes for smokin in the boys room LOL

[jetsons]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

it also smells like hot garbage. 

The jersey swamp... YES, It Does. 

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

The public schools are the same in every district in America. 

My daughter is getting priced out of Eastern MA and has to move by July. She's looking for a decent priced apartment with a 'good public' school district for her sons 9 and 12.  She lives in Quincy and they have an excellent public school rating. Elsewhere its terrible and damn near impossible to find a good district without paying exhorbatant rents.   I told her to look at Raleigh area which I myself am strongly considering to move to in August.  Better options there for her but its complicated: child care, network, job market.  I myself believe I would be fine there.  For her, the kids definately throw a wrench into the equation. I'm still pondering whether to move to Rhode Island, where I can make a better living, or head south to Raleigh.  This winter has been COLD, DAMP, WINDY and just miserable here in NE MA.  How I ended up here is beyond me but I am out of here in August.   It's ridiculously expensive and the people here SUCK.  

[Maynard13]

12 hours ago, mfmartin said:

 

Yes, many of the players live in Morristown, etc. They still have access to the biggest city in the world that has a ton of nightlife.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Morristown is really nice. But who can afford that place? You'd have to be a rich athlete. Ohhh wait they are .  

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, Dcat said:

San Francisco is more of a sh*thole over the past 5 years and California taxes are way higher than NJ taxes. Yet players want to go there.

Do they, though? Go find the list of good to great young UFAs in their 20s signing with the 49ers without the team overbidding. It's a pretty comparatively short list, and that's with a team that's been a proven winner, recently and with a storied history.

Extensions can be accomplished by any team, as few players actually want (in advance) to reach free agency unless they feel underappreciated or just want to gamble on themselves. With or without high taxes it's in a player's interest to sign an extension early in a sport where careers (or max contract amounts) can change in one play, making the risk far higher than a maximum delta in state tax disparities.

UFAs who aren't tagged? SF signs very few good/great young FAs, tbh. Theose guys sign elsewhere. The team remains competitive because of their draft and trade moves.

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

If Miami gets a $255MM ceiling, the Jets get a $282MM ceiling.

You should call Goddell on this. You'd probably be put on hold though.   

Lol! Doubt it's Goodell who's among those who really care; it's not his money, and it's not his individual team put at an advantage or disadvantage compared to today.

I was only suggesting it'd be a fairer system; not that it's got a chance of happening.

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, mfmartin said:

 

They still have easy access to the city.

And why doesn’t it hold the appeal it used to?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

"Easy" is relative and subjective. It's 2-3 hours roundtrip, just for a night out. Now and then, ok. Every single time to go out? That gets old fast.

While not the only city that is, it's a cold dump, and they don't live in or typically just outside the city anyway. Beyond that, over the years more cities have gotten built up plenty - cleaner and newer than NYC - and with the way people communicate in this age, being in NYC is hardly requisite for staying in the loop, getting publicity for endorsements, star treatment, fast delivery and access to anything they want, and more.

[UntouchableCrew]

The thing that annoys me the most about these goofy politics adjacent arguments is when people pretend the weather in Florida is good. 95 degrees with 100% humidity isn’t good weather it’s a ******* nightmare.

[UntouchableCrew]

13 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

That was true like last century, but it is no longer true.

Patrick Mahomes is doing well in endorsements from KC.   An athlete does not need NY as much as a NY company needs an athlete regardless of where they play.

I think it’s still very true in other sports. NFL is probably the exception.

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The thing that annoys me the most about these goofy politics adjacent arguments is when people pretend the weather in Florida is good. 95 degrees with 100% humidity isn’t good weather it’s a ******* nightmare.

😂😂 This thread is a bunch of old, middle-income white guys making broad generalizations about where young, multimillionaire athletes want to live. Miami? New York! LA? Meanwhile, every offseason, free agents are running off to sign with Minnesota, Buffalo, Carolina, etc. When you’re that wealthy, you live in your own insular ecosystem and can buy all the nightlife and tax evasion maneuvers you’ll ever need, anywhere you go. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

10 hours ago, Dcat said:

San Francisco is more of a sh*thole over the past 5 years and California taxes are way higher than NJ taxes. Yet players want to go there.

I was in San Francisco a few years ago.

It was like the zombie apocalypse happened.  Mindless hordes of bums literally sh*tting in the streets.  

[Dcat]

58 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Do they, though? Go find the list of good to great young UFAs in their 20s signing with the 49ers without the team overbidding. It's a pretty comparatively short list, and that's with a team that's been a proven winner, recently and with a storied history.

Extensions can be accomplished by any team, as few players actually want (in advance) to reach free agency unless they feel underappreciated or just want to gamble on themselves. With or without high taxes it's in a player's interest to sign an extension early in a sport where careers (or max contract amounts) can change in one play, making the risk far higher than a maximum delta in state tax disparities.

UFAs who aren't tagged? SF signs very few good/great young FAs, tbh. These guys sign elsewhere. The team remains competitive because of their draft and trade moves.

If state taxes matter that much to someone making NFL star money, then what can I say, other than go for it.  And, no matter what state/team they play for, they pay state taxes in any state in which they have set foot to play a game.  For example, Miami Dolphins pay NJ income tax on 1/16 of their salary/bonus because 1/16th of the games they play are here.  Add up those away games in states like Mass, Ct, NY, NJ, Cal, etc  and there is a lot more state tax a Dolphins player has to pay than everyone thinks. 

 

[JetPotato]

22 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  “Want to live in Jersey or Miami?” Is a valid question for a FA.  It’s not like we see too many big FA’s go to “cities” like Buffalo, Green Bay or even Pittsburgh unless the opportunity to win overcomes another location’s perks.  

Everyone be talking about the womens in Miami, but a lot of these guys are big time chubby chasers, so places like Buffalo are actually like their Miami. We have no shot, really. 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, KINGDIRK said:

I have four 20 something year olds reporting to me at work in midtown. They are young, certainly not rich and they absolutely love living in NYC. I’m sure rich athletes could do the same.   

The players work and live in NJ, not midtown.

Also of those you're describing, further consider:

Statistically, most or all of them grew up (and have family in) in the metro or tristate area vs. being from all over the country. Their established friends live here, too, and while they're still single may also live in the city near them. Like extended college years, except they live and work in the city instead of classes wherever they went to school.

Socially, high dollar pro athletes have a fraternity of also-rich teammates even if they're in (what we would consider) the middle of nowhere to a new area. Your employees wouldn't have that so statistically they stay near where they are from (though less than in the past). If one of those four suddenly moved to Seattle, Dallas, Nashville, Miami, etc. they'd have none of their family/friends with them, let alone 50+ guys around their age with whom they share tons in common, including plenty of money to spend. 

Of course I don't know you or these four individuals, but typically the pay is higher in the city, and for however-many hundreds of thousands (or millions) of city residents and commuters who choose to work there over other opportunities, that's the trade-off. Plenty or most don't have employers offering them the same money to do that job in the Tampa suburbs. So it's the opposite: they get paid more, not the same or less, to be there.

There's plenty more they may not (and surely don't) have in common with the average NFL FA chasing the one lifetime opportunity to get the most millions he can get in a career that's likely to last maybe 4-7 more years if he's lucky.

Just saying it's far from an apples to apples comparison.

I lived in the city for years myself when I was in my 20s as well. More of my college friends lived there than anywhere else; I grew up just outside the city; my parents and lots of extended family was within an hour; I made more for being there; and there's a high probability the same would be said for you and/or most or all of the employees you're describing... there may be some FAs in that same boat, who are at from the general area (there are lots of people from up here, and that may trump the taxes for them, just like other considerations), but most aren't, and for plenty it's a consideration that represents an unequal ability to for some teams to pay as many players if they have to overbid t land them.

 

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I was in San Francisco a few years ago.

It was like the zombie apocalypse happened.  Mindless hordes of bums literally sh*tting in the streets.  

SF has been ruined.

[TuscanyTile2]

36 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The thing that annoys me the most about these goofy politics adjacent arguments is when people pretend the weather in Florida is good. 95 degrees with 100% humidity isn’t good weather it’s a ******* nightmare.

Agreed.  I hate the humidity over there.  But I think it's probably preferable to freezing your arse off all winter in NY.  

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I was in San Francisco a few years ago.

It was like the zombie apocalypse happened.  Mindless hordes of bums literally sh*tting in the streets.  

Was that pre-Covid?  It's probably even far worse now.

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, Dcat said:

If state taxes matter that much to someone making NFL star money, then what can I say, other than go for it.  And, no matter what state/team they play for, they pay state taxes in any state in which they have set foot to play a game.  For example, Miami Dolphins pay NJ income tax on 1/16 of their salary/bonus because 1/16th of the games they play are here.  Add up those away games in states like Mass, Ct, NY, NJ, Cal, etc  and there is a lot more state tax a Dolphins player has to pay than everyone thinks. 

 

While I'm sympathetic to that take on a personal level (eff them if it's only about every last dollar), as a fan of a team that has to combat this, I'm also recognizing the additional challenge to their own collective coach/FO stupidity.

Also you're understating the disparity. Players only pay income tax on bonus checks in their teams' states (though apparently there are challenges coming, but nothing yet).

Only game checks are split like that. So Tyreek Hill, for example, does not pay income tax on 1/16 (now 1/17) of his signing bonus checks to NJ. Just his game checks, which have been kept to a bare minimum. He's been paid $53MM over the first two years of his Miami contract, and more than $50MM of it carried no state taxes. Only about $2MM has been base salary, and half of that is taxed at FL's 0% as well, meaning about only $1MM of his $53MM has been subject to other states' income taxes. Further, if you wanted to get more detailed, it wouldn't even be at the marginal rate in states (like NJ) with a progressive tax system because 1/17 of that year's $1.1MM - some $65K - would put him in a 5.53% tax bracket. It's only based on how much he made playing in NJ, not how much he made here plus everywhere else.